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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,235
4/30/14 5:41 P

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Happy I could help! emoticon

RUSSELL, I liked your gas pedal analogy! good way of explaining it...It's such a slow process for any of this when you already have major damage from the diabetes! I am glad that people are aware that though their doctors may not have the kind of experience with this that someone does who's lived with it, they do need to be involved in the process... and that we have to take our time...thanks for reinforcing that, too!
Kathy emoticon

"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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JUNIORSSISTER's Photo JUNIORSSISTER Posts: 643
4/30/14 9:58 A

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Magic,

Thank you for showing me how to make a link. I could never figure out, why I wouldn't see the line. So I appreciate that so much.

Russel,

Thank for the detailed response. I am following low carb, and I am tracking alot to see what does and does not work for me. I've increased my good fats. This world of new low numbers is new. Since I previously in the 400 to 500 range and the doctor was recommending an insulin pump. To funny now because then the doc said I'd never come off insulin. I'm keeping detailed track through spark and will have new blood work in the next 2-3 weeks, and see the doc the first week in June. So I will definately keep him in the loop. The rest at this point is tweaking. I do feel eventually I will stop all meds, I just need to make that transition carefully. I'm glad I didn't give in to the pump. For me, for my body at this time it was not the right solution.

As we all views on the boards, it's an insight to other people's experiences and provides a good foundation to ask questions and seek more information. Thank you again for taking the time to that post. I see so many people that have completley come off meds, and I think I will be in that camp by end of year. I am eager to see my blood work.

Nov 2017 - A Clean Slate
April 2017 Actively planning and preparing
Feb 2017 It's a new year.. Look forward.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/30/14 8:04 A

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Congrats on finding out how to reduce your meds by managing your disease with diet instead.

I started low carb 5 years ago, and I find some of the things said here not to be true for me. I go 7-10 hours between meals. I eat at 8 a.m., 3 p.m., and 10 p.m. I might have a snack on occasion, and move these times around a little if I do, but I don't have the need to eat evey 4 hours.

The advice you have been given will change over time. As you get better, and better control, the swings will be much less. I tested my blood sugars for the first 2 years of low carb, but have stopped, since my A1c is 5.0-5.4 without meds for the past 4 years.

I did Induction ( 20 carbs a day ), and indeed, I had low blood sugars for the first year, and struggled to not cheat, as I ate some carbs to offset these low blood sugars. I spent that whole year learning how to add carbs to keep my blood sugars above 70. The way we do it now is we eat lots of carbs, and then try to get our glucose below 130. I think this is backwards, and only done out of a fear of low blood sugars.

First off is the high blood sugars at dawn. I find that if I ate later, that it wouldn't happen for me. I got rid of my Amaryl first, as it was used to counteract this, and I found myself waking to 75-85 fbs. This is instead of 300-500.

Because I was still on 2000 mg Metformin, and the Amaryl ( first 6 months ), and 1000 mg Metformin ( second 6 months ), I struggled to stay ABOVE 70. By training myself how to stay OVER a number, instead of under another number, I learned how to space out my few carbs. By eating the same relative meals, carbs, and calories, I could know when I might have a low sugar problem, and add a few grams of carbs to a meal.

So now, when I stopped medication at one year, it became a lot easier. I no longer was overcoming the medication, and this is what we have done to diabetics these days. We put ourselves on medication, and are then basically eating to make sure that we don't have a low blood sugar. These low blood sugars happen when your body produces Insulin ( actually works ), and drops your blood sugar. Then the Somogyi effect takes place, and you have a high blood sugar in the morning, as stored glucose is released.

This doesn't happen to me for a couple of reasons. One, I have almost no stored glucose, so I have nothing to spike my glucose. Secondly, since I don't spike my blood sugars, I don't experience low blood sugar, even if I eat 2 grams a day ( eggs ). My body doesn't produce Insulin, except in minute quantities. Think about the idea that your pancreas can start working in small spurts. If this happens to someone eating 150 grams of carbs a day, they produce Insulin until their pancreas falls asleep again from you exhausting it, but it is enough to, combined with meds, send your blood sugars crashing. The body will then release stored glucose, and you will probably eat too, since you have blurry vision, and know your sugars are low.

So you have meds, and some Insulin from your pancreas ( erratically ) dropping blood sugar, and then food, and glycogen ( released in emergency ), sending it back up. Since the bodily functions are erratic, and not considered in your menu, or medication amount, they are unknown quantities, so they produce numbers that make no sense, at random intervals. Which is why you have numbers all over the place. You are basically yo-yo-ing your sugars. The very thing that your doctor says you must control.

