Group photo
Author:
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/26/20 4:00 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Fbs 138 .took half glimperimide yesterday and today. Metformin at bedtime. I need to try harder to walk after dinner. It has been too hot and humid the padt few eves. It is so much easier to walk when dh will walk with me too. But he has not been up to it recently.

June 27 fbs 164 will take glimperimide one milligram. Weight same. I need to get my steps back up to ten thousand .

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/27/2020 (04:00)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/9/20 2:15 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
You are so right about the metformin, lowers blood sugar, but not too low.

Glad your post meal blood sugar does not spike too high.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/9/20 6:31 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Ok I think I have decided tohold the glimperamide unless fbs is above 130 and PC breakfast has not gone down from ffasting level for that day. This seems sensible to prevent big ups and downa as was mentionedbefore by J.
Also as metformin does not reduce glucose levels but prevention it from rising too much. Right now the plan is continue as is until August A1c or unless home testing around meals is completely in a normal rangefor an extended time

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/9/2020 (06:37)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/7/20 3:36 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
James,
Still working at the morning sugar to meet doctor standard to hit 100 mark . I have as suggested switched metformin to bedtime . It is coming down , but hoping to kick that up by walking outside after dinner. Started that yesterday And will incrementally increase walk time.

Medication dose of metformin I have not changed, have been at max dose for some time so hope to start decreasing after next a1c. Have only held the glimperamide a couple of times . Doc says hołd if below 100, I have held for 120s but will try again for 110.

Post meal spikes are very modest usually. I think using the team formuła for carb, protein fat has improved this dramatically. I have not really checked post pranial at multiple intervals yet.
I believe the next A1c will be markedly lowered. And doctor will lower my meds I think for sure
If he doesnt , I will either do it myself . Or look for an endocrinologist who will.

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/7/2020 (15:41)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/7/20 9:01 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Theresa,
its a good number of weeks of Keto now. What have you found out about yourself and type-2 diabetes and Keto?

Is your morning blood sugar lower?
Is your medication dosage different?
Is your post meal spike (increase) in blood sugar lower?
Does your blood sugar seem to go down quicker?
Is it just more even?
What do you think your next A1c test will show?
Do you think your doctor will change (lower?) your medications after you next appointment?


James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/6/20 3:10 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Theresa,
I do remember a colleague who used to regularly nod off after lunch. Something about carbs, maybe blood sugar up, then blood sugar down.

As for allergies and health and all that, a quote attributed to Hippocrates
“Let food be yourmedicine, and let medicine be your food.” his famouse quote is often attributed to .



James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/4/20 6:24 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yes James, my allergies are seasonal . Probably maple maybe pine blooms golden rod ragweed. I no longer feel as though I will pass out if I don’t nap after dinner. And I admit to being much less irritable dh appreciates that lol. Digestive issues are now manageable, even after this short time, but I have been working toward keto for some time in a gradual path. In a way the pandemic is helping , by giving me more time to focus on my own health and work on a strategy. I appreciate this group, and your help.
Well I will look forward to a happier autumn allergy wise.
Theresa

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/4/2020 (06:32)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/4/20 1:04 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yup, carbs are probably irritating the heck out of their insides, and the dog and cat allergies are just piled on top of that for an overload.

I don't know what allergies you have. Some animals? Or some seasonal things, or grass, or ... you will find about 3 months into eating Keto that you will have less problems. You already said you had more energy ... so its good!

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/3/20 1:08 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yes James , this grandaughter and her sister eat probably 80 to 90 % carbohydrate. Their mother has severe cat allergies. Our dog is not allowed near them because she lives in a house with a cat. Maybe that is why I have been held at arms length for a long time before covid. I doubt their mom would even listen to anything I might say on the topic of wheat, although I know that people often have cravings for things they have sensitivities to. . I feel a bit marginalized by this girl .... because of my age ... she seems to discount my remarks.

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/3/20 9:34 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I was seated at the same table as a medical doctor at a wedding a few years ago. The conversation turned to carbs, and Keto, and blood sugar. I asked about reversing type-2 diabetes by cutting the carbs.

He told me that it was a progressive disease, that I wasn't curing it, but managing it. I didn't want to believe it, ... it really took a number of years to accept that idea, and there is still some little part of me that wishes for a reversal. But I view it now as like a motor getting weaker over time, just don't stress that motor so that it wears out even more.

