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5/29/21 5:33 P

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keto is a whole new learning experience. i'm a professional chef and i didnt know all this stuff. i find a lot of it fascinating..and am more than a little shocked to find out most of what i learned in nutrition classes is totally false!!

Holly
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HERBSANDFLOWERS's Photo HERBSANDFLOWERS Posts: 1,359
5/29/21 4:53 P

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Thanks for the info especially on cucumbers, I was never cutting the green skin off, I grew up thinking it was the best part goes to show never too old to learn. Funny thing is I have learned something new almost every day since I retired, I am not just talking about food but everything. I guess working 50 hrs. a week did not help my brain too much.

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5/29/21 4:36 P

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good i'm glad-- that is the correct info!! small amounts of pumpkin are ok...by small i mean a quarter cup and it has to count. people always said spaghetti squash but its pretty high in carbs.
Lettuce..make sure you get romaine or green leaf..the dark green ones. iceberg has zero nutrients...but still has carbs. so you want the dark green leafy ones. cucumbers are ok..be sure to peel them most of the carbs are in the peel.
tomatos..very small quantities (1/4 cup of plain tomato sauce i think has 4 g carbs) or 1 slice of a tomato or a couple cherry or grape tomatos cut into pieces.
I know James does peppers..i dont. i find them too high in carbs.
sounds like you have great info and are going to rock this!!!

Holly
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HERBSANDFLOWERS's Photo HERBSANDFLOWERS Posts: 1,359
5/29/21 3:34 P

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Thanks for the info they say do not go by net carbs,1 carb is 1 carb no matter how fiber it has, as for the food I'll try to find James's list. As far as the book says it is only veggies that grow above ground. I have celery, spinach, lettuce, cauliflower, asparagus, zuchinni, a squash but I already forget the name.
Those were the main ones that stayed in my brain

Paulette - HERBSANDMORE
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5/28/21 4:07 P

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Paulette..Keto Clarity is old, and there are things that have changed, for instance they used to go by net carbs and now they know thats incorrect. I cant remember if the book says net carbs or not..but they have found net is not good..go with total.
there are foods in the list that are now no longer considered keto friendly..Jame's list on Team Keto! is correct...
but all in all its a really good book. Jimmy Moore is great! He did have quite a setback a few years ago, but seems to have gotten it under control again land lost again..which is wonjderful!


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HERBSANDFLOWERS's Photo HERBSANDFLOWERS Posts: 1,359
5/28/21 3:12 P

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I finally got the Keto Clarity book, there was quite of bit of stuff I was doing wrong, it sure is interesting.

Paulette - HERBSANDMORE
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MONTHONY's Photo MONTHONY Posts: 268
5/27/21 8:21 P

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Holly, Thank you. The list is helpful.
Monterey

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5/23/21 12:04 P

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i cant take credit it came from Common Sense Keto. I dont agree with everything they do there, but i do agree with most of it!!

Holly
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HERBSANDFLOWERS's Photo HERBSANDFLOWERS Posts: 1,359
5/23/21 11:40 A

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Thanks for the list I wrote it out & hung in on my fridge.

Paulette - HERBSANDMORE
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5/23/21 11:00 A

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Jane you might look up the NIH studies in progress. There are also studies in progress that are showing that fasting may do the exact opposite of what people think I got on the fasting bandwagon and GAINED. as have many others. if it works for you, thats great. but for many it doesnt. we ALL do "IF" from supper to breakfast...
You might also check out Dr Aronne..he is a pioneer with diabetics..people go to him when nothing else works and i benefitted greatly from a class someone gifted me with..i dont have diabetes but it was my first step into keto. I trust his research..and his results with those nothing else worked for. I am not a huge fan of Dr Fung, though i do think some of his reasoning has merit. thats MY personal opinion, not saying he isnt good for many people, just not for me.