I, on the other hand, might have 5-6 grams of glucose in my blood, and if my pancreas starts working, it produces a little bit, and shuts off before it gets exhausted. There is no need to produce Insulin, because I am running on a few grams of glucose, and the rest in ketones. So even though my body may temporarily be able to produce SOME Insulin, it doesn't, and I am not taking any meds either. So, how would my blood sugar crash? It DOESN'T. The only way I get a low blood sugar is if I forget to eat for about 24 hours. It has happened.

If I had glycogen, my body would release it, and I would probably eat too, and my blood sugar would spike. Instead, I just eat a meal of chicken , and veggies, and wait. It takes a bit longer to get my blood sugars up, but I do so without spiking them needlessly. I would rather have my vision be blurry for 30 minutes, and move my blood sugar from 50 to 85, than " fix " the problem in a few minutes, and spike it to 150.

This all takes learning, and yes, there is a danger of low blood sugars, but less so, once you get rid of glycogen stores, and meds. It is a transition period of going from eating food that keeps your glucose artificially high, counteracted by meds, versus, eating just enough carbs to keep them above 70-80. Both take time to learn. When you started taking Insulin, there was the possibility of overdosing, and causing a low blood sugar, but your doctor had no worry about the danger presented by doing so. How is low carb low blood sugars, and more dangerous than low blood sugars being caused by Insulin injections? They aren't, and both treatments require time to learn how to do correctly.

Keep working on how the meds, and food effect you. Hopefully one day you are able to drop the meds, and then all you will need is to know how much carbs you need to avoid low blood sugar, AND how little to eat to avoid high blood sugars also. You can learn that now, and how to get smaller swings on your meter, so you don't have any readings outside of the desired 80-110 range.

Think of it like a gas pedal. If you are going 55 on the highway, you just continue pushing the pedal when it drops to 45, and that is akin to eating more carbs. You drop a little, and push the pedal, or increase dietary glucose. We also have a brake pedal ( meds ), but unless you hold the gas pedal down ( S.A.D/ diabetic diet ), you won't go 100 m.p.h., and have any need for that brake pedal. You may go as high as 65, but all you need to do at that point is ease off the gas pedal ( eat a few less carbs. Once you learn how, you just eat X amount of carbs at each meal, and keep it over 80 mg/dl, without approaching 110, unless you want to. With enough experience, you can keep blood sugars within 5 mg/dl of where you want it.

I love to tell my doctor what it will be when they test me. I am consistently with 2-3 mg/dl of what I say it will be. Of course it helps when my fbs is 75-85 every day. Kind of easy to guess 81, and have it pop up @ 78.

So take the time of having your meds reduced to learn how each food affects you, especially carbs. By the time you get off all the meds, you want to know that 1 cup of peppers will move your b.s up 15 mg/dl, and that 2.5 cups of broccoli will up it 10 mg/dl. Also pay attention to how far your blood sugars drop in 1 hour, 4 hours etc. If it drops 5 mg/dl per hour, then if it is 110, you need to eat in 6-8 hours. Your problem right now, is that it is dropping way too fast, due to meds, and so you have to eat every few hours, and then take more meds to offset what you ate, or have low blood sugars. This is why it will take time to wean yourself off the meds. You should be able to handle that by the time you get to that point.

Your doctor will expect a relapse to poor eating, and therefore not want to cut meds, so that will also take consistently lower blood sugars, and better control, but you can move those numbers lower, and eventually, the meds will = 0 ( hopefully ). Your doctor will let you know when/if this is possible, and it is amazing, and if you have taken the time to learn how to eat properly, nothing will change, except you don't take pills. I find it much easier to avoid low/high blood sugars these days, than when I took meds. I actually find it almost impossible to have a low blood sugar as long as I eat every 8-10 hours, even if there are no carbs involved.

It all depends on what you want to learn, and how much your doctor is willing to work with you. Keep aiming to improve as much as possible, and you may be surprised at what is possible. I watched a video by a low carb doctor, who said 80 % of Type II diabetics can get off meds, and I think it is true. The other option is that I am somehow special, and no one can do what I did. Of course, my ego kind of likes that, but since I just winged it, and learned by trial and error, I doubt it is that hard.