- - - - -

As for asthma and your grand daughter. I have asthmatic reactions to dogs and cats. In my early 30's my daughter, about 16 at the time really wanted a cat, and so did my wife (they both love cats). We got one, within weeks I had to have a ventolin puffer. It got worse, so irritated that I was coughing up traces of blood at some point. When I had one of those coughing fits my wife told me to use my puffer. I told her that I'd already used it the maximum number of puffs per day, and that now she had to choose between keeping the cat, or me.

Years later... I used to have breathing problems at a friends place who has two dogs and a cat. I could only ever manage to visit for about 30 to 45 minutes before my asthmatic allergies kicked in. We both took Claritin before visiting (my wife later developed allergies to dogs and cats too!). So a few months into Keto, we didn't have Claritin, ... we visited, and hour later I say to my wife "you know what, I don't have breathing problems", and then she notices that she doesn't either.

I'm thinking for your grand daughter, ... might not be Keto that she needs, but perhaps just cutting out wheat. That is a carb that many people don't even know they have issues with ... not until they cut it out and find that they feel better, or sleep better, or like me, have dog and cat allergies almost disappear. The only thing I can't do now is play with the dogs (pet them, grab them ...) and then rub my eyes. But breathing ... no problem anymore.

My opinion, I had asthmatic reaction to something (dogs and cats), which my body couldn't handle when you also add wheat (probably). But without the wheat irritant, my system wasn't in overload mode. I think you will find that other member of the team have less seasonal allergies .. I'm going to ask that question on the main discussion.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 6/3/2020 (09:38)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/3/20 5:23 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yes James,
For some reason I am getting more serious about the diabetes since the pandemic hit and diabetes was listed as a risk factor to get the worse version of the disease. I also have a six year old grand daughter with asthma. So I am very concerned about her. It is very hard to only see the girls by FaceTime. I have had diabetes for a number of years and am 70 years old. The adjustment of not being around people Particularly family, is hard, In the past I have tried one thing at a time , mainly medications to get this under control. You are correct about the strength training . I will dust off my weights and resistance bands and start adding them into garden yard routines . I have a tough time accepting the idea that it is a progressive disease. It is scary to think that near the end of our lives we need to be isolated from all the people we love. Thank goodness for dh and little dog Dorothy my yorkie girl . Well this is becoming a ramble too. But in short I won’t give up .. just keep working toward the best possible health .

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/3/2020 (05:26)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/1/20 9:53 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
(on reading this before I push the "Post" button, I see I'm rambling a bit ... oh well)

Holly (NIGHTSKYSTAR) and I as moderators of this team bring different strengths. She for example has no gall bladder, so she knows how that impacts her ability to eat fat, ... and she has no problem. I have my own issues, one of them is type-2 diabetes.

We both try to be realistic. People are not perfect, and slipping up on Keto is just one of those things that happens. We will only encourage people to get back on track. If however people try to lead others astray, let say with suggesting Russell Stover sugar free chocolates (which still have too many carbs, ... just not sugar) then we will put our foot down.

I know what you mean, some other Keto groups, or even famous personalities are certainly into selling products or services. Like "Raspberry Ketones". That one is sort of ... what is your goal, to raise your internal Ketones, or burn body fat and generate you own ketones?

Now on to blood sugar before and after eating. There is a line drawn in the sand, cross that line and you are type-2. But if you were walking down the beach getting really close to the line, your blood sugar control is getting poorer and poorer. Its like being weak if you can't lift 60 pounds. Some folks lift 100 pounds no problem, others struggle at 62. Both are "strong" because they can lift over 60. What about someone who can lift 57 with difficulty? Now weak because they couldn't lift 60, ... but really not much different that the person who lifted 62.

So blood sugar goes up after a meal, in my experience often measurable within 20 minutes. It can keep going up for the next 45 minutes or so. Then it depends on how high, and for how long. It's a lot of pin pricks and blood tests performed at home to know the height and width of your curve, and how slowly it comes down.

But cutting the carbs makes a huge huge difference to the height of that curve, and quickly it comes down too. But everyone has their own internal "strength" in managing blood sugar.

There are so many types of carbs. Everyone has a certain number of carbon atoms, and then twice as many hydrogen as oxygen (same as in water H(2)O) Some folks will play games with "simple" carbs, "complex" carbs. They think that complex carbs are digested slower, and so don't spike the blood sugar the same way. The experience with my body is that those complex carbs may be digested slower, but then it is also longer, and before my blood sugar is back down. In the end its just a self deception to make you think you can still be OK eating carbs.