Herbs...eat EVERYTHING with butter. olive oil, coconut oil, avocado oil.

heres a list i posted on Team Keto! last week for fat ideas

Fat sources:
3 cups spinach with 4 tbsp of olive oil - 54g of fat
coffee with 4 tbsp HWC - 20g fat
2 eggs fried in 1 tbsp butter - 26 grams of fat
4 egg yolks - 18g fat
0.5 cups pecans with 2 oz cream cheese - 57g fat
2 oz triple cream brie - 24g fat
hollandaise sauce - 31g fat (2 egg yolks, 30g melted butter, lemon juice to taste and whisk together. Put on meat or whatever you want)
Boursin cheese 2 oz - 24g fat
0.5 cup pecans sauteed in 2 tbsp butter - 62g fat
Half an avocado - 11g fat
10 olives - 5g fat
1 tbsp butter - 12g fat
1 tbsp avocado mayo - 11g fat
1 tbsp almond butter mixed with 1 tbsp coconut oil - 22g of fat

Holly
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HERBSANDFLOWERS's Photo HERBSANDFLOWERS Posts: 1,359
5/23/21 10:38 A

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I am having a very hard time getting in enough fat without going over in my protein intake. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm guessing it can be done since so many people are doing it.

Paulette - HERBSANDMORE
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JANEGSN's Photo JANEGSN Posts: 9,756
2/24/21 3:25 P

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While agreeing everyone is different and has to find their own way....

Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) is designed for what someone needs to not get seriously ill, not for optimal health.
Again I always want to see the actual study and judge it's merits, not just take something because someone like Stanford or some "expert" said we should do this or there are studies that show this.
I take this approach because at least half the time the person is misquoting the study (they take only part of what the study authors determines or they just totally skew it or they are quoting poor studies). That is why we ended up with "low fat diets" because the major study was incorrectly used to show something was true when that study did not show it was true and the authors conclusions said several things could have caused the results, not necessarily a low fat diet.

If you have links to actual Keto studies that are well run (thousands of participants, randomly chosen, control group, clearly described parameters, peer reviewed and hopefully reproduced by peers), I would love to see links to the actual study.

Actually Jason Fung does say everyone is individual. For some they go into ketosis at 60 grams of carbs, while others need lower. His background is working with people one on one, who have diabetes (type I or II) in clinical settings (and associated with the group that works with people at home). This is verified with ketones testing (if you are not testing, you really don't know if you are in ketosis or not you are guessing).
Jason's focus is to lower insulin big time - that is his area of expertise. So you have to read that into everything he says. As with many of the book authors, his videos are much better than the books and will often say it varies with the person.

Fasting - people have to find what works for them. For me, it has been a game changer, going from struggling to lose weight at all to losing 2 lbs a week on average (4+ lbs good week, 0-1 on a bad week). Nope, I am not insulin resistant (actually the opposite medical condition) but my blood sugars rose to 20 points more than they were 10 years ago (though well within normal) and fasting was the only thing that got them back to what is normal for me.

BUT there is many many different kinds of fasting and they can work differently. And fasting is contradicted for some people. Jason skews towards people that have big insulin resistant issues (e.g. high fasting insulin) and fasting is the best way to lower that, so he says pick whatever IF fits your lifestyle. For others that are not struggling with insulin resistance, a specific IF might work much better than others (that was true for me - I lost weight on all but some mucked with other hormones that messed me up in other areas). Or IF might not work for them at all.

Again, if you have links to good keto studies with the qualities I listed above, I would love to see them.

Edited by: JANEGSN at: 2/24/2021 (15:26)
Jane in Phoenix, AZ
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RESOLUTE to manage my cortisol and strengthen my IF muscles.
RENEGADE to give priority to my weight loss tasks.

Eat to Fuel and Fill your body.
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When counts as much as what.
Time + Effort =Progress
NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (832,705)
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2/24/21 1:54 P

