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8/19/19 4:33 A

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I dropped my pill container in the bathroom sink this morning. The Sat and Sunday tablets got wet and immediately melted. This got me to thinking. The original Armour did not melt, break or cut easily and reason why some patients crushed or put pill under their tongue.

Armour was sold to a new company a few years ago. They reformulated it. New fillers( inactive ingredients) replaced original fillers. This new formula melts fast and falls apart when patient tries to cut tablet. A lot of Armour patients complained that reformulated Armour does not work as well as the original and many switched to NP, etc.

I remember reading that thyroid and other meds need substances in the digestive tract for activation. When we place tablet under the tongue, it bypasses the digestive tract and goes straight into the bloodstream. A doctor told me this.

So, I wonder if placing Armour under the tongue or crushing it causes it to work faster. My other thought is the faster this medication works, the faster the body uses up T-3. T-3 is only effective for three hours after swallowing the medication.

Food for thought.

Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/17/19 5:00 P

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Jane...The type of thyroid medication you take can be taken before labs. Consistency is important when comparing lab and test results. I didn't know this until a doctor told me. I had mamo done at different facilities and couldn't be compared. I make sure to stick with same facilities when I have tests done that need to be compared.

I was told by doctor and lab not to take any medication or water before AIC , cholesterol, adrenal, etc testing. The type of medication I take ( Armour) can't be taken before labs..

Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/17/19 5:36 A

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I get my labs done first thing in the morning after taking my thyroid med. The nurses and doctors do not consider taking my med with a cup of water as breaking my fast. I think the bottom line is being consistent about how your blood is drawn.

Jane



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8/17/19 2:58 A

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Kitten,

Since you ate before last hypo test, I suggest doing the same for this one. The only way to compare test results is use same lab and to do the same thing you did for last test.

I have to fast for labs since A1C, cholesterol, etc are fasting tests. I felt faint once before labs, ate something and my fasting tests were high. My endo was going to prescribe medication to lower fasting results until I explained I ate before tests.

I have swollen ankles all the time. My endo said it is thyroid related, but didn't elaborate. Soaking in Epsom salt bath decreases water retention. I use bath when I am swollen all over.
Walking and swimming in pool eliminates my ankle swelling. I read pool exercise is like wearing compression socks/stockings. Compression hose made my ankles and legs swell more. Pool exercises eliminates my swelling. So, I stick with pool exercises.



Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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MTN_KITTEN's Photo MTN_KITTEN SparkPoints: (176,550)
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8/16/19 1:22 P

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I have always fasted for blood draws coz I was getting allllll the other annual stuff at the same time. Only the last hypo labs were on a full tummy. I’m showing up the end of the month … fasting coz that’s my norm.

I also use pink salt … I like the crunch.

Water retention has been an issue for me … forever!!! Any tricks out there … other than meds???

What works for one … doesn’t work for another. BUT … us sharing our trails and tribulations sure helps … me.



Cat

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8/15/19 3:46 A

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MT Kitten,

I am glad you found a good doctor. Total T3 and 4 isn't good. I am happy you were able to get Free T3 and 4 and RT3. Free Ts shows how much thyroid medication is circulating in the bloodstream. RT3 shows how much thyroid medication is getting into the cells, where it needs to be for you to feel good.

The theory behind eating before labs is that eating will show how well your thyroid ( metabolism) works at burning calories. I did fasting and non fasting thyroid tests before taking medication and my levels were better after eating. The problem with eating is my endo lowered my medication, which lead to me experiencing terrible hypo symptoms. I suggest you continue doing labs the way you have in the past. If you ate before labs in the past, do that now. If you fasted in the past, do that now. No medication before test since T3 is active for several hours after taking medication and your T3 level will be high. I took medication once before labs and my T3 level was so high it was off the chart. Endos get nervous about high T3 since it can lead to heart attack.

Good to hear that moving multi to bedtime works for you. Iodine in salt is very little due to air and packaging. I use pink salt.

I am a patient that urinates too much. Doctor measured my urine. It showed I eliminate 50 times more salt than a normal person. She tested my renin and aldosterone afterwards and levels were close to zero. The two low hormones are reason my bp is low and I urinate a lot. I drink three (24 oz) bottles of water daily plus herbal tea and dehydrated even when i take medication that is suppose to raise these hormones and keep water in body. I have small kidney stone too.

My labs showed extreme hypo when I crushed or took Armour sublingually. So hypo, my doctor questioned if I was taking medication. I knew something was wrong since I was extremely exhausted, breathless, etc. walking to the bathroom. It took almost a year with constant med changes for my levels to return to normal. I wanted to kick myself for trying those methods.