As a type-2 diabetic, I don't have to get into philosophical arguments with anyone about wether Keto is some crazy diet or not. I know you can get all my nutrients, minerals, vitamins, ... you name it, you can get it all eating Keto, and I know my blood sugar is way way better.

Oh yes, ... one other thing I've taken from Dr. Fuhrman ... he suggesting getting the most nutrition per calorie consumed. Sugar has no nutrients of any kind, just calories, so on that mathematical rating sugar rates zero. Looking at any nutrient as getting your daily needs met, and at the same time lowering calories, automatically leads to Keto.

Vitamin C for example ... oranges have vitamin C, but enough sugar that they are not Keto, ... however green peppers actually have more vitamin C per calorie consumed than oranges, almost 4 times as much. I put green pepper in my salad ...


James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
6/1/20 4:01 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Exactly my question James . Excuse my lack of clarity. Keto is really uncharted territory for me ., so I am curious to find out if my body’s response is typical or not. So much of what is printed about ketosis in Many other places is just so much rubbish. It is really helpful to see what seems to me to be truth , here on this group. I will start adding some strength / weight training. As you suggested. I could use it to get in better condition for our vegetable gardening too. So thanks for the encouragement. I am not sure what my sugars around keto meals reflect because of the effect of the meds . I have switched metformin to bedtime in line with you comments about the half-life of metformin. My usual checks have been ac and 2 hour pp from beginning of meal.

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/1/2020 (11:17)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
6/1/20 1:16 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
Ah, ... I think it dawned on my what you are asking. Yes type-2 diabetics are going to have a jump up in blood sugar after a meal. If it is "normal" non-keto fare, then a certain jump.

If you eat a Keto meal, then what happens? First of all, as far as I know dietary fat has about no impact on blood sugar, and on Keto carbs are so low as to be negligible. That leaves only protein. At 50 grams of protein a day, also not much impact on blood sugar. Even when I ate a lot of protein, I saw no change in my blood sugar. So, all in all, I'd have to guess that your blood sugar goes up a little after eating a Keto meal, but nothing like when you eat a non-keto meal with say 120 grams of carbs.

What is your blood sugar experience before and after eating? You do need to wait about 30 minutes after eating, maybe an hour to see the real impact.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/30/20 5:25 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
James, I am using the spark people nutrition tool To calculate and track carbs and protein.. . I vaguely remember alternate pathways from nursing school back in the 70 s but much of what we learned must be very outdated by now. I appreciate all your help. I am not trying to go to zero carbs, probably couldn’ t even if I tried. I am just trying to keep in ketosis . From personal experience , I know that my mind is clearer than it has been in years. And energy and daily stamina are vastly improved. I don’t worry about nay sayers either. I am quite private in most settings and don’t usually tell others about my food plan, with the exception of a couple of supportive friends , one being my dh, who is with me to lose belly fat and a longtime friend .
I have concentrated my carbs to what was once called “A” list vegetables in diabetic menus at the hospital I worked at.I will check out your list .my question on daily chat about bs range was wondering do you see the same difference between pre and post glucose reading as before starting keto ?

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 5/30/2020 (05:31)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/29/20 11:29 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
somewhere on this team is a list I made, and maintain, of low carb foods ... basically about 8 grams per 100 are carbs or fewer. But the real goal is to limit total daily carbs.

If the bouillon has 1 gm of carbs per tsp ... it really depends on how many teaspoons you have per day. As long as total grams of carbs are in the 20 to 30 gram a day range, I think you are in the Keto range. NIGHTSKYSTAR is more in the 20 range as a goal, but I stretch it up a little.

You may have some people freak out when you tell them you are eating Keto, they will tell your that your brain NEEDS GLUCOSE, and by eating Keto you just aren't providing enough fuel for your brain! The truth is that your brain is pretty flexible, it can be fuelled by glucose (from carbs) or by Ketones. There is just one part of your brain that must have glucose, and it is actually more than what you get eating Keto, it needs about 30 grams a day ... so what then?

Well your liver can produce glucose from protein, and can produce as much as needed. So even if you eat no carbs at all, the liver will step in to save that little bit of your brain.

I actually like this feature of that part of the brain, ... it acts like a little carb sponge. So if you eat zero carbs, your liver will have to make some carbs from protein just for that part of the brain (look up gluconeogenesis). Don't eat it, and your liver will have to make it. So I see no point in trying to reach zero carbs. Your brain needs some. So I don't fret over the odd carb here or there. I do fret above 30.


