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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
11/15/18 7:48 A

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I also FEEL so much better when I first eat for the day when I'm actually hungry, and not just because it's time to eat. These days I almost never get hungry until lunch time, and sometimes I can stretch it out to dinner. That's a bit harder.

Karen "KD"





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DMT1956's Photo DMT1956 SparkPoints: (15,006)
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11/14/18 1:02 P

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yes it is good
makes sense to rest the gut

keto beginner


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10/20/18 1:09 P

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IF works for me. EF works great as well - 10 day fasts!

I only have to exercise the muscles I want to keep!


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BRENDA1946's Photo BRENDA1946 Posts: 4,847
10/13/18 11:25 A

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Yes, it works for me, too




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10/12/18 9:04 A

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yes IF works for me .

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8/13/18 6:39 P

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Thank you all for your wonderful insights and I will keep what you say in mind that is for sure!!!!!!

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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
8/12/18 7:14 A

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Thanks James - I have heard N=1 so much I forgot where it came from.

There have been studies that have shown that your insulin rises when something sweet gets into your mouth - even if you spit it out.

So we don't want our insulin high if we want to lose weight - as insulin is a fat storage hormone and you can't store and burn fat at the same time.

On the other hand, I think if you are eating food, your insulin is naturally up some anyway, even if it's a high fat meal. Protein also raises insulin, though not as much as carbs do. So if you choose to drink Diet Coke, drinking it with a meal would be the best time in my opinion.



Karen "KD"





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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,336
8/12/18 1:44 A

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FORTHEKING1,
the "equation" N=1 is from Jimmy Moore, who wrote "Keto Clarity". It means everyone is an individual, and individual results vary.

I don't drink a lot of diet soda, perhaps an average of a can every two days. In principle it won't effect Ketosis because it has no calories. However, it does taste sweet, and you certainly think you are consuming sugar (don't you?). Just how much of you brain is tricked into thinking it is consuming sugar? Just the part that consciously tastes the sweetness, and no other part?

So its a slippery slope. Each person is different. You just have to see how it works for you. Your intuition should tell you if it is an issue.



Edited by: -JAMES- at: 8/12/2018 (01:46)
James
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NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (575,642)
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8/11/18 2:36 P

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i drink sparking water all the time..i get the canada dry brand..its flavored but no sweetener at all. you get an "essence" of whatever..i like the berry one. since fruit is a no it at least gives me the flavor!!

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
8/11/18 2:08 P

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It's hard to say. Sparkling water - definitely not. Diet Cokes - they are sweet. They do not raise glucose (as far as I understand the mechanisms) but they do raise insulin. It's probably dependent on your own body.

For me - once I got solidly into ketosis, I could have a SF beverage (I don't drink cokes, but maybe a tequila and SF lemonade) once in awhile and it not kick me out of ketosis. Doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

N=1

Karen "KD"





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8/10/18 4:51 P

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I have a bad habit of drinking diet cokes or sparkling water; will or is this going to throw me out or ketosis?

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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
8/10/18 7:47 A

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I measure almost every day - but really now I'm guessing what I'm at before I measure. It's a compliance tool for me, and it's been working so I'm going to keep doing it for the foreseeable future. You certainly don't HAVE to measure.

As far as IF goes - there are a lot of different opinions on it. Some never do it, never did it, and never will. Some try it, don't like it and quit. Some try it, it doesn't work and they quit.

Some try it, like it, and continue. But you need to shake it up if you're doing it. Megan Ramos, from IDM (Intensive Dietary Management) Program in Toronto is a facilitator of Dr. Jason Fung's clinic and fasts thousands of people. She advocates changing things up all the time. Maybe a 24 hour fast two times a week, then eat normal the rest. Or do a three day fast, then eat normal.

If you are just new to IF, just skipping breakfast is where most people start. BUT - some have found that their progress stalls when fasting. So you need to experiment and see where you fall in this spectrum. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, move on. Keto is magic enough all by itself.


Karen "KD"





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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,336
8/10/18 1:38 A

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I hardly read thus topic because I don't do intermittent fasting.

But for FORTHEKING1 ...
I don't think it is protein that gets you into ketosis, it is the lack of carbs. Carbs raise blood sugar, which is fine if you use that for action like walking, running, etc. But if you don't burn it immediately, high blood sugar is bad, so insulin helps store it away in your body fat.

So carbs as low as you want. Ketosis simple means getting most of your calories from fat. The insulin reaction to carbs means fat storage mode, which is the opposite to ketosis.

How much protein is another question. You need protein, but not to get into ketosis, you just need it for lean body parts. Women about 50 grams a day, and men about 60. More than that will hurt getting into ketosis. It's a fine line on protein.

P.S. mesuring ketones is something you may do to scientifically know if you are in ketosi. Me? I've never measured, I just eat very low carb.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 8/10/2018 (01:59)
James
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Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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8/9/18 7:35 P

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For the King please ask all the questions you want thats what we are here for!!

