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LINDAKAY228's Photo LINDAKAY228 Posts: 19,570
11/30/11 9:49 A

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I did like the way they all looked after their makeovers. Becky was my favorite though. She looked so beautiful!

Linda

Last is just the slowest winner."-C Hunter Boyd







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DIVINEPRINCESS's Photo DIVINEPRINCESS Posts: 6,473
11/30/11 9:26 A

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Russell, you were right on it. The makeover show was all positivity, and only the slightest mention of the previous week's unpleasantness. I wonder why Tim Gunn wasn't there? I love it when he helps the contestants, and I wasn't particularly wowed by any of that lady's choices.

But hands down, next to Ramon, the biggest transformation was our girl Becky--representing for the 50+ group. Go, Becky! You looked amazing--and your had a 5 pound weight loss, too. You are really rocking it. You look fabulous.

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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
11/29/11 2:43 P

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I think this week will be less controversial. Makeover week is usually all positive. Hope they all look fabulous.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

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11/29/11 2:34 P
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I agree, Princess. We see edited events so we can't know everything that happens.

~Barbara~

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say....Ralph Waldo Emerson"


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DIVINEPRINCESS's Photo DIVINEPRINCESS Posts: 6,473
11/28/11 2:07 P

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I'm psyched to see the show tomorrow night. John's actions and Bob's comment have certainly stirred things up on THIS Board! And I love it. I can't wait to see what repercussions there'll be in the house.

I've read all the posts--and we're a divided group, but I think that makes for a more interesting board. I like differences of opinion and different viewpoint. My final thought is that, on further reflection, I don't see what Bob said as being "unprofessional." If he really believes John will put the weight back on, why shouldn't he say so? And I don't know the full context of his comments--only what the edited version. I do know that Bob is a professional, very knowledgeable about nutrition and fitness, has been doing this since the beginning and has dealt with some serious game players, has seen contestants lose big , go home and regain, so I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt. That no matter how unprofessional or mean his (edited) comment appeared, he didn't intend it to be a negative against John. I don't know...maybe he'd already had that conversation with John. He was his initial trainer, after all...so it wasn't like he was telling tales out of school. Necessarily.

And Antone doesn't need me to defend him because I don't know him, either. But....yes, he wrote down Joe's name. And he didn't apologize for it. And he didn't give a lame excuse for it. It was game play and everyone knew that. And the week prior, Joe had done the same thing.
The problem I have is not with game play. It's for a quarter million dollars, after all. Whose life wouldn't be impacted by an influx of money like that??? Of course, there's game play. Just be real.

I am really looking forward to the makeovers. And I thank Lynda for sharing the links on Shay (I've often wondered how she's doing) and glad to know Abby's married. Her story was so heartwrenchingly sad. But how inspiring for all of us. Even when life throws us a curveball, we can still knock it out of the park if we hang in there and don't quit.



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INIT2LIVEIT's Photo INIT2LIVEIT Posts: 7,681
11/28/11 3:58 A

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Lynda, thank you so much for posting the links on Shay and Abby.

I was wondering if Shay had been able to continue on her journey successfully and she is! A beautiful woman...
As for Abby, I will admit that she is my all time favorite through all the BL seasons. The grace and class with which she conducted herself on the ranch, despite the personal tragedies she had suffered stayed with me for a long time afterward. I would love to read her book and am so pleased for her current happiness too.

Sam
Jerusalem - Israel
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Tomorrows are always new with no mistakes in them. (Anne of Green Gables)
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Salvation can come in the blink of an eye...


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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/27/11 4:10 P

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Yes Barbara...very good point. It's okay for Antone to stab Joe in the back but not okay when someone else does it. I thought it was strategic game play for Antone then and thought the same about John last week. It all has to do with Antone's dislike for John's success. Then Bob chimed in to pump Antone up by saying John's success was just temporary where his wasn't. It was terrible all the way around.

Steve


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11/27/11 3:45 P
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Further down, someone made the comment about Antone setting himself as the moral arbiter at the elimination. I have to agree--one thing that annoys me about any of these contest shows is that everyone seems to take the stance that game play is ok if they do it, but when someone else does, it is betrayal.

~Barbara~

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say....Ralph Waldo Emerson"


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KRISTEC's Photo KRISTEC Posts: 7,998
11/27/11 8:10 A

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I wondered if Bob did regret that comment. I went to see his blog: www.mytrainerbob.com/blog/
and BOO - he hasn't added comments about recent shows.

I think having yourself videotapped for hours has got to cause some undesirable things to be uncovered,

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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
11/27/11 1:05 A

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Why should John have given it to Vinny? I am tired of people giving up like that. John has every right to be there, and made a GREAT choice. The problem was hom voting for her the second time.