James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/29/20 1:40 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
I saw your wall post about blood sugars ... before/after a meal. I don't know that anyone is going to reply ... hmmmm, probably not a lot of type-2 diabetics on the team, ... but who knows.

One more thing about type-2 diabetes ... Since drugs like metformin make lean cells less insulin resistant, ... the other way to do that, and you are doing it, is exercise. Walking is great.

Weight lifting could be good too, build a little muscle, and keep the muscles more "active". I'm about to do that myself, I'm putting new laminate on my stairs, ... I'll be walking up and down a lot, and outside to prepare the treads, etc. etc.

P.S. Heavy whipping cream is great, more on carbs later.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/29/2020 (13:40)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/29/20 10:39 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks James, the boullion I have says. 1 gm carbohydrate per tsp. . The cream I use is heavy whipping cream. Read real cream. So I think that is ok right ? I am quite careful to read labels . Sadly I will probably always be drawn to fresh bread, but luckily some how ice cream cakes pies cookies etc have never been something I really want . It is more potatoes pastas breads more of the savory carbs than the sweet ones . This has always been so for me.

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 5/29/2020 (12:20)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/29/20 10:19 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
I'll give you more impressions of type-2 diabetes (having lived it for so long).

Sadly I don't think there is a cure for this disease, just management. The body's ability to manage carbs is in some way worn out. I view insulin as the fire department coming to put out a fire (high blood sugar). For a long time this works. Eat carbs, blood sugar goes up, insulin kicks in to lower it.

Insulin is really a fat storage hormone, store the excess carbs into fat. So chances are you gain body fat too. Then slowly this system gets exhausted, one day you cross an arbitrary line in the blood sugar "sand" and your are technically type-2.

What to do? One option is to take drugs like metformin, which makes existing insulin more effective. The other option is to reduce carb intake (like eating Keto) to put less stress on the system. I do both.

Thankfully there is another piece to the puzzle. The more body fat you have, the more it resists being stored into. So as you loose body fat your insulin resistance goes down, and you can manage carbs better. It's not an instant cure, it is long term management. Keto is a great path towards loosing excess body fat. I'd say 99% of the people interested in eating Keto are interested for body fat loss reasons, not blood sugar, not cutting nutritionally empty calories.

But for a type-2 diabetic loosing body fat helps for better regulation of blood sugar. I don't think it will every be normal for you and me, but better, manageable, perhaps without drugs in the long run, but not back to eating bread and ice-cream and at the same time having blood sugar under control.

P.S. on the bullion and stuff ... got to read labels. Coffee-mate, a coffee "whitener" is mostly carbs too.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/29/20 6:51 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks James. Those are great guidelines. Maybe I am expecting immediate changes when ,I should look for gradual trend changes instead. My plan is to have boullion with butter as a snack between meals as wanted instead of reaching for meat. A teaspoon of boullion has 1 carb and nothing else..

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/28/20 11:37 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
It sounds like your metabolism is actually doing pretty well ... so eating 1/4 cup of peas won't raise your blood sugar for hours and hours, ... maybe just one hour or so.

Metformin makes existing insulin more effective. So it's hard to lower you blood sugar too much with this drug. Your body will recognize that it needs to release less insulin, it will find a balance.

Metformin is good that way, it doesn't burn out the pancreas. Now if your blood sugar is under control, it is possible to reduce the amount of metformin, and let the pancreas produce more insulin. It's a balancing act.

My opinion on protein ... and I say it that way, its an opinion, is that about 50 grams a day is minimum. Some folks say women can have less, but I go with the wikipedia number of 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. So that is 0.36 grams that one should eat each day for each pound of body weight:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein
_(nutrien
t)


Let's say your weight, or your ideal weight is something like 150 pounds, 150 times 0.36 is 54 grams. So 50 grams ,54 grams, even 65 grams ... no big deal.

But 100 grams or more, in my opinion too much. Not just because the number is high, but because from real food, it is hard to get, and that should tell you it is too much.

So 65 grams or protein, perhaps higher than "ideal" but still good.


James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/28/20 1:26 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Before. Keto 150s to 190s . After keto start 120s to 130s . Held glim this morning For fbs of 120. and felt loopy after a pork snack , it was 191. So I took glim at that point. I think I need to decrease protein from 65 grams to 40s. The carbs are below 20 . Lettuce cabbage cucumbers only . No fruit no grains no starchy vegetables at all. I did have maybe a quarter cup up of peas in a lunch salad yesterday. But I wouldn’t think that would have a delayed effect. I did have less water today and it is a hot humid day .... reaching here lol. I think I am fighting a stubborn metabolism. Also adjustment to lower levels of metformin mid morning than usual . Thanks for your support .