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Jane i agree with much of what you say. Everyone IS different. I know that olympic caliber athletes need more protein than someone sedentary, which is included when the recommended numbers are given.
Sweeteners effect different people differently, which is why when i'm teaching my adult ed keto classes ((through BOCES) I tell the participants that if they have access to testing their blood sugar to test each type of natural sweetener to see how they are effected by them, as some have an insulin spike even with the natural sweeteners, while most of us have none.
I give the recommended numbers for protein..which is 0.8 grams of protein for each kilogram of body weight. there has been much research done on this, and this quote from Harvard med school "The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is a modest 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight."
That said, some can get away with more. some dont need this much. its the recommended, which works out to between 50-60 gm of protein per day for a woman that does a normal amount of exercise.
Its what most keto experts with the best success rates recommend. There are others that I feel are knowledgeable that suggest more---when we make suggestions on here they are just that, suggestions. The only thing i feel is an across the board is the less than 20 grams total carb a day. I've not seen any reputable expert on keto that thinks more than that is ok. Of course, you shoot for that. if you go over one day, its not going to knock you out of ketosis as long as its not much higher. But it does show how as studies are done, things change. When I first started keto, some said up to 50 g total carbs..within weeks of my starting they lowered that number to 30 g total, and then they settled on 20 g total. Some still say 20 net...but the net carb thing has been debunked now, and the doctor that came up with it has apologized, rescinded it, and publicly said that they put it out there to get more people to try atkins, as it made it more likely people would do it if they could have more carbs.

as i tell my classes..if you know, or your med professional feels you should modify, then by all means do so. As with everything, the numbers are whats given to be the most effective for the average.

I personally think Dr Fung is incorrect in some things, fasting being one of them. but if people want to fast, by all means do so. I have personal experience with myself and many others that says for us it produces problems, stalls us, and makes our goals harder to achieve. There are studies in the works, showing just this, but as you said, the numbers arent great enough to say an across the board, but the findings point to the very reasons why I dont fast. perhaps with bigger control groups that will change....but i do know there are many of us that have the same problems. So we dont..but it may work for someone else.

Holly
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JANEGSN's Photo JANEGSN Posts: 9,756
2/24/21 12:38 P

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Ok, I am going to jump into this discussion that has lots of disagreement. emoticon

I like research studies, and that means ones with control groups, with thousands of participants (30,000 is the golden number - enough that it rules out other potential causes of the effect, I personally will take one with hundreds of participants as a maybe) with participants randomly assigned and then still taking a good look at how the study was set up, the populations, and the specific results. I have spend many hours looking for research studies on IF and there is just not solid ones there yet. Jason Feng refers to many, but when I look them up they are very few people (e.g. under 20-30 people) and often not long term studies. I wish there were more but there just isn't. I have not looked for research studies on Keto, anyone who can point to a good Keto Study with thousands of participants, control groups, good setup, peer reviewed, etc. I would love to see it.

However, there are many case studies - e.g. one person and observations about what happened with them (did this and that happened). That doesn't mean that what they did will work for any of us (e.g. no solid X causes Y as typically not everything is stated - complete measurements before hand and continual measurement of all the kinds of things that could effect the results).

There are reviews of studies, that take all the tiny studies and try to find common elements and report - as if it was a larger study (more power than one tiny study), but this is still not a solid research study with control groups and large population, etc.

That said: There is large research studies coming out that say everyone reacts differently. See the Weissman study done in Israel (I may have spelled Weissman wrong) on blood glucose reactions to food that showed things like some people spike more after eating a banana then after eating a chocolate chip cookie.

So.. the topic of protein.

A big part depends on what is happening specific to you in your body.

I need more protein because I get high cortisol formed in the womb the way Diabetes type I is formed in the womb (lots of studies showing this, cause is a one time trauma or chronic conditions). My cortisol does not raise from what most people perceive as stress, but there is a few things my body perceives as stress. Like everything else, everyone is an individual and our bodies do not run the same.

High cortisol affects many things including ability to lose weight (or rapid weight gain) and the ability to sleep (affects everything).

Cortisol works opposite than testosterone. So raise testosterone and cortisol will lower.
Two big lifestyle things that will raise testosterone (and therefore lower cortisol) is high protein and lifting heavy weights (don't have to be world class weight lifter, but they need to be heavy enough to say - this is heavy).

So I need more protein then someone else.
Someone who has muscles recovering from a hard workout needs more protein (been there done that many times).

Guidelines are just that - we all have to find specifically what works for us. As they are showing more and more in research studies, all of our bodies work differently. And while some research is trying to figure out why (e.g. gut science that an predict your blood sugar response to eating certain foods, such as DayTwo that came out of the Weissman research study, they are not yet there - again, been there done that).

