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LIEDORA's Photo LIEDORA SparkPoints: (17,178)
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11/14/14 1:19 A

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Thanks everyone for your responses.

Yes, bloodwork was done beforehand, as we have him on the Senior Wellness Plan. The vet said to take him back in the am if he's not improving any by then. Since about 5pm he's started drinking small amounts (phew), but is still not peckish. I have to admit that he rather reminds me of myself after this type of treatment. He's been out a couple of times, but quickly back in as it is so cold here.

He's currently wrapped up on his bed in a blanket snoring away. I'll let you know how he is tomorrow.

Thanks again for being here group, none of my friends are pet owneers so of course they all think I'm nuts with my concern.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
11/14/14 12:06 A

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Kathy,
MDR-1 is only one of the possible issues. I'm not all that familiar with herding dogs, having owned only a few of them. I do agree that isoflurane is probably the safest of anesthetics, in part because it's gas and can be stopped quickly. The problem is that without anything else (sedative) the gas alone is quite stressful for most dogs and intubating can only happen once the dog is out so initially a face mask needs to be used. I don't know a good way around that. What does your vet use?
From the reading I've done I believe that a moderate dose of morphine works for a lot of dogs as a pre-anaesthetic and I wish it was more commonly used. Acepromazine seems to be fairly safe as well but may require a lower dose for MDR-1 dogs.
Here is a good article on canine and feline anesthesia agents and use:


instruction.cvhs.okstate.edu
/vmed5412/
pdf/22Canine-FelineAnesthesi
a.pdf


Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 11/14/2014 (00:12)
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KATHYSCOLLIES's Photo KATHYSCOLLIES Posts: 32,434
11/13/14 10:46 P

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Birgit, I presume you are referring to the MDR-1 issue that is a problem with more and more breeds these days - even with the mixed breeds as well as the purebreds?

Generally speaking, most vets were always taught that dogs with one or more white feet could be very sensitive to certain drugs / types of anesthesia, and so should not use them with those dogs. Having said that, not all white footed dogs have any issues to any of the drugs on the MDR-1 (Multiple drug resistance) list.

Isoflorin is the only anesthetic I will allow to be used on any of our dogs, no matter their gender, age, or MDR-1 status. It is considered to be safe for any age - young puppies or old geezers.

It's great to hear that your vet is keeping in close contact with you - not all of them do that. Hope your furball is up and running quickly!

As for blood tests done as a pre - op measure, I always have that done unless the dog has had very recent blood work done, especially as they start aging.

Once one of our guys hits 7 years of age, I have a Senior Wellness Blood Panel Profile done at least every other year just as a precautionary measure.

Kathy
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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
11/13/14 8:27 P

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As far as the blood work pre-op, something that would always happen for people of course, there are two sides to it. In young dogs it depends a lot on the breed and their general health what the chances are that there are problems with anesthesia. The risk is far higher the older the dog gets when compromised organ function, in particular liver and kidney and heart, is more likely. In part more and more vets do pre-op blood work to protect themselves against liability if something goes wrong. This is understandable given how many people sue them for a bad outcome in this country. My own vet, who is older herself, asks people if they want pre-op bloodwork but does not require it. The price for procedures is accorddingly lower by about 100 dollars for a lot of things. They ask clients to sign a form where they indicate their wishes. With older dogs or high-risk dogs they highly recommend bloodwork.
The other question is what the anesthesia is for. For a life-saving procedure the risk may be worth it (bloat surgery etc.), a routine dental may be possible (although more difficult) without full anesthesia, some procedures may not be worth it for high-risk patients (spay/neuter for senior dogs that are past re-productive years).
Do your research, ask lots of questions and declare your preferences to your vet.

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 11/13/2014 (20:28)
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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,986
11/13/14 8:04 P

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Hope your pup will be up and around and back to his happy self soon.

That bloodwork is usually done everywhere, I think, but I know that I when I was getting info on costs for pulling a tooth one of the clinics doesn't do bloodwork on dog under age 7. That started me worrying, so I just went back to my normal vet. Turned out she isn't bothered by the tooth, fortunately, but I won't go somewhere they won't do the bloodwork or know the breed since there have been problems with the ACDs and anesthesia.

Edited by: FANCYQTR at: 11/13/2014 (20:05)

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GINA180847's Photo GINA180847 Posts: 8,734
11/13/14 5:18 P

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I hope he is better very soon. Otto(mix) and Chica (poodle mix) and I wish him a speedy recovery.

"The world is one country and mankind its citizens" one of the many truths spoken by Baha'u'llah and "Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul."


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TWEETYKC00's Photo TWEETYKC00 Posts: 142,293
11/13/14 4:28 P

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My pup did take about a day to be back to normal after surgery, but she was very groggy the day she came home. I would think by the next day your pup should be feeling better.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
11/13/14 4:24 P

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I would think that after 24 hours the anesthesia should have worn off. What breed is your puppy? Some breeds, i.e sighthounds and some herding dogs, are so sensitive to some types of anesthesia that they should not be treated with them as there are alternatives. Here is some more info which you can print off for your vet if necessary.
www.cliniciansbrief.com/sites/defaul
t/
files/Breed-Specific-Anesthesia.pdf


The problem is that not all veterinarians are familiar with this type of info. If in doubt get a second opinion (fast). Body fat % plays a role even irrespective of breed.

Best wishes for your pup

Birgit

PS Make sure that the anasthesia used and the reaction to them become part of your pups permanent medical record so that other drugs are used in the future if anasthesia is necessary.

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 11/13/2014 (16:30)
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RYELEWIS's Photo RYELEWIS SparkPoints: (329,643)
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11/13/14 3:31 P

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Did your vet do blood work on your pup before surgery? You say your 14 year old bounced back quickly and most vets will not do surgery on an older dog without the proper blood work being done to make sure the dog can handle the anesthesia. Don't know what your vet did as far as blood work to make sure the pup could handle the anesthesia.

NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (575,031)
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11/13/14 3:15 P

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I think they send them home way too early...but its how it is. Just keep him quiet and watch him. shaking off anesthesia is difficult for some..i'm sure he will come around soon. Good of your vet to check in!!
I can tell you...i had 2 feral kittens fixed at the same time...the little girl was up walking around and drinking 20 mins after i got them home..the little boy didnt move for the entire afternoon...i was very worried about him..and when he did wake up he couldnt walk and just yowled...when he finally started walking he did the drunk thing.
neutering is much quicker and milder than spaying but she was 200% better than he was...go figure!!

Holly
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LIEDORA's Photo LIEDORA SparkPoints: (17,178)
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11/13/14 3:11 P

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I'm in a bit of a quandary as to what to do with this one. Our other dog was up and bouncing around a couple of hours after surgery, and at the ripe old age of 14, but my remaining pup is not as resilient; he is still wandering around like a drunk and sleeping heavily. The vet is being great and checking in every couple of hours, but it still doesn't mean I'm not worrying. Has anyone else been in this situation with one of their pups?

"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have."
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"There is no try, only do." ~ Yoda

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