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 5/28/2020 (13:43)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/28/20 10:27 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I don't think your are imagining.

I just looked fasting blood sugar up, and here is a Canadian page from the a government agency for the province of "British Columbia"
www.healthlinkbc.ca/health-to
pics/aa13
5726


Adult normal fasting and just before a meal ... it says
"Fasting and before meals: 4.0 to 7.0 millimoles per litre (mmol/L)"

To convert to the units you are using (mg/dl) , multiply by exactly 18, so they think normal fasting range is 72 to 126 mg/dl. So according to them morning 120 is higher end of normal.

What was your morning fasting number before Keto? What was it after Keto but before switching the timing of taking metformin?

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/28/2020 (10:30)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/28/20 3:15 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yes James,
I took metformin just before bed last night full dose. Now eight hours later morning sugar is 120. I know that presently “normal” is below 100. It seems to me that I remember a time when 120 was top normal number for fasting. AmI imagining things ?

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/28/20 12:50 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,

i have to say, I've had similar thoughts. The of diabetic drugs is to lower blood sugar, as high blood sugar just isn't good for you.

You could take this medication around meal times, to lower the spike of blood sugar after a meal, but if that spike isn't so bad because you are moving and exercising in some way (which also lowers blood sugar), then perhaps metformin might lower morning blood sugar.

Half life of metformin is 6 hours, so after about 8 hours it should still have some effect.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/27/20 4:16 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Idea ..... take metformin at bedtime to reduce morning sugar

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/26/20 4:09 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
My energy is excellent. Before keto I needed a nap in the afternoon, was exhausted before bedtime. Now I am no longer needing a nap, getting much more accomplished. Also the cravings are gone. When ice cream was mentioned the other day it sounded terrible to me . But my all time weakness has been soft white fresh bread. So I know I need to stay away from that. The energy also seems calmer, not a surge and a crash like before but a steady level. I think this must be a lifetime change. I never want to return to the roller coaster that was my life before.

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/26/20 1:34 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
How is your energy? Pretty much back to before you cut the carbs?

Glad you told your doctor and he/she didn't sound like they flipped out.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/21/20 10:09 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks James!
I told my doc that I am my own science exoeriment lol.
Hope it is ok , I would like to keep a kindof log on this thread.
Yesterday day one of serious keto, with moderate Purple on test strips . intake was : calories 1899 , carb 11, fat 180, protein 61. Will work on reducing protein more.

Today waking sugar 170 before first breakfast coffee and 3t cream. Two hours later Before Real breakfast 147 Two hours after breakfast and meds and walk 122.
Just interesting to me how the early morning hormonal sugar can be so high..but as James says it takes time for change. Thanks for the feed back on fat intake after GB removal.
May 22.... moderate ketones this morning . Bs 133 morning fasting. I
Then 109 with hunger, probably I havent been this low foralong time.
May 23. Fbs 141 ketones moderate early AM. Coffee and cream first breakfast. Breakfast one egg 2T butter 3 breakfast saus@ges . Walked 30 .
May 24. Waking sugar 109. Trace ketones. Holding glimperamide this morning since I felt so squirrelly yesterday with sugar at this level later in day.
May 25. Waking sugar 151 ketones large. Will take glimperamide weight up pound and a half from yesterday.
May 26. Waking sugar 140 weight same as yesterday
May 27 weight up another pound. Waking sugar 154.ketones moderate.
May 28. Weight back down 2, waking sugar 120 after changing metformin to bedtime. Ketones moderate. Holding glimperamide.
May 29. Weight back down a half pound, fbs117 took glim, pc second breakfast 142, 3 hr pc coffee with cream . Ketones trace. We
May 31. Weight up 2 fbs 132 took glim, ketones trace. Ppbs 130 .
June 1 weight down 3 fbs 130 took glim. Ketones small.
June 2 weight up 2 .
June 3 weight down 1 Lb , fbs 140. 2 hr pc bs 135. Forgot glim so will hold for now. Since sugar went down after eating without it.
June 4 weight unchanged, fbs 132 , pc bs 140 , 3* after coffee and cream 2 hours after full breakfast.
June 5 weight down 1/2 lb ketones large for first time, bs 136 took glim . First breakfast coffee 4 T cream . Post first breakfast 132, . 2 hour Pp. full breakfast one egg coconut oil butter dandelion greens half cup.
June 6 weight down. Half lb. . Fbs 163 4 T cream, ,after first breakfast 2 half hour after 157. First bf. trace ketones.breakfast egg bacon 2 chard half cup lots of butter bacon grease a coconut oil . Half hour walk. Counted by Fitbit, probably helped to play go get it with Dorothy the Yorkie.
June 8, weight up a pound. Fbs 130.
June 9 weight stable fbs 131 PC bs 120 after walk . Holding glim. Ketones mód.
June 12 weight up fbs 154. Taking glim.
June 14weight back down 2 lb, fbs 129 holding glim as I did yesterday. I took psyllium last evening before sleep to have fiber on board to help lower morning sugar, and will begin the weight trying as suggested today. Lots of yard work yesterday .
June 15 weight down one half. Fbs 113 glim held , PC bs 139, three more hours PC 120 bs. Psyllium last noc.

