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BIGGIRL2082010's Photo BIGGIRL2082010 Posts: 10,511
5/15/10 8:53 P

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I go up and down with this one. Some days I'm happy to leave a rich, TASTY dessert on my plate because a couple of bites satisfied my desire for the flavour. And some days I eat every bite of a pretty-bland entree because I'm still in "clean your plate" mode.

Not sure when I'll find balance ... maybe, like Martha suggests, I should add more to the plate after cleaning it, just so I can "leave some behind". :)

Cheers,
Maya


Maya

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MOMMYDOC3's Photo MOMMYDOC3 Posts: 299
5/14/10 10:13 P

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Look at this smart thread too. And I am almost starting to fall asleep and I haven't even done the "productive" things I wanted to do.

This is exactly where I am in the book and struggling. I wonder if any of you are getting better at leaving food on your plates?

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KERRIFAIR's Photo KERRIFAIR SparkPoints: (0)
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5/14/10 6:29 A

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Growing up, I always had to clean my plate.. I suspect it was because my grandparents grew up during the depression so that carried to my parents. I have a very hard time not eating everything on my plate- if I like it, I eat it till it is gone. I now have the "eat my daughter's leftovers" syndrome. If I don't eat what is left on her plate, the dog will. I have taken the drastic step to dump what is left into the trash and dump coffee grounds or detergent on it.

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_VALEO_'s Photo _VALEO_ SparkPoints: (94,400)
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5/7/10 6:56 A

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I'm currently reading Michael Pollan's books, and it is one of his rules. I'm a bit puzzled by it, I must say.

I read all the comments below: by leaving food on the plate, do you really throw the food away in your garbage can or do you put it in a Tupperware box for another meal?

I also read 'French women don't get fat'
Oh my, don't get me started on this book... I should write a blog about it.



Edited by: _VALEO_ at: 5/7/2010 (06:56)
Valerie

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra



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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/8/09 2:06 P

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We ALL struggle to copy the healthy behaviors of KOOPER the parrot, who knows when he's had enough and leaves the rest on SUSAN'S plate.
emoticon emoticon emoticon
It looks like KOOPER has no trouble maintainting his desired weight. It's nice that he sits on SUSAN'S shoulder and says "I love you", instead of the parrot an SP article (I'll try to find the link) uses as a metaphor for "negative self-talk" (it sits on the shoulder yelling insults).

Go, KOOPER!

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
12/8/09 1:58 P

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This makes me think maybe some of us are the Labrador retrievers of humans. Jazzie licks her bowl clean...then checks Hallie's to make sure every morsal is gone...then 2-3 times she'll go over to lick it again just to make sure it's gone.

At least we're not licking other people's plates, right?

Baby steps...

Edited by: JAZZIEGIRL05 at: 12/8/2009 (13:59)
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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SALEE100's Photo SALEE100 SparkPoints: (0)
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12/8/09 1:36 P

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Thanks Barbara, but I don't think it counts because he eats while I'm eating. Once I'm done he's done and he usually loses interest before I do.

Btw, he now says "I love you" and the valley girl version of "whatever".

Anyway, this all has me thinking about leaving food everytime I eat. So far, I've only had the strength not to eat Kooper's walnuts (which is actually people food). Yesterday when we went out to eat and everybody had key lime pie, I scraped every bit off my plate. My bf was looking at me and I said "what?". I smiled and then remembered about not eating it all. When I was a kid I used to lick the plate, I'm good now and don't do that in public! Do you see what a challenge it's going to be for me to leave food on my plate? LOL!

~ Susan

Even if our efforts of attention seem for years to be producing no results, one day a light in the exact proportion to them will flood the soul.
~Simone Weal


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DALAI_LALA's Photo DALAI_LALA Posts: 2,716
12/8/09 9:21 A

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Parrot = Pirate Chicken

Awesome!

"Being defeated is often temporary, giving up makes it permanent." - Marilyn vos Savant

"We expect these things to change by waking up, and suddenly there they are." - Toad


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/8/09 12:42 A

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I love you.
emoticon emoticon

BTW, I think you're in the clear, if the parrot eats what's left on your plate, SUSAN. What a helpful pet!
emoticon emoticon
the pirate and chicken are the closest I could come to emoticons that represent "parrot"

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
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~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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12/7/09 5:17 P

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Yes, the sign language of 'I love you', as well... Boo is hawt.

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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SALEE100's Photo SALEE100 SparkPoints: (0)
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12/4/09 9:43 P

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Does it count as leaving food if I let my parrot eat it? LOL!

~ Susan

Even if our efforts of attention seem for years to be producing no results, one day a light in the exact proportion to them will flood the soul.
~Simone Weal


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DANCINGPENGUIN's Photo DANCINGPENGUIN SparkPoints: (0)
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12/4/09 9:09 P

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I thought it was part of the I Love You sign. We use that a lot in our house. My little one has got it down with his index and thumb but not his pinkie. It's so cute!

