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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,199
4/30/14 6:54 P

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Yeah, sad but true... but there's no reason not to still learn! And I know more about my body now that I ever thought I would--and I also know more about who I am as a person...

Oh, as for the diabetes, for me there was no creeping about it! LOL

I only gained weight in the beginning because a college dance coach advised me to lose 15 pounds... which I didn't need to lose!... and I did but it landed me in the hospital, and spoiled my metabolism for the longest time. Even then, it wasn't that much gain, only about 30 pounds.

I started having some of the symptoms of diabetes without any additional weight gain--YEARS before a diagnosis--but I didn't pay much attention. Even with a little extra weight, I was slender (wore a size 9, ladies) and I was an active full-time student carrying a minimum of 24 credits a quarter, and working three part-time jobs, as well as being involved in a community choir AND being a Sunday School teacher, chorister, Young Women's Representative on the church council... I've left a few things out because I can't remember it all! LOL

...I did not have time to think about diabetes, even though it ran like a marathon in my family...and silly me, I didn't always make it home so I lived out of the vending machine! LOL

I went from Jr College to a four-year school, and I was in a car accident on my way to school on Halloween. Ever talked to the cops in costume? Interesting...LOL

A long period of pain and slow healing...

Then I got an ear infection that took me through THREE series of antibiotics that didn't touch it. I was referred to a naturopath finally: she had me well in less than a week. But not one of the clinic doctors, nor the naturopath, thought of diabetes then, either.

I graduated, went to work as a temp at Boeing... and lost 30 pounds which I attributed to a change in lifestyle, since I'd been eating "healthier" and started learning Tai Chi... But then I got another infection of some kind... and we know what happens when diabetics get sick, don't we...

Since I had insurance there, I decided while I was at it to have a yearly physical for the first time since I couldn't remember--and bingo. I felt great the day I had my fasting blood sugar tested-- until the lab called me the following (Saturday) morning to tell me no sugar, no starches, and to see my doctor first thing Monday.

I knew.

My blood glucose level was over 700, and so were my triglycerides--the lab wasn't sure why I wasn't in a coma!...I lost the 30 pounds so easily, because I wasn't using any of the carbs I ate, they were just floating around in my blood! I was literally starving!

Not that I ate all that many carbs even then-- I had been trying to go vegetarian for a while, but developed a B12 deficiency and was told to start eating meat, so my diet consisted of meat and vegetables and an occasional bit of bread or pasta... I was scolded for not having a better balance of nutrients! ...After the diagnosis, for two years, I was a food Nazi, and got my numbers to stay in the normal range. Then for no reason I could figure, they began rising again... my doctor told me you could do everything right and things could still go wrong, because the medical profession is like the rest of us, still learning.

And the rest, as they say, is history. And it's been a pretty wild ride!

We are all personalized experiments in living. I think the biggest mistake any of us make, though, is taking things for granted, y'know? My mother was a highly educated trauma and cardiac nurse, and her life taught me that medical science has a LONG way to go!...and that we are ultimately responsible for our own decisions, on how we live our lives.

It's one of the reasons I enjoy these discussions. Our doctors have a whole lot more to be concerned with than just diabetes, and even with continuing education requirements, they're too busy treating sick people to stay up on EVERYthing... We can learn from each other and take ideas to them to help them treat us!
And seeing where someone else has been can give us a turning point in our own "experiment"...

Kathy emoticon

Edited by: I.M.MAGIC at: 4/30/2014 (19:05)
"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/30/14 9:08 A

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Kathy, you have a special case, and what I hope, is that in the future we can avoid getting to the point you are at. I also was reluctant to up fats, especially saturated fats, due to my heart problems. However, when I actually did so, my heart went from pumping 16 % of its volume to 45 %, and my HDL went from 24 to 46. I took a huge risk, and I might have just died, if they were right.

You have to do what is right for you. I eat about 150 grams of protein a day, which would be way too much for someone with kidney disease, but as Birgit has pointed out, low carb doesn't equal high protein. I keep protein stable, and the other calories are fat/carbs.. as one goes up, the other goes down. If I cut calories, my protein becomes a larger percentage, but the same amount of grams. You have other issues with fat, so along with limiting protein, might be exclusionary, and at this point, would be a huge risk, one I took, but most people wouldn't I think what did it for me, was that I wasn't maintaining as you are doing. I was getting more unhealthy, so I had nothing to lose.

Still, sadly, the discussion may not apply to either of us. We have life-threatening diseases, and while my diabetes may be incredibly well controlled, I still have congestive heart failure, as well as the need to have a heart valve replaced.