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/15/2020 (10:07)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/21/20 9:32 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
That is strange. Good that cutting carbs seems to have helped with fat digestion...

But just as I wrote that a thought occurred. For fat digestion two things are going on.

The first thing going on is the use of bile. Bile, as I said changes surface tension and breaks down the fat "droplets" into more, but smaller droplets, increasing overall surface area.

The second thing going on are the digestive enzymes to digest the fat. The point of increasing the surface area is to expose more surface area to the fat digestive enzymes produced in the pancreas. But your saying that cutting carbs helped with fat made a lightbulb go on. Your pancreas produces amylase, an enzyme in carb digestion. It also produces lipase, an enzyme for fat digestion. I'm betting that when you cut down on carbs, your pancreas "re-tooled" to produce more lipase and less amylase, which, actually helped you digest fats better, even without optimal surface area.

Thank you for bringing up the odd behaviour.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/21/2020 (09:34)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/20/20 3:32 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
The od thing about having a gallbladder gone is that fat tolerance is often very poor. I had thiS experience but After cutting way back on carbs that resolved. Odd?

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/20/20 9:24 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
More to say later.

I test on the side of the tip of a finger, not on the finger print area itself. Each finger has 2 sides, so that is 20 test spots, up from 10.

Also, fewer nerves there, less painful, ... also as you go about your day and touch things you don't disturb the little pokes. I think healing is a little better then too.

I heard from one guy I met once that blood sugar varies a little from finger to finger... I don't think so, but if it does, so what? My quality of life (less sore fingers) is worth more than slightly more consistent numbers.

NIGHTSKYSTAR also has no gallbladder. I would have thought that this was rather important for storing bile, which is part of fat digestion. As a nurse you must know what bile does. As a physicist, I think about the surface tension. Bile lowers the surface tension of water, and we know how fat bubbles form in water. If you make the same fat bubbles smaller (same amount of fat, just many more but smaller bubbles) then there is more surface area presented to the enzymes and things that digest fat.

Like if you have a block of cheese, and it has a certain surface area, if you cut it in half, same amount of cheese, but more surface area.

As far as I know NIGHTSKYSTAR, with no gallbladder, has no discomfort eating Keto. You can ask her if she changes anything she does to accommodate that.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/20/2020 (09:41)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/20/20 3:12 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yes James, I was strictly controlling carbohydrate but not limiting protein. . I suppose this should have been glaringly obvious , but now. The light has come on. I have been doing sugar checks just before eating and two hours after. Ketones have variety from trace to moderate. Protein intake has been way above the 40 to 65 mentioned here in team goals. And yes I have A food scale in the kitchen . It is great to have people who actually understand this facet of metabolism. I am thinking using broth with butter as a night time snack and increasing cream cheese to smoked salmon ratio in daytime snack. I had better get some avocados too I think. One extra challenge for me is my gallbladder was removed a few years ago . And the number of tests I do per day is mostly related to how my old fingertips feel .

Thank you James

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 5/20/2020 (09:19)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/19/20 9:53 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
... OK you decided to drop one of the diabetes meds and see how it goes. I think that is a good decision.

I don't know how many blood sugar test strips you can afford to use. I'd suggest you take your blood sugar before eating, eat you meal, record what you ate (do you weigh your portions?), then wait about one hour and take your blood sugar then. You'll get a feeling for how much your meals push your blood sugar up. Maybe 2 hours after you eat as well.

