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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,240
4/29/14 9:04 P

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Someone asked a question on another forum, and I looked this up--I THINK it's a pretty accurate explanation of dawn phenomenon and the Somogyi effect , and their differences--though I disagree that the one is "man-made"... some of us produce too much insulin without any help! LOL

Interesting reading, though. What do YOU think? Is there anything here that's helpful?

Kathy emoticon

"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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GLIOWIENRAYNA's Photo GLIOWIENRAYNA Posts: 68
3/19/14 2:06 P

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I was diagnosed last summer, and put on Metformin. After having diarrhea until I was blacking out from dehydration the doctor took me off of it (keep in mind she started me on 3000 mg a day) Took 10 days for the Metformin Dash to stop. Then I went back on VERY slowly. I'm now up to 1500 mg a day, spaced way out.

What I discovered with much trial and error is: I cannot tolerate whole grains, or much animal protein now, and fat simply has me running for the bathroom for hours. I have gone from an animal protein heavy Paleo diet before my diagnosis to an almost vegetarian diet, with an emphasis on as natural and organic as I can get it. I've lost about 30 pounds since last summer (9 pounds in just one week with the horrible side effects) and my A1c was down from 7 to 6.4 -- another thing I have struggled with is high mornings, and thru much trial and error have discovered that one tablespoon of ice cream, coupled with a teaspoon of coconut oil at bedtime and my new 14 day morning average is 81 (down from 112 two weeks ago)....and my A1C is down to 6.2.

I had been contemplating asking the doc if I could increase my metformin to 4 a day, when a 29-year diabetic survivor gave me the spoonful-trick at bedtime and I was stunned how much it helped.

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FOXSTAR10's Photo FOXSTAR10 SparkPoints: (82,148)
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3/15/14 7:23 A

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My sister cannot take the regular metformin. Her doctor put her on an extended release and now she does not have any problems with having to stay home.

Joy S

Central Time Zone


"If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place. "

~ Nora Roberts ~

"Without hard work, nothing grows but weeds."

~ Gordon B. Hinckley


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/14/14 6:24 P

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I like that idea. Hope I can manage to eat the apples. That would be good for the carbs especially if the rest I eat is the protein and fat it would keep them fairly low.

I did double check on my appointment and she still wants me there Tuesday even though it is just a month and a half.



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CROYLE55 Posts: 1,456
3/14/14 5:19 P

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I was having the dawn effect back. In the fall. No matter what I did have a snack/did not have a snack. B's was running 130-155. In Nov arc was 6.3. Was down to 7 units of lantus. The middle of December I started eating a small apple after each meal. Two hours later bs was. 111. Fasting bs were running 95-110. In Jan I seen an endo. He took me off insulin. He also told me if I did OT want to eat every 4-5 hours I did not half to. I could skip a meal. I was shocked. I told him that goes against theADA and diabetes educators and dieticians. I told him a out eating an apple after each meal. He said it's working keep doing it. A few days later I ended up in the hospital. They did an a1c. It was 6.1. Three weeks later. Had my three month a1c. It was 5.8. Blood sug add rs are running 70 -110. This endo. Is originally from romania. He said they do things differently treating diabetes over. All I know. It's working and have lost 15 lbs since Jan without trying.

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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/14/14 1:13 P

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Wow, I called to ask about if it would be covered and I got a rude awakening. They don't have any restriction on how often, but for EVERY lab test you have to have a pre-authorization of they will not pay for it. I have never heard of that before. It seems like everything you do you have to get a pre-authorization now. I was even told that you have to get a pre-authorization to get the strips for a meter and then they only pay 80% so I can't really afford the strips. I have 8 left with the little meter I got after the Diabetes Expo and I don't know how much more strips will cost since the pharmacist didn't have the information in the computer.

I know that the doctor was saying if my tests don't improve I would have to go back on the metformin at 1000 mg instead of the 500 I was doing, but I am tired of getting sick and diarrhea from it every day. I would like to have until the 3 months was up to see how I do with that.



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PYNETREE's Photo PYNETREE Posts: 7,634
3/14/14 12:39 P

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I was just curious about the timing of such frequent A1C tests. As the test gives you a measure of what your Blood Glucose was over the last three months.

I did get in a mess in December, as I saw a new Endocrinologist on Dec, 23rd. She had my blood work results from Sept. and Dec. ~ but was concerned that my Calcium level was creeping up, we stopped my Vit D,also she ordered some additional blood tests. I went right to the lab, gave them the slips she had written, they took 4 tubes. Results were apparently OK, Dr. called the following week.. Then I was billed $326.00 ..for lab work and test! well her office coded it wrong, which took it down to $124 ..and they argued that I had an A1C in early Dec., so this one was extraneous..I didn't think it was an A1c! But again..she had coded it wrong. I think it's been resolved..but still waiting for that to come in writing ~ before I get new blood test done!
The other thing the new Endo has concerns about, is that I have my BG in TOO TIGHT CONTROL. So after 22+ years of hearing how great I was doing keeping my A1C in the 5.2 to 5.9 range, she now wants it at about 7.0 ! So we cut one Diabetes Rx to half dose. Seems that there is NO benefit for Seniors to keep such tight control. All new to me!

I think it is great that you went to Diabetes Expo. Have not seen any around here, but I'd love to go to one.
Would also like to see a CDE or Dietician, or Nutritionist. But since I saw them once ~ even though it was over 22 years ago, and a lot has changed since then..they only cover you going once.

So Good Luck, and continue to learn as much as you can about your Diabetes. If you test often and note down everything you ate, drank, what exercise you did, how you were feeling, what was going on in your life..ie~ Stress, it will give you, and your Dr., a great look at how your body handles Diabetes. You'll know which foods Spike your BG, how 30 minutes of walking lowers your BG, and what your BG does when you are stressed, or feeling sick.