As far as Bob's comment being motivation....? I could understand if he said John is a machine, and you can't beat him.. that might light the comeptitve fire under Antone. Saying John is going to gain it all back is just mean gossip at best. He should say something to John, or not make the comment. How do you think John is gonna feel when he sees this? Hopefully Dolvett is working out some of these issues, but that comment in no way would be helpful to John, or motivating to Antone. How does the fact that John is going to fail after the show motivate Antone?

The only thing I can think of is that Bob is just upset about John, and can see the train wreck that will happen, and just was getting it off his chest. However, I think there are plenty of others that he could talk to. Hopefully, one of them was Dolvett. It does seem that Dolvett is trying to instill in John a feeling that he doesn't need to be perfect.

The comment is on par with John calling Sunny stupid at the start of the show, or Anna questioning Joe's manhood. No reason for it. I think Bob will look back on this, and wish he hadn't said it.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 11/27/2011 (01:06)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

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“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

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SUNNYARIZONA's Photo SUNNYARIZONA SparkPoints: (242,421)
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11/26/11 9:15 P

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I blogged this right after the show. I love Ramon, with such a smile, always so cheery, LOOKED FABULOUS with his makeover. He did that for Jess....they really make a cute couple, and I can hardly wait to the finale, I am sure he will be kneeling sometime on that show! ha....

As for John giving that 1 lb. to Sunny, he really wasn't thinking at all. I should have gone to Vinny, he had ALOT of protection, with no chance of going home....

I am sure the others will be less trusting of him....

MY NEW saying: (borrowed from Delila)

"If you want to do something, you'll find a way, if you don't, you'll find an excuse."


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LINDAKAY228's Photo LINDAKAY228 Posts: 19,570
11/26/11 6:16 P

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Thanks for the link on Shay. I'm so happy to see she's still doing great. That's awesome. I saw Abby on the Where are they now show on Wednesday night and she looked so happy. I really want to read her book. I'm so glad that she has found love again and is able to be open to it after the tragedy of losing her husband and kids. I like what she said on the show about being so very lucky to have found such wonderful husbands twice because many don't find that kind of love and acceptance once. I was so happy to see she's doing well too.

Linda

Last is just the slowest winner."-C Hunter Boyd







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LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/26/11 4:38 P

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One more thing I wanted to add about Shay - she continues to be good friends with Abby Rike and wrote the forward for Abby's book that came out last May - the book is called "Working It Out: A Journey of Love, Loss, and Hope"

And - on the topic of Abby Rike, she has gotten married again on November 20 and looks absolutely radiant in her wedding dress!!

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1015
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51463950300&set=a.10150394152200300.R>620965.246476540299&type=1


Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/26/11 4:24 P

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Sam, I had the same thoughts about Antoine - stuff like that tends to come back to 'bite' people!

As for Shay, she actually lives near me and I follow her Tweets and Facebook posts

www.facebook.com/BLShaySorrells

She's continued to lose weight and looks great, although she's definitely not 'skinny' - she works out regularly at a couple of gyms, does crossfit a couple of times a week, posts pix of healthy meals and recipes - I think she's doing just fine and is a gorgeous woman!



Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/26/11 4:12 P

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Exactly right Sam!


INIT2LIVEIT's Photo INIT2LIVEIT Posts: 7,681
11/26/11 3:54 P

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Everyone made such excellent points regarding the latest episode.
The one thing that really rubbed me the wrong way is how Antone spoke as if he was the moral compass of the group. First- they are all adults and have the right to make their own decisions, Second- didn't Antone write down Joe's name and completely devastate him?
People who live in glass houses....

Sam
Jerusalem - Israel
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Salvation can come in the blink of an eye...


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BARBARASDIET's Photo BARBARASDIET SparkPoints: (426,733)
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11/26/11 2:29 P
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I was wondering about Shay also. I did see something a while ago that she did an interview and said that she is doing very well, but I find it odd that she has not been featured if there were true.

Obviously, they don't want to highlight people who gained it back. In Eric's case, it was because they were going to get him to lose it again.

I agree with you, Lynda, about BOb's comment. He said that John is too focused on his week by week loss and not on the big picture--the way he has to change his life to become healthy.

~Barbara~

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say....Ralph Waldo Emerson"


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LINDAKAY228's Photo LINDAKAY228 Posts: 19,570
11/26/11 2:16 P

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I personally think Bob's comment was to motivate Antoine and also based on the years of experience and the competitors he's seen gain it back over the years if they don't deal with their issues. I've been watching the earlier seasons I hadn't seen on Netflix and just finished season 3. When I started watching I already knew Erik Chopin would win because all we've seen of his struggles in the years since and although he did incredible he didn't keep it off. I know there have to be a lot of others we haven't seen anything of in the shows that look at where they are now possibly because some of them have relapsed. I haven't seen anything of Shay Sorrels in a long time and hope she is still doing well but the last I saw of her on the Biggest Loser was when Subway challenged her with the money per pound in the season after she was on the show. I never heard how she did. So I don't know what motivated Bob's comment or if it's part jealousy but he also has all these seasons of seeing what happens to some of the contestants who go for the challenge but don't really change inside. Just my 2 cents worth.

