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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
5/1/18 12:20 A

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There is never a good time to cut off the end of the month
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Please continue discussion under the May discussion
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James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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4/30/18 11:22 P

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I havent tried keto brownies would love the recipe!!! most of my orders are for cupcakes because they ship well..but brownies would too!! people order 2 cupcakes..and only for special occasions. i agree with you keep it simple..


Just finished The Magic Pill. Really interesting..but we already knew the benefits...just great to see it being talked openly about!!

Holly
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MONTHONY's Photo MONTHONY Posts: 256
4/30/18 11:12 P

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Iím inspired by all of you.
One of the other faculty members made me a brownie and brought it to work this morning. All Keto and so incredible! Sheís going to bring me the recipe. Holly, Iím sure you already make great Keto brownies.
I donít eat much desserts on Keto, because I just want to keep it simple for now. But every once in awhile to have a treat like this satisfies me for a long time

Edited by: MONTHONY at: 4/30/2018 (23:26)
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4/30/18 6:54 P

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i'm impressed with the sheer number of great recipes..its from the lady that has the "I Breathe I'm Hungry " blog. 300 and some odd pages!!! there are a few i wouldnt use..with fruit and stuff..but the rest..wow!!!

Holly
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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/30/18 6:32 P

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Sounds good, Holly! Will have to try it!

Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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4/30/18 5:01 P

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well done Sadie!!

My copy of Everyday Keto Kitchen just arrived!! going to go sit down and peruse...

Holly
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SADIEMYERS's Photo SADIEMYERS Posts: 11,068
4/30/18 4:53 P

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This past weekend was our date night away for a concert/hotel/buffet. I was planning on eating lots of crab and butter. However there was no crab this night. It's becoming much easier and less thinking involved for eating keto. I ended up eating about 2 oz of poached salmon with lots of olive oil poured on it. A salt and pepper chicken wing. Then some real fatty beef short ribs cooked in a tomato based sauce. I shook them off real well since I normally don't do tomato. Grabbed a handful of wrapped butter pats for my beef and a few for my coffee the next morning. I had saved most of my carbs for this meal so I was fine. 60 different desserts plus 150 items I couldn't eat. No temptation to not eat keto.

Sadie ~ Pacific Time Zone


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4/30/18 1:53 P

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Kathleen way to go!! I smoked a pork butt for a family gathering on Saturday. I had some leftover last night for supper..its so good..i injected the roast with melted butter before i rubbed it, and i just had a couple pats of butter with it when i warmed it up last night. i had taken maybe half a cup of meat..ended up not finishing it..the butter filled me up!!
Got that hint from Jimmy Moore in Keto Clarity...he said he always puts butter on his plate and just takes a little on his fork with every bite..and he fills up fast, plus it gets him to his fat goals. When i read it i thought ewww thats gross..but then i tried it, and its good..especially if you combine the butter with some herbs! basil and a small amount of granulated garlic is my favorite for meats!

Holly
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FOGFOG's Photo FOGFOG Posts: 1,480
4/30/18 1:27 P

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Wanda
We dont do fast food much - 1 expensive and 2- doesn't fit my WOE
however was pretty pysched to see this yesterday.

I need to be more proactive when eating out-- I do fine asking for double veg etc instead of potato at a nice restaurant--and with fast food figure I am stuck.

Eating while driving--this wrapped in lettuce and then wrapped in paper to hold it was great

"Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudlyshouting,
"Wow! What a ride! Thank you, Lord!" Beth Moore


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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/30/18 12:48 P

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Way to go Karen!

I've been watching a little more closely my protein intake, as I think that I was eating too much, which was probably causing me to stall. It's hard to get the fats in though.

This morning, I decided to drink just 6 oz of hot tea with MCT oil so I could get a jump start on fat for the day (fasting till lunch). It made me sick. Guess I shouldn't do it on an empty stomach.

The coffee bullets were making me sick, but I thought maybe it was because I was drinking 12 oz or more. With my small stomach, I just couldn't drink that much. I was hoping 6oz would be ok. Guess not. *sigh*

I added Ghee, butter, MCT to everything yesterday and it was still a challenge to get enough consumed and not add protein, but I made it!

I've got to come up with some other options. For dinner yesterday I had sauteed mushrooms drenched in butter, with spinach and pecans mixed in. I had to eat it with a spoon so I could get every drop of fat!


Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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4/30/18 12:37 P

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Fogfog Hardees did that several years ago, then quit. Guess with the new craze in low carb, they decided to bring it back. It's a good thing!

I have found that the fast food places don't even blink an eye when I order a burger with no bun. They just give it to me in a plastic container with a fork and knife.

I like the $3 bacon cheeseburger at McD's.

Jimmy John's does a no carb too,but I'm not a big fan of them or Subway. The only time I will go either place is when my grands choose one of them for their birthday dinner that we always treat them to. I've accused them of choosing one of these places just to test grandma on whether I will say no. lol Fortunately, my grands generally choose a nice restaurant where we get cloth napkins and the drinks don't come in a cup with a lid and straw. emoticon


Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/30/18 12:10 P

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Congrats KDGIRL. Good job, so glad it went well.

I have found the more fat I eat the less I am hungry and I put fats on everything now. I have actually cut back on protein sometimes but not the fats.

I have been following: Carbs 20, Fats 160, Protein 50. NO hunger and the number on the scale keeps getting lower. I weigh every Tuesday morning so tomorrow I hope I see another loss.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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SADIEMYERS's Photo SADIEMYERS Posts: 11,068
4/30/18 11:16 A

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Kdgirl, you should be so proud of yourself!! Congrats on your choices under pressure. Use the scale as a guideline as you are and over time it will show losses if you continue.

Yes I have increased calories and fat, even my protein a bit in maintenance. Otherwise I will be too skinny and hungry. I think my menu today shows 18 carbs, 202 fat and 60 protein. When losing I never was under about 160 fat a day though.

Sadie ~ Pacific Time Zone


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FOGFOG's Photo FOGFOG Posts: 1,480
4/30/18 11:03 A

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congrats Karen!! Thats amazing

TY for the Magic Pill rec-- hope to see it

TY for the info on the food sensitivities James...helpful

Want to add--- that Hardees--yes Hardees is running a promotional right now--You can get your burger "wrapped" They ae offeriing the low carb version --wrapped in huge iceberg lettuce leaves.
Was doing the happy dance that orur 7 hr car ride--I could easily get a burger MY way
haha

"Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudlyshouting,
"Wow! What a ride! Thank you, Lord!" Beth Moore


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4/30/18 8:48 A

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SO proud of you, Karen!! thats FANTASTIC you did so well!! Feels so good, doesnt it!!

the scale..it lies. could be anything..and you handled that just right, too!! YAY!!

I dont agree on the fat...although i always advocate for stop when your body tells you (and thats me..i know plenty of experts that say you must get all the fat in to have success.) but for me the stopping when i'm full works. Personally, i'd er on the side of fat and lower the protein if i'm getting full.
So, so proud of you and excited for you that you did this this weekend!!


ok i watched a bit more of the Magic Pill last night..I dont agree with all of it but i sure do agree with most, so far. Amazing to see the help keto is giving to kids with autism.