I would caution anyone from saying because someone says something and says there is research that there is strong research showing that. While I really liked reading Obesity Code by Jason Fung, I was surprised that he presents as "fact" in his book and talks, things that really are not proven yet. And yes, on many of his videos he says .. well we don't have studies to show that yet (about the same things he presented as "fact" in his book/other talks).
There is a lot of information out there, I think much of it is good, but it is not yet proven with golden research studies.
My advice: Do trail and error, listen to your body and figure out what works for you.

Edited by: JANEGSN at: 2/24/2021 (12:43)
Jane in Phoenix, AZ
Resolute Renegades - Captain since BLC27. BLC member since BLC18.
Renegade Web Page www.blctracking.com
Tiny Habits sparkteam teams.sparkpeople.com/TinyHabits

RESOLUTE to manage my cortisol and strengthen my IF muscles.
RENEGADE to give priority to my weight loss tasks.

Eat to Fuel and Fill your body.
A calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie.
When counts as much as what.
Time + Effort =Progress
NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (832,705)
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1/28/21 10:05 A

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i know. its a bit mind boggling. and who knew how many things carbs were hiding in that we thought were healthy!!

Holly
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CHERIE38's Photo CHERIE38 Posts: 1,930
1/28/21 9:42 A

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Thank you Holly for the link and info.
He is working on decreasing the amount of coffee mate, he use to drinking a lot of coffee through out the day, it is consuming over 54 carbs
it is fascinating tracking food and seeing the amounts..
I also find it fascinating what some people think low carbs are LOL

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1/26/21 12:29 P

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both men and women should be under 20 g total carbs. he can eat more cals..women really shouldnt go under 1800..and thats low..men i would say at least 2200..

heres a calculator that tells you what it should be..LEAVE the activity as it is...unless hes olympic caliber on working out. seriously.

web-downunder.com/csk/

Edited by: NIGHTSKYSTAR at: 1/26/2021 (12:32)
Holly
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CHERIE38's Photo CHERIE38 Posts: 1,930
1/26/21 10:43 A

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Holly, do you know how many carbs a man should get in a day..
My husband joined me on keto LOL
we just filled in his nutrition tracker for yesterday.
He drinks a lot of coffee with a lot of coffee mate creamer in it
this am 5 cups of coffee has put him at 54 carbs..
we be in shock, LOL


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1/24/21 12:50 P

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Cherie..for most you can subtract erythritol grams. they pass through you undigested..its one of the few things that any expert that allows them says. you dont count erythritol grams. But i still use VERY sparinginly. I'm not far across the lake from Burlington. I live on the canadian border in NY..if you look on a map...right where Quebec and ontario and NY meet..thats where i am.

Holly
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CHERIE38's Photo CHERIE38 Posts: 1,930
1/24/21 12:38 P

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I purchased the swerve 3 pack, sugar, powered sugar and brown sugar. It was 20.00 I am NOT happy it still has carb.. real sugar has the 4 carbs.. uggg

I have stevia on order.

Thank you for all the hints on the chocolate, that was going to be hard one to let go.. I love me some dark chocolate now and then.

I live in central Vermont, Fayston and you?

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1/23/21 10:53 A

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Bochasweet is a wonderful thing. but VERY expensive. it doesnt crystallize, so can be used 1 to 1 for sugar and behaves just like it, too. allulose is the same but much less expensive. i prefer the bochasweet as its like stevia..just from a plant. but allulose is an approved sweetener.

good for you for going carnivore!! i need more variety. i didnt realize cocoa was ok on it. i eat very little veg, but some once in a while is nice. tonight i'm having creamy tuscan chicken and there is spinach in the dish, but i'm leaving out the sundried tomatos it calls for.

Holly
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GRINGUITA's Photo GRINGUITA SparkPoints: (46,958)
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1/22/21 7:15 P

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The only sweetener I have used in the past few years is pure ground stevia leaf powder -- it is green and looks weird but I use just enough to take the bitterness out of cocoa powder. I don't bake so I have never tried allulose and I have never heard of bochasweet. Of course, right now I am eating strictly carnivore so I don't need any sweetener.

