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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,294
7/13/18 9:57 A

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So you just buy that meter once, no extra test strips or anything? A one time cost?

How much?

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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6/19/18 12:46 P

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do you mind sending me the link as well?

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8/14/17 6:57 P

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he might be fine with it, but i havent asked him. I would be unhappy if someone put my name on a public site without asking me...

Holly
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,567
8/14/17 6:30 P

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Ah, I see. You don't think he'd appreciate the advertising? He has his name on the Ketovangelist site, and he advertises his business with his name....

Thanks for the SparkMail, though.


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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8/14/17 6:16 P

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I dont put someones name anywhere public..i dont even put my own anywhere public! This is an open team so anyone can see...

Holly
Northern NY
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FIREANDSURF's Photo FIREANDSURF Posts: 171
8/14/17 5:37 P

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Awesome! Thanks so much!

As long as I live, I'll hear waterfalls and birds and winds sing. I'll interpret the rocks, learn the language of flood, storm, and the avalanche. I'll acquaint myself with the glaciers and wild gardens, and get as near the heart of the world as I can. ~John Muir


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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,567
8/14/17 5:12 P

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I'd appreciate the links for both, too, please!

P.S. I'm curious... why can't they just be posted n this thread?

Edited by: _RAMONA at: 8/14/2017 (17:13)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (573,948)
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8/14/17 4:55 P

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its in your sparkmail!

Holly
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JOCYMC1956's Photo JOCYMC1956 Posts: 532
8/14/17 4:48 P

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I would be interested in links to the Facebook group and the breathalyzer.

Jocy, Idaho

I will be Resolute in working my weight loss plan.

I will be Renegade against over-eating carbs and under-eating fat & protein.




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8/14/17 4:30 P

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its in your sparkmail!

Holly
Northern NY
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TRACY6659's Photo TRACY6659 SparkPoints: (96,882)
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8/14/17 4:24 P

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can you please share the name of the facebook group with me too? thanks!

* Tracy *
Washington


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8/14/17 2:10 P

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sent you the link for the breath thing and the guys name by sparkmail!!

Holly
Northern NY
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FIREANDSURF's Photo FIREANDSURF Posts: 171
8/14/17 1:57 P

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I do have facebook! What's his name? Sounds awesome, I'll totally check him out! Also what was the name of the breathalyzer you got? Thanks!

Edited by: FIREANDSURF at: 8/14/2017 (13:58)
As long as I live, I'll hear waterfalls and birds and winds sing. I'll interpret the rocks, learn the language of flood, storm, and the avalanche. I'll acquaint myself with the glaciers and wild gardens, and get as near the heart of the world as I can. ~John Muir


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8/13/17 11:21 P

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you blow into it first thing in the morning. it also measures your BAC..which is obviously wrong..lol. as it says i'm one drunk mama...and i dont hardly ever even have a drink!!!
but i did read that people in ketosis will show alcohol doing a breathalyzer and should ask for a blood test if pulled over.
Anyhow...so you blow into it for 10 seconds or whatever you have..then it gives a reading. anything over point 2 you are in ketosis. one day i did a 1.4 so i'm just fine. most days i'm at .6 or .8...one morning after indulging in some keto candy i got from CurlyGirlz i was out at a .1. i'm sure it was the candy..and it was good info i've stayed away since and had good numbers since.

Holly
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,294
8/13/17 10:23 P

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NIGHTSKYSTAR,
So no other test strips or anything like that? Just batteries? Sound like a digital thermometer.

I'm super curious as I've never tested my ketones, and For $11 plus batteries, this would be great.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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8/13/17 3:18 P

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Fireandsurf do you use facebook? if so i can message you the name of the group and the name of the coach so you can follow him and read what he says about calories. He doesnt like IF, either...does not think its necessary. all his people are successful..i dont have the money or i'd hire him...but he give out plenty of info on both the keto page and his own.

Holly
Northern NY
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FIREANDSURF's Photo FIREANDSURF Posts: 171
8/13/17 3:18 P

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Oooh! That's super cheap! I'll def have to look online! Thanks!

As long as I live, I'll hear waterfalls and birds and winds sing. I'll interpret the rocks, learn the language of flood, storm, and the avalanche. I'll acquaint myself with the glaciers and wild gardens, and get as near the heart of the world as I can. ~John Muir


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8/13/17 3:10 P

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i broke down and got a breath meter...amazon has them i think for $11? the only other cost is 2 double a batteries. i just wanted to see....as i'm not losing so wanted to be sure. yes i'm deep into ketosis. so, i'm going to add more calories as suggested by the keto coach and see if that doesnt get me going again...