Edited by: APPEALSTOME at: 8/15/2019 (03:53)
Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/15/19 3:20 A

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Hippiegurl,

Thanks for the information. I am glad the method you follow works for you.

I can't take a combo med at night since it causes insomnia. I was dx'd 50+ years ago and don't have thyroid either. Specialist said thyroid dissolves from taking medication for a long time.

I was given script for NP thyroid. Some claim NP is better since it doesn't contain the same fillers as Armour. NP is not available here. When a patient switches a brand ( Armour to NP) they usually require a higher dose that works same as discontinued medication. I belong to several fb thyroid groups and other patients are having problems getting NP. NP lab moved, and not all strengths are available.

My labs are done first thing in the morning since one test has to be done no later than 9:30 am. I had thyroid labs done in afternoon before needing the am test and my TSH level was the same as when I had done in the morning.

Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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HIPPIEGURL's Photo HIPPIEGURL Posts: 5,062
8/14/19 8:06 P

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I take NP Thyroid, which is like the original Armour formulation...works better for me. I take it crushed sublingually in the middle of the night, awat from meds, vitamins, calcium products etc. Had an appt with my endo last week and my numbers are great! My dose is 180 mg. I've had Hashimoto's so long my thyroid doesn't function anymore.
As for bloodwork, anyone taking biotin should abstain for at least 2-3 days prior to bloodwork, or it can skew results. Also get your blood drawn as earle in the day as possible, as your TSH rises throughout the day.(advice per my endo)

Sandy



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You are successful the moment you start moving toward a worthwhile goal.
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8/14/19 7:52 P

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Jane – WhooHoo … on your doc appointment and reduction in meds. As a long standing bladder / kidney patient myself … yuck pooh on the polyps / abrasions. Some folks with urinary issues pee to often … not me. I was locked up tight. Thus the flush of 2+ quarts of clear water daily … period!!! No salt … ummm and of course I didn’t get in enough iodine. That and a family history of hypothyroidism ... I also struggle with pernicious anemia … lucky ME.

New doc does prescribe Armour Thyroid, whew … which works for me. But I’m concerned about where this is gonna go. Made arrangements today for blood draw … he wants TSH, Total T4 and T3. I want FREE T4 and FREE T3 with RT3 (Reverse T3). There seemed to be some … hesitance but agreed upon. So, we will see.

AND no fasting needed for labs. Hmmm???

I moved my multi to bedtime when I take my calcium and magnesium. THANKS.

Hubby is also a hypothyroidism patient. Go figure. Could be the years and years with no or little iodine coz I don’t use regular salt for anything. Or his traumatic brain injury … that rewired all kinds of things. His doc says test can be done on a full tummy. Hmmm???

Tee – huh??? Crushed and sublingually administered Armour showed no medication??? What does that mean???



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8/14/19 2:37 A

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Jane...Good new about lowering Metformin. I hope your other appointments go well.

I received two emails last week that my endo appointment was changed to 9/25 and 9/27. I had to phone office to find out which day I was seeing endo since I need to schedule labs a week b4 appointment so we can discuss results.

I ran into two thyroid patients at the gym yesterday that aren't feeling well. Both take the same (old) bp medication. My endo said this bp med interferes with thyroid test results and suggested changing to different bp medication. One patient, a retired nurse, read up on the old bp med. It does interfere with thyroid results. Live and learn.

I read a lot of books and studies about my conditions. Then, discuss what I read with my doctors. My endo told me Biotin interferes with thyroid. I received email about the study two days later. My multi contains biotin and another reason I take multi 4 hours after thyroid medication.



Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/13/19 4:42 A

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The doctor appointment went well. Actually saw the nurse practitioner. She did lower the METFORMIN that was prescribed last time but did not take me off. My glucose has dropped but not low enough yet. I do not go back until November after I see the urologist. If no more polyps or abrasions in the bladder then things are good.
I see my primary doctor in September so things are covered.

Kitten, taking your vitamins soon after taking your thyroid meds may not be a good idea. I suggest you wait until your noon meal at least.

Tee your ideas and suggestions are thought provoking.

Jane



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8/13/19 3:15 A

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Jane...Diabetes is very much linked to thyroid. That is why endos specialize in diabetes too. I hope your appointment went well.

Mtn Kitten...Good to read you found a new doctor. I hope he/she is good. A doctor that works with patient is a plus. Your water intake good. Great that you started walking too.

My endo does TSH, Free T 3 and 4. CBC, A1C, cholesterol, D3, cortisol, renin, aldosterone and kidney function, etc tests.

To answer your questions:

No Armour or food, caffeine before thyroid test. Some water is okay.