I was curious about your wall post, ... you thought you were being super strict, ... but weren't?

A body needs a certain minimum amount of protein. Like here on Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary
_Referenc
e_Intake

46 grams for a woman per day, 56 grams for men. It is all based on 0.8 grams of protein consumed for each kilogram of body weight, that is about 0.36 grams per pound of body weight:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein
_(nutrien
t)


I'd like to weigh 165 pounds, so 165 times 0.36 is 59.4 pretty much bang on the one size fits all number of 60 grams of protein a day for a man.

I've consumed a lot of protein at one point, as an experiment on myself. I was checking for gluconeogenesis. I didn't see any change in my blood sugar. I think that carb oriented folks might turn excess protein into blood sugar, but maybe not in ketosis. I think in ketosis the body is not looking for carbs to burn, it is looking for fat to burn. So I think that if you are in ketosis excess protein is stored as fat, and later when that fat is needed for fuel it is used that way, ... so a round about way. But protein is a very valuable item. People need it to build muscle and tissues, insects need it too. Its sort of a sad waste to take such a precious material and just store it away as body fat. There are much "cheaper" ways to put on body fat. Anyway 50 to 60 grams of protein a day amounts to a pretty normal amount of meat or whatever, not a huge steak, but a small one.

One's digestive chemistry can get calories (energy to heat your body, and energy to move) from protein, or fat, or carbs. For you and me both, as type-2 diabetics where carbs mess up our blood sugar, it is good that we can get calories from fat or protein too.


The Keto "philosophy" is to get most of your calories from fat. The body chemistry sort of gets "tuned" to handle one easier than another. If your body chemistry is "tuned" to get calories from fat, from dietary fat, then it is easier to get calories from body fat too. Eating more protein confuses that process. Eating carbs ... even more confusion.

The crossover time to tune the body chemistry is really a few weeks. Its not meal to meal. Think of the biathlon athlete who does two things, skis like crazy, cardio, then stops and shoots, delicate coordination. That athlete does not instantly switch from one type of muscle use to another, the whole body has to "tune" to another sport, and that does take some time.

There is some controversy about gluconeogenesis, but if you eat just enough protein, and not more, you never get into that range where it could even be an issue. Your body is going to use all that protein to maintain its lean parts, it won't "burn" the rest. Also, as far as I know dietary fat, even too much dietary fat as no impact on blood sugar, or very close to zero.

Excess body fat does have an impact on blood sugar. If one eats a fair bit of carbs and blood sugar goes up, the body wants to use insulin to store the excess into body fat and lower blood sugar that way. But if the fat cells are already very full, they don't easily take more, so blood sugar does not go down as it should. But if you loose body weight (which folks drawn to Keto typically do), then this improves insulin sensitivity, and in the long run improves blood sugar too.

Its all pretty tricky inter-related stuff. ... I feel like I'm rambling, ... time to stop. I'll be back though.




Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/19/2020 (22:44)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/19/20 2:31 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thank you James. I am checking sugars at least twice a day . So , I think I may check when I am pretty sure it will be fairly low , and justify an experimental week of no glimperamide. Then see how the trend looks in that week . Maybe after a month of strict keto. Just a thought but I am concerned about wearing out the old pancreas. I am not a spring chicken after all lol. The info you have here about restricting the protein makes perfect sense. I had not thought about that and of course protein can be used to fuel the glucose pathway . So thank you thank you .

 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
DAWNWATERWOMAN's Photo DAWNWATERWOMAN SparkPoints: (655,836)
Fitness Minutes: (420,692)
Posts: 93,392
5/19/20 9:39 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks for the good information James

DAWN: Proud Leader of the ROCKIN' RED FOXES

QUOTE: "To love another person is to see the face of God." -Victor Hugo



 current weight: 284.0 
475
402.5
330
257.5
185
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/19/20 9:25 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
BABCIATEA,
Part of me wants to tell you what to try... but medically, and from the view of Sparkpeople, I can't do that. But I can tell you what I know, and think, and have done. It's a fine line.

You are right on the a1c, about 3 months. It's what I term an average, a fading average. The farther a blood sugar level is in the past, the less it contributes. Sort of like this sequence:
1/2 , 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32

Each value is half the previous one, and adding them ALL up, it adds to 1. So if you have these numbers to take a weighted average of:
8 8 8 8 ...

You get 8. Then you eat lower carb, the weighted average of the previous 8's and one new 7:
7 8 8 8 8 ...
The 7 counts for half and the previous 8's have a weight of 1/4, 1/8 ...