Edited by: PYNETREE at: 3/14/2014 (12:50)
If it's to be, It's up to ME!


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/13/14 10:48 P

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The second one in Feb was at the Diabetes Expo and I just did it to see what direction I was heading. The one on Tuesday I don't know why she wanted it so soon other than I might not be able to get an appointment for 3 months later rather than a month and a half. She said soonest available. They schedule usually only one month ahead and if you go through scheduling she never has any openings. Then they just have to have the clinic call me back. I certainly hope the test is covered by insurance, because I cannot afford to pay for it myself. Maybe I should call them tomorrow and ask and if it isn't try to change the appointment until the end of April.



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PYNETREE's Photo PYNETREE Posts: 7,634
3/13/14 10:11 P

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Fancyqtr ~ I have a question about your A1C numbers. If you had A1C test in Feb. why would they do another so soon?

Does your A1C get covered by Insurance? I thought they would only be covered every 3 months?
Are you using a Home Test Kit?

If it's to be, It's up to ME!


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/13/14 9:38 P

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My appointment isn't until Tuesday, so I haven't asked about anything. I will try eating something just before bed tonight rather than 2 hours before and see if that will help. I am trying to research all the drugs for this. I am pretty sure that during the day, even if I eat 100-130 g of carbs my BG is normal. At least it always was until I went on a carb binge last year. I could eat Chinese meal with sweet and sour sauce and part of the rice and only go up to 105. So it is mainly the dawn phenomenon that I am concerned with right now. I will check out the Glumetze and see what it says about it. Thanks.


Just looked up the Glumetza and it seems to be a brand name of metformin HCl. Insurance won't pay for brand names.

Edited by: FANCYQTR at: 3/13/2014 (21:44)

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ETERNAL_HOPE SparkPoints: (199)
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3/13/14 6:08 P

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I feel your pain - I've been struggling to get my fasting sugars down and am totally perplexed. I've been keeping a log of my sugars and it seems that the fuller I am just before bed, the lower my sugar in the morning. I skip bedtime snack and my fasting sugars are wayyyy high (200). Every other test, after meals etc., sugars are normal. it's just my dang fasting sugar in the morning.

Have you asked your dr about glutmetza or any other brand of metformin? Metformin, as it is, makes me house-bound, too. Glumetze, though, I can handle, and after a few weeks I hardly know I'm taking it, until I eat too much fat :(

I'd love to hear how others handle the dawn phenomena issue - there's got to be some way, other than insulin, to get it down.

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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/13/14 4:05 P

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I think the kinds of carbs I eat vary, but probably not a lot of complex since I have problems with eating a lot of the vegetables. I am the type who eats when I get hungry, so that can be 2 times a day to 4 or 5 times (I know the 4-5 is recommended, just can't eat when I'm not hungry). I am trying to get at least 1/2 hour exercise that is mostly walking or bouncing on the rebounder. I added in some wall pushups and squats the other day (will probably do the wall pushups today but was working outside in a squat position for a while and that seems to have more effect on me than the squats will today).

I have been starting my day with cheese omelet (one egg) that sometimes includes asparagus and ham. I cook the asparagus in Smart Balance spreadable butter that includes olive oil and fish oil. Usually have some small piece of meat for lunch and meat and a carb for dinner. I was starting the day with a cup of tea sweetened with one tablespoon honey (my breakfast carb), but today I sweetened with stevia instead since the BG reading was high. I only have 9 strips, so didn't check after to see what it was. Would like to eat apples and nuts sometimes, but cannot chew them, so that is a problem. Fruits have been strawberries and I do try to get the avocados, but they are not ripe here and always rot more than ripen, so that is hard.



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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 470,036
3/13/14 3:37 P

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A few things:

How often are you eating? I find that I need to eat every 3 - 4 hrs. and the blood sugar stays stable.

Are you eating a lot of complex carbs? I just find my blood sugars can't handle too many carbs, especially complex carbs. Any carbs I have are combined with a protein (like an apple with some peanut or nut butter, for example). And be sure you're getting a source of GOOD fat in your diet. That is essential for carb metabolism. (things like olive oil, avocado.)

I try not to eat after 7 pm. It's not easy, but my blood sugars are lots better since doing that.

Exercise: How much? How often? What kind? You want to be sure you get both CV and ST. ST is important because it builds muscle, which is the calorie burner and that in turn helps with the blood sugar.

DO check out the Wheat Belly. Could be helpful. Also check out Dr. Joel Fuhrman's THE BLOOD GLUCOSE SOLUTION.

Hope these suggestions help.

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,940
3/13/14 2:47 P

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I have been working to get my BG down and off the metformin since it is causing problems (can't hardly go out of the house). This morning I took my fasting BS and it was 144. I have been averaging 50-75 g carbs/day (yesterday was 84, though). I am wondering how I might be able to control the dawn phenomenon without having to go back on the metformin. I don't want to go on any of the other meds because they are now in lawsuits or have been linked with worse side effects. Would eating a piece of fruit and cheese before to bed help that? Last night I ate soup for dinner at about 8:00, but then noticed that really got my carb amount for the day higher, though I don't think it was higher than if I had eaten a piece of fruit.

I have also gotten the Wheat Belly book and am going through it to see if it will help me more. I didn't realize how many items contained wheat. It is as bad as soy that is in everything.

My A1c was 9 on the 4th of Feb and down to 8.4 or 8.6 on the 22nd so I think I am doing the right things other than the dawn phenomenon. I would like to find a way to control that, too. Any ideas would be appreciated.




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