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LITTLEWIND53's Photo LITTLEWIND53 Posts: 21,081
7/2/14 11:04 P

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I went back to the internet to try to find the article that said insulin inhibits ketosis...... But I could not find it. Will keep trying and when I do find it I will post it so you can see what had me concerned.

I have been on Spark for over 5 years but truthfully, I have never been able to figure out how to use the trackers. I could never figure out how to enter my recipes to get my proper portions, etc so I actually gave up...... I know, I know. But the frustration level was too high and I usually just wanted to fling the computer out the window. It doesn't help that I have vision problems and they keep changing things up and then I can't figure out what I need and where it has been moved to.... I will see if I can find that other tracker and figure out how to work it....

Thanks for all your help.....

P.S. The scale is down another pound, so I am going in the right direction.... But I have been so sleepy lately so hopefully that will pass soon....

Linda

Leader: Living with Diabetes
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=10080


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You CAN do it.
You can DO it.
You can do IT.
WANDERINONE's Photo WANDERINONE Posts: 4,515
7/2/14 11:51 A

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LITTLEWINDS,
Hmmm, since I am an RN, and I did do the LCHF diet, and got off the Metformin. I did what I had said, in my long diatribe below. If it were me, I'd get that Insulin Sliding scale, and if you are taking the nighttime 70/30 insulin or whatever, all the names escape me at the moment, AGAIN IF IT WERE ME, I would reduce the amount of the nighttime dose, very gradually after a month of staying perfectly to 70-25-5 of macros. And I mean perfectly. Follow the diet to the letter, and begin to slowly SLOWLY cut back on your insulin doses according to the sliding scale for Regular insulin. Back off SLOWLY on the nighttime shot, oh crap, I guess I'm going to have to ask you what your "doses" are and the names, so I can be more specific. AND MY DISCLAIMER: I am not a MD, I cannot advise you on your drug dosages. I will however tell you what I have seen done by others and their experiences doing so. But you would have to ask your MD before following. I have to say that so I don't get sued for malpractice, or providing medical advice without an MD license.

All that said, the first major goal, is getting on, and staying perfect on plan on the Keto Diet at the macros I said above. My experience in tracking is on myfitnesspal, and for me, it is the most accurate and easily used tracker. SP's tracker always reverts back to SP recommendations, so I quit using and since I was a participant in a 2 month college study, I was required to use MFP to track my food and exercise. Now I am hooked on it and for me now that I have my general diet food choices in it, it's less than 5minutes to track my entire day's food intakes, and exercise as well. You do have to input your foods about a month before you build up a good database, so the first month takes a bit longer, but after that it is a breeze, and inputting a common recipe you make that has measurable servings is quite easy. I LOVE that feature. I also like the pie chart of % of macros that I get to see on my phone, but the pie charts are not available on their website. I always do screenshots of my pie chart page with the 70-25-5 macros to send to my sister via text. We could do the same.

If you wish to have more info, next week I can spend more time helping out. Like I said, MFP is soooo much more Keto Friendly than SP. It's the best tracker for Keto Diet, in my humble opinion, esp once you've got your food database built up, and you can see at a glance which macro, Fat, protein or carbs you need to lower or raise.

Raising FATS is usually the part that people have the most difficulties with, but fortunately there are the little creatures known as FAT BOMBS!! They are amazing and the Reese's one is my go to every day of the week. I am hooked on it, it tastes like a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, a nice big one, frozen. You'll think you died and went to heaven. To think we get to enjoy a treat like this each day!!!!!!!!!!!

It is what keeps me perfect on plan POP, for the long haul. BUT, I need to do more exercise, but I'm also chained to my chair most of the time lately. More to come on that later.

SO, go to the Recipe Topic and I will post it. Again....

Edited by: WANDERINONE at: 7/2/2014 (11:55)
SparkGuy says: "You get one shot at life. Grab it and take control of your destiny starting today!"

I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content.
Philippians 4:11
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LITTLEWIND53's Photo LITTLEWIND53 Posts: 21,081
7/1/14 11:55 P

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Thanks very much, Phyllis Great information.

