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ROLYPOLYPUDDING's Photo ROLYPOLYPUDDING SparkPoints: (0)
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2/5/10 2:57 P

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" Naked, raw carrots are acceptable as food only to those lying in hutches eagerly awaiting Easter ".......Fran Leibowitz.

" You need it, you want it, you know just how to get it and you will, oh yes you will. oh yes you will ! " .............The Zutons.



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IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
2/5/10 8:31 A

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I would love to see that on a T-shirt: "it takes 60 dumb animals to make a fur coat and only 1 to wear it." Great saying!


ROLYPOLYPUDDING's Photo ROLYPOLYPUDDING SparkPoints: (0)
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2/4/10 5:59 P

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I am repulsed by fur. I remember a big ad years ago of a woman dragging a fur coat dripping in blood with the words ' it takes 60 dumb animals to make a fur coat and only 1 to wear it '.

I am happy that here in NY I am seeing far less of them than say 20 years ago.

We have a great t-shirt that says ' Wear your own skin '.

" Naked, raw carrots are acceptable as food only to those lying in hutches eagerly awaiting Easter ".......Fran Leibowitz.

" You need it, you want it, you know just how to get it and you will, oh yes you will. oh yes you will ! " .............The Zutons.



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IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/25/10 11:00 A

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Yeah, whatever the animal is, it's disgusting. I myself love bunnies, but hopping around and being cute--and wearing their own skins--not as a coat. Yuch. I think I'm gonna hurl.

FLAXQUEEN's Photo FLAXQUEEN Posts: 304
1/25/10 10:01 A

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Besides fur being cruel, it looks TACKY! Fashion at its worst.

The difficult is done at once; the impossible takes a little longer.


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JULIEANDERSEN Posts: 1
1/25/10 9:45 A

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Being vegan is great for your health and helps save animals lives. A lot of companies will do what ever it takes to sell their products. For instance, fur sold as rabbit or other types are really cats and dogs. Nearly 2 million dogs are tortured each year. Cats and dogs can continue to breathe and blink for 5 minutes after they are skinned alive. Do you think it is every morally justifiable to kill animals fo that thier fur can be used as clothing, furninshings, or trinkets? emoticon

CELLOMARM's Photo CELLOMARM Posts: 194
1/24/10 9:06 P

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That's happened to me at restaurants, too, but primarily with cheese. I usually don't find hidden meat pieces but it seems that many restaurants think that grated cheese is a specialty topper for some foods. Anyway, I've never had a problem sending food back and asking for it without cheese. With all of the emphasis on healthy dining and giving the customer what they want, I haven't had any problems from the waiter or chef when I return something. I'm just learning to make sure we all agree on what meat-free and dairy-free means before I order -- just to avoid any necessary food exchange. And, if I ever get "attitude", I'm prepared to say it's because of allergies (which, of course, I don't have). They don't want a customer having a major reaction in the middle of a meal so they're more than willing to give me what I want.

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FLAXQUEEN's Photo FLAXQUEEN Posts: 304
1/24/10 9:46 A

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I agree. I ordered some vegetable minestrone a few days ago and I read the description carefully. It was made with a tomato based broth so I thought, cool! Naturally, as vegans, we examine our food and all I saw was vegetables, beans, and whole wheat pasta. Well, after the 4th spoonful I felt a funny texture in my mouth and knew exactly what it was. It turns out there were two pieces of chicken that each were about 1/4 of a pencil eraser in size. How it made it into the vegetable soup which the ingredients clearly stated vegetarian is beyond me. I was super pissed and wasn't able to eat the rest.

The difficult is done at once; the impossible takes a little longer.


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BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (53,832)
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1/23/10 8:50 P

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Last year I had a vegetable curry that came with a yoghurt sauce poured over the top. I complained that the description of the dish on the menu didn't mention the yoghurt sauce. They took it back :-)
I think restaurants owe it to all their customers to be specific about what is in their food. Besides, they could always serve the sauce in a small jug and let the diner pour himself, IF HE SO WISHED.

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FLAXQUEEN's Photo FLAXQUEEN Posts: 304
1/23/10 3:49 P

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Thank you! As for soap making, I love picking up new hobbies, especially ones that can benefit my family.

I will send it back if I specified that I did not eat meat or dairy. That is their bad and no need for us to feel bad about it. The only thing I do feel bad about in that situation is that I hate being wasteful...but it is really their fault.


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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/22/10 11:14 P

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Nope but I can certainly start a new thread about it.

Since soap making is technique based I will give you my favourite recipe but actual soap making can take time and practice...I think I will start that thread tomorrow.

