Group photo
Author:
MAJORDADVT's Photo MAJORDADVT Posts: 9,105
10/17/09 6:27 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I don't think that there has ever been a President who did not, out of ego, frustration, or other motivation (noble or selfish), attempt to increase the power of the executive branch. The possible exception is William Henry Harrison (one of my favorite Presidents) who, after giving a four-hour Inaugural Address, caught cold, developed pneumonia, took to bed, and died one month after taking office -- he did absolutely no harm to the Republic!! Anyway, whether given power by Congress (e.g. Washington, Lincoln, FDR, G.W. Bush, etc.) or self-aggrandizing it (e.g. Jefferson, Monroe, Polk, T.R., etc.), it is the nature of the office to seek to accrete power to accomplish one's objectives -- be it to buy Louisiana, build the Panama Canal, free the slaves, or pack the Supreme Court.

"Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseperable"


 current weight: 140.2 
173
164.75
156.5
148.25
140
PC_BOB's Photo PC_BOB SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (6,180)
Posts: 3,309
10/17/09 3:54 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I forgot about good old Abe. He is being held up, now, as an example of a socialist, by the socialist's. Had he not been able to abolish slavery, we may never have entered the Industrial Revolution. Prior to that, the only way huge projects got done was with slave power. Without slavery, perhaps the revolution would have come 50 years sooner. The machinery made human power almost irrelevant.

I lumped the two houses under one heading, Congress, simply from laziness, I guess. I know how they work. Or, should I say, how they are SUPPOSED to work? As Majordad notes, sometimes it all works out the way it's supposed to. Let's hope it does this time!

Learn from the mistakes of others. Life is too short to make them all yourself.


If liberals had any brains, they'd be Republicans




 current weight: 218.0 
250
231.25
212.5
193.75
175
MAJORDADVT's Photo MAJORDADVT Posts: 9,105
10/17/09 3:20 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
A few points:

1. CONGRESS is the complete Legislative Branch of the federal government. It is comprised of two bodies (or "houses"), the House of Representatives and the Senate. A bill passed by one house or the other goes to the remaining body for consideration -- a bill passed by the Seante doesn't go to "Congress", it is alrady in Congress -- it goes to the House.

2. The so-called "Baucus" bill was reported favorably out of the Senate Finance Committee -- it has NOT passed the full Senate. In fact, there is a competing bill under consideration by another Senate committee at this time. Additionally, there is at least on bill under consideration on the House (the so-called "Pelosi Bill") and are probably others working their way through House committees as well. Either body, when it considers any of these (or other) bills as a whole body can pass it, defeat it, or amend it -- or send it back to a committee for further evaluation.

3. If a different (even by a single word) version of a bill is passed by each body, the competing versions are sent to a Conference Committee made up of members of both bodies for reconciliation, if possible. If they achieve consensus, the agreed-upon version is acted on by both houses without amendment and sent to the President for signature or veto. If they cannot agree on a single version, the process starts all over again.

4. Single-party control of the Legislative and Executive Branches has occurred often -- the last time was 2001-2007 unde George W. Bush. The Democrats/Liberals though that that was a dangerous situation -- Eisenhower, Truman, Clinton, George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan among others all faced opposition control of the Congress for part or all of their terms. Sometimes it is a check and balance on Executive power, other times nothing gets done, still other times, consensus is reached for the overall good.

"Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseperable"


 current weight: 140.2 
173
164.75
156.5
148.25
140
HYACINTHBUCKET's Photo HYACINTHBUCKET SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (275)
Posts: 3,684
10/16/09 8:35 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Acconuntability emoticon if there were any accountability in the house we wouldn't be at this point . Congress doesn't have to live with their mistakes We Do, so what do they care. The healthcare plan won't affect them and their families. If it did this woudln't be an issue


Hyacinth,

"B-u-c-k-e-t. it's pronounced bouquet."
Live your life in such a manner that if someone speaks badly of you no one will believe it.
IX XI
If you don't stand behind our troops, please feel free to stand in front of them.
KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS
www.flickr.com/photos/14548372@N02





 current weight: 0.0  under
5
2.5
0
-2.5
-5
DUMBSKITTY's Photo DUMBSKITTY Posts: 1,057
10/16/09 3:59 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
WELL said, Bob. I couldn't have said it better myself. While I agree with you that FDR was a MAJOR instigator in the mess that we now find ourselves in, sometimes I have to blame Abraham Lincoln as well. Granted, I'm GLAD that the Union won the Civil War so that the horrible practice of slavery could be abolished and so we weren't fractured into two sepeartate (and weaker) countries...but I really think the victory was a huge blow to states and individuals' rights. It was the federal government putting the kobash on the will of a vast number of the population.

