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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 464,179
4/27/14 3:30 P

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Bottom line I think we all have to be aware of how ANY foods are handled by our bodies. Guidelines are just that . . . guidelines.

For me, th lower carbs, including no bread, works for me. Everything is about balance.

It IS amazing to me how the guidelines have changed over the years, re: a LOT of diseases or syndromes. The ADA and the endocrinologists have differing guidelines re: TSH levels to diagnose (or not) thyroid problems. It's an experiment sometimes!



Love is the root of all things good in life.


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,805
4/27/14 2:49 P

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That is really a thought about how the diet recommendations have changed. I never knew about those recommendations in the past. I went to both a diabetes counselor and a couple of dieticians and they all recommend the higher carbs like the ADA says to eat. In fact, the dieticians said to eat fruit between meals and to always have the little fruit cups on hand when I am in the car so I have them to eat if I get hungry rather than having something like a hamburger (no bun) or cheese. I did have some, but most of those little fruit cups ended up in the trash. I wonder why they want people to eat such high carbs when they cause the BS increase.

And Atkins diet was considered "New."



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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 464,179
4/27/14 8:14 A

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OH my. . . . you've hit upon a weak spot for me. CORN! Used to love it (who am I kidding . . . I still DO) but I cannot eat much of it as it just sends my blood sugars way too high . . . even in proper portions. I do enjoy it once in awhile.

And yes, I believe LOTS of the problems people have physically today are from the way foods like wheat and corn are altered!

You have started an extremely interesting discussion and I appreciate it!

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/27/14 7:53 A

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I read about how much corn has changed, and I am able to eat corn occasionally without weight gain, which would happen immediately if I ate bread for example.

Still how much better was corn for you in 1917, than it is today, after Monsanto re-created it? I might be able to eat it daily, if it was in it's original form.

Who knows? Maybe the problem IS what has been done to the food, as well as the macronutrient ratios. I'm sure it isn't a benefit. Nature tends to be healthier than foods that have been altered.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 4/27/2014 (07:54)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 464,179
4/27/14 7:26 A

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AMEN! Yes it does, but must work!

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/27/14 7:20 A

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They only used a tiny portion of the wheat kernel, which was high gluten, but not starchy, or full of carbs.. not sure if that was much better, since so many people have gluten problems.

So it tended to be a very low carb bread.

On pages 148-156, they have 9 daily meal plans, and it tends to be 7 % carbs, 17 % protein, and 76 % fat, so stricter than even I follow. Similar to the Bernstein plan. I have never like bread, so I tended to focus on other things, like Table 3, and how butter, cream, bacon, beef, mutton, goose, duck, pork/ham, mackerel, salmon, caviar, eggs, and assorted cheese were foods that were " especially valuable, due to the nutritive qualities ".

That list of " best foods ", sounds like the AMA list of foods to avoid to prevent heart disease.. emoticon

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 464,179
4/27/14 7:07 A

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I wondered about all the cakes and such in the book, but then it occurred to me, perhaps it had to do with the type of wheat available in those days . . . . not modified, not sprayed w/chemicals, and so on. Not the frankenwheat of today. I surmise that could have made a difference in how it was metabolized???

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/27/14 6:13 A

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aleurone is a high gluten, no starch layer of the wheat kernel. I didn't notice it, because I don't like bread, but after posting this on two team sites, this seems to be the #1 focus...lol. Give me my bread!!!

Might be a problem getting rid of carbs, and having gluten for some people, so maybe a case of trading one evil for another.

Separated eggs was #2 on the queries.

I tended to focus more on things like Table III... foods that owing to their great nutritive qualities are especially valuable.. butter, olive oil cream, bacon, beef ham, pork, tongue, mutton goose and duck. Also the fish, cheeses, and eggs.

Another interesting thing was the short chapter on fruits, Almost like they didn't want you to eat much.

However, no matter what you focused on, the common theme was limiting carbs, and upping fat. This not only could be of help for diabetics today ( maybe not all the breads/cakes etc. ), as well as a help to low carbers in general.

Since I am both, I may attempt to recreate some of the sauces for example, and see if they are a problem. I have up to this point, avoided sauces.