:) :)

What about vegan food touching meat... like, on the same plate? Would you eat it?

This happened to me at lunch. My beautiful inari pieces were served with my friend's chicken wings (chicken carrage??). I returned them - I felt like a biatch but I couldn't bring myself to eat it.

FLAXQUEEN's Photo FLAXQUEEN Posts: 304
1/22/10 7:08 P

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Jasmin, do you have the recipes for your soaps, shampoos, cleaning products etc, listed in the forums somewhere?

The difficult is done at once; the impossible takes a little longer.


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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/22/10 12:11 P

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Hahaha! Yeah god... help me.

In that turkey situation, which happened a while ago I don't think she understood the nature of my belief system and perhaps in her reality mixing meat w/ veg was alright. So I didn't think it was fair for me to let her have it (this time)... but now that she knows I do except she honors my request. As I would hers.

I totally hear you and relate with you! Some people...

IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/22/10 12:05 P

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Wow, Jasmin! Your MIL reminds me of my ex-husband, who thought nothing of HIDING steaks in my freezer, under the bin of frozen fruit I use for my smoothies!!! Unbelievable! I let him have it! And I would have let her. You just have more self-restraint than I. I hope that doesn't happen to you again. It certainly won't to me.

CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/22/10 12:00 P

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I think sometimes we go through life a little afraid of putting up boundaries with the people we care about - since they may be offended, etc.

Well, I am speaking personally because I have definitely gone through life afraid of putting up boundaries or saying "No".

However, I like to believe that ultimately if this person cares about you, they will understand. Even if it is not immediately.

For example: my mother in law, who KNOWS I am Vegan, apparently EXPECTED me to be OK with her keeping TWO freshly slaughtered turkeys in my freezer. Well, there was only room for 1 so she was kind of out of luck with the other turkey.

It's kind of a sticky situation since, like above, I didn't want to offend her too much. Since she was in a bind, I told her "You are welcome to use my freezer this year, but you know how I feel about meat. Please understand that this goes against my beliefs and I would greatly appreciate it if next time you would find somewhere else to store your turkey(s)."

She kept the other one at my brother-in-law's. She was kind of mad at first, but I figured she would get over it. And she did, and now it's sort of a joke in the family.

Edited by: CD5986349 at: 1/22/2010 (12:02)
IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/22/10 8:45 A

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Excellent, Bilby! I don't eat food just because it's offered either. At least not nonvegan food. :)

VEGFAERY's Photo VEGFAERY Posts: 3,727
1/22/10 8:26 A

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Very well said. I like the part about fuel for the body... that is what it is after all.

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BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (53,832)
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1/21/10 11:59 P

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Bottom line is, if someone wishes to get offended, that's their choice. It's not as if veganism is offensive, morally outrageous, socially destructive, life-threatening behaviour that deserves tut-tutting contemn.
Part of what we're trying to learn on Spark, I think, is to unravel food from its myriad emotional and social connections. It's fuel for the animal, that's it. This doesn't mean never enjoy a drink with a friend or go to a potluck. It means that food is food, and that we make certain choices about what we consume and when for the sake of our wellbeing. And the social and emotional choices we make are made separately.

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VEGFAERY's Photo VEGFAERY Posts: 3,727
1/21/10 10:50 P

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My best friend and her husband offered me and my girlfriend some shrimp that they had been saving. I told her, no thank you, we're vegan, we don't eat fish. But you used to eat fish, she said. Yes, when I was a vegetarian, I occasionally ate fish, but now that we're vegan, we don't eat fish at all. Her: Well, that's a bummer. Him: I think you're really limiting yourself now. Me: Didn't say a word, just smiled.

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SUNNYH99's Photo SUNNYH99 Posts: 2,590
1/21/10 8:55 P

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Very well said, Bilby. I'll try that next time.
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BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (53,832)
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1/21/10 8:17 P

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Out in the real world I try to work on the basis of reasonable assumptions. Example: potato wedges.
My town is smallish and only has 2 supermarket chains. I've seen what each has and neither has anything other than vegan potato wedges. Conclusion: if I was at someone's house or in a restaurant and was offered potato wedges, I would consider them acceptable. Now it's POSSIBLE that they might have been obtained from a wholesaler who sells stuff I haven't seen in the chains, or that they have been cooked in a pan along with something else, etc., BUT, to me it's a REASONABLE ASSUMPTION that they are vegan.