This morning on one of my facebook groups a lady in california posted pictures of her local Whole Foods..they have now a "Keto Bar" with a selection of prepared keto foods. She was very excited!! I dont have a whole foods anywhere near me, but bravo to them!!!

Holly
Northern NY
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,841
4/30/18 7:49 A

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Hello!! I'm back from my girls weekend. Had a great time, and did not succumb to the temptations ALL AROUND me!! Ate no junk, had a few glasses of wine, no fruity drinks. Interestingly enough, the hostess, who is a T2D, kept pushing cranberry juice, orange juice (for the fiber?) and other things on me. I just kept saying no. We went to bingo on Saturday (I know - we are a bunch of crazy girls) and it was birthday night. Free cake for everyone. My friends all ate cake, it looked gross to me. My T2D friend ate it and said "I know I shouldn't be doing this" and went back for a second piece. Sigh. I'm still too far from my goal weight to start preaching, but maybe when I get there or at least closer someone will ask me. All I said I was doing was low carb, because that was what worked for me.

However, the scale was not my friend at weigh in day today, and said 2.5 pounds up. I was even expecting a loss after 5 days of doing great - some kind of loss anyway. But the interesting thing was I just shrugged and thought well maybe my loss last time (of 3.8 pound in 5 days) was an anomaly and this just sort of averages out. Still down. No worries.

I followed the thread from the last time I posted and it was very interesting. For some reason, I've had in my mind 20 carbs, 40 protein, 80+ fat. But I've always heard fat to satiety. So you eat your food, stop when full, try and keep it inside the ratios and your body will make up the rest of the fat from your body if you don't eat enough. You have to prime the pump, so to speak, with fat, but you don't have to slather fat on everything if you still have fat to lose. When you get down to your final maintenance weight, your appetite will correct your eating, and you will be needing more fat to get to satiety.

This is sort of what I thought happened. Seems to be with Sadie - she's eating more now that she's at maintenance, right?

Wanda you seem to be stressing out about the macros a lot - the stress may be raising your cortisol which definitely affects weight loss. But I agree with you - tell me what to do, I'll do it. But I still need to know what works, right?



Karen "KD"





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4/29/18 11:26 P

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i'm going to throw a tiny monkey wrench in, James. I had my gallbladder removed in 1991. an unhappy consequence of the Lyme treatment. I have zero trouble eating fat..and havent since the day after it was removed (it was outpatient surgery, only i was from 3 hours away so my surgeon made me stay in ambulatory surgery till the next morning. He walked in at 7 am with 2 plates full of pancakes, bacon and sausage, maple syrup and dripping in butter..handed me a plate..i said..i cant eat that..he said you can now!! and i did..and it didnt bother me.
i hear some arent so lucky, though.


Holly
Northern NY
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/29/18 10:41 P

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Emme (MONTHONY),
your post on stomach issues got me thinking.

People often think that eating so much fat will upset their stomach, and that may be for some people, especially those whose gall bladders have been removed and can't store up the bile.

But I wonder if carbs are often the cause of stomach upset, and dietary fat is just given the blame. Here are a number of types of carbs, and issues people have with them. Often you don't know you have the problems until you cut out the carbs, and then over the weeks and months feel better. Its the slow healing that makes the solution harder to find or accept.

- wheat and gluten (while some people may be celiacs, others may be gluten sensitive)

- fructose malabsorption (gas, bloating ...)

- polyols (sorbitol, maltitol, xylitol ...)

- galactans (found in legumes and beans ... surely eating beans and getting gas is well known)

- lactose (a sugar in milk and dairy, a fair number of people are lactose intolerant)

If one cuts the carbs, and digestion is better after a month or two, who knows which one of those may have been the culprit. Maybe none of them, but my money would be on one or more of them.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/29/2018 (22:42)
James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/29/18 10:23 P

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MONTHONY,
the brain can run on full glucose, or mostly ketones. One part only uses glucose, about 30 grams a day. So even if your brain was as keto adapted as it can be, burning mostly ketones, that part still needs about 30 grams of glucose daily:
www.marksdailyapple.com/how-much-glu
co
se-does-your-brain-really-need/


If you ate no carbs at all your body would turn some protein into glucose for just the purpose of feeding that part of the brain, and the process of turning some protein into glucose is called gluconeogenesis:
www.ruled.me/what-is-gluconeogenesis
/


50 compared to 25 in a day isn't so much. Maybe you'll just slow down your gluconeogenesis pathway for a short while. No need to turn protein into carbs just to fuel that part of the brain for the next day or so, as you ate the carbs it needs, a more direct path to feeling that part. That's my guess anyway.

Relax.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/29/2018 (22:26)
James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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ENCHANTEDALANA's Photo ENCHANTEDALANA Posts: 821
4/29/18 10:18 P

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I've added The Magic Pill to my playlists - thank you for mentioning it!

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4/29/18 9:12 P

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Emme I think you did really well..when you realized your seemingly good choices weren’t, you fixed it!! Ok you went over, but you didn’t let it derail you..I’m so proud of you!! You rock!!

No, pain killers don’t take the pain away. They numb your brain and help you cope with it better. We all deal with pain differently. For me it’s just part of life, and I’m pretty used to it!!

Keep up the great work!!

Holly
Northern NY
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MONTHONY's Photo MONTHONY Posts: 256
4/29/18 8:56 P

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Yesterday I went to a birthday party, and I planned on eating only salad, cheese , and some veges. Every drink was alcohol, so I chose water with lime and what I thought was club soda, but it was tonic water with high fructose corn syrup. I was visiting and didnít notice at first, when I did, I threw the rest out. I didnít realize that Brussels sprouts have so many carbs because I rarley eat them. I had one taste of homemade soda bread with a lot of healthy butter. I figured out that I got 50 carbs during the evening, and I have stayed under 20 all along the past few months. Today, Iím back to strict Keto. I know It wonít be always be smooth, but I really want to change how I feel for good, and lose the weight I gained the past two years as a vegetarian. Iím thinking that too much dairy and nuts slow my progress, too.
The good news is that I donít get hungry and can go all day and not feel shaky ever. My stomach issues are gone. I donít have heartburn and I tolerate eating the fat. You were right, Holly.
Thank you all for your support. I really want to do better and get the weight off.
Holly, Iím so sorry about your pain. I broke my lower back this winter and the pain was excruciating. I was letting out baby screams a lot. Iím as wearing a back brace that helped some, and within 2 weeks of being on Keto the pain was almost gone. I hope you can get some relief. Unfortunately, most pain meds donít work all that well for the pain.
Emme

Edited by: MONTHONY at: 4/29/2018 (20:59)
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4/29/18 8:36 P

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Iíve watched the Magic Pill, too. It was very interesting.

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/29/18 5:38 P

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Got me curious about "The Magic Pill". I will have a look.