Splitting dose made a big difference for me and many other thyroid patients. Some patients take small dose of Armour 3-4 times daily. I take it twice daily (upon waking and 11 am). I wait 4 hours before taking second dose since T3 in medication is active for 3 hours. I don't eat before taking second dose. I wait an hour to eat after taking Armour since this works best for me.

I swallow Armour whole. I tried crushed and under tongue method and my labs showed no medication. Both methods messed me up and took a year to get back on correct med dose.

It is okay to take D3, C and Brazil nuts with breakfast an hour after taking Armour. Shouldn't take multivitamin for 4 hours after taking Armour. All multivitamins contain calcium and iron which aren't supposed to be taken until 4 hours after taking Armour since they interfere with absorption. I take multi in afternoon. I stopped putting spinach in my veggie omelet bc it contains calcium and iron. I don't consume milk products with breakfast either.

Selenium helps with conversion of T4 into T3, not zinc. Zinc along with D3 improves immunity. Think colds, flu, etc. You may want to look at your multivitamin ingredients. Mine contains selenium. I eat other foods that contain selenium throughout the day like sunflower seeds, sunflower nut butter, mushrooms, eggs, etc. Here is list of selenium foods:

www.healthbeckon.com/seleniu
m-rich-foo
ds/


I don't take a calcium supplement since my multi contains (500mg). Cardiologist here advised not taking calcium supplement since it clogged arteries. I get calcium from green veggies and nuts. My calcium level is near the top. Every doctor I follow recommends getting vitamins from food instead of supplements. Vitamin tablets are only meant to supplement deficiencies.

High RT3 means you are not converting inactive T4 to active T3 called pooling. My level was low.

Adrenal fatigue is difficult to dx. AF means your body is stressed from things like exercise, diet, lack of sleep, etc. Think you have AF or can't sleep? Eat some starches...A small baked white, red or sweet potato with skin, cup of bean pasta, rice, quinoa, etc. Starches calm the adrenals. A STIM test shows whether you have AF. It took me three years to talk my doctor into doing a STIM test. She didn't think I had AF. I had bad case. I was following high protein diet, swimming daily and staying up late. I took AF medication for a year, which caused weight gain, fatigue, illness and diabetes, etc. Then I read book on reversing condition naturally. I added starches to my diet, slept more, cut back on exercise and technology and no more AF. That was several years ago. My daughter's anxiety was reversed when she added starches to her diet.

Eating fruit and veggies are great. I eat a lot of them too. Starches are important for proper thyroid and adrenal function. I am not talking about eating a loaf of bread, whole pizza or dish of potatoes, rice or pasta. One serving per meal will do. Several books I read showed how starchy foods assist/improve certain organ functions. I was exhausted when I gave up starches. Couldn't lose weight either. My energy and weight loss returned when I added starches to my diet. There is no evidence that AIP diet is beneficial. Studies showed that only about 10 % of the population have gluten problems.

I consulted several dietitians, nutritionists and trainers at my expense. Dietitian/nutritionist told me not to eat oatmeal/cereal/pancakes/waffle for breakfast due to hormones present upon walking. They recommended protein (eggs) , veggie (red pepper and mushroom or squash) and fruit ( banana) for breakfast, which works for me. Trainers told me I wasn't consuming enough calories daily, which was true.

Sorry you have bladder and kidney issues. I hope they resolve.



Edited by: APPEALSTOME at: 8/13/2019 (03:23)
Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/12/19 7:47 P

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Jane – how was your doc appointment today??? I am a 7+ year breast cancer survivor.

And you are sooooooooo right … but everything works together in our bodies. Everything.


AppealsToMe - thanks for sharing. I have gone through periods of educating myself on hypothyroidism which I have had for 20ish years … and just taking a pill and burying my head in the sand.

I’m struggling right now … so, I’m back in “school”.

I go the end of the month for labs … and I have requested Free T4 and Free T3 along with RT3. Everyone has been apprised that what the insurance doesn’t cover … I will … this is not open for discussion. This is a new doc for me … I fired the last one after years of arguing with them and not truly “learning” anything from them. I want a partner to work with that will help me learn more and become healthy. It’s my health after all.

Hmmm … I have heard of splitting your dose during the day … but never heard from anyone who actually does it.

??? You think splitting your dosage does make a difference???

??? When taking second dose, same rules … take on empty tummy and wait 30+ minutes before eating???

I actually crush my meds … after reading from many patients this helps with absorption when using Armour. I just pop them in my mouth, bite into them before swallowing with a full glass of water.

I take a multi with minerals, D3, Vit C and also eat 2-3 Brazil nuts for selenium at breakfast. This is an hourish after taking meds. I just started taking zinc in case I am not converting T4 to T3. And magnesium at bedtime with calcium.

??? Will the RT3 labs indicate whether I am converting correctly???