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
8/9/18 7:32 A

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You do not need ketosis sticks to know you're in ketosis. You will know when you can go a long time between feeding and not feel hungry. There is also ketosis "breath" that is a slightly minerally tell tale - look up signs of ketosis. They are different for everybody.

Low carb (less than 20g) moderate protein (think the size of your palm for a meal) and the rest fat. You might want to track your macros (fat/pro/carb) for awhile to see if you are getting the appropriate amount of each.

Also one thing to note - you should eat to your BMR (basal metabolic rate) unless you are fasting. If you eat less than your BMR, your metabolism can and probably will slow down. A good range is your BMR to TDEE (total daily energy expenditure). You can google both of those, and get a very good idea of where your calories should be.

Now it is true that keto is not a calorie way of eating - but you still cannot go over consistently and lose weight. The quality of your calories will be a lot better, and you will not be constantly hungry - and your body heals itself with keto. This is the beauty of keto.

Also - if you are just starting out, it takes awhile to get into ketosis. Days, even weeks for some people. Stay the course and keep ketoing on. There are many people on this website that have lost a LOT of weight and kept it off with keto. And it is fast for some.

It's been slow for me. 25 pounds since January 10. But I am THRILLED with that.

Karen "KD"





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8/8/18 5:48 P

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So, if I simply eat high levels of fat; lower carb intake to 20 grams gross carbs; eat moderate protein from meat or nut sources ( to avoid peanut butter and sugary foods); and get excercize in I should be good? I do not have keto strips so how would I know if I am in Ketosis? Forgive me for asking a lot of questions, but I am basically new to keto and need advice.Thank you very much for your time and patience!!!!!

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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
8/8/18 7:25 A

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I agree with Holly. It's important to be in ketosis before fasting. Being in ketosis tamps down the hunger, thus making fasting easier. Also, once you are in ketosis, your body is going to be ready to draw from your fat for energy. When you just start out, you are a sugar burner, and your body will be screaming for the glucose it is no longer getting (since you're fasting) but if it is used to going to body stores, the transition will be easier.

Check out 2KetoDudes podcast. They give a formula of less than 20 grams of carbs, .8 to 1.0 gram of protein for each KG of lean body mass you have (what you weighed in high school with no fat on you, rough benchmark) and the rest fat. Fat to satiety. Fat to make your food taste good, fat to keep you from being hungry. Your body will do the rest, drawn down on your body fat to provide it with enough energy to fun on.

Karen "KD"





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NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (575,642)
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8/7/18 6:48 P

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James? i think 75 or 80 grams of protein? James will know the answer. but its really the carbs you need to concentrate on..

Holly
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8/7/18 6:33 P

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What about for males about how much protein to get us into ketosis?

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8/7/18 6:04 P

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Do you mean you are just starting keto? I would not fast at all until you are IN ketosis, if at all.
To get into ketosis, cut your carbs to under 20 grams a day. Up your healthy fats, and keep your protein moderate (under 60 gm a day for women)
Some people take longer than others to get into ketosis..be patient, stick to it, be sure to have salty chicken broth, Powerade zero, or salt water if you don’t feel well.

Holly
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8/7/18 5:59 P

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So how long should one fast for before they go back to eating keto? What specifically should be done in what order to gain ketosis?

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6/28/18 6:40 P

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you are better than I. I raised dairy goats for years. i gave away the bucks because I couldnt stand to sell them for slaughter. I get attached...lol. so I let someone else do that part.

I have a smoker..my kids gave it to me for my birthday last year...LOVE IT. makes everything better!!

Holly
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6/28/18 5:00 P

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I would love to have my own pigs They would be a great addition to the garden. My husband has said I can have any animal but that, but my son has started making his own smoker and is interested so I may get one yet! Kids are the magic. I have friends that give us bacon from show pigs but they are not grass fed and I am sort of a sob about that.

Even my chickens are grass fed in hay rings lined with wire and moved every day for 10 weeks. Then I process 90 in one long day and put them in the walk-in freezer.

Intimacy begins with oneself. -Thomas Moore


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,336
6/28/18 1:04 P

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LIVEYOUNG2,
I never even thought of looking on your page ... but I will now.
emoticon

James
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Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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6/28/18 9:59 A

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your food day looks great Liveyoung!!!

Had to chuckle this morning...someone posted on the ketovangelist FB page..
"fasted 40 hours lost NOTHING"
coach responded...thats because fasting isnt to lose its for therapeutic

Keto is #1 for the health benefits...weight loss is just a happy result for most of us.

loved this!!!

Loveyoung..have you tried making your own sausage? ground fatty pork, spices, sage...so much better tasting than the other.
i do buy the aldi breakfast sausage..its pretty plain with not much in it, no sugar and tastes great..but i far prefer homemade!

Holly
Northern NY
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6/28/18 9:11 A

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Sure James. I lost about 6 pounds in no time at all on watching portions and cutting my treats. (I tend to think to highly of myself as far as treats). Then nothing so I went on keto. Lost 2 pounds right away and now nothing. I am perhaps at a plateau so I joined "plateau busters" for 30 days to make sure I remember it has got to be temporary and to wait it out for at least 30.
I have noticed, however, fluctuations between night and morning are not as dramatic. Very little gain during the day and that is lost by morning.