James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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4/29/18 4:57 P

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oh good thanks for letting us know!!! I started it, but was so tired from a really heavy work week then a full day of company i didnt get much farther than them getting the group to agree to try keto. truth is i was waiting for the naysaying, and just didnt want to get steamed with more people spewing misinformation.
i'll see if i cant watch the rest tonite. Glad finally someone is putting something good out on this for netflix!

Holly
Northern NY
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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/29/18 4:52 P

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I watched "The Magic Pill "yesterday on Netflix and it was very interesting. It is worth watching.
It is pro Keto. I won't say any more, don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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4/29/18 9:55 A

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Thanks Wanda! I've lived with it a long time and i'm quite used to it. Not pleasant but sure beats the alternative!! Keto was suggested to me to help with the arthritis and residual from the lyme..and it helps IMMENSELY. I've cut the pain killers by half, and my cardiac symptoms have lessened. The CNS problems i'd say were a good quarter better than they were, and i really feel its due to the keto WOE as for 20 some years i've worked every help that is known..I have several friends in the Lyme community I talked to about Keto, they tried it, also, and are also having less symptoms.
I think its one of the reasons i'm so passionate about doing it correctly. I see so many people doing "not keto" but calling it keto, they do ok for a bit then dont, and blame it on keto rather than on their unwillingness to follow the guidelines. It can help so many things....

On another subject..
Last night i was watching a movie on Netflix "The Magic Pill" which is about keto. I didnt get far but am interested to see what it says..never heard of it till i stumbled on it last night..hope its not one of the nay saying ones.

Holly
Northern NY
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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/29/18 9:44 A

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No worries Holly. I'm sorry you have so much pain! I can't imagine what it would be like to live with pain every day. Do you find that eating Keto helps with the pain?


Take care and Keto on!

Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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4/28/18 4:38 P

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Wanda..my brain was malfunctioning last night. not the first mistake i've made!!
I will confess, i have to take a lot of pretty heavy duty pain meds to function..and i try very hard to NOT take any several days a month..i dont want to ever get to a point where i WANT them instead of NEED them. yesterday was a dont take day, and by night the pain was pretty bad. I never take a day off i have major bakery orders, or i do the orders by 9 or 10 am before it gets unbearable.
So very sorry for my silly mistakes!!!

Holly
Northern NY
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/28/18 8:54 A

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Subject: How much protein?

Wanda, with your surgery, you are in a special situation. So you need to do what is right for you. So the rest of this post applies to people who are not in a special situation...

The government suggests values for good health. That number ends up being about 50 to 80 grams a day. Here is one such guideline on protein at 50 grams.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_Da
il
y_Intake


Here too, at 0.36 grams of protein per day for each pound of body ideal body weight: authoritynutrition.com/how-much-prot
ei
n-per-day/


In such calculations you need to use the body weight you think you should be at. If you are significantly overweight and use your current weight then your calculation will be too high.

While these numbers are minimums, I don't see any reason to eat more, and if you get it from real unprocessed food 50 grams is a comfortable amount of food.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/28/2018 (11:51)
James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/28/18 8:30 A

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Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I eat a lot of pork, bacon, cheese but get so tired of it. A good hamburger patty is a nice change. Not to mention that we just got tons of it after having a cow butchered. lol

I need to pick up more avocados. I eat spinach almost every day, too. Must get some vitamins. When I think of the "rules" of weight loss surgery, it was protein first, veggies 2nd fruit 3rd and very few carbs. By the time I ate my protein, there was no room left for anything else, so 90% of my weight loss was eating protein.

It's somewhat of a revised version of Keto. Except I wasn't limited on protein. We were actually encouraged to eat more protein because it makes you feel full longer and we were told that if we didn't eat enough protein, our bodies would burn muscle instead of fat.

Guess there are lots of "experts" out there and it's hard to know what to believe. I'm sticking with Keto for now. Once I get the excess off, I'll go back to the bariatric program. Hoping I lose the excess by July, but it's not looking hopeful.

This group is wonderful!!

Wanda

Wanda

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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/28/18 8:21 A

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Holly - emoticon I should have figured you meant protein, not carbs! lol

Wanda

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/28/18 12:24 A

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Wanda (MOPARMEMAW),
here are my thoughts on going over on protein.

First, if you get 50 grams a day that is enough for muscles and organs and the like. More than that is like having too much money. You can "burn" it. It is extra calories for sure.

Can it slow down weight loss, other than for reasons of extra calories? Maybe. There is something called gluconeogenesis, where the body converts protein into glucose. Does the body do this if you are in ketosis? I really don't know. I've done some experiments on myself. As a type-2 diabetic, rather sensitive to this sort of thing, I didn't measure any blood sugar changes, so my conclusion was that it went into body fat, and didn't impact ketosis at all.

So, all in all, my guess is that extra protein is just extra calories, and not nearly the same impact as extra carbs.

James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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4/27/18 10:37 P

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toss some bacon on the burger, too!! another high fat lower in protein option is pork belly (which is just uncured bacon) i smoke it, you can roast it or fry it.

Holly
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4/27/18 9:56 P

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Wanda, maybe switch it up to a 2 oz patty that will lower your protein. Then add the cheese mentioned.

Spinach munches down small. I eat 2 cups fresh spinach with 3 tablespoons olive oil. It took some getting used to.

Sausage is great or ground pork for getting fat up with less meat. So are the little chicken drummies. The fat shake may be a good option too.

Edited by: SADIEMYERS at: 4/27/2018 (21:57)
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4/27/18 9:07 P

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Wanda. you could add a slice of cheese and some avocado to that 4 oz hamburger which will bring up your daily fats.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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wanda...i think your case is different due to your surgery. i would ask that question specifically...because its a special case. your sleeve doesnt allow you to eat as much at a sitting, so i dont know how you could do just the 3 meals...but someone that is experienced might have some insight.

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4/27/18 8:06 P

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my mistake that should have read 60 gm PROTEIN not carbs..carbs is 20 total.

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 4/27/2018 (20:07)
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4/27/18 7:48 P

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Thanks Sadie. I was actually doing smaller meals, but CSK says 3 meals only so that insulin doesn't spike. And he says that my body won't burn fat if the insulin stays up. It's a dilemma for me and my small stomach.

Tonight I was eating a hamburger patty. 4 oz. That's more than I can eat, yet it's what I needed to meet my numbers. By eating very slowly, then 15 minute breaks when I was feeling full, I was finally able to finish. It took me an hour to eat it, but finally managed.

Wanda

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4/27/18 7:43 P

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Holly - But my target for carbs is 20g, not 60 and like you, I never figure net carbs - only actual.
Holly and Sadie-

I went back to CSK and looked for the correspondence with the moderator I had done some of my own adjustments on MyFitnessPal, so I re-entered what she suggested.

Carbs 22g (I will do 20 or less) 5%
Protein 44g 10%
Fat 166g 85%
Calories TDEE 1753

I am stumped as to how I can get that much fat in, with only 44g of protein. I add butter, Ghee, MCT, Bacon grease, etc. to everything and still have trouble! Guess I'm going to have to make a bunch of fat bombs.