??? Should labs be drawn on an empty tummy or OK if drawn after eating breakfast??? I do not take my meds the morning of blood draws … taking them afterwards.

??? I have just started reading about adrenal fatigue. How does one know if this is an issue???

Thyroid patients need starches??? I usually get my carbs in veggies and fruits.

I am approaching exercising … walking … slow and steady. But I have just restarted.

I have always drunk 2+ quarts of water a day … bladder and kidney issue from an early age. But just in the last two days I have drank even more.



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8/12/19 8:17 A

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I had blood work done this morning and will see the cancer doctor tomorrow. I am going to talk to him about the diabetes med he gave me as it is the one that is showing in the adds here that can cause problems. I know this may not seem like a thyroid issue be everything works together in our bodies.

I take synthroid and have for years. When one of my doctors switched things I ended up with issues.

Jane



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8/12/19 3:34 A

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Mtn Kitten,

Sorry endo wasn't helpful. I have gone thru periods where I give up and can't get back on track. Eventually, I am able to start again.

My experience has been most endos aren't helpful. I only had one endo in 50+ years that was good and she left my state. I also have to remind my endo to do Free T-3 when she leaves it off lab slip. She told me Medicare doesn't pay for RT3, which was why she doesn't order. Well, I had another doctor order RT3 and insurance paid. I have argued with my endo to order other tests after educating myself and results pointed to another endo condition that required medication.

I take 150 mg of Armour daily. I use to take 135 mgs (120+15 mg) upon waking and passed out in the afternoon due to extremely low bp. Taking 130 +15 mg upon waking and 15 mg at lunch works better for me. I have more energy, clear thinking, no depression, less appetite, etc. splitting dose. My endo claims patients said splitting dose works better for them. Thyroid patients confirmed splitting dose works better for them. I took it upon myself to split my dose a month before seeing endo. My labs were good and she kept me on this plan. I also take a multivitamin with minerals and D3 after lunch. Magnesium after dinner.

My weight gain, dehydration, and adrenal fatigue was due to eliminating starches. My daughter developed severe anxiety from eliminating starches. Thyroid patients need starches for proper thyroid and adrenal function. I noticed my energy and exercise recovery is better after eating carbs. The scale has decreased too. I don't eat processed food or soy and little dairy and sugar.

I cut back on computer and cell time and knit or watch tv to relax. I sleep well too.

We are individuals and need to experiment to find what works for each of us.



Edited by: APPEALSTOME at: 8/12/2019 (03:41)
Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/11/19 10:32 P

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I've been away from this forum for some time.

I also take Armour … I am working with 120mg alternating with 135mg daily. I've never taken it split in two dosages daily. Hmmm.

Endo didn't work for me here locally. I knew more than they did concerning Armour. They freak out over a suppressed TSH. I had to demand Free T4 and Free T3 labs. And then they didn't know how to interpret them.

The best I every did with losing weight is when I removed wheat, gluten, soy, dairy, sugar and all processed foods.

I can't seem to get back into that regiment.
emoticon

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8/10/19 9:31 P

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emoticon Purrballs. Glad you are back. I take Armour too and dealing with other issues. Fell and tore rotator cuff and bicep muscle and need surgery. Allergies have been terrible here this summer. I recently discovered that taking 30 mg works better for me than taking two 15 mg tablets. I just finished reading the Brain Body Diet by Sara Gottfried MD. The book covers a topics like sleep, stress eating, etc. I incorporated some of her suggestions into my life and feel better, but struggling with getting to bed and wake early. My endo said I need to be in bed by 10 pm. Ain't happening! The only time I am in bed at that time is when I am sick.

Edited by: APPEALSTOME at: 8/10/2019 (21:33)
Tee

Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.


Whatever you do in life, think higher and feel deeper. C. Artias

Your personal history is not your true identity. Don't let the past define who you are.. Eckart Tolle

You are the architect of your actions, words and voice. What an opportunity for love, truth and purpose to shine. Sister Andrea Jaegar

Accept each moment as if you had chosen it. That frees you


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8/10/19 8:08 A

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emoticon Purrballs! I just came back from the states but I have missed you.

Jane on tropical Guam



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8/9/19 1:22 P

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Welcome back Purr!!
I'm not on these boards often, but I do check in once in a while and happened to see you here. Lots has happened in my life, as well as yours, I'm sure. If you have time, write to me in Sparkmail.

Sandy

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8/9/19 10:34 A

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Returned due to bad habits and stress eating. Hope all are well! FYI, I'm one that's on armour and deals with other issues. (not from the armour but from a wonky immune system and gut issues)

If you get stressed out eat some catnip and go to sleep

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.” Thomas Edison

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