I eat (can't you guys read our page? You are welcome at any time on mine):

coffee and cream for breakfast
3 scrambled eggs with butter for lunch
mixed salad (for 5 veggies) at night with oil and vinegar and grass fed ground meat topping

I measured 8oz of water in my normal drinking tumbler and had to laugh. I drink 4 of those at least 3 times a day. Tried sausages, but read the label and the ones I got have too many fillers so went back to hamburger that I raise myself.

Intimacy begins with oneself. -Thomas Moore


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6/22/18 8:59 P

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I fasted for 3 days to get my body back under my control and not its own mind. I tend to need a heavy hand. That seems to have helped and now a high fat diet is keeping me in that control

Intimacy begins with oneself. -Thomas Moore


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EO4WELLNESS's Photo EO4WELLNESS Posts: 15,653
5/18/18 3:27 P

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I've had success, especially with fat loss and muscle gains,using Keto plus Dr. Jason Fung's IF routine;

Day 1--fast till dinner (no snacks)
Day 2-eat lunch and dinner (no snacks)
Day 3-fast till dinner (no snacks)
Day 4-eat lunch and dinner (no snacks)
Day 5-fast till dinner (no snacks)
Day 6-eat lunch and dinner (no snacks)
Day 7- eat breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Train like a beast, look like a beauty! Join us:
teams.sparkpeople.com/blogilates


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5/14/18 10:18 A

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Kathleen..IF and fasting, I gain. No clue why. I did IF for 4 months..no food from 6 pm to 1 or 2 in the afternoon. I ate very moderately with one meal around 1 or 2 in the afternoon, another at 5:30 in the evening. And i stalled or gained. i did a 24 hour fast twice. I was climbing the walls..it was horrible. I have no explanation. When you get a Ketovangelist coach, you are asked to pick who you think would be the best "fit". I picked the one i did because he has done many many tests and trials with his clients and has found that they do far better on 3 distinct meals a day with TDEE as the goal for calories. Lots of people say fasting is the way to go, but it sure wasn't working for me. TDEE was really foreign to me, and i was really skeptical. I mean..HOW can i eat 2300 cals a day and not gain when i wasnt losing on 1000?? but i paid my money and i don't waste a penny of money its too hard to come by.
So, i said ok..for the 30 days i do what this guy says. Exactly. And didn't i just start losing again, after a very long stall/gain/stall/gain period brought on by IF. Broke a major number on the scale.
Then he left as a ketovangelist coach and went on his own. He kept me on for the remainder of my month, but Ketovangelist, which is who i had paid, told me to pick another coach. She advocated fasting. I was confused and didn't know what to do..so i carefully saved every morning meeting with her..every IM. and finished off the month with the other guy, doing as he said, eating what i considered huge amounts of cals, and more than i really wanted to eat, but it was working.
At the end of my month I switched to the other coach's teaching. and i started to gain. i lowered my cals. fasted. and gained. Again. For me, the first coach's approach is far better. He is certified in nutrition, does many of his own studies, is now once again furthering his degree. He's been keto for 12 years, was very large and lost a tremendous amount of weight, so he is a person that understands. He has many, many following his way and doing extremely well. He suggests fasting ONLY if your metabolism is so badly damaged regular keto isn't effective. And then, only 1-2 times a week, breakfast to breakfast. so you eat a normal breakfast, then not again until the next mornings breakfast..he has solid evidence that even with doing days of fasting, your body breaks its fast when you wake up in the morning. Insulin rises, and your body reacts. When he used to allow any sweeteners, he said only use them at breakfast, as your insulin is already up then.
Pretty much everything makes sense..he goes from a scientific approach. He can back up everything he says with fact. He and at least one other person, a small woman, once again tested his "cico is rubbish" statement, eating 5000 calories a day. She, again, lost as she did the first time. I believe he gained a small amount..the first time they did it they had access to a body composition test..this time he didn't..but the first time..he gained 4 pounds. most of that was fluid or muscle, NOT fat.