Linda

Last is just the slowest winner."-C Hunter Boyd







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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/25/11 11:32 P

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You're right MFTAGGFREEZE, there's so much we don't see. Most of the show is probably on the editing room floor. That's a shame because I do like Bob and think he's a great trainer. I'd want to win too if I was him. And believe me my friend, I know the all or nothing thing very well because of my yo-yo weight problems. I want them all...I want US all to lose the weight and keep it off because I know how hard it is. I really have enjoyed the show this season, especially of late. I miss Jillian, who wouldn't, but I really like Dolvett a lot. He has won me over. And I'll always like Bob and I just hope this past episode was a fluke because it did make him look bad.

Steve


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11/25/11 10:51 P

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I understand what you mean Stevo. I guess I was just hoping somewhere that the producers kinda "put that scene together" to make it look like Bob may have been picking with John. I really would like to think that Bob was reaching out to Antone to make him realize that if he doesn't deal with some of his "issues" he'll end up in the same place.

I feel you as well Lynda. I have been dealing with the "all or nothing" thing for some time.

I do wish them all good luck on getting the weight off and keeping it off though.

This week has really stirred up some comments huh?

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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/25/11 7:49 P

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While Bob may be right about John, my problem with Bob is that I believe his motive was driven by jealousy. I've said it here before that Bob is jealous because Dolvett has John now when earlier in the season Bob and John were very close. If Bob really cared about John he would've told him to his face and not have used it as a motivational ploy with Antone. Bob got in Antone's face and made the comment about John when if he cared about John he would've pulled John aside and said it to him. Bob wants to train the winner...Bob wants to win. That's why I'm so disappointed in him. He's always harping about game play but that's exactly what he did. The trainers are supposed to be above that.

Steve


LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/25/11 7:28 P

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I think John, like many 'addictive' people, is a perfectionist - it's all or nothing, can't accept a 'failure' [and defining it as 'not number 1']. It goes along with being a competitor but it's a little different because it's something that makes people super-super-super hard on themselves. That is probably why John is so unhappy all the time - nobody is or can be perfect so being a perfectionist means guaranteed dissatisfaction.

John's disappointment over 'low' weight loss numbers was probably partially rooted in his fear that a low number will result in being sent home, which is an accurate assumption IMO, but also because it wasn't 'perfect' - one of my closest friends from high school was such a perfectionist, she committed suicide when she received a B in a class in college! I've certainly struggled with my own desire for 'perfection' and learning to accept my IMperfections as just part of life so I 'get it' - in fact, I think a lot of us here have those tendencies, which generally lead to 'all or nothing' mentality.

I think that 'all or nothing' part is why Bob thinks John will gain it all back unless he starts to deal with the issues. Underlying a lot of destructive behavior is the desire to 'wipe out' anything that's not perfect or 'punish' ourselves for being imperfect - this can explain a lot of overweight people continuing to overeat - after the first bite or two, the 'flavor' loses its initial impact but we continue to eat because of emotional issues and one of those can be the emotions connected to perfectionism.

Anyway, I hope John can learn to deal with ALL his issues, and really that ALL of them learn to do the same, even though we're down to the wire and not much time to work it out now.

Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
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11/25/11 5:57 P

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You'd think with the name of this game being the "biggest loser" that most of the competition would be strictly who loses the most weight. That of course is fantasy land talk and hence I'll leave it alone.

This is first and foremost a game. John played the game and won a small battle. Whether you like him or not, he saved himself by giving Sunny that 1lb.

Antone is a big cry baby who has played the game to his advantage before and now is critical of someone else who does.

I also think that Bob know what he is talking about when it comes to John. Bob has been a trainer for a long time and has seen many clients/contestants. He knows that with the psychological makeup that John has (not being satisfied with any weight loss/not being generally happy about his life,) he is going to go back to the same habits and ways that got him heavy in the first place. I believe if Bob said it, he believes it.

Edited by: MFTAGGFREEZE at: 11/25/2011 (17:57)
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RAGGDOLL's Photo RAGGDOLL Posts: 3,008
11/25/11 3:05 P

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anyone who is extra large and falls below the yellow line is history...and if they are all 'game-playing' that's the way it should be

if I were on the ranch I definitely would not want to win the challenge that gives so much control...then you become everyone's target...whether or not John is a putz has nothing to do with it anymore...he is in big trouble if he ever falls below the line



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11/25/11 2:02 P
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They have to bring him back--he is great!