Holly
Northern NY
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FIREANDSURF's Photo FIREANDSURF Posts: 171
8/13/17 3:08 P

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Ok, so now I'm confused.. Do I have to have a calorie deficit? I've heard that I do and I don't many times, and I'm not sure. I've been trying to stay within my calorie limit, but I always go over. I'm always still hungry, even though I usually eat 85-90% fats. I'm eating a lot of fat so I know that's not it. People always say eat more fat and I wont be hungry, but I do, and I am. It's really frustrating. I have a large appetite and always have. My portions have gone down significantly since I stopped eating carbs, but when I see the portions of foods that most people eat (and try them) they are not nearly enough for me. I'm 5'9, and not a small girl either.. But I still can't stay within my cal limit. When I try to eat less I feel sick, low energy, and ravenous, and then I can't sleep. This is part of the reason I'm on keto, because no other calorie limiting diets have worked for me. My cal limit is supposed to be 1594, but I'm usually closer to the 2000 - 2500 range, and I still go to bed hungry because I try not to eat before I sleep (which I always used to do). I drink a lot of water as well. I'd love to be able to do the intermittent fasting or eat less cals, but right now I don't think I could. Hopefully it will be easier when I'm fat adapted. I'm thinking of trying to cut my cheese down quite a bit, hopefully that will help.. but it's my favorite food by far, so it will be hard! lol!

When I have the money I think I will try to invest in a blood or breath tester, probably the breath one as it seems cheaper in the long run.

Edited by: FIREANDSURF at: 8/13/2017 (15:09)
As long as I live, I'll hear waterfalls and birds and winds sing. I'll interpret the rocks, learn the language of flood, storm, and the avalanche. I'll acquaint myself with the glaciers and wild gardens, and get as near the heart of the world as I can. ~John Muir


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,294
8/13/17 9:45 A

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In case you don't know it I have memory issues. I had brain surgery a number of years ago and my memories are harder to pull up. They are formed, and there, but often just don't bubble up without a prompt.

So Holly's note is s prompt. She and I have had this conversation before. Like Yogi Berra famously said "It's deja vu all over again." 3500 per pound of body fat, and calculating calorie defects is a first approximation to weight loss. An anolgy to eating more and loosing weight is a person on a tight budget, they may be careful with their money and even save a little. A friend with a bigger paycheck may think there is always the next paycheck, be less budget conscious, and even slowly go into debt.

But this discussion is about testing ketones. I did however want to clear up the calorie, and body fat math.... again.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 178.5 
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RAMBLINROSE31's Photo RAMBLINROSE31 SparkPoints: (986)
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8/13/17 3:12 A

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I use a breath tester the ketonix. I don't think it is a waste of money. The ketostix results is effected by how hydrated you are. If you didn't drink very much your urine is more concentrated thereby giving a higher ketone reading. The breathalyzer measures ketones burnt the acetones.

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PIPPAMOUSE's Photo PIPPAMOUSE Posts: 4,404
8/12/17 10:51 P

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This is such an interesting, educational thread to read.

Alesha
Minnesota
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8/12/17 4:21 P

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i'm going to tentatively disagree with James for a moment.
One of the ketovangelist coaches just did a month long experiment, and took a woman along for the ride. Each ate 5000 calories a day. Both had a hard time stuffing that many down, but they wanted to prove once and for all that calories in calories out was a myth. And prove it they did.
HOWEVER...for it to work you have to do TRUE keto...no non approved foods...
The man gained I believe 4 pounds in a month, and they worked up his percentages..most of his gain was muscle. He went back to his normal keto intake and lost it all i believe in a week...plus some.
The woman? she lost..and had been stalled for a year i think she said? and since dropping back down to her normal calories has lost even more...as i said she was pretty much stalled for a year..but eating more helped her lose more.
They are now doing a study on it that many of us are participating in. There is a grant for it...so hopefully we can have more data soon.
Pretty interesting stuff...I so hate how we have been lied to all these years about things!!

Holly
Northern NY
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 12,294
8/11/17 9:40 A

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FIREANDSURF,
SMCMAHON8 wrote what I was thinking. Yes 30 grams of carbs is on the high end of Keto, and is actually what I eat. However, to loose weight you do need a calorie deficit. You know your grams of carbs ... what are you calories per day?

To loose 1 pound of body fat a week is a 500 calorie deficit per day. It varies, but one typically needs about 2000 a day, and a deficit of 500 a day means eating about 1500. Is that where you are?

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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SMCMAHON8's Photo SMCMAHON8 Posts: 286
8/11/17 1:30 A

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i would think no reason to. keep to your deficit calories level. keep carbs low... fluctuations are normal but the trend should be downwards.