As I've said over and over, do whats right for you. But do it aware of the different ways. I did fasting for months. and gained or maintained. Others can lose. still others lose, but the second they start eating again they gain it back and more.
I suspect genetics has a great deal to do with it. over the millenia our bodies have had to adapt to our environments..look at my dog..a Newfoundland. They swam in frigid waters, in all seasons, saving lives. The cold is their friend. They are not skinny animals. Every winter some well meaning person stops and tells me they are calling the authorities because my "poor dog" is out in cold and snow. She has a choice, always. She chooses cold and snow..and A/C inside in the warmer months. Like me. If I was a dog I would probably be a newf.
Other dogs were used to heat..put them in the cold and after a bit they will perish.
So I don't agree that one thing fits everyone.
There are basic rules to keto that pretty much all the successful camps abide by..there are a few that don't agree but they don't see the success that the others do. Things like what you shouldn't eat on keto..and the accepted macros. Again to repeat, if you want to find a way to eat something not accepted as a keto friendly food, you can find someone out there to tell you its ok. It's not..but this guy said it was..so it must be, right? Because I saw it on YouTube or read it in a blog. But, really, it isn't.
I guess because most of my degrees are in science, i research. I look at successes from others. I screwed myself up fasting..for the first time in my 57 years I was losing weight at a really good speed, and I got greedy. It wasn't fast enough. Now that i found the key i wanted to do it as quickly as possible, and I wasn't happy with the one or 2 pounds a week I was losing, because i HAD been losing 3-5. And i screwed it all up. That's also when I learned to stay off the scale, and just eat keto correctly, and let it work.
I have many friends, some I've helped start keto, that do IF or fasting and continue to lose, and are happy doing that. Bravo!! That's fine..it is a good thing for them, they enjoy it, and feel good, so why not?
Another approach is the keto coach I talk with the most. She suggested to me that I only even attempt fasting if i'm finding myself full ALL the time. Then take a meal off, or try longer if I feel good. Don't push it, and listen to my body. So i'm in between. I don't eat the TDEE 2300 cals a day. Nor do i fast..I just listen to my body. I'm losing again, but slowly, and that's ok. I'm so close to my goal for the first time since 1977 it's truly close enough if i never lose another ounce. And, frankly, that's the biggest gift keto has given me. I know i'm healthy now. I know I just added years to my life changing my eating to keto. And thats good enough.



Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,960
5/14/18 7:46 A

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I think natural eating is the best. If you're hungry, it's much more pleasant to eat.

Holly if you think IF is not giving you the best results, how do reconcile natural eating with extended non-eating times? Do you have to force yourself to eat breakfast even if you're not hungry to continue losing?

While we were on vacation, my husband declared that he would start eating better. He says he'll eat healthy - whatever that means to him. I'm still cooking, so I'll still cook the keto I have always been cooking, and maybe he'll not eat chips and popcorn and Hawaiian Punch.

Yay!!! And he said we could do some fasts too, so that would be interesting!

Karen "KD"





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5/13/18 7:31 P

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thats what i do. too, Alana. Listen to my body. if i'm hungry i eat. if i'm not i dont....so sometimes i do IF without thinking about it...as you all know i'm not a big fan..i know some swear by it though!

Holly
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ENCHANTEDALANA's Photo ENCHANTEDALANA Posts: 821
5/13/18 5:34 P

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I'm learning to listen to my gut and eat when I'm actually hungry.

If hunger is not the problem, then food is not the solution!

Generally the first meal of the day is around noon - more or less a snack because I want to eat my main meal with my honey at dinnertime.

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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,884
5/12/18 9:39 A

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Catching up on posts:

My first 24 hour IF went well.
I had a very good breakfast to fill me on Friday morning.
I went all day with water, seltzer ,green tea and later that night I felt I needed something so I had a few cups of chicken broth. (not sure if that is considered breaking the fast?)
The Saturday morning I broke my fast with a good breakfast.

It wasn't as difficult as I expected. But I think I will do future IF from 7AM breakfast to 7PM dinner. That would be an IF of 12 hours.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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4/30/18 4:17 P

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And obviously you don't want to research anything you aren't into. did you go look at what I was talking about, and the studies done on it?

I HAVE researched fasting. I've done fasting. My only point is that it isn't for everyone, it isn't the be all and end all. I have zero objections to it...but i don't think its the "only way to go" and I think people need to know there are choices.
You like it, that's great! If it works for you,and you enjoy it, that's great! but it is not the only way. I watch and read everything i can get my hands onto. i read Dr Fung's book. Its actually part of my extensive keto library. I've watched his videos. Done IF myself, for 6 months.,..and wasn't successful with it. And I know many others that weren't successful with it, also. I stated that 2 of my coaches use occasional IF and longer term fasting, but don't require it of their clients.
My other point is that people don't have to starve to be successful. As I said, the work being done on staying at TDEE is done ONLY with eating strict keto. Of course if you eat sugar, and more carbs, which isn't acceptable on keto, all bets are off. And noone is suggesting that people eat 5k cals a day, just that they are proving you CAN and you can still lose weight, which does debunk the CICO train of thought.
We get new team members every day here, some brand new to keto. We want them to get good information, and your info IS good, it just isn't the only way. Some people don't like even the suggestion of fasting, for others, they do.
Please don't make more out of what i'm posting than what it is...simply giving people information to make an informed choice, and knowing that if one way isn't appealing, there may be another way, using the same way of eating, that might be more comfortable for them. I believe we are all looking for the true benefits of keto..better health.

Holly
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So you are into this thing you are into. Did you view the many videos I linked to? I am not reading "I watched..." or even "I have seen". So it appears that you are deeply embedded in what you do and, while you are suggesting that everyone "study everything" I see no evidence that you are doing so.

The very fact that this guy says you can't "starve your body and lose weight" loses me. That is a nonsense statement. Of course you can. TONS of people are doing so every day. YOU don't want to. I got that.

You were doing something that wasn't working. I got it. What you are doing now works for you. I got that.