At the end they have the meal plans ( 9 of them ), and not one has 50 grams ( total ), so they would even be strict for me.. I had 50 grams on Saturday, with 15 coming from fiber. Most of their daily plans call for 2000-2500 calories, of which they do not attribute who would eat this much. I find it similar to my menu calorie-wise, but i wouldn't eat anything " bready " I also note that eggs do have .6 g of carbs each, so their calculations for carbs may be slightly low. Seems to recommend 6-7% carbs though... unthinkable today.

Its about what I eat on a daily basis though, and have a 5.0 A1c, and no meds. I wonder if eating the way they suggest here, helped them manage their diabetes with diet, since treatment was not very good back then. They didn't have Insulin, or Metformin, or even blood sugar meters.

If one was to discount it's value to diabetics, and just focus on the low carb aspects, then Atkins was certainly not a leader in low carb dieting, since this is about 60 years ahead of him.

Another area of interest to me was the protein make-up. Several of the days were below 100 grams, and only 1 was much over 110 ( 131 ). On that highest day, protein doesn't go above 21 %. Most days it was 15% or so. Fat tended to be around 76 % for them.

Personally, I struggle to keep carbs/protein this low, or fat that high. With this plan, they might even have better blood sugar control than I do, since they limit protein/carbs most days to 24 %, and I tend to have that around 32 %.. 20-25% protein, 7-12% carbs.

Besides the occasional bread, I notice that most days they eat a fruit, which I tend to get in the form of tomato ( in dishes ), not peaches, or apples. I do sometimes eat berries though.

So there are some small differences between this diabetic menu, and what we would eat on low carb.. less protein, and veggies, greater fat, and fruit intake, but not a huge difference.

I do have to wonder how this turned into the diabetic diet of today, with 45 % carbs. Did the diet work, as it does for me, or did it not, and we moved on to a different plan? My mother had a book on diabetic eating from the 50's ( she was a nurse in the 60's ) and it was very similar to this one. Why the huge change?

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,805
4/26/14 5:46 P

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What is aleuronet? The things with almond flour look good to try, though. I wonder how much sugar, stevia, splenda or whatever the 2 saccharine tablets are equal to.



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I.M.MAGIC's Photo I.M.MAGIC Posts: 13,236
4/26/14 2:14 P

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Aleuronat--definitely NOT for anyone with a gluten intolerance!...Made me smile!... back when my grandmother was 10 yrs old!...


"The real secret of success is enthusiasm..." thanks, Walter P. Chrysler. I believe it. That's what I want in my life--to give my imagination a chance, to live with energy and enthusiasm!
P.S. I looked up enthusiasm, and it says the root words mean God within... interesting...!

Ralph Waldo Emerson said 'Life belongs to the energetic.' But you don't have to be frenetic and hyper--some energy is quiet and steady, like a heartbeat... and that works too! LOL

Life comes one mome


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SAO1950 Posts: 6
4/26/14 1:45 P

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So interesting! Thanks for sharing.

1CRAZYDOG's Photo 1CRAZYDOG Posts: 464,179
4/26/14 11:28 A

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emoticon

Love is the root of all things good in life.


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DBELLE39's Photo DBELLE39 SparkPoints: (277,774)
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4/26/14 10:55 A

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Donna B.

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Goal Weight 135

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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/26/14 9:24 A

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Off Mark's Daily Apple, a diabetic cookery book from 1917. Lots of fun, you can flip pages at the bottom right, and look at what the suggestions for diabetics was 97 years ago. Looks very similar to low carb diets today.

www.archive.org/stream/diabeticcooke
ry
r00oppeiala#page/14/mode/2up


Tables I - IV look like the acceptable foods list in the Atkins book.

For those of us who might be willing to admit that Mark's Daily Apple is a low carb site, I also chose another site.. California Digital library.. probably where Mark Sisson got it.

archive.org/details/diabeticcookeryr
00
oppeiala


Even if it doesn't change your mind, it's still interesting, and fun, compared to watching 40 min videos. emoticon

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 4/26/2014 (09:31)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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