I don't plan on giving up the diet, at least until I have given it a fair trial, but I was wondering about the ketosis and insulin correlation.

Here in Canada, I only ever found one doctor who agrees with low carb, but I moved and can't see that doc anymore.... Trouble back then -- I was doing Low Carb, High Protein and started having kidney problems so had to give it all up or risk kidney disease....

My current doc had a nurse from ??? Care Network (cannot remember the name) and she was excellent. I could have talked to her about all this, but she retired a couple of years ago and they did not replace her.......The so called "Diabetoligist" I was sent to by my last doc (not this current one) was next to useless and there are no Endo's here to be able to see. They are rare as hen's teeth,m and twice as hard to find....They don't want to deal with diabetics or that would be all they would do....

This current doc does not believe in LCMPHF and will just try to send me back to the Nutritionist who tried to have me have 197 grams or more of carbs per day. I told doc that if I ate that much carbs, I would be in a permanent coma......

Sometimes Canada can seem so BACKWARDS and behind the times in terms of current trends, technology, news reports and medical studies.

Edited by: LITTLEWIND53 at: 7/1/2014 (23:57)
Linda

Leader: Living with Diabetes
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=10080


YOU can do it.
You CAN do it.
You can DO it.
You can do IT.
KRISTINSGOALS's Photo KRISTINSGOALS SparkPoints: (79,046)
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7/1/14 8:41 P

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Rock on, Phyllis!

Goals aren't for sissies!

Kristin

5'9"
Goal weight - 135 lbs.

PST - Las Vegas, Nevada

Rockin' Red Foxes Team


 current weight: 139.6 
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WANDERINONE's Photo WANDERINONE Posts: 4,515
7/1/14 8:19 P

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Yes, I know, it's a long read, I did try to keep it short......but.....OKAY, here's the skinny on Ketosis and Diabetes, and please realize I am not a MD. Just a retired ex-RN. Over the years, while I practiced RN-ing, I saw so many insulin dependent diabetics, who just ate way too many carbs. I'm talking up to 2 or 3,000 grams of carbs a day and I always wondered why they ate so much food in the first place. I'm NOT saying that you do. The other RNs, often said, it was because of all the insulin they take and the amount of carbs which they are told to eat to "COVER THE INSULIN" which to me was always counter-intuitive and it makes sense that if you do eat less carbs that your insulin requirements will eventually go down. However, I have known diabetics who were insulin dependent, whose insulin requirements went down quite a bit after following a KEto diet long term. I also discussed this same subject two days ago with a RN friend of mine, who made the statement that often, a fairly healthy person, may possibly be able to go entirely off of insulin, if their carb intake goes low enough. It depends on whether your body pancreas is still producing insulin. BUT, by eating high carbs, the pancreas may get to the point where it simply cannot produce enough insulin to properly reduce the blood sugars, or may stop producing insulin altogether. You would have to be tested to see if you pancreas still produces insulin. I don't know if you've had this test or not. I don't know if your pancreas produces any insulin or not. Without being tested, while following Ketogenic Diet, you should watch your blood sugar levels like a hawk, and adjust your insulin dosage according to your BS levels. That said, if you don't have a chart, then you should discuss this diet with your "Hopefully" Keto friendly MD or whomever you see for your diabetic med needs. In the long run, it would be good to be optimistic and believe that maybe one day, you too, may not be insulin dependent for the rest of your life.

I say this because, I have recently, about 3 weeks ago, been able to stop taking my Metformin, as my blood sugars have been in the range of 75-87 at any hour of the day, whether I've just eaten or not. Before going Keto my BSs were in the range of 110 before breakfast, and 105-114 2 hours after meals. I am now on day 73, I think, and I've been off the Metformin 3 weeks, so it took what? 53 or so days for my blood sugars to respond to the Keto Diet.