BTW the fact that people eat a high calorie diet and don't gain doesn't say anything whatsoever about CICO. It simply proves the body is adapting. Eat 5000 calories of pure sugar and see what happens. You will see enormous weight gain. So you have proved that the body treats different macros differently. If I'm not mistaken I stated that directly.

I don't know why you are fixated on this CICO thing.

Peace sister. Do what works for you.

Edited by: JWCOLBY at: 4/30/2018 (14:12)
jwc

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I do agree with doing lots of research. The problem is, everyone is looking for something different, and something to corroberate what they are saying.
I suggest taking a look at ALL ways. Right now, if i'm not mistaken, Jack McAnespy is doing yet another 30 day 5000 cal a day to disprove CICO. hes done it before. A girl named Erin does it also. I know they are probably done at this point, she has lost, and i believe he stayed the same. I could be mistaken, but i know noone gained what most dietitians would say you will gain eating 5000 cal. Erin is small..130-140 pounds, and Jack is at his goal weight..so neither would be losing due to being overweight. Jack is in to strength training, I dont believe Erin is.
Point is, they are both strict keto. THATS where the difference comes in. I find Jacks studies on autophagy without fasting to be pretty fascinating.
As i said, i did IF..I only ate from 1-2 pm until 6 pm daily, 2 distinct meals. kept my cals down to around 1200..and i gained or stalled. Wasnt until I hired Jack and he said you are starving yourself, you cant expect a car to run on no gas, how do you expect your body to? and I started eating 1800-2300 a day that I started losing again. and even more when i added breakfast back in.
My point is..not every thing is going to work for every one. If fasting works for you, and you enjoy not eating, thats great...I wish it worked for me, because i dislike most keto food. If TDEE works for you, like it does for me, thats great..others will find maybe it doesnt work for them (it takes a few weeks for your body to recognize it doesnt need to hold on to every single calorie because you've been starving it, so you will see an initial gain, then it will start letting go of the weight again.)
And then people like Wanda, who have had a gastric sleeve or bypass maneuver done, who is going to have a whole nother way its needed to be done.
For me, the point is healing. As I have said over and over..i ate what i wanted for 59 years. Now i pay the piper, and eat what i dont enjoy..food is no longer entertainment, delicious, or a social or emotional activity. its fuel. period. others really enjoy keto food..again wish i did!
Do your research. stay keto. if someone is trying to sell you something run. far.
Noone approached me on the coaching, I approached them. EVERYTHING i learned is fully out there, from the same people, for free, I just wanted one on one help.
If you have even one meal not keto, and kick yourself out of ketosis, dont expect to have the same results you would have if you were following the guidelines. your body has to get rid of the offending components before it can get back to work.
James has given us reasons why alcohol might slow your loss....but the thing is, its YOUR choice. Yes, some alcohol is compatible with keto, but your body has to get rid of it before it can work on what you already have in there. Its your choice, just as fasting, or not fasting, is your choice. Theres not a good or a bad or a must or mustn't..just a choice.

Holly
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4/30/18 9:33 A

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A fasting mimicking diet was created by Dr Valter Longo,who for decades has researched why certain populations around the world live longer, and do so healthy. The REASON he created the diet is that severe calorie restriction is HARD for the majority of people And yet even small periods doing so are extremely important from a "body healing" perspective.

Dr Longo "wants" people to do extreme calorie restriction for short bursts periodically. His research and the research of others in the field indicate that doing this "resets" the body's auto-immune system. BUT getting this benefit requires something like 5 days in a fasted state. Again this is HARD for most of us, me included.

Since he lives in the laboratory, and he does this anyways, he used his unique position to develop a diet which "mimics" fasting. The idea being that if you could eat something, you can trick your brain into being satisfied while tricking your body into thinking that you never broke your fast, and continuing the good stuff going on in a deep fasted state.

He actually published the diet in Italy, his native country, and promptly got the establishment (doctors and lawyers) sending him nasty threatening letters. "You can't tell people how to make their own medicine."

So he created a packaged meal system that you can just buy to do this thing called the fasting mimicking diet. The proceeds go to his clinic (the university of California IIRC) to fund continuing research.

You might notice that I am not telling you what the fasting mimicking diet consists of. The reason is simply that I have not actually run across (yet) the ACTUAL "whatever it was he published in Italian", not that I could read Italian even if I did. Plus I do not want to be accused of pushing something. I am here for me, but if I can help you with your journey I will do that.

I have run across some people claiming that they know what it is and what to do. It turns out that the macro ratios and gross calorie counts are the key. And the gross calorie counts are very low. Being in Ketosis AND holding your gross calories down to this very low level seem to be the key.

So that is what I do to use a "fasting Mimicking Diet". I can eat "stuff", but I try to hold my calories down below 600 daily calories if I need to eat, and whatever I eat needs to be "Keto". I do things like a Keto Bomb salad - leafy green vegies with an avo, and a handful of walnuts. Perhaps a little hard cheese. And lots of Avo oil / olive oil and apple cider vinegar dressing. High fat, low carb, low protein. LOW calories. Total for the day well below 800 calories.