Anna was too one-sided--all the exercises were oriented toward tennis; Brett had his Brazilian thing and Cara was all the boxing.

~Barbara~

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say....Ralph Waldo Emerson"


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LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/25/11 10:20 A

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I saw a mention on the Internet that Dolvett was interviewed and said he was already filming Season 13 so if that's true - woohoo, sounds like he IS coming back!

Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
KRISTEC's Photo KRISTEC Posts: 7,998
11/25/11 10:15 A

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I totally agree w/ these points that knowing and doing are different, and athletes can easily let themselves go. I wasn't a big fan of Julie (years ago) - but I remember on a follow up show, her saying she needed to work out ~90 mins a day to maintain. That is tough!

I also really like Dolvett, I actually liked Brett also. I seem to like the male trainers they get more than the female ones. Jillian I loved, but Kim, Cara, and Anna have all just been OK to me.

I do not feel strongly on I want to win this season, but maybe I am slightly rooting for Vinny to win. He has had a tough life, has a good heart it seems, and is likely lower income than the others. I actually don't think he can win unless the break between going home and finale is long. He is losing more slowly.

Non BL - I have raked so many leaves that I think calorie vs exercise wise, I am doing pretty well this Thanksgiving weekend :)

Edited by: KRISTEC at: 11/25/2011 (10:17)
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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
11/25/11 2:42 A

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I would guess that more obese people are experts on nutrition than skinny people. Knowledge and implementation are two separate things. It is actually very common for former NFL linemen to die young 40's-50's. They eat a lot to maintain size. Also they usually have decent genetics, and a trainer. So they are healthy while in the NFL. After retirement they continue the eating,and stop exercising, usually because of major injuries. Obviously, this leads to obesity.

I think Dolvett will be back. I like him even better than Bob.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/24/11 9:24 P

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Haha, so true guys!

But as for Vinny's comment about Antone, just 'knowing' what to do isn't really enough - we all know that we have to DO IT to get results! I think a lot of former athletes get really heavy once they stop, although not necessarily the size of these guys. But look at Magic Johnson, just for one example - that guy is HUGE now, not just 'tall' - and the same can be said for many other former athletes, all of whom presumably got nutrition and fitness concepts drummed into their heads.

I agree with Steve's comment that both Antone and John are just big kids - I think the same applies to Vinny, Ramone and several others who are gone now.

Also agree that Dolvett is a class act and I really REALLY hope he is back next season!


Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

***********************

God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/24/11 8:04 P

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Nice take Russell. The only wrong thing John did the other night was give a lame reason for his vote for Sunny. He should've just told her she was his biggest threat and been done with it. Other than that what he did was, like Russell said, GENIUS!

And Vinny hit the nail on the head when discribing Antone a couple of weeks ago saying if he knew nutrition so well and was fed properly at an NFL training table, how did he get fat! They all have issues...we all have issues...but I didn't like the way Antone reacted the other night. He doesn't give a whip stitch about Sunny either, he's just jealous of John. I think both of them are a couple of big kids.

My only reason for supporting John now is Dolvett. I want John to stay so Dolvett can. Dolvett is a class act.

Steve


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11/24/11 11:09 A

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I think people need to stop at look at what John did this week. It is a two parter.. The first part , giving Sunny the pound was GENIUS. If he gave that pound to anyone else, he is sitting at home today. They all hate him, and he knows it. He is also the biggest threat. I agree with STEVO50. Bob is a little jealous, but also he wants to coach the winner. Jilian whipped his butt for a few years, and with new trainers he figured he would return to dominance. I think he looked around and saw who was left that could beat John. Only one option.. Antone. The guy was same size as John, is a former athlete( if OL counts..lol ), and has a huge drive to win, and is the # 1 game player. He has been playing the game for 3-4 weeks. So boohoo, John did the only thing that saved him. Giving Vinny the pound would have been STUPID.

The second part.. voting for Sunny again... wow.. I remembered the start of the show when he cried, and said I have to do good cuz I took someone's spot. Hellooo.. you took Sunny's spot over the yellow line. I was hypocritical. Everyone knows he dislikes Sunny. First show he called her stupid, then when she went home he cried when she held the fate of the team. He thought she would mess it up, and he would go home. John doesn't look at how his actions affect others. She had to be mad at that point. He was basically saying she was a screw up , and they were gonna lose. Same thing when Dolvett was standing in the background while he hugged Bob, and cried like he would never lose a pound again. Dolvett had to be a little peeved thinking.. I am ALSO a world class trainer. He voted for Sunny for two reasons.. One .. he doesn't like her, Two... she is the only female threat left. Probably easier for her to get to 138, than for Ramon to get to 177( 50% ). I think it is mostly about numbers. I am sure John knows exactly what each person needs to get to hit 50%, and has them ranked as threats.