I've never found it a problem refusing food. Ever. It's all in your head. Imagine vocalising the moral debate and having it with the person who is doing the offering.
OTHER: I'd like you to have this cake. I know you're vegan but it has egg in it.
YOU: Sorry I can't eat it.
OTHER: I'll be disappointed if you don't have any.
YOU: Why?
OTHER: Because I made it.
YOU: I'm not refusing because you made it. I'm refusing because I have guidelines about what I eat.
OTHER: But won't you go beyond those guidelines for me?
YOU: Going beyond those guidelines makes me unhappy. Are you saying you will only be happy about the cake if I'm unhappy?
OTHER: No. Of course I want you to be happy about the cake.
YOU: I am. I am happy you offered it to me and treasure the thought behind it. I just can't eat it.
OTHER: Thank you. Don't eat it.

Edited by: BILBY4 at: 1/21/2010 (20:19)
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SUNNYH99's Photo SUNNYH99 Posts: 2,590
1/21/10 3:55 P

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Great topic, Jasmin!
I draw the line at medications, too. I stopped carrying leather purses and wallets but still wear Uggs and Birkenstocks (which I keep getting resoled)that have life left in them. I don't buy wool or silk items anymore but am using up what I have. My gym shoes are pregan with some leather and they still do the job, so I wear them. The next purchases will be vegan for sure. I already wear vegan dress shoes and Rocket Dogs and Chuck Taylors (I'm 58 and gray-haired, so I get comments!) We have leather furniture at home and I won't opt for replacing it with leather, but my DH probably would want to. I have an old, classy leather couch in my office that is getting cracked and worn, and I'll replace it with cloth when it goes. My old office chair is partly leather and until I have to replace it, I'll use it. I've been vegan less than a year.

I don't eat honey, but I too don't wish to offend people who care about me, so when DH shopped for my fruit and soymilk and got me Kashi vegan frozen entrees, I was grateful and chose not to get pissy about the Skippy Honey Roast Peanut Butter. I just asked him if next time he could get the regular kind. Friends came over in November and the wife brought homebaked cranberry bread. She said, "I know you're vegan but it has an egg in it." I agonized over this during dinner and then opted to eat a slice and not make an issue out of it.

That's my story...
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FUNNYSUNNY123's Photo FUNNYSUNNY123 Posts: 1,553
1/21/10 2:20 P

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I will chime in here too. I do not eat anything with meat or meat broth in it. I will also avoid anything with egg or milk in it. I will still, occasionally, though not very often, eat honey. Last year, I bought a wool coat from Goodwill. It was $10 and I really needed a coat. I would not buy a new wool coat, however. I try to avoid leather, but I think my running shoes might have leather trim. (Need to check that out.) I try to buy sugar from sugar beets to avoid the sugar debate.

As I mentioned in another post however, there was one time I ate cake knowing that it had egg and dairy in it. It was at a friend's wedding and my friend and her sister had made and decorated the cake themselves. My friend was talking to me when they were passing out pieces (very small wedding, mostly family) and I felt it would be inappropriate to refuse the cake.

Marsha

"I can do ALL things {including losing the 85 extra pounds} through Christ who strengthens me." Phillipians 4:13

I do not want to be a weak and delicate woman. I want to be an iron goddess.


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VEGFAERY's Photo VEGFAERY Posts: 3,727
1/21/10 1:32 P

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I will say that my family and I eat a mostly vegan diet, in that I do not use eggs, meat or dairy in my cooking. We are slowly fazing out products in the household that were made with "milk solids", "egg whites", etc. Once they're used up and gone, we don't replace them. I read ALL labels before buying food now to ensure there are no additives I don't want there. We generally eat whole foods anyway, but in things like cereal, juices, pasta.. I like to make sure the food is vegan.

I still wear my leather boots and shoes, although I've stopped carrying leather purses. I will not replace my footwear with leather that is new, but if I can find a good pair second hand I will buy them. At some point a cow donated their skin for those shoes, I would never buy them new though.

I will not replace anything just to get it out of the house as far as chairs, etc. but then I don't think I have anything that is real leather anyway.

Edited by: VEGFAERY at: 1/21/2010 (13:32)
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IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/21/10 1:05 P

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Confectioner's glaze??? Jeez, I am so bummed! I thought it was just made from sugar. Duh!!!!!!!! I will give antibiotics to my kids if the doctor indicates infection, but I have to be feeling like I'm on death's door, which I did a year ago, before I'll take any meds. But I will take them. A sick activist is pretty useless for the animals, I would say. Gotta be healthy. If I'm not good for me, I'm no good for anyone.