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4/27/18 7:35 P

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just really quick..i have company coming and i'm way behind my schedule. just stuck the pork butt in the smoker..all rubbed and probes in...now to just remember to turn it on at 8 pm!! LOL!!

Wanda..who figured your macros...Jack NEVER recommends more than 60 gm protein for women..unless they are super athletes. 20 gm carb total not net..and the rest fat. no cal restriction..just under 2500 for women. and no less that i think he said 1800? i might be wrong on that one though.

i'm thinking your protein may be your problem.
and please..dont stress. just do your best. you go a little over? just record it and move on. what are you eating for carbs?

those things could help with knowing whats up...

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 4/27/2018 (20:06)
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Wanda,

I think those macros may need to be checked again for Common Sense Keto guidelines. Protein seems high, and fat low. Throw out percents and just track your grams to make it simpler. Holly or I could double check them for you with your age, height and current weight.

My husband had the sleeve surgery 5 years ago, I lived every step of the way with him because medical stuff is not his thing. I understand you have a smaller stomach that fills quickly and some foods may not agree with you like the fatty coffee. You may find that even though 3 meals are encouraged, you may need 6 smaller ones to get enough nutrients in you to meet those daily needs of TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure). Just a thought....



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4/27/18 7:12 P

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Hi everybody ,
It's good to pop in and see how you all are doing. I'm still not completely on track. Since my hubby passed there's so much to do I've been packing getting ready to move closer to my kids and grandchildren . I'm still holding my 16 lb. loss and my sister noticed . it felt good that it was noticed.
James, The bunny mug is great ! emoticon emoticon emoticon

MOPARMEMAW Do your best don't be too hard on yourself .

Never give up on yourself. You are well able to accomplish the goal set before you.


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4/27/18 4:53 P

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Thanks Holly. I needed that! I'm somewhat discouraged, but haven't given up by any means, because I do feel better and I can tell in how my clothes fit that I'm losing inches....even though I'm not seeing it as much on the measuring tape. I'm tempted to use a sharpie and put marks on my hips and waist so I know where to measure next time. Now if I would end up in an accident, the doctors would be scratching their heads at that! HA!

My daughter started Keto too and says it's the first time she has ever "dieted" when she isn't constantly hungry and craving foods. I have to agree. She doesn't have much to lose - 15 lb maybe, although she says 25. I wear a 10-12 and she is smaller than me. I think she has hopes of getting back down to the size 3 she was in high school. She's now 41, so I don't think that will happen. lol

I will keep working at the macros they figured for me in CSK and see how that goes.

So, in your experience, does it matter if we get too much protein?
Not enough fat?
Or in the overall food for the day, if the percentages are close to our target, but not the # of grams, is it ok? I find I keep trying to "hit" my exact macros, which is next to impossible. If I am 10 grams under on fat, I feel like I need to eat butter. Or if I'm 2 grams over on carbs, I feel like I've failed. In the last couple of days, I didn't meet my targeted grams, but the percentages were right on track.

For instance yesterday:
protein target 73 g 20% actual 60g 22%
fat target 121g 70% actual 83g 75%
carbs target 20g 5% actual 23g 8%

Good or bad?


Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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Hi Tracy and welcome back!!! good to see you again!!

Holly
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4/27/18 2:22 P

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Wanda.. I do know that eating to TDEE will initially give most people a gain. then your body adjusts and you start losing. I personally have never eaten as much as jack wanted me to, it was uncomfortable for me, so i just didnt. If i dropped my cals to 1300, i would not lose at all..thats not enough to keep most children alive.

I agree its all pretty confusing. and i also agree they can be testy at CSK..and i dont much like that, which is why i rarely post, i ask Jack directly...but its been a while.

Heres my suggestion. find one theory you like..try to be sure they go along with the most accepted keto woe. Maria Emmerich is very kind and helpful..and she does do work with some lower calorie ways of doing keto. her website is mariamindbodyhealth.com

i totally agree with Sadie..it takes time. you may see initial gains be patient. i waited 6 months to see any loss after my initial big loss. its all about feeling better for me..weight loss is a happy consequence of that. As Sadie said, keto is healing things you didnt even know were wrong in your body. that takes time..we built it, and now we are rebuilding. and that takes time.

i always tell everyone..try not to compare with others. yes you will see people saying they are losing huge amounts in little time. pretty much they either are young, VERY obese, or have never dieted. i'm sure there are more factors, but those three things will make it far easier to lose weight. those of us (like me) who have been on diet after diet, screwing up our metabolism, going from starving to bingeing, etc, are going to be slower, have more to heal, and take longer. another reason i stay off the scale except for a weekly or every 2 weeks check...and i never let the scale rule me. up a couple pounds? cpould be its humid out and i am a bit swollen. down a couple? might not be fat loss..might just be the diuretic effect keto has.

we would all like to be at our ideal weight, and be there yesterday. me, too. but thats not how it works, for me, anyhow. I know i dont cheat. i dont look for ways to fit in the things i'd really like to eat, i dont say..well i can get away with it, its working for me..because it might right then, but, eventually, its going to catch up with me. like my eating too much protein...it caught up. i didnt know it wasnt allowed..i was going with percentages, and mine were 75, 5 and 20...and if you eat enough you can fit a LOT of protein into that..it wasnt until i started doing gram limits on things that it all clicked together and i got results again.

Hang in. You will find your "sweet spot". be as patient as you can...one thing every single coach i worked with told me was like gold. it was that ANYTHING you try, try for a full month before saying that doesnt work for me. give your body time to adjust to it, and start working with the "new information". then assess and see if you want to continue with that specific thing or not. Its served me well....

Holly
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emoticon long time no see! I have been doing low carb, but decided last weekend that I needed to revisit Keto style low carb. I just wasn't feeling as good on low carb and was not losing any weight or inches either. I have far too much to lose to just hang out in a maintenance state indefinitely!

When I was low-carbing, I was averaging about 30-35 carbs/day. I mean not horrible by any means, but not so beneficial. I have managed to stay below 20 carbs/day - except I was over last night (ended with 25 *sigh)

I will try to do some reading to catch up later this afternoon - after the attorneys go to court, I will have free time then (well, free in my mind..lol)

I hope everyone is doing well

* Tracy *
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4/27/18 1:44 P

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Moparmemow,
I've followed a lot of csk. Holly pointed me there too. I do believe Jack's system works. However most people forget that keto corrects hormone issues and other problems in the body and weight loss from it is a healthy side affect. Yes I feel it's important to eat your TDEE as hard as it is for some people. You may gain 5 pounds. That's ok. In 3 years from now does that matter if your health is excellent and you are at a healthy weight? Think of the big picture. Keto has been twisted and morphed by many people into a quick weight loss diet. That is what damages our metabolism and gives keto a bad reputation in some circles.
It's so important to be patient with the process. There is so much more happening to our bodies than the scale tells us.