Bev Anne
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1/22/21 11:28 A

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good..what kind did you get?? heres a little rundown (can you tell i own a bakery)

swerve..or just erythritol...i use anthonys brand. same thing just a cheaper brand. i DO use swerve brand for confectioners cuz i'm too lazy to make my own.

lakanto..proclaims to be monkfruit, but is just a bit of monkfruit the rest swerve.

stevia..be sure to get REAL stevia. i made a big goof and bought a big green bag at walmart that listed STEVIA across the front. got home, flipped it over and its NOT. its SOME stevia, mixed with malitol or maltodextrin..cant remember which but BOTH are horrid for you..avoid anything with them in it like the plague. (they raise your blood sugar as much as or more than table sugar)

Bochasweet..from the kombocha plant. this is ALL i would use if it wasnt so darn expensive!!

Allulose..what i DO use, for keto ice cream, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie, anything i dont want crystallizing.

and just so you dont think all i do is make sweet stuff...over the summer i saw my 2 pound bag of allulose was getting low..and ordered another from amazon (i use Hoosier Hill Brand). The bag is still unopened. There is still some in the old bag,,,and there was literally about half a cup when i ordered. i'm working on the same 5 pound bag of anthonys erithritol i've had for a year. good thing they are shelf stable..haha.

Hope this helps some..

OH..and if you want the BEST chocolate chips ever..go to walmart..they have a brand called Bake Believe. its all good for keto..and the milk chocolate ones..omg. cant tell the diff..FAR cheaper than Lilys..which is the chocolate buzzword on keto..these are $3 something, where Lilys are $5 something and dont taste nearly as good.
dont buy into the hype. you do NOT need MCT oil, it may even be not great..i can provide data on that. regular olive oil is fine..MCT is expensive.
Raos spaghetti sauce is another buzzword. I am NOT paying 6-$8 for a jar of sauce. best marinara in the world, and keto friendly? Lidia Bastianich's recipe...which is

1 large can San Marzano tomatos (i use Cecco brand i think)
couple glugs of olive oil
2-3 cloves garlic, minced (more if you like it garlicky)
optional is some red pepper flakes.
sprig of fresh basil, and more if you like basil
and you will need water.

dump the tomatos into a bowl and mash them up with your hands. dont know why it makes the sauce taste so much better but it does. if you dont want to get messy use a masher.
pour a couple glugs olive oil in a skillet (yes skillet you need the large surface area). heat on med high..when shimmering add the garlic and stir..do NOT allow to burn or your sauce will taste awful .
now..dump in the tomatoes, and measure 1 cup water into the tomato can, swish it around to get all the good juices. dump in with the rest.--add the red pepper flakes if you like it hotter (i dont) stir it up till combined and bring to a boil, then turn down to a simmer, and float the basil sprig on top.
simmer 15 mins. yup thats IT. no more. just 15 mins--dont go longer. its perfect. i use it for keto pizza, keto meatballs, keto lasagna..whatever. i freeze in quarter cup baggies. thats a werving..1/4 cup. i think its 3-4 carbs.

oh..if you like basil you can stir some extra in after its simmered.

where in VT are you? wondering if we are close by each other..

Holly
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CHERIE38's Photo CHERIE38 Posts: 1,930
1/22/21 10:32 A

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It should be coming in the mail soon! hope it doesn't taste weird emoticon

Yesterday my food was low so I found Teddie peanut butter.. only ingredient was peanuts.. YUM

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the sooner you can use the natural sweetener the better!

Holly
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1/20/21 8:23 A

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Prior to keto I was using 2 hugh spoons of sugar in my coffee, week one I dropped it to 1
That am coffee helps me have a poo.. I am aware it is 4.5 carb..
good idea on switching to a clean sweeter, I'll order some today

I read through the hand out.. ty

It is great you had a few restaurant create or share keto dishes..



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1/16/21 3:12 P

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i will tell you..i hadnt been in a restaurant in well over a year when he came. we went out 5 of 7 nights he was here...he wanted me to not have to do anything and who am i to refuse..lol. the other nights--i smoked a big pork roast and we had that.

5 guys has a keto burger. really good comes in a lettuce wrap. i dont do any other fast food..and only 5 guys and texas road house when i'm working at horse shows and they are bringing me food or paying for my meals.