I also want to say, that MOST diabetics on insulin, require more insulin and this is because of the excess carb intake AND they do end up gaining weight over the years due to the excess insulin in their bodies which readily turns all the carbs along with the insulin into body fat. SO, in support of you, There are so many good Keto foods available, A lot of us on the team eat less than 25 carbs a day. and I believe that in time, if you do stay with the diet, that you will find, like I did, that your insulin needs will be lowered, and you WILL be able to lose weight. Unfortunately this does not happen overnight. I wish it did.

SO, give it a real hard try for 2-3 months, watch your BS levels, monitor your insulin needs by your chart of dosage vs BS levels, and if you don't have this Insulin Sliding Scale, then get one from your MD.

BUT, try to be patient, remember I said it took me about 53 days before I could stop taking my Metformin. It takes time and it might take you longer since you are on insulin, it messes with your metabolism. Stick to the Keto diet as perfect on plan--and MONITOR BS's especially if you feel a low blood sugar occurring. This may happen, but it would be counter productive to eat a carb, yet this would be what you would have to do since you are on insulin, but you would want to eat the lowest grams of carbs that you could until your BS rose to WNL (within normal limits) which are NOT above 100 after a meal. SO, get that sliding scale if you don't have one already, and plan your meals very carefully so you are eating somewhat frequently, and keep at it until your body adjusts to burning the fat stores. IT WILL happen, and I've seen many patients be successful. MY MD also said, she likes the Keto Diet for diabetes people, and it works well if you stick with it. ,,,,,,. She is happy, and believe me, my MD is one stern European lady. She scares me, and I do NOT scare easily by MDs. LOL. She is intimidating. She's so stern.

I will also say, that once a diabetic person's body becomes comfortable running on HIGH OCTANE FUEL, like an expensive Cadillac, it may feel uncomfortable at a blood sugar lower than 100 and then YOU will crave carbs like no tomorrow! It's like that Cadillac whose engine starts knocking when lower octane fuel is given to it. IT doesn't like it one bit. It wants the high octane fuel. My sister has this issue and gives in to the carb cravings. I did not. I actually felt better when BS were under 100.

Again, I am not an MD, I am only sharing what I know about diabetes, insulin, and ketogenic diet.

All that said, go to the recipe topic, I'm posting a Keto Pasta recipe....I will give you all the pasta itself's recipe from the Keto-fied cookbook which I did buy from ruled.me for $9.99 and I sure do like it!

SparkGuy says: "You get one shot at life. Grab it and take control of your destiny starting today!"

I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content.
Philippians 4:11
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=63287


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KRISTINSGOALS's Photo KRISTINSGOALS SparkPoints: (79,046)
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7/1/14 6:57 P

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Hi Linda! I sure wish that I had some insight for you.....but I don't have much. Lots of people do lose weight just eating low carb and not going fully into ketosis. But, I don't have any real knowledge/education of insulin and diabetes and ketosis. Perhaps post this question again in this low carb group:

www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
nd
ividual.asp?gid=482


There are so many book-learned people there and maybe one of them can help explain for you.

Looking forward to hearing how it all goes for you.

Kristin

Goals aren't for sissies!

Kristin

5'9"
Goal weight - 135 lbs.

PST - Las Vegas, Nevada

Rockin' Red Foxes Team


 current weight: 139.6 
182
170.25
158.5
146.75
135
LITTLEWIND53's Photo LITTLEWIND53 Posts: 21,081
6/30/14 6:06 A

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I am Type 2 Diabetic on Insulin.

I have been trying keto for a couple of weeks, but so far have not seen results on the keto stick. I heard that the Keto meters are more accurate than the urine sticks so was doing some reading tonight and one article said that if your insulin is not low enough, you cannot go into ketosis.

Will my insulin injections prevent me from ever going into ketosis? Has anyone ever lost eating the keto way without going into ketosis? Real loss, Long term?

I lost a couple of pounds last week, BUT, I have severe edema and often can gain and loose as much as 10 lbs overnight. Maybe the loss was actually water, The swelling did not go down much in my legs so I don't really know....

Thanks for any insights anyone can give me.....

Linda

Leader: Living with Diabetes
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=10080


YOU can do it.
You CAN do it.
You can DO it.
You can do IT.
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