I think being consistent, eating enough calories, strict with ingriedients and putting in the time you will see results over time. It's not week to week for some people but year to year.

I'm eating about 2500 calories now. Trying to maintain and not lose much. I've had some 3000 calorie days when felt I needed them.

Sadie ~ Pacific Time Zone


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4/27/18 1:03 P

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Holly I wish I understood more of what they encourage at CSK. I upped my caloric intake, stuck to my macros (they even calculated it for me) and gained 5 lb. So discouraging! So now I'm trying to stay below 1300 calories a day still meeting my macros. Just started yesterday, so I don't know if it will help or not. The last time I showed a loss was over 3 weeks ago - up 5 lb since then! I've lost 1" in that time (and wonder if I measured correctly either the first time or the last time).

Some forums say it's ok to go over protein, others say no way! It's hard to know what to do.
Is it ok to be under the fat macro as long as I stay within my carb count for the day? I've asked ?s on CSK and they get kinds of testy with me. lol I've read all of their information, but it still doesn't seem to be working the way intended. HELP!





Wanda

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4/27/18 10:01 A

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That was my point KD..while i got valuable information from the coaches, totally tailored to me, it wasnt necessary. They were quite surprised at how closely I was staying within the guidelines, and just tweaked a few things. I did learn some stuff...they are up on all the newest findings. And the strictness of it helped during my hardest time of year..fall. thats when my "homey" baking really ramps up with the harvesting. otherwise, i wouldnt do it again.

Holly
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4/27/18 7:06 A

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I just have to say that I didn't quite totally understand that you can't do keto "most" of the time and expect results until about a month ago. That's why I figure my Jan-Mar journey was mainly low(er) carb with some oopsies. With the info here (thanks team!) and listening to the 2KetoDudes podcasts, which I really enjoy, I've learned so much.

I definitely will continue with the keto - I don't see why not. I feel good, my stomach is flatter, and I bought a pair of size 6 shorts to wear as "goal" shorts the other day. They don't even meet by about 6 inches right now, but it will be something to try on every other week or so to visualize my fat loss progress when maybe the scale isn't moving so much.

Holly I would definitely try a coach, but I don't have time for it right now. And I really feel like I'm locking in my strategies day by day too. May we're going to Mississippi to see my son, June we're going to San Francisco for our anniversary, and when we get back, I may try it because there's nothing coming up until November when I turn 60!!! I would love to be a size 6 by then. Who knows, who cares. I'll just keep working it.

I appreciate the camaraderie on this team! Now to survive my girls' weekend. I made low carb seed crackers, bought my low sugar wine, have macadamia nuts and have bolstered my will power. Keto or nothing. (thanks Sadie)

James your wife doesn't rule you. You just know how to make the best decisions!! (my husband does the same) We should have more men like that out there.

Have a great weekend everyone!!

Karen "KD"





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4/26/18 11:38 P

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Thank you! You are pretty nice yourself!!

Holly
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You all are the nicest bunch of people.

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4/26/18 10:33 P

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James, I love the bunny mug.

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4/26/18 8:56 P

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As Holly (NIGHTSKYSTAR) just wrote:

"If we see something glaring, we will say so..and people might not like what we have to say but we can back it up."

We want to be positive and supportive, and if someone isn't fully Keto, but is on this team that is fine too. But a agree with Holly, if someone says something like "I eat porridge for breakfast twice a week, because porridge is part of my Keto", then they might not like what I'm going to say.

James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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Karen...I stalled in June. I did everything right according to all information..I had dropped the 130 pounds. i let it get to me. I saved for 2.5 months to get together the money to get a coach. They have you pick who you want..the coaches all put up bios, and you match with who you think you will relate with best. I picked Jack because he isnt keen on fasting, i'd tried it and gained, made sure I was doing it correctly. Thought Jack might have insight.
I learned some valuable stuff. I was eating too much protein..i truly didnt know your protein should be under 60. i was horrified..take my meat too? At the time Jack allowed small amounts of sweeteners..breakfast only. Its him i got the shake recipe from..and i really liked it. He also introduced me to TDEE. I was eating far too few cals...only 13-1400. he wanted me at 2200. amazingly, making these changes i started losing again. when he left ketovangelist, he offered to finish out any clients time. Ketovangelist also said since he left I could pick another coach to finish the time i'd paid for. I picked Mary..she too is wonderful. But has a bit different approach, and she likes fasting, but doesnt require it. Both Mary and Jack are weight lifters..I had just gotten a soloflex, so they helped me form a program for that, too..so it was well worth it to me to have the month coaching. I cant afford more, and i dont really think it would be cost effective..as I said Elaina helps me also..they will all help anyone if you pose the questions in the forums. Elaina often does a "I have an hour does anyone want to ask anything?"
They all post new findings, so you can keep up that way if you follow the pages. Jack is a certified nutritionist and is in the middle of a higher degree in nutrition. I would recommend them highly to anyone that does want the one on one of a coach...for the amount i paid..which was around $2 a day, I got one on one coaching daily, email coaching..they had access to my full menus and activity charts and quickly spotted problem areas. so that was good, too.
And..they check in with me even now, 6 months later. Very kind and helpful people!

I think here, we all help each other here. As it should be!! If we see something glaring, we will say so..and people might not like what we have to say but we can back it up. As i've said before..if you really want to do something, you can find someone somewhere that will tell you its ok..and thats just fooling yourself..then, when it doesnt work its a great excuse to quit for some people.
I have a friend to spoke to me about starting keto last summer. I offered to help..but she didnt call or email. this morning i got a call from her. i've been trying for 2 weeks she says. i dont get it..i havent lost at all, i dont feel better. i think i've gained. So we went over what shes been eating. i gave up all bread..she says..well except 2 piece of pizza the other day. but thats better than the 4 i would have had before!! So I explained why any food off keto is going to not be a good thing. we kept going. She was eating corn. But its a vegetable!! she says..so we went over the acceptable veggie lists, and amounts. she was eating margarine not butter. and then towards the end..well..what do you eat for breakfast. i told her bacon and eggs...and this morning i had cream cheese pancakes for a change. she says..well i have the same breakfast every day..and its really healthy. ok what is it. a smoothie..lots of strawberries and bananas..and yogurt. so we talked about no fruit..and i could hear in her voice she may not be ready for keto yet...and then i took a breath and said..what kind of yogurt are you having? oh, you know..great value strawberry. i said ok..i dont eat yogurt due to i cant stand greek yogurt, especially plain..but i think thats the only acceptable kind..YUCK she says..i'll do without.
so i gave her recipes for keto pizza, and keto taco bake. my quiche..my cheeseburger chowder. cheeseburger casserole. egg and sausage keto "muffins". i said try them. see if you can do with the changes. i dont have a sub thats going to taste like your smoothie but this egg fat shake is like ice cream. the pizza is pretty darn good...
i'm hoping she will try..but i dont know. she quietly asked if i had enough variety to keep me happy. i said my whole attitude on food was changed. its no longer recreation. or pleasure for me. its fuel. i am one of the few that doesnt much like keto food..but most do..so i had to shift my brain from food being pleasure to it being simply fuel..and she actually related to that.
I love to help people. I want to see them feel as good as i do, and i want to see them succeed. thinking all good thoughts that she will jump on board the keto wagon!!