Holly
Northern NY
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1/16/21 2:48 P

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I'm not usually keen on restaurants -- I figure I can get a bigger portion of steak or chicken at home for half the price. But when we travel (we did that a lot during our move from Vancouver Island to Alberta) we look for an A&W and I get a double or a triple burger and just throw away the bun. Most restaurants today will serve a bunless burger if you ask but I find in a lot of fast food restaurants it is easier to just order the burger and discard the bun. Steak and eggs is another restaurant favourite but it is usually served with toast and hash browns which I have to pay for but don't eat. It would be nice to get some fancier low carb offerings though.

Bev Anne
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"Everything will be alright in the end and if it's not alright then it's not the end" -- Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.



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1/16/21 11:10 A

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Gringuita good to see you!! glad things are working for you again!!

I went in and sat down with the restaurants. said look i have full classes and i will recommend you if you will put items on your menus.
texas roadhouse near me now has a loaded broccoli choice on their menu. you get 2 sides with a steak, so if you do a salad and the loaded broccoli you are good.

the local italian place has a keto steak platter and a seafood one..both listed on menu as keto friendly with macros listed. the local steakhouse offers a bunless burger with mushrooms, bacon, cheese and a house salad. and they keep sugar free ketchup on hand..plus they did a chicken plate, with the offer of subbing any meat ...the sides are all keto.

and when my guy was here...he took me to a fancy seafood house...i was stumped for about 2 mins...asked for a small salad, crab stuffed mushrooms, and lobster alfredo hold the pasta. they looked at me like i was from outer space, but the owner came to talk to me, and now they offer 2 keto plates.
most are really eager to please and will sub or put an offering on. the italian place told me they get people from my classes coming in saying holly sent us for your keto meals...
I do live in a small town, but it never hurts to ask!!

Holly
Northern NY
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1/16/21 10:50 A

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Cherie, Every body is different and we have to find what works for us as individuals. Personally, I am doing a month of carnivore eating. The only carbs I have had this month have been from liver and egg whites. And I am feeling great and my weight is finally going down again. I do IF every day but no longer do longer fasts (more than 24 hours) this also works well for me -- my eating window varies but it is usually under 6 hours and sometimes even less.

I wish some of our local restaurants had keto meals -- that is the advantage of going to a buffet where I can choose the foods I want to eat and not be served a plate full of carby sides. Unfortunately the last time I was able to do that was last March as buffets in this area have been closed since then due to covid. It will be sometime yet before they will be able to open up that service again.

Bev Anne
Okotoks, AB
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"Everything will be alright in the end and if it's not alright then it's not the end" -- Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.



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1/16/21 9:10 A

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Cherie even a teaspoon of sugar is a problem first off, theres 4.2 grams of carb in one teaspoon of sugar. thats almost 1/4 of your entire day!! better to get a package of swerve or truvia..even though any sweet will continue to make you crave sweet.

when i started keto 4.5 years ago i just came online and read, and being one that likes to push the envelope, saw all the stuff about under 20 total g carb, and found someplace that told me i could have 30 net. so i started with that..and i did all the hype stuff..IF, fasting (which the only thing fast about it was how fast it stalled me). after a while i saved up enough money to hire a coach who pinpointed my problems--telling me i needed to eat MORE cals (i ate 2200 cals a day the entire time i was losing) more fat (fat is NOT a lever its a goal) less protein (60 g protein is PLENTY for an adult woman..i try to stay closer to 50--its the hardest part of keto for me i do like meat and cheese) and a max of 20 g TOTAL carbs, and had all the scientific data to back up WHY fasting and net carbs can be a real problem for most.

160+ pounds later now i teach keto classes for the cooperative extension adult ed department...my keto cooking classes always fill quickly. my first "keto 101" class had so many we were turning people away and i did 3 of those classes those weeks. We approached local restaurants to get them to put Keto meals on their menus, complete with all macros listed, and all have thanked me for putting best sellers on their menus. (turns out lots of people love a main with no pasta or potatos)

I'm happy to help you in any way i can..and even if you decide to do it different than i do..i can only offer the info but will support you whatever you decide!!