I discuss the low carb lifestyle, because I don't want others to have hear t and kidney disease from a high carb diet. You and I might not be sick, if not for eating improperly. So while we may be running out the clock, and hoping they can clone a heart or kidney, or treat them more easily as science advances, my goal is to prevent this from happening to those who aren't in our precarious position, not convince someone like you with a health condition to take risks.

So I correct the idea that low carb is high protein, so that another reader doesn't stop and think that it does and might cause kidney disease. I don't believe that. I think high carb does that, as it leads to diabetes, and then kidney issues, as well as heart, teeth, eyes, limbs etc. Still as someone WITH kidney issues, a lower protein diet would be proper, and if you have issues with fat, you have to work with what you have. I just don't want someone who is in the first stages of hyperinsulinism ( becoming obese ) to shy away from low carb, thinking their kidneys will fail. They could just do a moderate protein version ( higher fat ), which for most people is not a problem.

You and I will have to take many other health issues into account, but these are not issues for most people, and less so if they start eating in a way that doesn't make them obese, and causes diabetes. They would return to having these diseases at 60+, instead of 18. These are all degenerative diseases, so what is making our bodies fail so rapidly? Why is my heart bad at 27 ( or earlier )? Why do I find out I am diabetic at 28? If we answer that, and find it is diet, then we can prevent the next generation from repeating our mistakes.

I am guessing you are older than me, so I kind of wonder when you and your friends started noticing the pounds creep on, and finding out you were diabetic. We tended to start in high school, with weight gain. Most of us had ribs sticking out as children, and slowly built up. Some were already obese as children, but it was rare. Today's kids are obese in the single digit age group, and diabetic in high school. So what was it like for people in their 60's at the high school stage, and their 30's. My parents were born in the early 40's, and looking at their yearbooks, they had no one who was overweight, much less obese. I would say gaunt was more likely, or at least what we would call lanky. My Dad got fat in his 40's ( 5'7 230 ), but in his 30's, he could run with us, and play sports.I never could outrun him, because by the time I was 15, I didn't run, and he could still run a 7 minute mile ( at age 45 ).

This trend needs to be reversed, and it isn't happening with meds. We are sicker than ever, and I don't see many 45 year olds running 7 minute miles after an 72 hours workweek these days. He didn't go to a gym, or do anything besides play sports with us occasionally, and was 180 when I was a kid. This was at the start of the 90's, and by the end of the decade, my Mom would be months from dying, and my Dad would be 3 years from a stroke, after they both gained weight steadily as our diets changed.

All that has happened is we have accelerated how quickly we die, by eating poorly, and we need to go back to how we ate. Meat and veggies cooked in fat, with eggs and bacon for breakfast, and the occasional fruit. It was the basis of my Dad's diet while living on a farm in outstate PA, and my Mom's diet when she lived on a farm in outstate NY. My Dad graduated weighing less than 160, and without dietary changes, I probably would have been around the same, not 317. That is 1 generation. We won't survive many more generations at this rate. Diabetic teenagers is just the start if we don't do something besides prescribe pills that do not work. That means kidney disease at 25-30.

I chose never to have kids, because I wasn't sure if I would live long enough to raise them. My longtime GF, who I was considering marrying, I told to go live life ( she was healthy ), and she now has 3 wonderful children, and a nice husband, but what if we all have kidney problems, and heart disease, and cancer. How long can the human race survive, if we are all too sick to live long enough to raise children, and so decide not to?

So I look beyond what will work for me, with my heart problems, or you with your kidney disease, and look to the healthy youth, or those teenagers who are overweight, or newly obese, and say, let's fix their diet, so they never have either of the problems we do, or at least not for decades to come. They CAN eat higher protein, higher fat, as long as they also eat lower carb. My personal health problems are just that.. MY health problems, and have nothing to do with low carb, or the next generation, unless we fail to act.

It may suck for us, but if I see a reduction in these diseases as more countries become accepting of low carb, like Sweden, and New Zealand, and allow it as an alternative to high carb, then I will die happy, hopefully long in the future..lol.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
4/30/14 12:28 A

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Cathy,
sounds like you have been dealing with all kinds of stuff and still avoided dialysis. I hope you can improve the kidney function further. I don't eat more than 50-70 grams of protein on days when I don't exercise, but I do eat a ton of virgin coconut oil, a 90% saturated fat which is very healthy. If you haven't tried it you may want to look into it. It does not require digestive enzymes to process which is why it is also added to infant formula. It does not cause the kind of problems other high-fat foods can. I will sometimes just eat a spoonful as a snack. If you try it of course clear it with your doctor and start with a small amount. It adds calories and on high energy/exercise days I may eat 4-5 tablespoons of it.
Birgit