Holly
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4/26/18 1:44 P

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Congrats Fogfog!

Love the mug James!

Kdgirl, yes we get great advice from these people, for free! Thank you Holly and James

Sadie ~ Pacific Time Zone


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4/26/18 1:03 P

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My wife has told me that she doesn't like me drinking coffee out of beer mugs. So I found this other "mug" ...



Drinking from the bunny mug proves I'm self confident. Right? Or can it mean something else? Naw, I don't think so. I'm not sure. No, no, I'm self confident and assertive.

Nobody tells me what to do.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/26/2018 (13:15)
James


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4/26/18 12:37 P

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Haha FogFog - wine is the LEAST likely thing I'll give up on the girls' weekend!! But I'm bringing my own, low sugar white, and will limit myself. I hear there is also a drink she is serving called a Pink Bikini - vodka, pink lemonade Crystal Light and Diet Sprite. I think that also may work for me, even though I rarely use artificial sweeteners. Once in awhile is okay.

The hostess is already saying she's making cheesecake, trail mix, cheese and crackers, and some other such stuff. I quit listening after she said she'd have chicken and salad stuff. Whatever is served, I love James' suggestion to say "sure I can have it, but I choose not to right now". The focus will not be on me anyway - the hostess is a newlywed (at 58) so we'll all want to hear her stories.

I have only been strict keto for a little over a month right now. I just figured out I was doing low carbish before that, from January 10th and on. So I have plenty of time to figure out what works for me. Right now, just doing what I'm doing is working fine. I'm losing about a pound a week? Average. That's fine for me, as long as it is fairly consistent. When I get to a plateau, I'll shake things up and see what I need to do then.

Holly I've heard of some of those people - if I ever need individual coaching, I know where to start!! BTW - I think I'm getting excellent advice (for free - thank you very much) here!!

Karen "KD"





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4/26/18 11:51 A

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THATS a great victory, FogFog!!

Holly
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4/26/18 11:07 A

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Looove this Janes

"Here is a little advice on the situation. When some of my relatives said things like:
"Can't you eat cake?" ( fill in the food you like).
I said:
"Oh, I can eat cake, but I choose not to." "


A few weeks ago I did go to friends' home --I had been there for a dinner and had eaten a bit off keto (polenta) and had skipped the alcohol successfully only to fall flat at dessert which was a bummer...
Fast fwd to this week at their home and they were nice to know I gave up wine. They did not ask if I wanted any--and I stuck with water.





"Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudlyshouting,
"Wow! What a ride! Thank you, Lord!" Beth Moore


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4/26/18 9:55 A

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KD Jack is Jack McAnespy. He was my first keto coach..extremely strict, but he gets results. He own Maritime nutrition and fitness, is a body builder. He was fat, too..hes been doing strict keto for i think 12 years now, knows the ins and outs, follows all the new protocols. He has a page on facebook called "Common Sense Keto" He was a coach with Ketovangelist, one of the top sites for Keto out there.
When he left Ketovangelist to do his own nutrittion counseling, I was halfway through the coaching I had saved so long for. He didn't dump any clients, but followed through on the entire time that was signed up for, but then Ketovangelist also let you pick a coach from them to finish the time..I was lucky enough to get Mary Flaherty, another expert coach..and became friends with Elaina Wang, yet another coach for Ketovangelist. All are fantastic, all have slightly different approaches. Mary does carnivore keto..and will help if someone wants to try that. Both Mary and Elaina advocate fasting. Jack does not, but IF you choose to he wants you to do breakfast to breakfast, no more than 2-3 times a week, never 2 days back to back. And only if you are a really tough case and nothing is working. He outlines his reasons he doesnt like it, and they make total sense. I also see the pull to fasting for some..its a personal decision i dont think either is wrong or right...just a tool as with anything.

Hoping your girls weekend is fun, KD!! I just dont even say anything when i'm with others. When they offer me something not on keto i smile and say thanks!! But i'm not hungry right now...and if they push and wont stop i take a little and just push it around then dump it.

Holly
Northern NY
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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/26/18 9:24 A

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MOPARMEMAW we have the same goal. I'm short 5' 2" and goal weight is 150. I an not aiming for skinny, just a comfortable weight for me. I have 25 pounds more to lose.

When you fast breakfast to breakfast be sure to drink a lot of water, tea, black coffee etc all through the day so you do not dehydrate. It's really important. I take my supplements with breakfast meal.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/26/18 9:14 A

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KDGIRL- WOW 58 cents for an avocado! Here on the east coast they sell for $2.50 each, I get a load of them on sale when they are 88 cents. I buy them green and they keep well in the refrigerator just take a few out each day, Keep strong on your weekend away. You are doing so well, don't let anyone derail you. Have a blast!

James thank you. You always have such good advise, "I can eat cake, but I choose not to." I have found strength here to stand my ground as to what I will and will not eat.

Tomorrow morning I start my first breakfast to breakfast IF day.



Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/26/18 8:51 A

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I'm taking the car in for service today. Both sliding power doors on the van don't work. Probably a fuse (I'm hoping). There are some other problems too.


I'll be waiting at the dealership while it is worked on. So taking my computer with. They have free coffee and doughnuts, and this could take a few hours. So I'm taking some things with. Cheese sticks, meat slices, my fake waffles with butter and peanut butter on the inside (like a sandwich). I will drink the free coffee.

Just like the Scout motto: "Be prepared."

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/26/2018 (08:52)
James


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4/26/18 8:44 A

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Karen (KDGIRL),
just stick to your guns, and do what is right for you. It may be a little tough with blow back, but the alternative, of eating everything that everyone else eats, just to fit in, and not get comments has its own other mental consequences (and of course physical ones too).

Why did I give in to peer pressure, when I know what is right for me? You'll be unhappy with your choices of what you did to avoid a little "blow back". So in the long run it will be something one way or the other. Go with you being happy with your choices and staying on track.

Here is a little advice on the situation. When some of my relatives said things like:
"Can't you eat cake?" ( fill in the food you like).
I said:
"Oh, I can eat cake, but I choose not to."

In choosing not to, it puts you in control, rather than you at the mercy of having a diet plan forced on you. Just subtle wording really, but I think quite important. If anyone asks about why you choose not to eat cake, tell them its empty calories. People do tend to understand that concept.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/26/2018 (08:45)
James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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KDGIRL's Photo KDGIRL Posts: 3,841
4/26/18 7:27 A

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Love this thread!! So many things to think about!

Kathleen thanks for the avocado tip! The avocados are about 58 cents here in Texas - and I do love them. I will go get some next time I go to the store!

