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LDYHAZ's Photo LDYHAZ Posts: 1,473
9/16/18 8:01 A

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Only suggestion I would have is add Heavy cream to your coffee not milk. Keep that fat intake up :)

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 11,816
9/12/18 9:18 P

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I agree with KDGIRL, you figure out what you should weigh, and calculate your calories, grams of this and that based on that weight.

I'd love to weight 160 pounds, and at 0.36 grams of protein per pound that is 58 grams of protein a day. If I weighted 280 pounds it would be foolish of me to multiply 280 by 0.36 and get 101 grams of protein a day. I don't need extra protein to support extra body fat, I need a certain amount of protein the lean body parts that I have, and not more.

James


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9/12/18 5:51 P

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I so agree—and that’s one of the few things that are difficult with keto. There are so many different ways..some are downright ridiculous and nowhere near the usual keto parameters.
Weeding through is tedious and sometimes discouraging. I have always loved diet doctor (and still do) and think they are a great resource, and wonder if they just haven’t updated on this?
And you are so right about finding what’s comfortable for you!! I think that’s the key..

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/12/18 4:28 P

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Maybe the difference is that this particular link wants you to put in what your DESIRED body weight is - then eat to that amount. Which of course is less than most of us currently weigh.

Also, it could be it's a man's ratio, not a woman's.

It's so distressing that there is so much conflicting information out there - even on highly rated information sites.

And true too, that what works for one person does not work for another. Which is why we need to experiment on ourselves to see what works.

I've been winging it lately - too much going on at the home front and although I'm staying keto friendly, and not gaining, I am not losing so I need to buckle down and start tracking again to see where my own personal sweet spot is.

20 or less grams of carbs. That we know.
50 grams of protein for women.
70 grams of protein for men.
The rest fat. Double your protein allotment.



Karen "KD"





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9/12/18 3:18 P

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i think thats way high KD...heres a quote..i know most of the coaches go with the 0.8/kg

"Most official nutrition organizations recommend a fairly modest protein intake. The DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound."

here's another "Wondering exactly how much protein you should be consuming each day? The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA), which is the minimum amount you need to be healthy, is 0.8 grams per kilogram (0.36 grams per pound) of body weight per day46 grams for an average woman. That equals as little as 10% of daily calories. "
that one went on to use the same calculations as the other.

i looked at quite a few sites just now to be sure i wasnt remembering wrong..all said 0.8/kg--
not sure where dietdoctor is getting their numbers from...

that said..i wouldn't think any adult should go under 40 g per day (edited to add..thats ME thinking that..i dont have any data to back that up.)

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 9/12/2018 (15:19)
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/12/18 2:46 P

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Holly I bow to your experience and success about fat.

About protein - I just found this on Dietdoctor.com

You can use this calculator to determine your ideal body weight in kilograms, and then multiply this number by 1.2-1.7 to get your daily protein range.

clincalc.com/Kinetics/IdealBW.aspx

So for me - 49 kg x 1.2 = 58.8 (up to 83.3 which is way too high for me, and also I am not super active nor an athlete)

Divide it up however. 30 per meal if you eat two meals, 20 per meal if you eat 3.



Karen "KD"





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9/12/18 2:05 P

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i think you really do want to meet your fat target. sometimes you have to make yourself eat enough.
possible side effects of not getting enough calories..and i speak from experience. your hair can fall out (mine did) your nails can get brittle (mine did) your metabolism can slow (mine did..and i think this was from before with all my low cal eating all my life)
the 120 is the minimum for fat..i wouldnt think you have to force more than that..but i would certainly try to get to it.
a few days here and there not getting to it wont be a problem, but lots can be.

too many people think that if they cut fat they will lose faster. not so. remember what the definition of a ketogenic diet is..very low carb, very high fat, and moderate protein.

i personally..and this is MY opinion only..dont agree with the many experts that think you should force yourself to eat your TDEE calories. because i hired coaches and paid good money i decided that i would work their advice for one month. then make my decisions. when i ate to my TDEE of 2300 cals a day i felt like a beached whale. yes i lost faster and better..but i'd rather feel comfortable. thats me personally. so i dropped to between 1800 and 2000..and yes my loss slowed, but thats ok..i'd rather lose slow and feel good than lose faster and not.

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/12/18 1:01 P

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There are lots of days I don't hit my fat target.

I personally think making sure your carbs are under 20 grams per day is #1.

Then, try and get 60 grams of protein #2.