FIREANDSURF's Photo FIREANDSURF Posts: 171
8/9/17 2:34 P

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I bought the ketostix when I first started. I was hoping to use them to figure out how many carbs I can eat and stay in ketosis. I'm doing a mostly vegetarian keto, so my carbs are usually closer to 30gs net. It's nearly impossible to keep them under 20 net even eating the lowest carb veggies possible. I've been trying to figure out if I should get a blood or breathe tester to help me figure out my limits. I'm only on my third week of keto, and I'm pretty sure I kicked myself out this weekend because I caved and had a couple of ciders.. emoticon Unfortunately as you said NIGHTSTARSKY, my ketostix are still showing dark purple so I feel I can't trust them.
I initially lost about 7lbs but now I seem to be gaining again. I don't know if it's from the ciders, or because I've been eating closer to 30gs carbs. It is stressing me out a bit, and I want to be sure I'm doing things right. I know that the pee sticks just show wasted ketones, but I want to know if and when my body is using them.
Should I invest in a blood or breathe tester or is it just too soon to be worrying about everything? Is it just a waste of money?
Thanks!

Edited by: FIREANDSURF at: 8/9/2017 (14:35)
As long as I live, I'll hear waterfalls and birds and winds sing. I'll interpret the rocks, learn the language of flood, storm, and the avalanche. I'll acquaint myself with the glaciers and wild gardens, and get as near the heart of the world as I can. ~John Muir


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PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 4,806
7/11/17 10:58 A

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Ahhh nice dissertation, NIGHTSTARSKY! I haven't been to all areas of this team in quite a while and I found this by searching for the Nova Max Plus. Just tripped over it in eBay while trying yet again to get some greedy seller to lower price on the PrecisionRX Ketone test strips. Then I saw eBay offering this Nova so it must be "relatively new" because it wasn't around a year or so ago when I first started trying to do the Keto thing. But just saw a deal to get the meter and 10 strips for $36-37 and I am likely to get it, knowing the strips are cheaper. ("Mutter, mutter, Abbott" as I grumble away about their greed factor.).

I also got one of the breath Ketone things although a different brand. It's a bit awkward. Think I posted about it some time ago, maybe a blog. The batch I have are close to expiration, if not already. I don't know enough about then to know if they truly degrade the closer to or past expiration they get, or if expiration is more of a cosmetic thing to prevent "shopworn" boxes etc (similar to AA or AAA batteries made to last 5+ years past "expiration" but the expiration date has more to do with stores refreshing their stock...). Ok, I'm off to go other suggested Sparkpeople hits on the Nova Max product. Cheers! And Thanks!! Lotta great info!!

Proverbs 31:17 She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.


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5/7/17 1:55 P

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i have never tested, myself. I read up on it and every bit of info i could find said it was a waste of money as once you are into it they arent accurate? I dont know...and being on a really tight fixed income i have to watch every penny. I found this, hope it helps. I just hate to see someone thinking they arent doing things right because of this kind of thing...Again..please know I am not diabetic and dont know if someone who is needs to use them or not. I'm not trying to be a naysayer for those who wish to use them--just hate to see someone think they need them and go by the readings with the information below...Please do what you feel is best for YOU.