WILLBOYWONDER's Photo WILLBOYWONDER SparkPoints: (33,955)
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1/21/10 12:51 P

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For me, I go to great lengths to avoid the intake of animals, though I do not particularly identify with the term ďveganĒ as it is used in that definition you posted. My doctor calls what I am on a high fiber low fat diet, one rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans and lentils, nuts, seeds, no dairy products, no refined sugars or foods that contain them, and only whole wheat pasta. Well, it happens to be the way vegans eat but vegan isnít necessarily a label I embrace. But anyhow, I digress. I no longer drink any alcohol, since it is too difficult for me to get vegan alcoholic beverages. I also donít eat white sugar.

As a general rule, I donít have a clear cut line. I try as best I can to follow my plan. Whether or not I succeed is always dependent on the other people I may be dining with. If my meal is a vegetarian meal but not completely vegan, I wonít squeal about it. Dairy or chicken broth is usually the culprit that people have added to make most things non-vegan. If I get served something, Iíll muddle through it.

My choices are based on health, as animal-free diets provide the most healthful way of eating. So, I still wear animal clothes and have animal-based furniture in my home.


~~ Will ~~

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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:48 P

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Yes actually I was going to mention that too.

Personally for me - my line is with medication. Thank goodness Veganism is a pretty healthy lifestyle!

But if one is direly sick and the only option is to take a medication that has been animal tested (especially a child) then I say I think that's more important.

I did get rid of my pregan shoes - I donated them and started on a clean slate. I make most of my own bath products (soap, shampoo and moisturizer AND cleaning products).

Edited by: CD5986349 at: 1/21/2010 (12:49)
SMACKYTOMATO's Photo SMACKYTOMATO Posts: 82
1/21/10 12:44 P

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I take medicine that was most likely tested on animals.
I wear pregan athletic shoes that have a bit of leather, but only at home.
And very occasionally, I'll have a few pieces of candy that has confectioner's glaze (which is bugs).
Oh, and when I'm in a tight spot I'll use non-vegan toiletries.

I suppose I could cut out the last three, but the medicine is a neccesity.
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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:43 P

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Really!?!?!? That sounds pretty awful to me.

Oh god that is the last thing I would want to sound like! Because that is not what I am trying say - I apologize profusely if that is how I am coming across.

I was thinking more along the lines of my previous post - using up old items.

IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/21/10 12:39 P

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Vegan Outreachish :) Their philosophy is to make veganism look easy, even if it means doing stuff like eating nonvegan food.

CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:37 P

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Oh for sure! Definitely there's the line going the other way. I totally agree!

I am just thinking, is all. I think it is something to contemplate.

I would also not eat egg based pasta to make veganism look easier.

What is VO-ish?

IVY999's Photo IVY999 Posts: 228
1/21/10 12:34 P

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I don't think there is a line to be drawn. It's more on a case by case basis. I like what Vegan Outreach has to say. What you said is very VO-ish, but I will not eat egg-based pasta just so veganism doesn't look too hard to people. I just can't. So there's the line going the other way, too.

CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:34 P

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I have a few Vegan friends who feel once they decided to be Vegan, they wanted to buy new Vegan furniture.

To some, they would feel this is a waste. Using up pre-vegan materials is more economical and environmentally friendly. I know some may disagree, and while I am a very serious Vegan, if I had old leather furniture from pre-vegan days I would still use it... probably.

Thankfully we only have fabric sofas, etc.

KANESMOM2's Photo KANESMOM2 Posts: 413
1/21/10 12:33 P

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JASMINSCHADE,

Could you please expound upon this, a bit ?


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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:29 P

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Yes indeed - but I am showing two examples.

The question is not about whether or not you avoid these two items, I am asking where you (or anyone) personally draws the line.

I also don't find either of those to be too difficult to avoid - although they are still definitely debated.

HBLAKEY's Photo HBLAKEY Posts: 356
1/21/10 12:25 P

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It's quite EASY to avoid these things. There are plenty of vegan alcoholic drinks and buy organic sugar. TADA!

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CD5986349 Posts: 513
1/21/10 12:17 P

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(Trying to start a ***friendly*** debate)

Do you have a line, where you say "ok I can't really do anything about it."

Veganism is generally defined as:

A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude ó as far as is possible and practical ó all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose...

When, to you - is it no longer practical?

I can think of two hot debates:

White Sugar and Alcoholic drinks.

What are your thoughts? Are there any areas where you say, "ok that's just not practical".

Cheers!

Edited by: CD5986349 at: 1/21/2010 (12:58)
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