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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,199
4/29/14 9:25 P

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I have renal disease, was in fact in stage IV when they first discovered it. I don't know if they were even monitoring for that, until I started having high blood pressure episodes... too long ago now, I don't think the old records exist!... and I'm right with you on the thousands of pages, RUSSELL! LOL

I can't go completely low carb, even 80-90 is difficult because my kidneys can't tolerate large amounts of protein--only 50-70 grams a day there. A lot of foods that are great for low carb are also high in minerals that cause problems as well... and high fats cause other issues... which leaves carbs to create the amount of calories I need just to survive. It's a real juggling act as it is... but I try. And it does make a difference. Just being very careful with what I eat, I went from 25% function to 44% in about a year--then I had cancer, and the stress from the radioactive scans, the surgery, etc... I was still in the hospital and I was dropping into renal failure because I couldn't take oral meds and the kidney protection wasn't available in IV so they were fighting like crazy to get them back--but managed to avoid dialysis even then.

I'm currently at 31%... I work very hard at control, but it's more of a struggle than ever--and whenever I get sick, like right now I have bronchitis... let's just say, kidneys don't like illness! LOL

I am extremely hesitant at this stage to rock the boat by trying anything without my specialist's ok, y'know? I do talk to her about this kind of thing, and she tells me "baby steps" and "first things first"... I've still got a long way to go.

Don't we all?
LOL
Kathy

P.S. Thanks, RUSSELL, for providing our minds with good discussion material!

Edited by: I.M.MAGIC at: 4/29/2014 (21:26)
"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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GLIOWIENRAYNA's Photo GLIOWIENRAYNA Posts: 68
4/29/14 7:32 P

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My health care clinic makes all these things available online for patients....so you don't even have to print it out, just look it up. See if your doctor's office does the something like that.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
4/29/14 5:52 P

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Russell, in addition to asking the doctor for results (even old ones) every patient has a legal right to get a photo copy of everything that is in their file. This is especially important because most records need to only be kept for 10 years.
They will ask you to fill out a form declaring that they are allowed to release your records to you (yes, that doesn't make sense) and then they can charge a certain amount for photocopies, although not all do, so ask ahead of time.
I've changed doctors enough that I'd rather have a copy of everything myself.
I believe kidney damage only shows up in blood work when it's quite advanced, but don't know details.
Birgit

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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 427,944
4/29/14 5:36 P

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Well, I don't have any answers for you, but for sure, we have to be educated and advocate because the Drs. don't take that much time with us to make sure all questions are answered!

I wouldn't be shy about asking for a creatinine level.



Love is the root of all things good in life.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/29/14 3:45 P

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Took me a while to find out how to read the actual study...lol. He really did not go very low carb to achieve these wonderful results. At 80-90 g a day, it is not even that strict. I plan to ask my doctor about my creatinine next visit. I had an albumine test done in March, so I should be able to check both. So far, I have not had any kidney issues, but now I am interested in what they were before I started low carb 5 years ago ( the diabetic diet phase ). Hopefully he is okay with looking them up in my 1000 pages of notes..lol. The file is up to about 8 inches thick now.

I do know that I had blood in my urine years ago, but it went away when I started low carb. I worried about this when i started Coumadin, and asked if this little bit of blood might be come a lot of blood, and was told that it was gone. You would think they would have mentioned that, but it seems like they only give me info, if I demand it, or it is really bad.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 4/29/2014 (15:47)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 427,944
4/28/14 3:05 P

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Wow! Thank you.

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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GLIOWIENRAYNA's Photo GLIOWIENRAYNA Posts: 68
4/28/14 2:19 P

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My late husband had the theory that he could eat anything and everything he wanted, and he would just adjust his insulin. It lead to his early death at 45.

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NORASPAT's Photo NORASPAT Posts: 53,692
4/28/14 1:42 P

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Thanks for this. Our son who is diagnosed type 2 asked to be put on insulin. It was more convenient with his job. After reading this I must caution him the high carbs and insulin is not a good plan. Pat in Maine. I will send him the article to peruse. emoticon

Pat in Maine.
I FEEL Healthier every day with my Spark Tracker.
I will do it slowly I like it that way.
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JUST DO IT!

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
4/28/14 1:21 P

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I just found this article linked on Dr. Eberstein's webpage Controlled Carbohydrate Nutrition under research (this is the abstract but the full article is free access):

www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/conte
nt
/3/1/23/abstract


Comments?

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 4/28/2014 (13:27)
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