Your first, best, and cheapest option is not to use them.
Ketostix do not measure what many people expect that they do.
Ketostix only measure excess levels of acetoacetate, which is not the type of ketones that correlate with nutritional ketosis.
Ketostix may show negative ketones when your blood ketones are high and then may show positive ketones when your blood ketones are low.
Misinterpretation of what they show is one of the most common unnecessary causes of keto anxiety and wasted time. You can be perfectly successful on a ketogenic or low-carb diet without ever measuring ketones.
Many people are already overwhelmed with learning about keto diets. Adding another layer of unnecessary complexity doesn't help the matter. Often, people are most successful on keto when they treat it as a lifestyle and not a diet. Obsessively measuring ketones can be at odds with attempting to live a keto lifestyle.
If you decide to use Ketostix anyway, please be kind to those who answer questions here by not submitting a question that begins with I know that Ketostix are unreliable, but ...
If you consume few enough carbohydrates and avoid excessive intake of protein, you can trust that your liver will be producing ketones within a single day. That is how human metabolism works.
If you consume too many carbs, you will be kicked out of ketosis temporarily. However, if you once again restrict carbs, you will go right back into ketosis within 24 hours. This is because the liver can store only 100 grams of glycogen. If you restrict carbs, the liver will run out of glycogen within a day and begin burning fat instead. The liver produces ketones as a side effect of burning fat.
As an example of how Ketostix can be misleading, it is possible to eat a high-carbohydrate meal followed by a positive Ketostix result. You may think that you cheated the system, but you didn't. It takes time for excess ketones to appear in urine. Ketostix are showing you what happened in the past before you cheated.
If you have the time and really want to know why Ketostix will not tell you much, read pages 164 and 165 of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Volek and Phinney. This is the section headed by Ketones: To Measure or Not.
If you do not have this book, read this summary:
http://ketopia.com/why-you-need-to-stop-
worrying-about-the-color-of-your-ketos
tix/
Ketostix were designed to help diabetics avoid ketoacidosis which is a dangerous condition involving very high blood sugar and very high serum ketones. If you have near normal blood sugar and serum ketone levels consistent with nutritional ketosis, you don't need to worry about this.
Ketostix only measure excess levels of acetoacetate, which is not the type of ketones that correlate with nutritional ketosis.
The ketones that correlate with nutritional ketosis are known as beta-hydroxybutyrate. This type can be measured only with a blood ketone meter.
There is a built-in time lag. Ketostix are measuring what has happened in the past since it takes a while for the kidneys to produce urine.
Exercise can influence how many excess ketones are excreted.
You can be in nutritional ketosis even when Ketostix show no excess acetoacetate. In the keto-adapted state, very little acetoacetate ketones will be excreted in urine even though blood ketones may be high.
Note that it takes a period of four to six weeks of being in ketosis every day in order to become keto-adapted. Someone who is keto-adapted has adapted to using fat as the primary fuel for muscles and various organs. The keto-adapted brain uses ketones in place of glucose for most of its energy needs. When keto-adapted, most acetoacetate is not excreted. Instead, muscles convert it to beta-hydroxybutyrate and return it to the blood for use by the brain.
If after all of this, you still want to use Ketostix because you bought them and cannot bring yourself to throw them away or because they are comforting in some way, here is how they may be useful.
When you are first starting a low-carb or keto diet and transitioning into ketosis from a moderate to high-carb diet, Ketostix will confirm that your body has in fact done what biology says that it must do. It will show that your liver has begun producing ketones.
Once you are a few days into the diet, you can give them away to a keto newbie or toss them. Note that Ketostix will eventually expire, especially if you keep them in a moist environment like a bathroom.
If you have a medical condition that makes monitoring blood ketone levels necessary or if you are a numbers geek with spending money, you may be interested in purchasing a ketone blood meter and test strips for measuring beta hydroxybutyrate in your blood. The test strips cost somewhere between $2 and $5 per strip.
There are a few meters to choose from.
Precision Xtra - https://www.abbottdiabetescare.com/product
s/patient/pxtra-overview.html
Nova Max Plus - http://www.novacares.com/nova-max-plus/
CardioChek Home - http://www.healthchecksystems.com/CardioCh
ek.cfm#home
Most use one of the first two listed (Precision Xtra or Nova Max Plus). Some say that the Precision Xtra is the more accurate of the two. I've found that readings from these two track fairly closely with each other. The Nova Max Plus has cheaper test strips.
To detect nutritional ketosis, look for a reading between 0.5 and 5.0 mmol / liter. Some experts recommend aiming for a level of 1.0 to 5.0 mmol / liter.
Another option is the Ketonix Sport breath meter. This meter measures acetate in the breath. It does not require test strips.
Acetate forms when acetoacetate spontaneously breaks down to acetate. According to Volek and Phinney (page 165 of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living), it should be linearly correlated with blood ketones. In practice, it is not as accurate as the blood meters in part because it is difficult to breathe in the same way every time you test.
Ketonix Sport (order direct from Sweden) - https://www.ketonix.com/index.php/product/
sport
Again, remember that you can be perfectly successful on a ketogenic or low-carb diet without ever measuring ketones whether in urine, blood, or breath.
In the final analysis, ketone concentrations are what they are. Chasing ketone concentrations often becomes as unnecessary and distracting as Ketostix. Unless you are treating epilepsy, cancer, or other medical condition, the concentration of ketones do not matter too much. You can achieve weight loss and a sense of well-being even with lower levels of ketones.
Focus on how you feel, not on the number. Use ketone meters for interest and experimentation, but don't let the results stress you out.

Holly
Northern NY
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SANDYLEE2012's Photo SANDYLEE2012 Posts: 282
5/7/17 1:20 P

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I have been using urine ketostixs to see if I am in ketosis. Blood is more accurate but also a lot more expensive. I just found another site http://www.novacares.com/ If you go to this site and click on free meters. Right now they have a special that if you buy 2 boxes of ketone blood strips or glucose strips, they will give you a free meter. That's $39.99 for a glucose/ketone blood meter and 2 boxes of ketone test strips. That's a good deal as my insurance will not pay for ketone strips. I am still going to use urine strips but I am going to test my blood ketones once a week. Hope this helps someone else.

Best Wishes and GOD Bless to all!


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