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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 418,868
6/2/15 3:46 P

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Hy: I agree . .. . I do not come NEAR SP's recommendations.

Fancy: Yes, we have to be our own advocates, do our own research, do an experiment of ONE on ourselves to determine what works (or not!)



Love is the root of all things good in life.


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 13,683
6/2/15 2:59 P

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I would like to see that also. I will use the tracker when I am doing the way my doctor said, but only to see what levels I am at. I won't use their recommendations, though.

One of the ladies in the other group said that she is an R.N. and the dietitians and nutritionists where she is are paying attention to the newer research, which is good. I don't think they are here (where I live). I went to the diabetes expo and everyone there is still saying to eat more carbs. There was one booth where they were completely saying to read the sugar amount (not carbs) and the fat amount and to choose the low fat. I talked to one of the nutritionists and she told me I wasn't eating enough carbs because I was eating less than 100 g (actually between 50 and 75 usually). Well, since Palm Sunday I have been eating more, winding up on binges, and am so sleepy I can't make it through the day. So I have to get back below 100 g.



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HYEGEEK SparkPoints: (177,548)
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6/2/15 2:34 P

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I tried to get SP to allow us control over our carb levels when we are on the diabetic plan. The short answer is they won't let us because of liability and the fact that they are following the ADA recommended diet. It did not help to tell them that they are not letting me set what my doctor and I came up with.

As a result, there are a lot of tools here I don't use. I'd love to see more control over our settings. Maybe if more people complained, they might reconsider.

FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 13,683
6/2/15 2:24 P

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My feeling has always been to eat lower carbs because they would increase BS. I just wonder why most dietitians around here keep recommending the old way of increasing carbs, only eating the fats of maybe olive oil, avocados and canola. If I track what I eat and the carbs aren't high enough I get a warning that I am not eating enough carbs, even when it is a diabetic diet. They don't change that. It also seems like a lot of doctors don't keep up with newer research. I am fortunate that my doctor does.

My doctor gave me a list of what to eat and avoid last fall. She called it a "modified Atkins diet" but I think it is more like Dr. Perlmutter's. I am trying to get back to that.



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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 418,868
6/2/15 1:25 P

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HOUND: I am the same way, basically a ketogenic diet. Was diagnosed in 2010 (January) and started on Metformin. Dr. wanted me on Metformin AND Insulin, which I declined. Said I'd go with Metformin, see how that goes with nutrition and exercise changes. By March 2011 I was off of Metformin, and my labs were all within normal range.

YES, Dr. David Perlmutter is a big proponent of fat NOT necessarily having anything to do with cholesterol, that the body DOES need cholesterol (specifically the brain) and that the body manufactures it's own anyway. Point being, GOOD fats are healthy.

And I totally agree with the need for complex carbs when on meds to avoid the sugar spikes and lows. But I determined for myself that I would get off meds with proper nutrition and exercise, which I did.



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
6/2/15 12:53 A

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I have to respectfully disagree that you do need carbs. It is quite possible to eat a diet without carbs because our body can manufacture what it needs (called gluconeogenesis) from protein in the liver. The main reason I eat carbs from veggies is that they have other micronutrients that I don't want to miss out on and because they taste good and provide fiber.
As far as diabetics and carbs, it depends if you take drugs and/or insulin. For people who do take a set amount they indeed have to eat carbs to keep their blood sugar from going too low. Blood sugar that is too low can kill quickly, blood sugar that goes too high usually kills slowly over years.
Of course ideally people would want to lower their carbs to where they can reduce or even eliminate drugs and insulin.
If we can keep our blood sugar under control without meds through a ketogenic (very low-carb diet) then we have few if any spikes in our blood sugar. With meds and insulin it is still very hard to keep blood sugar level and avoid high and low spikes, even with an insulin pump. Dr. Bernstein has a lot to say about that in his book and there is lots of advice on this topic on his forum.
As far as fat, it has now been proven that fat, or even saturated fat in the diet has almost nothing to do with cholesterol levels and there is mounting evidence that high cholesterol is better than lower cholesterol for our health. Just take a look at the books "Cholesterol Clarity" by Jimmy Moore and "The great Cholesterol Myth" by Dr. Sinatra.

Birgit

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DONNAEDA's Photo DONNAEDA Posts: 30,939
6/1/15 5:17 P

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I suggest that you find a nutritionist that specialized in diabetes lifestyle. I saw mine this morning and we discussed how well I was doing and the medication I was taking. We are tweaking my meds and diet. You need 15 grams of carbs at each meal. Carbs gives your body fuel and stabilizes your blood glucose. So it is important not to go carb free. Fruits by themselves do cause high blood sugar but burst and you need to have carbs to stabilize. When I get the shakes bananas, pineapple, juices by themselves are good choices to get out of my lows, so don't count them out. Having fruit with a carbs is okay too because they off set each other. But not more than 15 grams at one meal. This is a learning issue and don't expect to learn it all in one week or even in a month. It takes time to know how your body reacts to foods. So listen to your body and meter.