Then, eat the rest in fat so your food tastes good and you are not hungry. Don't force feed yourself fat to hit a macro - your body can use its own fat to make up the difference.

BUT - don't think that all your fat is coming from your body either. It needs food fat to prime the pump, so to speak. Don't go low fat for sure.

This is MHO.


Karen "KD"





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9/12/18 12:53 P

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OK - I have another question: What might the penalty be for not having 120 grams of fat.

I have reached a point where I am not hungry often and have had only 2 meals in a day. I had a day or two where I did not reach 120 grams of fat?

Any advice?

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9/11/18 3:03 P

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well i'm over on protein lots of days and i try to be really strict..so i'd say you are doing fantastic!

Holly
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9/11/18 1:37 P

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Thanks Holly & James for answering my questions.

Overall - I do think I am coming along well. I think there was one day where I went over on carbs and protein........



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9/11/18 12:10 P

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Hi Dontletthemwin and WELCOME!!

so..you are at 20 gm protein after breakfast..that still leaves you 20 for lunch and 20 for dinner..or 10 for lunch and 30 for dinner..

just do your best. when i was learning i didnt even count protein..i'm sure i was double what i should have been. once i got confident with the carbs and all.and i wasnt hungry or anything, then i paid more attention to the numbers.

you can take out egg whites to keep protein at breakfast down..most of the protein is in the whites. go easy on cheese..unless its cream cheese and boursin, both low in protein.
While 60 is the max unless your are a super athlete (then its up to 70) like i said carbs are far more important to get down. the pancake/waffle recipe i use has only eggs, cream cheese and baking powder..and a little butter. no flours or anything to up the carb count..and they are GOOD. i served them to my VERY picky relatives..who said smugly when i sat down with mine...so we see you are off that silly diet.
i said nope..but YOU are EATING that silly diet food...can you tell? they were absolutely flabbergasted. you truly cant tell the difference in taste.

Holly
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 11,816
9/11/18 12:08 P

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IWANTTOSUCCEED,

To reiterate what Holly wrote, going super low (even none) on carbs is not an issue, as you don't need them. Here on Wikipedia about carbs:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate
It says:
"Carbohydrates are a common source of energy in living organisms; however, no single carbohydrate is an essential nutrient in humans."

As for excess protein, let's say above 60 grams a day, what happens with that? There is a process called gluconeogenesis where the body makes glucose from excess protein. So will excess protein be turned into glucose, something that you don't really need anyways? I've done experiments on myself. I'm a diabetic, and have the blood sugar test stuff. I consumed a very large amount of protein powder and saw no change in my blood sugar. My conclusion, in ketosis I didn't need to convert the protein into carbs, and the body stores it away into body fat.

What about extra carbs? They raise blood sugar, and your body stores excess carbs away into glycogen and when glycogen is full into body fat. You can delay getting back into ketosis by about 2 to 3 days by eating a lot of carbs.

James


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Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/11/18 11:28 A

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Check out Holly and James' pancake/waffle recipes - they are really good! Also I think I dropped a pork rind waffle recipe in the mix that I thought was really good as well. The waffle was thick and delicious.

Try and plan the perfect day with your macros- then you'll know what you're shooting for, and do your best to get close. Don't worry too much about protein unless you eat a ton over your macros. For women - 50-70 I think is what's recommended. So if your breakfast has 20, try and keep lunch to 20 and dinner to 20 as well. Figure out what else you can eat that your like, plus what keeps you satisfied and not hungry.

Karen "KD"





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DONTLETTHEMWIN's Photo DONTLETTHEMWIN SparkPoints: (34)
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9/11/18 11:17 A

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I'm new to Keto as well. Maybe we can be buddies! For those with a lot of Keto experience, I want to ask: How do you keep from eating too much protein? I've had eggs and bacon this morning along with a splash of cream in my coffee and I am already up to 20g of protein. Also, I'm looking for Keto pancake recipes, maybe with almond flour or other alternatives. Any suggestions?

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9/11/18 11:01 A

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well we arent going to spank you..lol

going under carbs is never a problem. i have many days i'm under 5. most all of my carbs are from cheese, cream, and my one serving of veg a day.

if you go over in protein the world wont stop. i go over lots. just do your best. i'd way rather go over in protein than carbs.

carbs..depends how many you go over by. just do your best. if you get kicked out of ketosis you just do better and go back in.

i always say..just do your best....

Holly
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9/11/18 10:55 A

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OK - I have more questions:

1) what might the penalties be for eating less than 20 grams of carbs in one day
2) what might the penalties be for going over in protein one day
3) how about going over in carbs one day

As always, thanks!!!!!