Simplify


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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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12/4/09 8:57 P

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Nice crop on the picture, Boo! Looking good.
You were doing the ASL for the letter Y in my book!
Y not?
(ASL- American Sign Language)

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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SWIFTSEATURTLE's Photo SWIFTSEATURTLE Posts: 3,328
12/4/09 7:24 P

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I noticed George and Jerry are hanging by you. emoticon I couldn't remember "Hook'em Horns!"
Mentally I've already left Texas (?) That pitchfork sign looks more like a pitchfork than the actual gang sign does. I googled gang info. to be sure we don't antagonize any rival gangs after we move. I was checking on our shoes (my favorite subject), because I heard about gang identification with certain ones--and the colors--"f'get about it!" they're all taken--even beige.

So, you think at our age it won't matter?

(What shoes, you didn't ask, but - Allan has black and red Nike basketball shoes, and I have air max 95, and TL 2.5 - from a Nike frenzy before my last plantar fasciitis. I saw gangsta's in NY wearing the TL's)

Edited by: SWIFTSEATURTLE at: 12/4/2009 (19:37)
BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/4/09 3:13 P

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I'll work on cropping the photo, but in the meantime, I'll just put up the one of George, Jerry and me. My gang sign is a little messed up and looks more like "hook 'em horns", admittedly, but I haven't been "gangsta'" very long. I'm old, so people think the faulty gang sign is cute.
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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SWIFTSEATURTLE's Photo SWIFTSEATURTLE Posts: 3,328
12/4/09 12:30 P

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Thanks, I didn't know about them. I hadn't noticed Altoids, since I don't like mint much, but it is a good "brake" for me, to halt on the chocolate.

Boo, I love your picture on your new blog - sorry didn't comment there. The one showing your face would be great as a profile pic if you could crop it. I love your blue streak too, but enjoyed seeing your face! Be careful flashing gang signs - here, those signs just mean (Go) UT Longhorns.

BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/4/09 11:17 A

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There are Dark Chocolate Dipped Mints by Altoid that you might like, SWIFTY. They freshen the breath and the chocolate taste lingers.

A serving is two mints (15 cal/srv). I can pop a couple in my mouth and let them melt, satisfying without taking up too much of my food plan for the day. I don't do it a lot because I don't want to get into the habit of mindlessly wiping out the whole box, without even knowing it. It's a nice mini-treat at times, though.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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SWIFTSEATURTLE's Photo SWIFTSEATURTLE Posts: 3,328
12/4/09 9:08 A

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I read that very sentence to Allan last week - the one in all caps in the post below. He is the one that can't "waste" food on the plates at meals. I can leave food on my plate. It's the snacking at other times that's my problem.

Chocolate - yesterday I bought some Dove peppermint things that are white on top and dark on the bottom. The mint keeps me from eating more, but I get the chocolate taste. I bought them because Allan can eat white but not dark. I get Andes mints for the chocolate taste, too, but no health benefits in this kind, I know.

Edited by: SWIFTSEATURTLE at: 12/4/2009 (09:12)
BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/3/09 6:52 P

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That's neat, JANA. Now, you only have to read the underlined parts of your book. What a time saver! Our book club is fun.
emoticon emoticon
I'll throw away a bite of this apple.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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DANCINGPENGUIN's Photo DANCINGPENGUIN SparkPoints: (0)
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12/3/09 6:01 P

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This is like Book Club emoticon emoticon

I keep chocolate in the house, too. Typically very high percentage cacao. The one I had a square of yesterday was 88%, though, and that's a little too stringent for me.

But I do remember saying at some time in the past that as long as I knew there was a Snickers in the freezer, I was okay. I think that's another example of this philosophy.

Simplify


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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
12/3/09 5:57 P

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*Little squares of Godiva DARK chocolate.

Boo, I turned to page 195 of my new used book. That exact sentence is already underlined!!! Did I get your old copy??? emoticon

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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12/3/09 5:31 P

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Dove dark hearts- suave.
Lindt.
& quirky bars I buy at high end coffee shops.


Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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SALEE100's Photo SALEE100 SparkPoints: (0)
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12/3/09 5:18 P

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Dark chocolate is my thing too, though mine is usually in the form of dark m&m's. It helps me control the size of each bite. I measure out 2 tbsp and put it in a baggie to take to work every day that I work. I don't feel deprived, I get to eat anything I want!

Edited by: SALEE100 at: 12/3/2009 (17:18)
~ Susan

Even if our efforts of attention seem for years to be producing no results, one day a light in the exact proportion to them will flood the soul.
~Simone Weal


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/3/09 2:35 P

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Love your post, MARE!
That's exactly where I'm at these days.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/3/09 2:33 P

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Your used copy of the book shows that MANY of us have difficulty with discarding food, JANA.
emoticon emoticon
PENGUIN'S sons are way ahead of us. They don't mind tossing out food when they're satisfied. They have not been trained to clean the plate and have not gone on and off diets, so they can recognize signals their body sends, telling them they're no longer hungry. Great example. Gives me hope.