No one has adressed that Antone and John probably know they are fighting for 250K. They can easily hit 50%. Not sure if either will keep the weight off though, especially John. Antone's opinion of John is biased, but I did agree on the second half of his argument. John should have just said... I am voting for Sunny, cuz she bugs me. After crying about it , his vote was lame.

I am psyched to see makeovers next week, but sad the show is ending soon.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/24/11 9:46 A

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I agree that John's reason for voting for Sunny was lame but he still did what he needed to do to save himself. John was toast if he ever fell below the yellow line anyway and he knew it. He dodged a big bullet this week but he has many more to come so he better toe the line with Dolvett. That's the reason I wanted John to stay...to keep Dolvett there. I really like Dolvett's style and I hope he can pull out of John what needs to be pulled out. Personally, I'm rooting for Becky to win but I just don't think she can do it. She's almost done...very close to losing as much as she can. And she's so happy now. John does need to be happy. He won't be successful until he is. Dolvett needs to help him discover that. John wasn't ready to go home yet.

Steve


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11/24/11 8:58 A

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I thought John giving Sunny the lb was a smart way to save himself. Voting for her though, rubbed me wrong. If he did it because he thinks she is a threat to win - fine - SAY that - not "what Ramon said about competition resonated w/ me, I want to compete against you... - OK this doesn't qualify for a quote ;)
I also thought that was unprofessional of Bob to say what he did.
I loved the Thanksgiving meal portion, and Bob sharing about his sister.

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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/23/11 9:14 P

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Good stuff there Lynda. I like Becky a lot myself but I think she's nearing the end. Did you see that hourglass figure she has? Her waist is so small now. And are you ever right about the issues we all have to work out.

Steve


LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/23/11 8:57 P

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You may have a point there about Bob feeling a little bit miffed over John and Dolvett getting close - Bob is clearly competitive and has shown anger or at least irritation whenever 'his' team isn't tops in everything - he even pointed out how there are more Black team members than any other team and how all of them won something last week, like it's his personal accomplishment and nobody else's. I think he does care about his team members and feels a great sense of responsibility for them, etc, but there's still that competitive element. I don't think Bob feels one iota of competition with Anna but he clearly does have some with Dolvett.

Remember when Vinny went to Bob's team after working with Dolvett? Bob was saying things like 'now I've got you' and 'I've been itching to work with you' - maybe not those words but certainly that sentiment.

I also agree that Antone is jealous of John and feels very competitive with him. They came in at about the same size and both have a football background, They are close to the same height and I think John weighed 2 lbs more than Antone to start, but John has lost quite a bit more at this point and weighs much less than Antone I think he's now 26 lbs lighter. You're also right about him being a big game-player but wouldn't you expect that from someone who was a pro athlete? As you pointed out, the thing with Joe was a great example of that! I think Antone has a lot of 'issues' to work out, too, just like John does - and, well, also me and probably all of you, haha!

Sunny's weight loss as of this week is the second highest after John's but they're all starting to close in on each other a little bit - here's the 'leaderboard' as of this week with percentage lost and current BMI:

John - 31.5% - 37.1
Sunny - 27.1% - 30.7
Antone - 26% - 39.3
Becky - 25.6% - 28.6 [she's just 'overweight' now - yay, Becky!]
Vinny - 23.9% - 43.9

Based on this, I wouldn't be surprised if Sunny and Becky's weight losses slow down a little bit - as we know, it gets harder as someone gets closer to 'normal' weight and Becky is only 25-30 lbs from 'normal' weight - John still has quite a bit to lose before he reaches that point, maybe around 80-100lbs or so, depending on his muscle structure. Antone looks so muscular, i doubt he could or should reach 'normal' BMI as the charts really don't apply to people who are heavily muscled - The question is going to be who ends up in the final group and with the twist of the marathon coming up, that could change things A LOT.

Excited about makeover week next week and I guess the marathon the week after that and then finale - wow, where did the season go???

Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
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11/23/11 8:19 P

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I wish Jillian were still on the show with her pop psychology. She would crawl right up into John's head and have him bawling like a baby with his personal hang ups. He's such an unhappy man. He needs professional help. I really do feel for him.

I hated to see Ramone go. He and Vinny goofed off for the first three weeks and didn't lose enough weight. I think Ramone is outgoing and cheerful, really a nice guy. I thought he was fun to watch, but he'll do well now with his girl working alongside him.

Vinny is a redneck, and personally, he gets under my skin. But I did get insight and sympathy into his personal problems with weight. It's hard to overcome the trauma of abusive parents. I really do wish him luck.