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 11,816
9/11/18 9:36 A

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I agree with what IWANTTOSUCCED wrote.

Have you seen the "eat from this list" post of mine:
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/t
eam_messa
geboard_thread.asp?board=0x58
536x6
6679431x2xfirst


Basically any meat, just not breaded coatings, or sweet coatings, so a dry rub of spices. Just salt and pepper work pretty well, but other are possible like paprika, garlic powder, etc.

Then there is a huge list of veggies that could go into a huge salad on that page. I like romaine lettuce as a base. Then a dressing, ranch dressing is good, just read labels and pick other dressings if their carb count is similar to, or lower than the ranch one.

I often get really lazy and buy a store bought cooked chicken, and a store made prepared salad mix, and store bought dressing. So not a lot of work on my part.

James


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Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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9/11/18 9:30 A

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i have always kept it very simple..which was hard for me at first. my whole life revolved around food, from my work to home to making up new recipes...and to just ditch that and eat plain was hard for me psychologically. But once i got a variety of things i could stand to eat so plainly (its no secret i find no joy in keto eating) it was much easier.

my suggestion. make 3 lists. breakfast, lunch, dinner. put down things you like for each..then when its time to plan you just look at the lists and grab something.

My breakfast lists:
eggs
bacon
sausage
cheese
waffles
pancakes

my lunch list

hard boiled eggs.
cheese
pepperoni
summer sausage
leftovers
meat sticks

my dinner list

any meat
salad..romaine or spincach with cheese and oil and vinegar
meatballs
quiche
taco bake
zucchini spaghetti with meat sauce'
and then i have a list of things i want to try, but i never have time..lol. maybe this winter when things slow down!!

Holly
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9/11/18 5:29 A

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Lexi - I do find it a bit time consuming and challenging to figure out my daily menus. I am constantly adding and removing things to keep my %'s where they should be.

I have just started my third week of KETO and do feel more confident about doing it. I have seen a 10.2 lb loss in those 2 weeks. I have also found I am seldom hungry and if I do get hungry I look for fat (LOL).

But, I gotta say - there is a bit of cooking and measuring involved. Kinda getting used to it - LOL.

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9/10/18 8:00 P

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does anyone else find planning menus etc difficult? really struggling lol

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9/6/18 6:36 P

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You are doing great Lexi!!! we all are always learning new science comes out all the time..so we all help each other...
keep it up!!

Holly
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9/6/18 5:42 P

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Ah cool, thanks. Im trying to reverse it, if I know that I need to eat say 30g of Protein, then I know I will need to buy/eat x amount of chicken etc.

Thanks guys

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9/6/18 9:10 A

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I use my fitness pal..it figures for you, too. i think most of the apps do..which really helps!!

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/6/18 7:47 A

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And to further expand James' explanation - then you take the 32 grams and multiply it by 1.3 to get 41.6 grams of protein in that 130 grams of chicken.

You can also just input your food into Cronometer (free app) and it'll figure all that out for you.

Karen "KD"





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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 11,816
9/5/18 8:49 P

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ARCHANGELEXI,
I love the nutritiondata website. If you google "nutritiondata cooked chicken" it should quickly lead you to one of their pages.

On the page set the serving size to 100 grams, then look in the wealth of data for grams of protein. Let's say it's 32, then 32% of the weight is protein. You can do this for beef, or tofu or anything. I always set the serving size to 100 grams.

James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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9/5/18 8:23 P

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how do I find out how much Beef or Chicken equals how much protein...eg> if I have 130g of Chicken Breast, how do I figure out how much protein it is? i know its not a 1:1 Ratio

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9/5/18 11:34 A

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welcome Sparkling!!! KD has it right on..great advice!!

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/5/18 11:11 A

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Hi Sparkling - welcome to keto! Read as much as you can. Don't over-complicate your meals, at least until you are used to what to eat.

Realize you may not feel great for a few weeks while your body transitions from burning sugar to burning fat.

Carbs - less than 20g
Protein - about 50g
Fat - until you are no longer hungry (maybe 100-180g)

Good luck!

Karen "KD"





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SPARKLING2018's Photo SPARKLING2018 Posts: 160
9/5/18 10:47 A

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Hi everyone. New to Keto today is my 2nd day. Wish me luck emoticon

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9/4/18 11:24 P

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Just wanted to add here (regarding the high carb count in the soy latte) that most soy milks that are added to lattes contain sugarand quite a bit of it. Unless the soy milk specifically says unsweetened chances are it has sugar (in some form) as one of the ingredients.