Holly
Northern NY
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1/16/21 8:15 A

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Holly that is awesome! for how long have you stayed under 20? Yesterday I hit 14.. 4 being that 1 tsp of sugar in coffee.. LOL I plan on eliminating that by next week

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1/15/21 3:31 P

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Cherie I do under 20 total carbs a day.

Holly
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1/15/21 3:06 P

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Figuring out the exact numbers are interesting, I have been watching Dr Boz Youtube channel.. she explains everything.
the high protein is like the carnavoir keto

What number of carb are you all working to stay at or under.. I am 20 or less

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6/29/18 11:22 A

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12 grams a day seems really low..i was told by my coach noone should go under 40 a day to get the proper nutrients.
we all have to follow what we think is best, but do check with your healthcare professional to be sure you are getting enough nutrients!

Holly
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6/29/18 9:37 A

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I have recently been going through VirtaHealth Keto plan and the way they explain the protein thing is that the body needs only a certain amount of protein at a given time. There are charts that approximate protein needs based on age, gender, activity levels etc. In my case, 12 grams a day. So I was to take that and divide by my total number of meals I would eat that day - if 3 meals and one snack, that is four meals and works out to a maximum 3 grams protein per meal. If Iím still hungry, eat more fat - butter, coconut oil, etc. (Or eat my low carb veggies too, of course.

If I ate too much protein then the body takes the extra protein and it is converted to more glucose - thatís why I shouldnít eat more protein (unless a person was physically active...).

It gets tricky because do you use the chart for your GOAL weight? Then you would have less protein. Otherwise using the chart at current weight will allow you to maintain your current weight.

That said... I am in chemo now for cancer so I have taste issues now and havenít felt like food for several days now. Waiting to read my new book Keto for Cancer...

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6/18/18 12:51 P

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There is much controversy over how much protein we should eat and Jimmy Moore has done a lot of interesting podcasts on the subject recently on the KetoHacking MD podcast series. Personally I do much better on more protein than is usually recommended. The reason it jhas been said the you cannot eat too much protein is the satiety factor. There is also the fact that if you are in ketosis and/or eat very little or no carbs your body acts very differently than a carb burning body. There are a lot of factors to take into consideration and a lot of research to be done.

Edited by: GRINGUITA at: 6/18/2018 (17:00)
Bev Anne
Okotoks, AB
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6/18/18 2:22 A

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So right Koshie, so right.

From a caveman's point of view, if you build a house out of wood, and you have too much wood, what do you do with the extra wood? Save it for later.

I view protein like that. You need so much for your muscles and organs and tissues, and what can you possibly do with any excess? Don't waste calories, you may need it later, so save those calories into body fat.

OK, pavement live in caves, not houses made of wood, but I think you get my idea.

James
Alberta, Canada


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6/17/18 6:12 P

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OH, you can DEFINITELY eat too much protein! I thought that was common knowledge! Dr. Atkins said that 45 years ago! (when I started the Atkins Diet). You can research it yourself. And every keto reference I've researched recently states that it is important that you eat just 'enough' protein and very little more than that. The problem is that there seems to be no definitive way to determine how much protein is too much without investing in expensive blood tests.
What happens to the excess protein you eat on ANY diet is called gluconeogenesis. I'll translate: Gluco means sugar. Neo means new. Genesis means creation. The creation of new sugar. If you eat too much protein, your body turns it into glycogen (which is a sugar) and stores as much of that as it can in your muscles, liver, and blood plasma -- this is only about a one-day supply. Your body then turns the rest of the glycogen into (what else?) FAT -- because you can store an UNLIMITED amount of fat! And your body doesn't waste fuel!

If you HAPPEN to be in a state of ketosis and haven't eaten too much fat at that meal, you'll then turn at least some of this freshly-made fat into ketones and exhale or pee it away. If you are NOT in ketosis, OR if you have eaten a lot of fat at the time, then.... dum de dum.... you store ALL the excess as fat!

The very LAST thing that your body uses as fuel is stored fat. And your body sticks ANY and all excess fuel you eat into fat cells. Check out Maria Emmerich's site -- she just made a video that explains all this. That is why it is so hard to lose weight.