I agree that sometimes the show feels scripted. Why else would Bonnie stay on week after week? And, no one wants to see Dolvett out of a job. He's awesome, and we're all biting our nails now.

Can't wait to see the reunion tonight!
Charlotte



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STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/23/11 7:24 P

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Do you remember when the teams were changed and Bob and John embrassed and were crying? Dolvett was standing in the background as this was going on. Bob and John were close...very close. Then Dolvett had to work so hard to gain John's trust. Now they're doing fantastic together and I've sensed for a while now that this is getting to Bob. Bob got a lot out of John now Dolvett is getting the credit. This clearly upsets Bob and I think it has an effect on Antone. Antone clearly does not like John. Remember when they each voted on who they wanted to win? Antone immediately put John's name at the bottom. Antone is very jealous of John because of his massive weight loss.

I don't think John gets it yet but this is no reason to come down on him so hard. Antone has been the biggest game player this season and I really liked him up until last night. Sunny, John, and Antone were all original black team members. Remember when Antone sent Joe home and how it devastated Joe? Joe told Antone he'd never write his name down and Antone turned on him. Now Antone is going all ballistic on John because he made a strategic move last night. I just think it's petty jealousy.

I also don't think it was a motivational ploy with Antone when Bob made that unforgivable comment about John putting the weight back on. A trainer like Bob doesn't need to stoop that low. That was a horrible thing for him to say.

I'm telling you, Sunny can win this thing and John knows it. That's why he doubled down on her last night and I see nothing wrong with it. Of course John has a huge bullseye on his back now so he and Dolvett better keep busting it or they're both gone.

Steve

Edited by: STEVO5O at: 11/23/2011 (19:26)

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11/23/11 4:41 P
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I'm pretty much in agreement. I do not fault John for doing what he thought he needed to, in order to stay on the ranch, and I believe that he was sorry to do it. There is something so beaten about him. Couple of you made some good points about his needing to get past the goal of winning the competition and the realization that he has to live differently every day.

I was surprised to hear Bob make that comment but thought that it was a motivation to Antone, but I do see the reasoning now. I'm rooting for all of them to keep it off.

I have liked Vinny from the start and I would love to see him win, although I don't think he has lost enough to be able to pull it off.

And Ramon looked fab!

~Barbara~

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11/23/11 3:20 P

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Also...I'm glad that John did not go home. If Dolvett got sent off and Anna was still around, I would have been very miffed!

-Melinda

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11/23/11 3:18 P

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I have to admit something that I've always suspected about BL. John's vote for Sunny made me cry fowl, as did his decision to give her the 1lb disadvantage.

How many times have people needed to lose a certain amount to stay alive--people who have had 1 and 2 pound losses--and then they lose exactly the amount they needs--which is like 9 or 10 pounds? There have been several times I've noticed that. Also, why would John vote for Sunny? There really wasn't any reason to vote for her--they were supposedly friends and she was expecting a lower number anyway that day.

But, then think about this: the only way that 1lb disadvantage would have saved John would be if he gave it to Sunny--but then how would he know that?

The cynical side of me has a theory that the powers that be may have given him a nudge, shall we say, to give the pound to Sunny. As for voting for her in the elimination room, I don't get that either but, since my radar was up anyway, let's face it--it was much more dramatic that way. He could vote for her and she still wouldn't even go home since it would be a tie (and I knew she was safe since I saw her in the previews for the makeover episode a couple of weeks ago).

I don't know....I may be just making things up in my head--but it did all seem oddly scripted to me.

It could also be that I don't want to believe that John is that competitive/draconian as he appeared last night. There is something about that guy that I sympathize with and maybe I just want him to be a good guy in my mind. I kind of feel like the first half of the season was about Antone and his demons and the second half is about John and his.

I was glad to see Ramone go....I always found him a bit irritating. I was hoping he'd at least last through the makeover episode, but at least he got his own makeover. Am I the only person who thinks he looks like--oh, what was his name? He was Brittany's partner a couple of years ago (they were strangers when they came to the ranch) and then he won the at-home prize--the same year Ally won the BL title....

-Melinda

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LYNDALOVES2HIKE's Photo LYNDALOVES2HIKE Posts: 38,258
11/23/11 10:57 A

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I agree with what's been said before - it seems like Ramon is going to do great at home and in some ways, I think he really WANTED to go so he could be with Jess again - it must have been quite a 'tug of war' of emotions between wanting to stay on the ranch and wanting to be with her.

As for John, I also think he is scared, hurt [probably from childhood] and doesn't know how to deal with the world. He's mentioned several times that he was always left out during school, didn't have many friends, etc - he has such low self esteem partly because he's doing mean things. Wasn't there some sort of conflict early on, maybe episode 2 or 3, between John and Sunny? Didn't he make some mean comments about her like being 'dumb as a post' or something like that? I remember that something like this happened and THINK it was between John and Sunny - maybe I'll re-watch clips to see if I can find it. At any rate, I think they got into conflict early on and this was the culmination of that.