The fact is, the country isn't perfect, and no one is ever going to agree on everything. But I can't reconcile how what's going on today--the corruption, the blatant disdain for the citizen (as you pointed out, Bob), the HUGE power play that we're seeing--with being for the greater good of our posterity.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. --Ephesians 6:12


 Pounds lost: 105.0 
0
43.75
87.5
131.25
175
PMSLIVES's Photo PMSLIVES Posts: 21,704
10/16/09 3:32 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
This is something that explains some of the shenanigans the congress uses:

www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=3
37
40


Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7
In GOD we trust
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains " -
Patrick Henry
Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each otherís faults because of your love.
Ephesians 4:2 NLT
PC_BOB's Photo PC_BOB SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (6,180)
Posts: 3,309
10/16/09 3:00 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
When did we begin to hand over so much power to our Federal government that THIS is the predicament we find ourselves in?"

As near as I can tell it started with FDR, back in his first term. He was encouraged to 'Do Something' about the awful economy and the unemployment problems as the Great Depression was winding down. So, he set up Social Security. That, at least, provided some help for old people. He knew it was a ponzi scheme, though, and would eventually come crashing down on us all. he finally got us into the war in Europe and Japan, so that put people back to work. realistically, that IS one way to end a depression, maybe not the best one. But he also began assuming unheard of powers in the executive branch, powers that were not given to him by the constitution. In fact, they were specifically prohibited. These have persisted to this day, in fits and starts. Some presidents took a lot of advantage and some took less. It isn't something new that Obama just started. But the scariest part is what the congress has been doing lately. They almost entirely ignore the voters and what they want, and instead work on the assumption that they have a mandate to run the country any way they want to. After all, didn't they win the election? And all progressives are convinced that they alone are qualified to decide what's best for America. We, as mere citizens, are incompetent to handle our own affairs. We need someone smarter than us, better educated, more elitist, to tell us what to do, how to spend our money, how to raise our kids, defend our shores, yada yada yada. As you noted, though, we still hold all the aces. WE vote. And our votes can remove them from office and send them to the dust bin of history. That is, IF we can all get on the same page. IF we can the our apathetic members to stand up and be heard. Or stand up and vote. We lost this last election by an oh so small margin, but by enough to have given us a landslide, if every member was heard from. The other side relies on apathy to let them slide in. And slide they did. We will have another chance soon. We need strong candidates, not necessarily republicans, (they haven't done us too proud lately) who can stand up for what they believe and face these charlatans. Call them out for their lies and secrecy. Only then can we retake our homeland.



Learn from the mistakes of others. Life is too short to make them all yourself.


If liberals had any brains, they'd be Republicans




 current weight: 218.0 
250
231.25
212.5
193.75
175
DUMBSKITTY's Photo DUMBSKITTY Posts: 1,057
10/16/09 2:40 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
That's exactly what's been having me so confused...I don't understand HOW these bills are being passed, and from what I'm hearing (and you all are saying) there's really no rhyme or reason to what Congress can try to accmomplish and worse, HOW it goes about doing it.

I'm VERY disturbed by this. Where is the accountability in such a system? (Oh I know...it's during the elections--but what are we supposed to do in the MEANTIME.)

I agree with you Bob--it IS sickening that our Congress apparently can opperate on whatever whim it chooses.

It's sickening that it wasn't OK to "set aside the rules" when Joe Wilson called it like it was to Obama's face, but we can do it now in order to further propel ourselves into "commie bliss."

It's sickening that our Congress is so "confused" by the rules that they practically tar and feather a President for "starting" an "illegal war" that they gave consent for and are hoping against hope to find a loophole that will allow prosecution of that President's administration.

It's sickening to me that our Congress feels the need to "break the rule" of doing the will of those who have appointed them.

It's sickening to me how "liberty and jusice for all" has become such an obsolete rule that it's often ignored in the interest of ensuring long, entreprenurial, political careers.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you all get the idea. It just blows my mind how much the hands of the American People seemed to be tied on this. When did we allow this to happen? When did we begin to hand over so much power to our Federal government that THIS is the prediciment we find ourselves in?

Edited by: DUMBSKITTY at: 10/16/2009 (14:43)
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. --Ephesians 6:12


 Pounds lost: 105.0 
0
43.75
87.5
131.25
175
11-RENEWAL-20's Photo 11-RENEWAL-20 Posts: 3,417
10/16/09 2:39 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
If we make it to another free and open election; we can only hope that people will remember to vote for candidates who vow to listen to the people...I know they all say something like that but investigate before you vote...find out more about their background and their past actions before you give them your precious vote. Don't blindly follow anyone...