Or, I will sometimes simply eat two eggs every 12 hours. Each egg is 80 calories, .5 carb, 5 grams protein and 6 grams fat plus a TON of micronutrients. Multiply by 4 (total eggs in that day, with nothing else on the menu) and the macro nutrients appear to meet the requirements for Dr Longs's diet.

Remember that the whole point of the diet is NOT that his diet is magic, a total water fast is preferred (and he says so). The point is that at the beginning of the fast the brain is programmed to eat, usually at specific times during the day, because that is what you have done for all these years. NOT because that is a REQUIREMENT for the human body, it is all PSYCHOLOGICAL. So feed the psychological stuff while still keeping the body fasted.

I have a somewhat unique position as a truck driver where I can research on Youtube and listen to these guys who are the researchers in nutrition. So I do. I recommend that anyone who wants to do this stuff to do their own research. The truth is that the body's biochemistry is way complex and very precise. It is adapted to whatever food you throw at it.

It will always do the same thing with the same macronutrient, but the end result can be different depending on the QUANTITIES of each macronutrient given to the body. Give the body a little protein, it will use the entire thing to repair the muscles. Give it a lot and it will break down the excess into glucose and store it as fat, triggering insulin along the way. Give the body fats and it will... Give the body REFINED CARBS and it will... Give the body FRUCTOSE and it will...

It will ALWAYS do the same thing initially with each type of nutrient but quantities matter.

And total calories matter. You can poo poo CICO all you want but if you give the body ZERO calories (a water fast) it does different things than if you give it 1500 calories, which will be different than if you give it 5000 calories. VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

For me, it took listening to many different people deep in the bowels of the lab, telling me what they found, to really appreciate how wonderful and adaptable my body is. I poisoned it for 60 years, BUT it is still capable of repairing itself (autophagy) IF I LET IT.

Intermittent fasting is ALMOST required to get to autophagy. It can be done with a keto diet, but not a high calorie keto diet (from my reading of the situation). Additionally a high calorie keto diet is very hard to do right. A fast is dead simple (not easy) to do right.

www.perfectketo.com/fasting-
mimicking-
diet-and-how-to-do-it/


Edited by: JWCOLBY at: 4/30/2018 (09:44)
jwc

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Listen to your children's plans and get a few chuckles of your own.


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4/30/18 7:21 A

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So JW what do you eat when you are doing the fasting mimicking? Can you give an example of a perfect day?

I do IF a lot - keto too. But have not done extended fasts because of the social aspect of eating with my husband at night. Since he eats slightly different than I do, if I were to eat "something" that might work for me.

How was your IF Kathleen?


Karen "KD"





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4/27/18 11:38 A

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Welcome Kathleen.

That looks like a great keto meal. Are you already on a ketogenic diet? Low carb diet? You are going for a "1 meal a day" fast?

IF is easier if you start from a fat adapted state. I'm just really chiming in to welcome you to the fold.

I have been doing If since about 2014. I didn't really understand much about ketosis and the keto diet. I am now on a keto diet full time, and doing 18 / 6 or 23/ 1 fasting all the time. I have done 48h and 72 hour water only fasts however just a few weeks ago I learned about something called a fasting mimicking diet. Knowing about that makes staying in deep ketosis much easier and I did a 10 day fast where if I ate it was a fasting mimicking meal.

Cool stuff. So welcome, and keep posting. We love to know what other people are doing.



jwc

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Listen to your children's plans and get a few chuckles of your own.


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4/27/18 9:18 A

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Today is my first try at IF, Friday breakfast to Saturday breakfast.

Had a good breakfast:
2 scrambled egg w HWC & Serrano pepper
1/2 avocado
coffee with HWC.



Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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Teresa I dont know whats recommended with fasting, since i dont do it. i do take a multivit daily, and magnesium citrate.
PLEASE please be careful with potassium!! NOONE should be taking it without a docs recommendation, based on your blood levels. Too much is just as dangerous as too little. Up to RDA is fine, but more than that you need a medical professional to tell you.
I do take potassium, prescription. My blood is tested every three months to be sure i'm not getting too much. It can wreak havoc with your heart rhythm..and i speak from experience. 5..FIVE ICU stays due to potassium levels messing with my heart.
People are quick to jump on the vitamin bandwagon, but anything in excess isnt good.
I would urge you to speak with your medical professional about it....and mention any others you are taking. Pharmacists are also good to ask this advice of.



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4/26/18 7:35 A

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TERESA I don't know the science, but I supplement with Magnesium, Serrapeptase, Potassium, Vitamin D (plus try and go outside for 10+ minutes a day) and a multi-vitamin. Also fish oil. I do not take pills well, but have a daily pack of all of those which takes me a few days to get down, so probably don't take enough.

For sure - the Magnesium every day. Two 400 mg with meals. Helps me be regular and also no leg cramps. Also Serrapeptase - it's anti-inflammatory. But the others, probably every other day just to get them in there.