It occurred to me that Bob's conversation with Antone may have also been an indirect 'message' to Antone - he's another one in the house who has been goal-focused, now and in the past, only to drop the effort after the goal is met. After all, he stayed mostly in shape while he was playing for the NFL, then let it all go once he wasn't playing, right? So the conversation was superficially about John but also a pointed message to Antone and all of us at home that reaching goal weight is just the half-way point!

I think John has been a game-player from the beginning - I think I also remember an early attempt to make 'deals' with the guys on the black team that he might have instigated. I think his lack of trust stems from not trusting himself first and then extending that to not trusting others. I wish I thought he had some concern about Dolvett being voted off if he goes but my impression is that his concern was entirely about his own 'survival' and he's pretty focused on becoming The Biggest Loser. There are a LOT of opportunities that go with the title in addition to the $$ so I'm sure John realizes that.

I think if John can stay above the yellow line, he will win and that might help him stay motivated to continue - if he's voted off, I'm rooting for Vinnie. I'm afraid that John will gain it all back if he isn't BL but hoping he'll figure things out and change his life whether he gets that or not - not 'just' his lifestyle because as we've all commented, his problems go much deeper than food and exercise.

Makeovers are next week - can't wait for tonight's Where Are They Now? episode!




Lynda in Orange County, So Calif

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God Grant me Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can and Wisdom to Know the difference!

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden

"Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit."
STEVO5O's Photo STEVO5O Posts: 3,126
11/23/11 10:57 A

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I finally have someone on the show to root against now, Antone. I’m also very disappointed in Bob. I think there’s a jealousy factor between Bob/Antone and Dolvett/John. For Bob to say to Antone that John will put all his weight back on was unbelievable to me. Why would Bob say that?

Who has been THE biggest game player this season? Antone. So last night John finally plays the game and Antone gets bent out of shape? Give me a break!

What did they expect John to do last night? He did exactly what I would’ve done; try to get rid of Sunny because she’s the biggest threat. Vinnie, Antone, and Becky aren’t going to win this game. It’s going to come down to John and Sunny and……………… Ramon. I say that because Ramon is going to win the marathon and get to the final three. Sunny is John’s biggest threat and he did the right thing last night. Give me a break with this Thanksgiving week fairness stuff. This is a game! If John had fallen below the yellow line with Ramon by giving Vinnie the one pound disadvantage, he would’ve been sent home in a heartbeat. Antone doesn’t like John. Vinnie wouldn’t have voted for Ramon. It then would’ve come down to the two women. Who would they have sent home? John!

I don’t love John but he did the right thing for him, and that’s the bottom line. Plus, I didn’t want Dolvett to go home either. I really think Bob is jealous of Dolvett and it showed last night. I still can’t believe Bob said that John would put all his weight back on. Shame on you Bob! I thought you didn’t believe in game play!

I also believe that Ramon and Jessica have a great chance to win both the championship and the at home prize.

Just my thoughts as I read between the lines.

Steve



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11/23/11 9:59 A

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I was sad to lose Ramon, but it was only fair. Sunny didn't deserve to go home. And Ramon looked so good after his own personal makeover. I think that he and Jess will be all right. She'll be a good motivator for him. Now that he's gone, though, I'm definitely rooting for Vinny.

John shocked me. And saddened me. I think he's a terribly unhappy man, which is what Bob and Dolvett want him to see. He's got some serious issues that go beyond game play. Yes, I think he gave Sunny the 1 pound disadvantage because she was so close on his butt during the challenge this week--and she was so close on Antone's butt last week at the challenge. They see Sunny as a threat--and for a game player, she's a target. But I think John's issues go deeper. He's going for the "win"--with the win being making it to the finals.

I was a little surprised when Bob said that on national TV--and talking to Antone, not John himself. I don't remember any of the trainers ever doing that before in any season...but as I thought about it, I think Bob wants John to watch this show play back and hopefully get the message. His head is not in the right place and when the game is over, he won't have made a lifestyle change, and will revert to old ways. Especially because his self-esteem is still so low, and all his walls are still in place and he can't connect to other people. He doesn't let others in..and that's what 's going to hurt him in the long run. Until he can deal with those trust issues and his need to be "on guard" all the time, thinking the world is against him----he'll never truly be healthy of happy. And that saddens me.

What angers me is that he knew he was going to alienate the house by giving that 1 pound to Sunny, and he did it anyway, then had the nerve to try to look contrite and to "apologze" to her for doing so--and then voting for her....because Ramon had challenged him to be competitive. Ramon was no competition! Sunny was his competition. If John wanted to be competitive with someone, he should have voted Ramon off.