The weighted sum of those is 7.5. Then you eat Keto, blood sugar goes to 5
5 7 8 8 8 8 ...

Your a1c is like that. 1/2 weight to the 5, 1/4 weight to the 7, and appropriate weights to the rest of the 8's. The a1c test is like that. In roughly 3 months older blood sugar values fade in their impact. Hope I'm not boring you.

I think you are right. A month on low carb had an impact, a week on Keto ... well maybe a ting bit. I'd guess that you are going to see a bigger drop in A1c next time. I totally agree on being nervous about glimepramide. "Stimulating" the pancreas to make more insulin sounds gentle, but I think it could exhaust the pancreas earlier in life. Like taking amphetamines to stay awake, you stay awake now, but crash later.

On the metformin, no my blood sugars didn't drop to normal, lower, but not quite normal. But for many years I didn't change my diet much. No sugar filled drinks, no chocolate bars, but I was eating toast, mashed potatoes, rice ... if it didn't taste sweet I though I was good.

Dawn syndrome, yes, pretty sure I've seen that in myself. Still playing with that. Raised blood sugar before waking is, I think, just part of the waking up pattern, so not the glimepramide. What you can try is a Keto snack shortly before bed. Not big, but something. Like a cheese stick (or two). This may keep your sleeping blood sugar more even... worth a try, and you can measure your morning blood sugar to see.




Edited by: -JAMES- at: 5/19/2020 (10:22)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
BABCIATEA's Photo BABCIATEA SparkPoints: (73,323)
Fitness Minutes: (67,528)
Posts: 2,149
5/19/20 4:39 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thank you James. I actually had my a1c done after about a month on a lower carb regime. And probably one week on keto or almost keto. As you well know a1c covers about three months. So I was pleasantly surprised to find my value had gone from7.1 to 6.9 in that time. I am on two grams of metformin and 1 gram glimepramide. I had a zoom meeting with my doc, who is quite broad minded . He aggreed to test me at three months rather than six for metabolic panel and a1c with six month lipid panel.so late August I will be rechecked by lab. I also check two or more blood sugars per day. .morning fasting had gone down to around 120. I, now this week are back up in 150 range. . discussed with doc when to stop glimperamide as I was a little nervous about the one stimulating th pancreas. . He said when sugars drop below 100. .
My question to you... did your sugars drop to normal when still on metformi.n? Had you experienced the dawn syndrome where early morning fasting is higher than other readings during the day ? Also have you thoughts about whether glimperamide could keep morning readings high by stimulating insulin production ? So creating a kind of battle of insulin and sugar or does that even make any sense? .

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 5/19/2020 (04:47)
 current weight: 203.0 
215
211.25
207.5
203.75
200
-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 14,893
5/18/20 11:07 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Some folks say that type-2 diabetes is just something you get if you are unlucky.

I disagree. I think continual consumption of too many carbs slowly wears out the blood sugar regulation system. Insulin, though natural, is an emergency mechanism to lower high blood sugar. Poison ivy is natural too, but ...

For type-2 diabetics, after a while either the ability to generate insulin is reduced, or the cells (like fat cells) become insensitive to insulin. They may be saying, "no more fat storage, ... please!"

But in any case, if you start eating Keto, you have stopped the carb onslaught. This means that your body is not working so hard to lower blood sugar. Type-2 diabetes medications may be lowering blood sugar too much.

I can't give anyone medical advice, but I'll tell you what I did.

What I did was lower my meds, and monitor my blood sugar regularly. Actually I forgot my meds accidentally, took my blood sugar and was very surprised that it was OK. The half life of metformin is about 6 hours. So since I had forgotten my medication for one day, and half way into the next, about 30 hours later, and my blood sugar was almost normal, every bit as good as it had been with medication, I knew at that point the effects of the metformin had been cut in half, and again in half... five times. So 1/32, so really, 30 hours later the metformin was out of my system.

Keto was a diet that my body could still manage it's own blood sugar, without medication. Not a cure for type-2 diabetes, but a management strategy.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 172.5 
217
204
191
178
165
Page: 1 of (1)  

Report Innappropriate Post

Other Team Keto! Exercise & Health & Science Posts

Topics:
Last Post:
5/31/2019 3:47:33 PM
7/14/2019 9:58:31 PM
6/30/2019 9:33:17 AM
9/29/2019 8:10:44 AM



Thread URL: https://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=32675x58536x73693428

Review our Community Guidelines