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NightSky and JW, it is interesting to read of your successes and strategies! I am in my fourth week of eating Ketogenically. (Got a deep mauve on my SmackFat stick this morning!) I am wondering about supplements? Postassium and magnesium are what I am taking now, as well as fish oil.... Do you guys take a multi-vitamin? I am eating cheese, several days a week... But am wondering if I am getting enough of what I need, like calcium, and other trace minerals since I am acting eating limited amounts of vegetables. I don't want to simply have expensive urine.... But am not sure of what I need and what products would truly be absorbed by my body. What products are truly bioavailable when consumed? Thoughts?

Edited by: TERESA6262 at: 4/26/2018 (05:52)
Teresa \o/


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4/25/18 5:20 P

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I now do extended fasting which (for me) really ramps up my weight loss. Tbh it sounds impossible to water fast and not lose weight. I discovered something called fasting mimicking diet where I can eat hundreds of calories and stay in autophagy. The key is to consume hard ketogenic stuff but hold the calories down to 300 - 600 per day. It keeps me in ketosis and I lose about 2 pounds a week. I have been fasting for 8 days now using this strategy.

It sounds like you have your program wired so do what works

jwc

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Listen to your children's plans and get a few chuckles of your own.


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i dont measure blood glucose with a meter. I get an A1C every 3 months and its around 4.8. Urine strips are pretty useless once you are in ketosis,,your body is burning ketones and not spilling them into your urine, so they arent a good measure. I use a breath meter and am deep into ketosis always..no problems there.

My calories are between 1500 and 1800 a day. a bit less then my TDEE of 2100, but I just have a difficult time eating that much, so I stop when i feel satisfied. (I would probably lose better if i stuck with TDEE but my belly comfort is more important to me)
Trust me..i've had 3 different coaches. had conversations with Jimmy Moore on fasting. it just for some reason doesnt work for me, and i'm not the only one that has the problem. I think mine may be dairy, but i'm not willing to give up cheese, cream and butter, so i'm going to have to be slower, and thats ok. I'm so close to my goal, if i never lost another ounce i'd be fine. I find it very interesting to see how peoples bodies differ. I have friends that can eat all the carbs they want, yet they are thin, healthy, no problems. I eat a little and i blow up like a balloon. Genetics play a huge part. I research constantly. I stick to what is considered true keto..not the "eat what you want if it doesnt effect you" or the "if it fits your macros" mentality. They arent keto no matter what anyone tries to fool themselves into thinking. but i ALWAYS say..if it works for you and you are happy fine..just please dont tell everyone else thats the way to do it when it doesnt fit into the protocol.
I started keto to lose weight. Then it shifted, and i'm doing it because i feel better, my bloodwork is PERFECT, my Lyme symptoms are better...Weight loss at this point is just a happy side effect. I am on this for life..this is my diet forever now. I research daily. Follow the new studies and modify when they are proven. I look at the different ways of thinking from the experts i feel are doing their best to help everyone, not just make a fast buck.
What I do is most likely too strict for most. I cant tell you the number of people i've gotten started on keto..I will be teaching a class in the fall for adult ed on basics and keto cooking. My doc now recommends it to her patients after seeing my success--and the ones that are willing to change are doing fantastic. I started October 29, 2016. never looked back. In a year and some months i only went off 3 times..planned and I planned my food..so what i call going off was as close to keto as possible under the circumstances. I'm committed, totally.
And you should know..LOL i own a bakery. yeah. mostly wedding and celebration cakes but all baked items. I have a keto line and ship all over..even out of the country, keto has gotten so well known. Its imperative I know the updated stuff as i dont want to be giving my customers something not totally in the guidelines!
anyhow..you are doing well too..and keep doing what works for you!! I truly wish fasting worked for me..i find it very easy to do, and hoped it would help me. I am never hungry until i eat (isnt that strange!!) and have gone days without even thinking about eating when the bakery gets so busy during wedding season. so for me it would be an easy thing..IF it worked. Oh, well!!!

Holly
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4/25/18 2:50 A

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So your eating window was 5 hours from 1pm to 6pm? Your diet sounds keto. Do you measure blood glucose with a meter? Ketones with urine strips? Both are good metrics for what the body is doing.

Dr Fung is all about "whatever works for you". If opening the eating window allows you to continue losing weight then there is certainly nothing wrong with that. The entire point of fasting and a keto diet is to make the body burn fat, YOUR fat. It is possible to eat too much of course which will stop weight loss even being in ketosis.

I'm determined to make this work for me and I sense your determination as well. You've come a long way and as long as you stay focused you will succeed in reaching your ultimate goal.

Edited by: JWCOLBY at: 4/25/2018 (03:34)
jwc

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Thanks! I’m well under 20 total carbs a day, (usually under 10) and I stay around 50 grams of protein. I’ve worked with 3 different keto coaches..
I was doing IF from 6 pm till 1 pm the following day, every day. I was gaining or maintaining. Once I added breakfast back in I started losing again. Same cals and all, just split my meals. If you have any ideas on why or what I could do would love to hear them. I only have around 30 pounds to go, but after I lost the first 132 I’m kind of stuck.