I'm glad Bob said what he did. I'm glad Dolvett continues to bond with him. I'm glad Antone called him on his bs. Now I hope he wakes up. I don't think he's a bad person, just a hurt and scared one.

Charlotte
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DONNAEDA's Photo DONNAEDA Posts: 30,939
11/23/11 9:53 A

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I agree with all of you, John will probably regain the weight, because he doesn't see himself as thin and healthy, he is goal oriented and without a goal in sight there is no need to cut calories. Once at goal he will have to set another "attainment" goal to keep the weight off or he will just go back to eating the way he used to. When you lose weight you have to have your perception of yourself change to. If you can't get the mind to accept that you are thin and healthy and see yourself as a changed person, you will regain the weight.

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11/23/11 9:28 A

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I have to go back and watch the last 45 minutes of the show again because I was dozing in and out of consciousness. Seems to be par for the course lately. Definitely not because I'm bored with the show, it happens most nights, but because I get up so early in the morning. I did see Ramon's piece after he went home and he looks really really good. He's a good looking guy with so much of the weight off and his hair styled nicely. I kind of wish he would have kept some of the length as I tend to prefer longer hair but he really does look great.

I know that Bob is probably right about John, those that focus solely on the game and not themselves generally do gain the weight again, but I was a little taken aback by the way he talked about it with Antone and in effect the rest of the country. I thought it a little unprofessional. Don't get me wrong, I aboslutely love Bob, but I think it was just wrong. I have watched since season one and can't ever remember a time that I thought anything like this of him. On the other hand, I love that he opened up a little about his family. It must be so very difficult for him to see his sister that way given his profession.

How about that Jacob's ladder challenge? No way I could have done it. I'm lucky to do 10 minutes without feeling like I'm going to die on the spot!!!

Kim in Connecticut


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LINDAKAY228's Photo LINDAKAY228 Posts: 19,570
11/23/11 9:19 A

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I thought Ramon looked so awesome after his own makeover! He looks so happy with Jess. I hope it lasts for them because they really do seem to be in love right now. I think John just shot himself in the foot. He may have been a threat before and if fell below the yellow line voted off but now he just really set himself up by his actions last night. I would have liked to see Ramon stay but I was also glad to see Sunny stay because without the 1 lb disadvantage she would have been safe. I appreciated Bob opening up about his personal life a little bit too. Overall I enjoyed the show.

Linda

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JUSTCHELLE75's Photo JUSTCHELLE75 Posts: 10,965
11/23/11 8:45 A

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I loved last night's show. I think we really got a nice look at Bob. I always wondered what motivated him.

Ramon looked awesome. He looked happy and ready to live life. I think he will be successful.

I don't mind John being competitive. I think you have to expect that with a show like this. However, if you are going to play the game and be a jerk own it and What Antoine said to him resonated with me. I honestly think it was a bad move on John's part to vote for sunny. There were more original black members than Red or blue. Sunny was pretty safe. So now he just outed himself as a major game player and jerk. I can see him being on everyone's threat list. So no more bad weeks for him.

Also Bob made a statement, saying that he thought John would gain all the weight back. I kind of think Bob is right. When I lost weight before I had the mindset of John. I lost 107 lbs in 10 months. I kept almost all of it off for 2 years. I gained 130 of it back...yep 130. Some of it was pregnancy but not all of it. This time I had to change me in order to get most of this weight off so it will be permanent. I think most people think weight loss is all about diet and exercise but there is just so much more to it.

Chelle
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11/23/11 7:56 A

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Yeah, I agreed with Antone, too. I can see a man being competitive, and it is a game after all. But to cry about how bad he felt (literally) and then walk into the vote and write down Sunny AGAIN made him seem like hypocrite at best and an a$$hat at worst. I can figure no strategic reason for voting for her twice. Something else is going on there. It will be interesting to see how the house treats him this week.



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11/23/11 6:19 A

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The thing I like about John is that he puts in the effort in the gym. There are other things that make me not so crazy about him. But, I felt bad for Sunny when he gave her the extra point, but I didn't like that he voted for her after doing so. He did save himself as far as the yellow line and the GAME is coming down to the wire, so I can see that side of it..but low blow at the end there. I agree with Antone, if he felt true remorse, he wouldn't have then voted for her.

~Liz~




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11/23/11 5:13 A

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Ramone! Wow...how different he looked after his hair was all cut off! I really wanted him to stay but I think he is going to be ok being at home and doing it on his own. What a transformation he has made, not just on the outside, but on the inside...he looked truly happy. What do you all think of John giving the extra pound to Sunny instead of keeping peace in the house and giving it to Vinny?

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