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GLIOWIENRAYNA's Photo GLIOWIENRAYNA Posts: 68
6/1/15 4:32 P

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My advice is to be very selective about to whom you listen. The first "educator" I saw nearly landed me in the hospital, then a very smart nutritionist turned it around for me. Foods affect different people differently. What some people can eat daily (like whole grains) sends my sugar sky high for about 48 hours and has me doing the Metformin dash.

Other people can do a piece of whole wheat toast every day, with no problems.

I personally feel better on higher protein, lower carbs. Like the others here have mentioned cutting white foods (sugar, refined flour, rice, etc) out of the diet was a good place to start, then the rest is honestly up to trial and error. I tested multiple times a day the first 6 months to track how foods affected my blood sugar. Now at the advice of my doctor I only test first thing in the morning and my A1c is down from 7.9 to 6.0 in one year.

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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 418,868
6/1/15 4:20 P

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COMPLEX carbs are ok (sweet potatoes, brown rice, whole foods (not processed), lentils, beans, berries (ALL in moderation).

You DO need carbs, it's just not the simple carbs (white sugar, white flour, white bread, processed foods).

Those spike the blood sugar.

Salt is not good either. Honestly, it triggers carb cravings!

Type 2 is definitely a carb intolerance. so, it really is an experiment of one -- to see what works for you (or not).

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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HYEGEEK SparkPoints: (177,548)
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6/1/15 4:19 P

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The way I got my carb cravings under control was to get away from the starches and sugars entirely for around a month. If I do eat some of that stuff now, I have to be careful as it is easy for the cravings to come back.

The reason the advice is so often so bad is because the follow what amounts to a script on how to get people eat. It turns out, if you are a non compliant insulin dependant diabetic, their recommendations are not that bad. It gives you a way to control your sugars without having to think and with a low chance of going too low. The downside, it you will run higher sugars than you have to and will end up with complications that you don't need to have.

FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 13,683
6/1/15 4:13 P

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I checked my sugar levels a lot when I was first diagnosed. The only thing that raised it very much was if I drank pop or ate a lot of candy. one candy bar didn't do much of anything. White potatoes or bread didn't do anything. I am sure they are some now, mainly because I have been giving in to too many cravings. I am working hard to change that. I am really trying to get back to eating what my doctor has on the list she gave me. Also trying to get to eating less, which wouldn't be too hard if I could stop the carb cravings.

The person who told me NO fats and NO protein relies on coffee, sandwich and pasta like mac and cheese or noodles for eating, so I don't go along with her at all. She was diagnosed more than 25 years ago and claims she has perfect blood tests. Of course, she is on two different diabetes meds, too.

I mainly cannot understand why they are saying to eat MORE carbs. Went to a dietitian one time and she told me to take snack packs of fruit to eat when I am out with nothing else. So this whole thing is confusing me more and more.



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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 418,868
6/1/15 3:45 P

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Agree w/HYE. I monitored my Blood Sugars in the beginning when I was trying to figure out what worked for me (or not).

Cut out sugars, AND salt. Salt and sugar are hard to totally avoid unless you really read labels, which I do take the time to do.

I DO avoid "the whites" as HYE said, too. That made a dramatic difference in my sugars.
got off meds.

You DO need fats. That just gripes my soul when I hear avoid fat. You NEED fat for carbohydrate metabolism! BUT it has to be the right fats: olive oil, avodaco, oils from oily fish like salmon. That helps carbs metabolize AND it feeds the brain. Yes, the brain is more dependent on fats than glucose for functioning.

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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6/1/15 1:35 P

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The short answer is eat to your meter. If something you eat causes a large rise in your blood sugars, you want to avoid it.

What that means for me is no starches or sugar and being careful with fruit.

As far as the fat and cholesterol goes, I've never had better numbers since I dropped the white stuff (bread, grain, rice, sugar...) and upped the amount of fat I eat.

FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 13,683
6/1/15 1:32 P

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I put this on another team, but thought that this one might be appropriate to ask, too. Just cannot figure out why certain things are recommended.

I get totally confused with the different types of diet lifestyles. First off, I cannot understand why a person who is diagnosed with diabetes is told to eat more carbs than they were eating before when carbs are what turns to sugar in the bloodstream. So we choose the low carb eating. Then they say eating higher fat will cause high cholesterol and clogged arteries (I also have seen the reports that sugar causes clogged arteries). So you turn toward the high protein and are told that causes kidney problems. I also was told I need to stop eating protein because that is what makes people fat. The same person has told me I can't eat any fat. Of course, she hasn't studied anything on how different ingredients work. The only thing she says diabetics need to do is stop eating any sugar or fats.

Anyway, how is a person supposed to find what is healthiest when there is so much controversy. It doesn't seem like anything is healthy to eat. I know I can't go too low carb because I lose all energy, but too high carb causes the same thing. Nutritionists say you have to have higher carbs or you get dimentia and alzheimers, but then doctors say that diabetes causes more alzheimers. So how does a person stay healthy? (BTW, those I have known with alzheimers have been more who are slender or thin than heavy -- only one heavy of 5, those with cancer I am the only one who is overweight. I know slender is healthier, but I think that they go overboard saying that overweight causes those things)



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