A favorite college psychology professor used a saying that I really like, "Believing is behaving and behaving is believing." Recognizing that things we know intellectually that we need to do are easier said than done, he said that people can start with either the believing or the behaving, when they want to change behavior. Eventually they flow into one another and how we behave begins to match what we believe to be true.

Example: If we behave like PENGUIN'S little boys, or others with healthy eating habits, and toss those extra bites in the garbage, over time, we can begin to believe that it's OK to discard leftover bites.

On the other hand, if we continue to gobble down every last bite, hungry or not, we're feeding our old belief system that tells us we must clean our plates and eat the food, just because it's there and we must not waste it.

Martha Beck is pretty forceful on this subject. On page 195 of "Four-Day Win" she warns "Your negative reaction to throwing away food is a problem. Let me restate this just in case I haven't made myself clear: THROWING AWAY FOOD WHEN YOU'RE TOO FULL TO EAT IT IS NOT WASTEFUL. IT IS WASTEFUL TO EAT THAT FOOD, THEREBY CAUSING YOURSELF TO BECOME A FAT DEAD PERSON."

The TOTAL CAPS ARE HERS. As yet, I've never been too full to eat more food, at least, if I was, I didn't know it. I'm with YOU, PENGUIN. I want to learn to "know it".

Remember the MONTY PYTHON scene in a restaurant where the overweight person said, "Just one more wafer", ate that one more wafer, and then exploded. I have a weird sense of humor. I found the scene both memorable and hilarious because I have had a tendency to think I could always eat more, no matter how much I had already eaten.
emoticon emoticon emoticon


Edited by: BARBARA_BOO at: 12/3/2009 (14:49)
Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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12/3/09 2:19 P

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It is def ok that each of us is working on different parts of the puzzle. At the same time- it's so good that somebody knows that this is a field of daisies with a windmill and a lady laying in the grass. Hard to know where the peices go with no picture on a box!
For those of us with deprivation, wild child, you can't make me issues- I have found it really important to have lavish abundance around me. I almost always have a large dark chocolate bar, and some really good treats kind of 'there' in my background. I can't do with the 'keep it out of the house' mentality- I have to know that it is safely there for me. I also love to have abundance of healthy food- that I then just KNOW is there. It makes my choices more... hmm, carefree, happy, satisfied, and healthy. When I do restaurants, I have a 'to-go' box delivered with the meal- but I like to just eat half and then put it away, rather than hide 1/2 at the start. The first feels like success, the later feels like I can't be trusted... and so many of these exercises are about finding the way to feel good about ourselves- victorious, and happy, rather than deprived or abandoned by our old friend food.
Ahh- the team that types... and READS. Love this team!

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
12/3/09 11:49 A

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I just got my own new "used" copy of the book. It looks like a brand new hardback. When I thumbed through it the only markings/underlinings were in The Body Whisperer chapter and Trash The Treasure (ch. 23).

emoticon

Looking forward to making my own markings. Thanks again for bringing this book to our attention.


Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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12/3/09 11:24 A

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I absolutely believe this to be true. And it fits with what I watch my young sons do when they're eating. When they are done, they are DONE. Plus the whole thing about deprivation creating the problem makes perfect sense to me.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, believing it is one thing, and being able to counteract the conditioning is another. I'm going to have to do some serious work on this chapter!

Simplify


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/3/09 11:18 A

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I'm glad you brought this up, PENGUIN. I went back and re-read the chapter you referenced and now have a better understanding of where Martha's coming from, with this exercise.

She explains that we are opportunistic eaters like other animals who are triggered to eat by smell, sight, etc. In our case, as humans (with ability to think), she says "Opportunistic eaters, especially those who have experienced some form of deprivation (dieting), experience intense resistance when it comes to letting tasty items go to waste." All of that is on top of the training to "clean those plates".

She wants us to train our brain to get back to that internal balance point we were born with, when we knew how to eat as much as our body needs, to be its healthiest.

I like this statement by her: "To be a thin person INDEFINITELY, you must reframe your whole perception of wasting food...A crucial step in unlocking the patterned responses and cravings that cause you to overeat is learning to discard food when you don't need it."

In general, she's not against saving leftovers for the whole family to eat at other meals. Interesting topic to think about...

Gotta leave for pilates class.
emoticon

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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12/3/09 8:04 A

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I did not do the exercise correctly. Supposed to access the Watcher self and whatnot, and yes, starting with less "charged" foods. Perhaps it was shock.

I think I want to give this one a real go some time soon.