ONE DAY AT A TIME!!!
Do Not Expect More From Others Than You Are Willing To Do Yourself...Sharon



 current weight: 146.0 
175
165
155
145
135
PC_BOB's Photo PC_BOB SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (6,180)
Posts: 3,309
10/16/09 2:18 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
That's EXACTLY what they are doing! Yesterday, the Senate passed their version of the health care reform bill and sent it to Congress. Their bill did NOT have the 'public option.' Right away, Nancy Pelosi started talking about how it would be folded into THEIR bill, which DOES have the 'public option.' So, all the hard work that has been done to make a pseudo-partisan bill that might be minimally acceptable to all sides has benn undone and the congress will simply ram THEIR version of 'healthcare reform' down our throats. WHY? Because we are 'obstructionist's' (Nancy's word) THEY are in charge and THEY know what's best for all of us, (Since we simpering idiots do not) and THEY will give us what we need. The drug manufacturers will be ecstatically happy. The insurance companies will be ecstatically happy. The hospitals will be ecstatically happy. The members of the public who expect the government to GIVE them everything free will be ecstatically happy. The doctors won't be so happy. The taxpayers DEFINITELY won't be happy. The average person who has to rely on their 'healthcare' services definitely WON'T be happy. either. But the government WILL be happy, since they will enjoy the praise from all those cool-aide drinkers, for finally bringing them "Progress." For then we will have caught up with all the OTHER socialist nations in the world. And we can all go skipping down the Yellow Brick Road to see the Wizard.

The whole idea is sickening to me. I'll probably need some of their 'healthcare.'

Learn from the mistakes of others. Life is too short to make them all yourself.


If liberals had any brains, they'd be Republicans




 current weight: 218.0 
250
231.25
212.5
193.75
175
PMSLIVES's Photo PMSLIVES Posts: 21,704
10/16/09 2:02 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
It is crazy! They can pass "bills" that aren't even written, that have "fill in the blanks" even after it is passed and can amend things later also. I have recently read that the senate can take a bill that has passed through committee and drop the language out and substitute another bill into it and pass it on as something else.

Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7
In GOD we trust
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains " -
Patrick Henry
Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each otherís faults because of your love.
Ephesians 4:2 NLT
PC_BOB's Photo PC_BOB SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (6,180)
Posts: 3,309
10/16/09 1:26 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
There IS a real danger that this bill will pass, due to the fact that the Democrats have a majority. They can pass this, or any other bill, with no input from the Republicans. The Republicans have been made inconsequential, irrelevent. That's sort of how we all feel, too. We have been, basically, disenfranchised. We have no say, no vote anymore. I heard Nancy the other day say that the Republicans are just obstructionist's, blocking progress, standing in the way. As in 'progressives?' That's one of those words used by socialist's and communist's all over the world to describe their cause. They were strongly in control when FDR was in power, too. Progressives. To me, that is a dirty word. The Republicans have been locked out of the debate, yet Obama still tries to call iot bipartisan. I guess that means, to him, no republicans need apply.

Learn from the mistakes of others. Life is too short to make them all yourself.


If liberals had any brains, they'd be Republicans




 current weight: 218.0 
250
231.25
212.5
193.75
175
DUMBSKITTY's Photo DUMBSKITTY Posts: 1,057
10/16/09 12:41 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks Major, for the clarification on this. For some reason, from what I've been hearing I was under the impression that this loophole was some sort of way to pass the bill without ANY sort of majority...

Do you know any more information about how the Senate goes about doing this?

Edited by: DUMBSKITTY at: 10/16/2009 (12:43)
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. --Ephesians 6:12


 Pounds lost: 105.0 
0
43.75
87.5
131.25
175
MAJORDADVT's Photo MAJORDADVT Posts: 9,105
10/16/09 11:52 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Each house of Congress is permitted by Article I of the Constitution to set their own rules for operation. The House of Representatives operates on strict rules set up to limit debate and has no process for filibuster (extended debate). A simple majority of the Representatives present & voting (assuming a quorum -- the minimum number needed to proceed -- is present). The various committees process legislation and either kill it internally or forward it to the full house for action. A bill can be passed, defeated, or tabled -- put off for further action in the (definite or indefinite) future. So, if the majority, be it one party or bipartisan, reports abill out of committee and has the requisite simple majority of votes, the bill will pass -- there is little or nothing the minority can do. In the Senate, the rules provide for extended debate and , in certain cases (which now appear to cover almost everything), a three-fifths (60) majority is needed to close debate (called "cloture"). If this cannot be achieved, normally no action occurs. There is a process that is rarely used to set this rule aside and allow for action with a simple majority. Thre has been some threat that the Democrats might use this approach to get a health care bill on track for passage, but it would be an extraordinary procedure and needs a number of votes of its own to be allowed. It IS Constitutional as the Senate, as stated above, can set its own rules.

"Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseperable"


 current weight: 140.2 
173
164.75
156.5
148.25
140
DUMBSKITTY's Photo DUMBSKITTY Posts: 1,057
10/16/09 9:57 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Hey everyone...we keep hearing how Obama and his thugs-for-congress plan to shove through healthcare inspite of having the votes. I hate to admit this, but how is that done? I don't remember ever learning in school a "loophole" for passing legislation. Can someone please explain to me what this is, how it works, and where it's permitted in the Constitution? I'd really appreciate it!

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. --Ephesians 6:12


 Pounds lost: 105.0 
0
43.75
87.5
131.25
175
Page: 1 of (1)  

Report Innappropriate Post

Other Spark Conservatives/Republicans General Team Discussion Forum Posts

Topics:
Last Post:
8/27/2018 10:39:07 PM



Thread URL: https://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=0x4683x29109748

Review our Community Guidelines