~~Raven

"Ring the bells that can still ring,
Forget your perfect offering--
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."
~~Leonard Cohen, "Anthem"


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9/4/18 10:17 P

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Lexi if you tell us what maybe we can help?

Holly
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9/4/18 10:12 P

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Is anyone else in Australia? Sometimes I see ingredients that I have never heard of or seen in the supermarkets here. it would be nice to put in to an Aussie context

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9/4/18 12:22 P

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sounds like you are doing great!!
I'm actually having zucchini noodles with sAuce tonite..heres how i do it.
brown a pound of burger...then add in a small can of plain tomato sauce. check to be sure its got no ingredients but tomatos and salt..herbs are ok..but no sugar. i toss that in, then a couple spoonfuls of basil pesto..and some heavy cream. taste it..add basil, oregano, whatever herbs you like till its how you like it. i add in parmesan.
this makes 4 servings for me. and its GOOD. and doesnt take much more time that cooking the burger and warming the rest.

Holly
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,585
9/4/18 7:30 A

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Hi Lexi - I haven't been doing keto as long as some of the others, but I do have to say when you're starting, it might help to keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Meat and veggie. Eggs and bacon. Salad and protein and dressing. Keep your fats up. Keep your protein moderate (50ish grams) and count all your carbs. Maybe do the Bolognese on the weekend, and make the work week simple.

Make sure you get your electrolytes!! Salt, magnesium, a pinch of potassium. You will feel better now because of losing lots of weight quickly - you will feel better in the next few weeks because your body is now learning how to burn fat rather than sugar for fuel.

Read as much as you can. Heavy whipping cream has very low carbs (.84 in 2 tbsp. I believe?) and you don't need as much as milk. And it's yummy. Good luck!

Karen "KD"





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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 11,816
9/3/18 11:52 P

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Hi Lexi!

When you go from carbs-a-plenty (1600 calories?) down to 20 grams it is quite a shock.

I'm not sure if you felt exhausted when you get home from work before switching to Keto, or after. But either way, I'm sure that after a few more days, like 3 you'll start to feel better, and your energy will get better and better.

Glad you found this team.

- James

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Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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9/3/18 11:44 P

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Recipes would be awesome :) Im guessing its the Milk? that adds the Carbs, last couple of days Ive been drinking black coffee or coffee with a splash of milk.

I love meatballs and bolognaise etc so thinking of making with Zughetti but I dont have any sauces or 2 hrs to make one, I guess im just struggling with changing my thinking :) but I already lost 3 kg is last week :) so Im hoping that means im heading in the right direction

Edited by: ARCHANGELEXI at: 9/3/2018 (23:45)
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9/3/18 10:47 P

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welcome Lexi!!

once you get used to it its not hard...the first week or so is a lot of trial and error. I like to tell people..keto is first for getting healthy the weight loss is just a happy result of that!!

i'm going to toss something out there...soy is not recommended on keto. There are many articles on it. As always, its your choice, but i'm betting theres a good sub for it. i dont drink coffee, but i know many that enjoy their keto friendly coffee with heavy cream.
wonder whats in the latte to make it 13 g carbs?
just know there are many, many keto friendly replacements. i've come up with a great meat sauce i have over zucchini noodles. James has a pizza he likes. i do waffles out of eggs and cream cheese. and i am usually under 10 carbs a day..so it CAN be done!!
Take your time...ask all the questions you want..if you need recipes or anything ask!!! We are happy to help!!

Holly
Northern NY
EDT


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ARCHANGELEXI's Photo ARCHANGELEXI SparkPoints: (588)
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9/3/18 10:26 P

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So I have recently decided to start on Keto for a variety of medical reasons High BP, PCOS, insulin Resistance and Obesity etc and with research it seems Keto fits in with what I need to avoid (Carbs!) The Hardest thing I so far have identified is the 20g of Carbs a day, sometimes my breakfasts are 1/2 or 2/3 of that already. I then found that the Caffe Soy Latte I have each morning is 13g apparently.....talk about devastating news lol.

and actually eating the 1600 Carbs a day as I used to get it from I guess the junk foods and Carbs!
By the time I get home from work in the afternoon I'm exhausted and I have no energy to want to cook :( which is where the takeaways used to come in. Im hoping this change in diet will help bring some energy back into my life

Edited by: ARCHANGELEXI at: 9/3/2018 (22:30)
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