Simplify


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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
12/2/09 11:37 P

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I just spent 7 days on vacation with my daughter (now 23 and living away from home) and I observed her eating habits. She ALWAYS left food on her plate. I'm sure she didn't think about it, but she just ate until she was full. And she ALWAYS put her fork down between bites. I was thinking that I'm sure I used to be that way. More important, I am working on being that way again!

Remember the French Women Don't Get Fat book? She says that too. Order the cheesecake and have one bite. Ouch.



Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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SALEE100's Photo SALEE100 SparkPoints: (0)
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12/2/09 10:47 P

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I like your points Barbara. Before reading your post I was thinking I wouldn't bother trying that technique of leaving food on the plate. Right now I carefully measure or weigh most of my food and eat every bite and log it all and it seems right to me. But maybe some day I could re-train my brain so I don't need to do all that. It almost seems too good to be true.

~ Susan

Even if our efforts of attention seem for years to be producing no results, one day a light in the exact proportion to them will flood the soul.
~Simone Weal


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
12/2/09 10:17 P

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I was a well-fed child, too.
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My mother worked at a place called Dallas Sweet Shop for a couple of years when I was a pre-teen. They made gourmet chocolate treats, and I wondered how she could keep from eating constantly, since there was chocolate all around her all day every day. She told me that the sheer abundance turned her appetite off and that she was there to work, not to eat up her boss's profits, though he allowed employees to eat all they wanted. She said, at first she would have some candy every day. After she got used to it being everywhere,the smell almost made her feel sick and she hardly ever wanted any.

I mention this because it may be a clue to what Martha Beck's "Four-Day Win" experiments on abundance and famine are designed to reveal. Only Martha knows for sure.

Starting with chocolate, instead of salads, as you experiment with not cleaning your plate MAY be a bit ambitious, PENGUIN. From reading the book, I remember her saying you can always start with less appetizing foods, if you want.
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It's true that going back for seconds, just to throw some away, as you point out, LOSTINPAPERWORK, would be useless, if Martha didn't have some devious plan for the experiment to help us change the way we think.

Maybe it's like exercise, when we put on ankle weights and do things to an extreme before we can strengthen new muscles and relax the exaggeration (taking the ankle weights off). The bites of food left on the plate could be just an exaggeration, to gain our attention, I think.

When we have a strong habit of licking our plates clean, as most of us do, it takes something dramatic to gain our attention. Watching that bite or two of chocolate go down the garbage disposal definitely makes us think. And Martha is all about training our brain to be more aware of what we're doing when we eat.

The sacrifice of that bite or two that we throw away (instead of wasting it as fat on our bodies) is only valuable because it brings us into the moment. Stark reality.

Just thinking out loud...to help myself understand what Martha's going for with this one.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

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12/2/09 8:43 P

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Wow, can I sooo relate to your post. When I was growing up, my mom always told us how her parents lived through the Depression and we WERE NOT to waste anything ("waste not, want not" was constantly repeated by my mom). We HAD to "clean our plates." Now that I'm married to my husband, he throws things away with no problem (food, that 1/8 bar of soap left in the shower that I would never DARE to throw away until it was the size of a nickel). I understand the anxiety of not wanting to throw it away. However, why not just eat smaller portions, clean your plate and be done with it? That helps me. I just remember that my stomach is only as big as my fist and I put half of what I normally would on my plate. IF there is anything left, it's not much so I don't feel so bad about tossing it out. I personally don't see why you would HAVE to put more on, so some could be left... so you could get used to throwing it out... It just seems unnecessary to me. Am I missing the point?

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12/2/09 8:17 P

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D@mn you, Martha Beck! How dare you go and challenge something so difficult to imagine changing! You really think I'm going to LEAVE FOOD ON MY PLATE? Are you effin' kidding me? (reference Chapter 23 of The Four-Day Win.)

Yes, I've noticed before that thin people stop when full.
Yes, I've noticed that I clean my plate.

I live in a house with a DH who hates to throw ANYTHING away. Who doesn't like to "waste" food.


My first experiment failed flat. I served myself three chocolates, intending to throw away some of the serving. How? Why would I do that? It's chocolate, for crying out loud. I ate it, I licked the wrapper. I am logging it. (and no, I didn't think they were all that great.)

What really is giving me the willies is this quote: "I suggest you *always* leave food on your plate...go get a refill just so you'll have a little something to throw away. Make cleaning your plate seem odd and irregular." I may have to read that for a week just to comprehend it.

I understand, intellectually, that living with abundance creates a different mindset toward eating, one that counteracts the starvation effects of dieting. I "get" that, on a cerebral level. I have worked with those thoughts before. But I have a heckuva lot more experience with dieting than I do with that mindset, which is probably why I have gained weight after each diet I've quit. Leave food on my plate on a regular basis??

Maybe I should try it with salad.

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