Holly
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NightSkyStar did you troubleshoot the experience? Do you want to? Keto and IF are not rocket science but they are specific. For example many people can't get into ketosis until they drop their carbs below 20 AND lower their protein. I didn't know that protein could kick me out of ketosis if I ate too much. The bottom line is that keto doesn't happen in the presence of blood glucose.

We can probably help if you want help.

jwc

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really glad it works for you both..sure wish it did for me!! i found it very easy and i was disappointed when i gained doing it.

Holly
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Intermittent fasting is keto on steroids. I do it and have done so a long time. Actually I do both, I fast AND I eat Keto when I feed.

Down 60 lbs and counting.

jwc

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Listen to your children's plans and get a few chuckles of your own.


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4/22/18 8:49 A

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IF works for me! After listening to Jason Fungs book The Obesity Code on Audible, I have reached more success and CONTENTMENT in my eating style than I have ever had. I am down 29 lbs, have more energy, and best of all I have HOPE for success long term. The lack of cravings and hunger I have is so encouraging. Avocados are my go-to snack and condiment! Tomorrow starts my third week of focusing on ketogenic efforts where as I had been doing a low carb/ whole foods approach. I am simply tightening up on the kinds of veggies I am eating. Best of luck to you all!

Teresa \o/


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Edited by: STRNGNGRNDED at: 3/28/2018 (16:24)
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Yay! It's helping me move past those intrusive thoughts you speak of. My health focus reason, for now, is to help erase insulin resistance symptoms and shift down my setpoint. It's easier for me to simply turn off the choice for eating for extended periods than try to eat less and fight the spike cravings, even if for keto foods.

Edited by: LJSHRINKS at: 3/27/2018 (08:22)
*Leia from WA

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Yay!

Kathleen is in Florida--Eastern time

Goal date December 25th, 2019 ******reset again! 12/13/2018

GIVING MYSELF 1 YEAR TO GET HEALTHY! FAILED SO MANY TIMES ;-(


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I personally like IF. I am not hungry in the morning, go to work (I work a 4 hour day) and when I am coming home, I am usually getting hungry. That translates into an 18 hour fast. Then I eat, something small, and usually am ready to eat again when my husband comes home at 5-6 pm. I try not to eat after dinner at all. 99% of the time I don't.

I am listening to my hungry/not hungry signals, and mostly listen well. Sometimes I just WANT something to eat, whether or not I'm hungry. That is just mental, and I have to push through it. Sometimes I can, mostly these days, and once in awhile I can't. One guy in another Spark forum said he ate a chocolate bar (or two) some days the first 6 months he did keto, and finally the desire for it abated. I'm not a chocolate freak, but something sweet beckons. Luckily I have almost nothing sweet in the house except chocolate chip frozen cookie balls. My husband eats those. I don't like them, so I'm safe. I WISH I had something, but I'm too lazy to go get it. So the urge is decreasing, but still there.

Karen "KD"





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thats how i do it Alana..just listen to my body.
and, seriously, i suggest you pick ONE person you respect and follow that. you will drive yourself nuts with all the different opinions out there. There was a big burst about something-- i think autophagy? saying you could prevent skin sag if you fasted. Bull. you put 300 pounds in bag designed to hold 150 pounds,,,for a long time, there is NOTHING thats going to shrink it back to where it would have been. people do this fascia blasting and literally are hurting themselves..black and blue..i showed it to my doc...almost bought into it..she said you do that..find another doc. in 2 seconds she was online finding so many complaints and posts of permanent injury from it...
point is, nothing is totally right for everyone. some people can do things that harm others. i dont want to chance the health i've regained on anything iffy....the experts i follow say fast if you want but do research and do it correctly if you are going to. (i'm talking straight fasting for more than 12 hours) if you arent hungry there is no need to stuff yourself..if you are there is no need to starve yourself. My opinion only..you will find many that agree with me and just as many that disagree! and everyone has their reasons..just be sure they are valid and look up what the downside is to what you would like to try.

Holly
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BYv
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p;list=WL&index=6


Another youtube vid... Dr Caryn Zinn (based in Aukland, New Zealand - and has a doctorate in weight loss of all things!!) speaks at Low Carb Down Under in October 2017 on intermittent fasting and raises a whole bunch of points. She seems very approachable and is a great teacher (we all learn differently). She is a dietitian and is co-author of 'What the Fat?' by Grant Schofield, Dr Caryn Zinn & Craig Roger. The channel 'Low Carb Down Under'. She also has a website: www.carynzinn.com/

Biltong is just like beef jerky but cut a little thicker - comes up in the vid.

I have gone from having intrusive thoughts of food throughout my day and eating breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner with desert and another snack to: midafternoon meal, light dinner maybe desert maybe not. The end!! I listen to my body and try to determine whether I'm hungry just because the clock says it's time to eat or if I'm actually hungry. Most of the time I listen but when I get off track I am learning not to beat myself up about it.

How about you??

 Pounds lost: 3.0 
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