**** It will be easier if you ease off the meds, and into a diet that controls your diabetes, and you need your doctor to manage this transition for obvious reasons. I put this here, so no one makes a post suggesting that I am telling you to eat low carb, and quit meds today. Work WITH your doctor to make that happen ****

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,235
4/29/14 9:51 P

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you're welcome, JUNIORSSISTER. By the way, for any who don't know, links are pretty easy, just click on the "add a link" tab at the top right of the message screen, and paste in the address--but don't include the https:// part. Start with just the "www." and it will add just fine. I had fits trying this until someone told me what to do--just paying it forward to anyone else who wants to know...
emoticon

Edited by: I.M.MAGIC at: 4/29/2014 (21:54)
"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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JUNIORSSISTER's Photo JUNIORSSISTER Posts: 643
4/29/14 9:33 P

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Magic,

Thank you for the article, it was very interesting.

This paragraph below is taken directly from the dlife article. I find it very interesting about the
reference of your sugar going up by not eating. I think that happens to me. Sometimes I get so busy at work, that I don't eat, just like today. I will have to focus better on that. Thank you again for article.

"Eat breakfast to limit the dawn phenomenon's effect. By eating, your body will signal the counterregulatory hormones to turn off. This concept can be a little perplexing, as people often say, "But if I don't eat, shouldn't my sugar go down?" The opposite is true. By not eating, or skipping meals, it is fairly common to see higher glucose values as a result"

http://www.dlife.com/diabetes/blood_suga
r_management/garnero_0106


Nov 2017 - A Clean Slate
April 2017 Actively planning and preparing
Feb 2017 It's a new year.. Look forward.


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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,235
4/29/14 8:57 P

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Diabetics should never go longer than about 4 hours without eating something, according to my nutrition specialist... unless of course they are sleeping--and that's where this comes in.

Here's an article you may find helpful:
www.dlife.com/diabetes/blood_sugar_m
an
agement/garnero_0106


"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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JUNIORSSISTER's Photo JUNIORSSISTER Posts: 643
4/29/14 6:12 P

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Thanks for the quick response. I see my endo first week in June and will discuss with him as well. I don't think it was the portion was small, but maybe just too many carbs at one meal 18. The yogurt had 9, the stawberries were 5 (only 4), and the almonds had 6.

The good news sugar is going down, insulin is becoming less and less, maybe none soon. It's just trial and error now. I'm keeping close records so I have info to review with doc. I always like to get some feedback from the boards, just for general input.

Thanks again.

patty

Nov 2017 - A Clean Slate
April 2017 Actively planning and preparing
Feb 2017 It's a new year.. Look forward.


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
4/29/14 5:59 P

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I agree, many possiblities. I recommend you take a look at the Bernstein forum, great advice there, free membership. There are lots of experienced people.
The basic idea is that the lower the carbs are the less insulin you need (maybe none) and the less off target you will be, which means less risk of hypo or hyper.
Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 4/29/2014 (19:14)
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.

http://whippetsandducks.weebly.com/




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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 463,172
4/29/14 5:29 P

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There are so many possibilities it is not possible to guess from your information, but possibilities include:

I usually don't go more than 4 hrs. without eating SOMETHING (no I don't mean an entire meal, but something to fuel my body.)

Could you have been lacking in water???

Maybe it wasn't so much the foods you ate, but the portions.

One thing I have learned is spread my carbs out through the day, with the most carbs consumed before noon.

ALWAYS have a healthy source of fat in your diet, as that aides in carbohydrate metabolism.

Were you more active than usual? If that's the case, your liver could have sensed that you blood sugar was getting too low for your level of activity and released glycogen.

Good luck piecing the puzzle together. It will be interesting to see what other responses you get.



Love is the root of all things good in life.


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JUNIORSSISTER's Photo JUNIORSSISTER Posts: 643
4/29/14 5:13 P

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As I continue to lose weight, there are many changes happening with my sugar and my insulin. Mostly for the positive. I am getting to the point where I think I will be able to eliminate my night shot. Sometimes I can go a few days, and other times not. I've stopped all my meal time shots, my night time shot went from 80 units now I think I will need to drop again to 10. Last night I took 20 units and woke up with a sugar of 73, the day before I skipped my shot and woke to 114. Alittle like the 3 bears, trying to find the right adjustment.

Here is my question, do you think my sugar jumped because I had not eaten anything between lunch and dinner. My lunch was about 18 carbs, Chobani Plain Yogurt, 4 fresh strawberries, and 1 oz of Almonds.

Any thoughts.

Today my sugar as follows:

6:30 73 fasting
12:30 83 right before lunch
5:08 118 Right before dinner

Nov 2017 - A Clean Slate
April 2017 Actively planning and preparing
Feb 2017 It's a new year.. Look forward.


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