Edited by: KOSHIE1 at: 6/17/2018 (18:13)
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4/20/18 9:51 A

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I dont agree that there are no studies..there are many..thats where the generally accepted under 75 grams came up. But, as always, everyone needs to do what is right for them.
exactly KD. and its my hardest macro to stay at. But if i do more than 60 grams of protein a day I dont lose, and sometimes gain. so if i want to get rid of this last bit i have to stay under 60.

The very definition of keto is high fat, moderate protein, very low carb. go high protein and its more like Atkins. For me, Atkins never worked..i gained 11 pounds in 6 weeks on Atkins, following it to a T. And heres where the individual stuff comes in..I know many who did excellent on Atkins..but i dont. In face, the Atkins Institute, when I was gaining, told me to cut my protein down to a few bites a day and increase the fat double. I didnt do it..this was in the early 2000s and my cardiologist was aghast. So i went off totally. Had i only known about keto then!!

Holly
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4/20/18 7:10 A

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I think Dr. Fung says if you're still actively losing weight, you may need only .4 grams of protein per kg of LBM. The calculations I have come up with (I still have about 30 pounds to lose) are 20 carbs, 40 protein, and 80+ fat. That seems to be about what I get. It's been an adjustment to get twice the fat, before I started tracking my macros my fat and protein were about equal.

It's been fun putting butter on steak, on veggies, dipping bacon in mayo, using a lot of dressing on salads, etc. etc. etc.

Now if the tasty peanut butter didn't have sugar in it.....

Karen "KD"





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4/16/18 10:53 P

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There are too many variables to do a proper study and one of the main variables is that everyone has a different body.

Bev Anne
Okotoks, AB
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"Everything will be alright in the end and if it's not alright then it's not the end" -- Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.



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4/16/18 6:09 P

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ahh but no studies with backup. ok. was hoping...I go by the studies that use controls.darn it!

Holly
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4/16/18 4:26 P

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I think I heard it first from a zero carb (carnivore) person. I think I also heard or read someone say that you can't get too much protein. I think this would be very individual and I am still in the process of deciding how much is right for me. Just saying that there is more than one opinion on the protein question out there.

Bev Anne
Okotoks, AB
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"Everything will be alright in the end and if it's not alright then it's not the end" -- Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.



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4/16/18 4:10 P

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Was my understanding that too much protein gets converted back to glucose... kinda like shooting your foot off...

I notice I feel better if my proteins come from veggies and fish or poultry... likely it's harder to ensure that the red meat hasn't also been treated with hormones or antibiotics etc. (The grass fed beef , if I make the long drive out to the farm to get it, seems to be better for me than store boughten beef.).

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4/16/18 3:43 P

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Hi Gringuita..where are you seeing this? Everything I can find shows women at no more than 75 grams protein daily and that’s for super athletes.(the rest of us between 45 and 60) Protein is the hardest thing for me to keep down would love it if they can prove otherwise!!

Holly
Northern NY
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4/16/18 2:36 P

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There is some evidence that if you are in ketosis you handle macros very differently and may need more protein than the standard amounts. I know I feel better with more protein and fewer carbs.

Bev Anne
Okotoks, AB
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"Everything will be alright in the end and if it's not alright then it's not the end" -- Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.



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4/16/18 12:27 P

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Common sense keto does the 0.8 i think for everyone. the coach there is a bodybuilder and he stays low always with no adverse effects.

Holly
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4/16/18 10:35 A

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If you "google the internet" you find articles like this one:
www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-muc
h-
protein-per-day

and you get numbers like 46 grams a day for women, 56 for men.

It seems low, but is it?
This page:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_(nutri
en
t)

provides the same two numbers, but a bit more logic on how they were arrived at. Basically it is your ideal body weight (you don't need extra protein to support extra body fat) multiplied by about 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight. (One kilogram is about 2.2 pounds).

So what if you are an athlete, and not sedentary? Then the last link makes an adjustment to about 1.2 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight, so for men rather than 55 grams a day it goes to about about 85 grams of protein a day. I'm no athlete, so it should be less than that. Indeed it would seem 85 or above is not really necessary for anyone.

What does the body do with extra protein? Burn it for fuel, or store it as body fat.

James
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