Holly remind me again who Jack is? You referenced him a few posts ago. I also agree that everyone has to figure out what works for them. And change things up if whatever works for you stops working. I totally agree about no snacks. Just meals. But for my lifestyle, eating with my husband at night is more important to me than losing quicker. It's one of those trade offs. I can't imagine the only way I would lose would be to breakfast-breakfast fast.

Sadie maintenance is a long time off for me. But I am enjoying hearing how you and others are faring because it's what I am aspiring to.

Tomorrow I'm going to a girls weekend. First one where I'm planning on staying keto. No going off just for the weekend, no eating carbs to soak up the wine. I'll have wine, but just a glass, not two (or three) and I definitely will not be eating whatever the dessert of the day is. How much blow back I get will be the interesting factor.


Karen "KD"





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4/25/18 11:33 P

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thats why snacking is discouraged. my coaches say three distinct meals no snacks..due to that very reason. theres so much to this!!

Holly
Northern NY
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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/25/18 11:24 P

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KDGIRL you mentioned you liked avocados, so do I. I have half every morning.

The trick to keeping an avocado from going brown is after you split it leave the PIT in the side you are saving. I usually put a little plastic wrap over it and it will stay green as long as it has the pit in it.

Kathleen in PA
It's not a diet, It's a lifestyle change,


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/25/18 10:48 P

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Richard,
that is a good point. I hadn't thought of the insulin issue that way.

When you come from a CICO mindset it shouldn't matter when you eat those calories during the day. But then if your body changes its efficiency depending on how many calories it is given, well then from a calorie burning point of view it isn't all the same.

But the schedule of when you eat those calories, grazing all day, or bunched up in a few meals, ... yes I can certainly see how that can make a difference. Something for me to think about. Thanks.

James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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RKOTTEK's Photo RKOTTEK Posts: 21,673
4/25/18 10:13 P

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Holly
Thanks for all the good info.
What I am in fact currently doing is having about 1400-1800 calories a day in a late afternoon/early evening time block of about 2 hours each day.
I find it easy to skip breakfast and lunch an not browse.
2 days a week are either vegetarian or fish
Also inducing brown fat conversion by sleeping uncovered for a few hours in the colder parts of the night.
Not a lot of people seem to realise the insulin spikes from eating and then why continual grazing can be disadvantageous.

Cheers and Thanks
Richard



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4/25/18 10:12 P

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Emme I agree..sure wish i could figure out what works..the biggest problem is its not always the same!

Holly
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MONTHONY's Photo MONTHONY Posts: 256
4/25/18 10:03 P

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I would rather know what works and stick with it, even though it's strict. I do total carbs now, too. I also can't have sweeteners except very rarely and only a tiny amount. I think that I'm a slow loser, but maybe not, since I lost this weight in 2.5 months.
I did some intermittent fasting for a few days, because I just wasn't hungry. Today I ate because I was hungry, but I stayed keto. I wish it was easier to figure out what works for me, and I will just do it.
I'm going to try breakfast to breakfast fasting to see if that works for me.I have to always remind myself to drink more fluids, especially when fasting. I get busy and forget.
Emme

Edited by: MONTHONY at: 4/25/2018 (22:08)
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4/25/18 7:36 P

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oh yes i think you can always drink water, tea, coffee, seltzer. like i said i dont do it myself, but i've even seen people do the bulletproof coffee, though i'd have to hear it from one of the experts. seems to me cream would break it? not sure, though.

Holly
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MOPARMEMAW's Photo MOPARMEMAW Posts: 1,060
4/25/18 7:34 P

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Holly - in breakfast to breakfast fast, it's ok to drink water or tea isn't it? I could never go that long without drinking.

Edited by: MOPARMEMAW at: 4/25/2018 (20:13)
Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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4/25/18 7:10 P

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Karen - I'm 5'2" and my goal is 150...or 149. lol

Wanda

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4/25/18 6:55 P

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I love brussels sprouts, too if I put them on a baking sheet, sprinkle EVOO, then a mixture of garlic powder, Balsamic vinegar, soy sauce and honey, But, that darned honey is keeping me from eating them now :(

Wanda

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE MY "SLEEVIE WONDER".


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4/25/18 6:20 P

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Sadie congrats!! thats great!!

Holly
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4/25/18 4:54 P

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kdgirl, congrats on the loss!! After talking about my maintenance weight yesterday and how I just kinda settled there....... I dropped 2 pounds out of nowhere. Just thought I would mention that to show that our bodies fluctuate so much. Now I'm 152, without even trying. If anything I have been eating 500 more calories a day then I've planned. Cheese, macadamia nuts, olives, all on the go because of busy activity. Tomorrow I could be 154 again. The scale will drive you nuts if you let it.

Breakfast to breakfast fast seems like the only true fast to me because of the waking/insulin/cortisol spike. That is also why I think people have an easy time skipping breakfast. Your hormones are waking your body up and keep you rolling to lunch time for some people. I'm rare and wake up hungry. 9 out of 10 people I bet you would prefer to skip breakfast over dinner.



Sadie ~ Pacific Time Zone


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4/25/18 1:08 P

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From the research i've found its cortisol as well as insulin. its your body's way of giving you energy for the day..so the breakfast to breakfast fast makes perfect sense. I never measure my blood sugar so you sure cant prove it by me, but i'm happy to know you corroberate the studies. While all my degrees are in the sciences, when it comes to diet i dont usually care why, just that it works with minimal effort from me (meaning..i hate weighing and measuring food and being perfect with this and that...kind of like when i was an avid hiker and backpacker i didnt weigh every gram that went in my pack) but this is so interesting, and the things they are finding out, like the foods we always thought were healthy that really arent, really fascinates me.

Holly
Northern NY
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,162
4/25/18 10:42 A

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NIGHTSKYSTAR,
as a type-2 diabetic, I notice that my blood sugar is higher in the morning. I used to think that this was due to inactivity, of not burning off carbs while sleeping.

Then I read about "the dawn effect" or "dawn phenomena". Now I think its part of the sleep cycle, part of waking up and getting ready to be active for the day.

I think I've noticed that a small snack late in the evening (like 10 or 11 pm) may lower my morning blood sugar, contrary to what I would have expected, but I've not done that often enough, or measured anything in a scientific way ... just an impression.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/25/2018 (12:00)
James


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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4/25/18 10:21 A

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KD ok i'll explain. just the act of waking up ups your insulin, effectively breaking ANY fasting. so you have already broken the fast, food or not. Jack always told me.."if you choose to have any sweetener, have it ONLY at breakfast. your insulin is already up so it wont be as bad" Now you cant even mention sweeteners on his site..he doesnt allow them with any of his clients. I dont agree with everything he says..but i know on the breakfast insulin spike he is right. You can go to facebook, search "common sense keto" and you can see all his explanations. Many people dont like what he has to say..hes tough and strict..but many dont have the results they want, either. I'd rather have someone that is going to help me get results than someone who is going to tell me what i want to hear..even if i hate what it takes to get those results, i want honest.

I worked with a doctor a few years ago that has had success with the stubbornist diabetes cases, and he always told me that the minute you get up your insulin is already spiked..even if its a low spike. so it makes perfect sense to make any fasting AFTER you have had breakfast.

I am not diabetic, I worked with the Dr in NYC to try and lose weight because nothing was working. He didnt do keto, but it was fairly close in many ways. he showed a chart, with hills and valleys. the valleys were low insulin, the peaks high. if you snack the insulin goes up. if you starve yourself it goes way down. neither is what you want..you want it steady..the less peaks and valleys, the straighter the line, the better for you and the easier your body will release the extra weight. Somewhere i have the charts..

My explanation is probably not good. But it was the only other time i had ANY success losing at all..and it wasnt close to as good as my results on keto.

As always..do what works for you. I believe that anyone, doing any form of keto, is going to see good results..for a while. Then when your body figures it out its time to get stricter (I started with net carbs not knowing any better. when i stalled, the first thing i did was go to total carbs and things started moving again immediately.)

KD..congrats on the loss!! you are doing fantastic!


Holly
Northern NY
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KATHLEEN624's Photo KATHLEEN624 Posts: 2,793
4/25/18 9:38 A

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Good Morning. We're back to raining here. I'll be walking inside today.

Had my usual breakfast, 1 egg, 4 bacon, 1/2 avocado. coffee w Heavy cream. I always eat breakfast so doing IF by eating breakfast to breakfast is very doable for me.
I am going to try IF this week and see how it goes.

KDGIRL you are on fire! You certainly found what works for you.

Edited by: KATHLEEN624 at: 4/25/2018 (09:41)
Kathleen in PA
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4/25/18 9:27 A

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KDGIRL,

you wrote:
"Although I could pound down some of my favorite donuts with my coffee back in the day. The thought of that now makes me sick."

Yes, that is what makes eating this way possible (and healthy). I can't imagine constantly fighting urges to eat a couple of boston creme doughnuts with my coffee. Thankfully, like you, that thought is a memory.
emoticon

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 4/25/2018 (09:28)
James


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Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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4/25/18 7:53 A

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All of that is very interesting - I'll be so intrigued to follow your 90 day keto course Kathleen!!

But to me Holly - it doesn't explain why breakfast to breakfast is better than dinner to dinner. Skipping breakfast is no big deal to me. Eating breakfast is quite difficult, as a matter of fact. Although I could pound down some of my favorite donuts with my coffee back in the day. The thought of that now makes me sick.

I totally agree that fasting is a tool, take it out and use it once in awhile.

Today was my weigh - in day - down 3.8 pounds in the last 5 days!! And ketones of 5.0. Yesterday I had an accidental fasting day. I was IF until dinner - volunteering at NIOSA (Night in Old San Antonio - a Fiesta event) and was so looking forward to sausage on a stick. A 12" sausage. Yumm. With German mustard. By the time my shift ended, they were out of sausages. emoticon I was going to eat some of my left over fathead pizza when I got home, but it was nearly 9 by then and I dislike going to bed on a full stomach. Plus, I knew today would be a weigh in day and I thought it could only be good news!!

Next weigh in day is Monday. After my girls weekend. Fingers crossed.

Karen "KD"





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4/25/18 7:35 A

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HOLLY~~I understand the concept now! I have to stop eating 500~1000 calories before i start my course~ I have to be up to 1530 and then I can begin! And by doing this my scale has been moving in the right direction too! Surprised me!
emoticon Kathleen

Kathleen is in Florida--Eastern time

Goal date October 6th, 2019

GIVING MYSELF 1 YEAR TO GET HEALTHY! FAILED SO MANY TIMES ;-(


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4/25/18 12:30 A

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I dont know if this will help explain? This came from Common Sense Keto.

#Keto_coach_Jack Explains why fasting is better than caloric restriction

As far as we have come in our understanding of why insulin is the driving factor in weight there are still those that keep insisting on starving themselves calorically, eating several teeny tiny meals a day and wondering why they are not seeing success.

While I am not the biggest fan of fasting, if done right, it is much more effective than caloric restriction. Keep in mind it has to be done right and cannot be done everyday. We need times of feasting to keep the body from going into a state of malnourishment from lack of vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids (protein).

Here are two scenarios that I hope will make sense.

A person with a Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) of 2500 calories is the subject for both:

Caloric restriction (eating at a deficit or CICO):

This person decides they want to eat 3 meals a day and a snack at 1500 cals (1,000 calorie deficit)

Breakfast - Every time you eat you spike insulin no matter what you eat. It just is what it is. While insulin is up you arenít using fat for energy. All they are getting for energy is the calories they ate for this meal.

Lunch - Again we are spiking insulin so no fat is liberated fro energy while insulin is up and in all likely hood the insulin from breakfast has just come down so we didnít get any fat usage or at least not any significant time under a low insulin state.

Dinner - Again insulin is spiked. Like lunch we didnít get any benefit of low insulin so no fat, or very little fat got liberated for energy.

Snack - Same story. Spiking insulin so as to not allow fat utilization.

At the end of the day our poor friend used 1500 (maybe 1600 since he may have had a small time under low insulin between meals) calories for the whole day while his actual need is 2500 cals? Where did he get this extra energy from if insulin was always up? It didnít come from anywhere. It canít.

This is what causes metabolic slowdown. The body needs energy and the demands arenít being met due to chronically elevated insulin. In order to for you to survive the body has to forego various processes that require energy so as it can keep the energy ingested for vital processes like beating the heart and functioning of the brain. It will forgo things like hair and nails and body heat. You get cold and hungry and crank and bald. Sounds like fun right.


Fasting from Breakfast to Breakfast (24 hour fast)

Our friend decides today he is going to have a nice ketogenic breakfast consisting of 5g of carbs, 20g of protein and 60g of fat the fast for the rest of the day. He still have a need of 2500 cals so lets look at what happens.

Breakfast - Insulin spikes so energy is only available from food ingested.

Lunch - Insulin has dropped since breakfast but since there is no additional energy doing in, insulin stays low and fat is free to be released from fat cells to provide whatever energy is required. No problems.

Dinner - Since our friend has yet to eat again, insulin is still low and fat is flowing from cells and satisfying whatever energy requirements are needed.

Snack - what snack? Low insulin so fat is his snack.

So this guy only ate 650 cals today but since he kept insulin low, the body does exactly what it is supposed to and uses that backup fuel source to meet the requirements. He didnít starve or lack any fuel because we have a near unlimited resource at our disposal. So long as insulin is low that is.

I hope this all made sense. it did to me. :)

Again, keep in mind that if you do this everyday, the body will catch up to you. It is pretty vital that we get in our various vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids (protein) that is required to make all the important metabolic processes happen within the body so doing this chronically will not lead to greater success but greater chances of slowing other metabolic processes down.

Remember that feasting is more important than fasting so while it may be a tool in the arsenal it shouldnít be the only one.

Keto on!

Coach Jack McAnespy

Holly
Northern NY
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