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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,310
5/22/12 9:51 A

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Solution for the Yankees = dispersal draft. Reverse of the standings. Let's see...

Twins get Texiaira, Padres get Cano, Diamondbacks get Granderson, Kansas City gets A-Rod...

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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MACMOM57's Photo MACMOM57 Posts: 35,768
5/22/12 9:36 A

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I agree they are not World Series bound at this time. But I feel they are doing well for being young. I do not agree about Jeter, Posada, Pettiete and Rivera they are a team of cheaters sorry.


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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
5/21/12 8:09 P

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Thanks for the support Boss. Seeing reality is not the same by any stretch as being a fair weather fan. In fact I think it's the opposite.

"Sir, your son will never go to college. Prepare him for trade school."
"But he got two B's on his last report card. He's Princeton-bound."

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,310
5/21/12 7:51 P

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Ah, Tim, so glad you started this thread. I also am a die-hard Orioles fan though I am a baby compared to you. The dawn of my baseball fandom was when Brooks Robinson won the MVP award and we almost won the pennant - in 1964.

I remember all the highs and lows too. Even the last time the Orioles were competitive ('96 and '97) seemed a surreal fiction because the team was full of bought players who had achieved stardom elsewhere. Bobby Bonilla anyone? Puullleeeaaasseee!

Unlike you and unlike many, I do not lay the problems of the last 14 years exclusively at Angelos' feet. The issue is more complex and really started in the early '80s. Edward Bennett Williams had bought a well-run organization and quickly ran it into the ground because of a consistent pattern of mortgaging the future for one more stab at a fleeting/aging present. Look no further than the mid 80s signings of aging has-beens like Fred Lynn, Dwight Evans, Lee Lacy, Don Aase, etc. In fact, around about 1985 or 1986, the Orioles had most of the starting players on the '78 Redsox on our roster. That was patently ridiculous.

Owners since repeatedly endeavored the same lightning-in-a-bottle approach to free agency, and repeatedly lacked patience for farm system development, scouting and all that kind of thing. Angelos did the same thing in the early years of his ownership, famously nixing a 1996ish trade of Palmeiro and Alomar for Jeter and Alfonso Soriano. How different the next decade would have been! With the Albert Belle signing and his soon-to-come injury, I believe Angelos learned his lesson about meddling. It took awhile for awareness of the learning of this lesson to be reflected in decision-making the fans saw, because of the Syd Thrift era. Melvin Mora aside, the Thrift era was a disaster because of Syd's reputation among baseball executives (not because of Angelos per se).

Andy MacPhail had a successful tenure; we now reap the seeds that he sowed. Dan Duquette seems decent so far as well. Now getting to your questions:



When you looked at this roster in March, would have said
a) Holy Cow! The glory days have returned.
b) I see some improvement -- This was me. I picked a wins total of 75.
c) A little change, but generally things are moving in the right direction
d) Business as usual for the last 14 years.



Can you honestly, really honestly say that, six weeks into the season the Orioles would:
a) be in a dog fight for fourth place in the AL East
b) Have a so-so record and solidly in fourth place -- Me. I thought and still think Boston is old. New York too. I thought 3rd, 4th and 5th were all equally likely.
c) have a winning record and solidly in third place
d) In first place but struggling to stay afloat
e) Firmly, if not solidly, in first place in the AL East with the best record in the AL, second best in MLB

I agree the team is playing way over its head. It reminds me of 1979, when the whole exceeded the sum of the parts. I think Jones and Wieters are core players. Maybe Arietta and Chen are as well, ditto Jim Johnson. None yet deserve to be in the same room with Frank, Boog, Brooks, Palmer. They can be compared to Dempsey, Singleton, Lowenstein, even Ripken though. And some may tell a different story through time. Remember, these guys are still quite young. Maybe its more like 1977 than 1979. Jones is Eddie.

I'll read the Passan link... and my revised prediction for the season is 79-83. A ten game improvement over last year is nothing to sneeze at.


"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
5/21/12 5:59 P

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I am a die-hard Orioles fan. I have been following the Orioles since that magical year of 1960 when they were scrapping with Yankees in September for the pennant. That may be why I don;t "hate" the Yankees. They were the other team I followed that first summer I discovered baseball.

I remember all the highs and lows. When the Orioles were a team to be reckoned with every year. Well, except maybe the middle to late 1980s. 1987 and 1988 were total disasters, but at least Orioles ownership was trying to do something about it. I did not feel like we had been given the finger by the front office.

It got so bad that one of the things that reportedly was bothering Mike Flanagan before he took his own life was that he felt the Orioles' fans blamed him and his stint as General Manager for the sorry state the team was in. Peter Angelos had driven the Orioles so far in the ditch that a man committed suicide over it.

Now be honest. Really honest.

When you looked at this roster in March, would have said
a) Holy Cow! The glory days have returned.
b) I see some improvement
c) A little change, but generally things are moving in the right direction
d) Business as usual for the last 14 years.

Honestly, I saw d).
Would you have REALLY picked a)? or even b)?

Can you honestly, really honestly say that, six weeks into the season the Orioles would:
a) be in a dog fight for fourth place in the AL East
b) Have a so-so record and solidly in fourth place
c) have a winning record and solidly in third place
d) In first place but struggling to stay afloat
e) Firmly, if not solidly, in first place in the AL East with the best record in the AL, second best in MLB

And of course, you would have honestly picked e) right? I would have picked a) or b).

Just being honest here. And I don't want to be disappointed again. It would be too much like giving a cheating lover the 15th chance to break my heart.

Is this team playing way over its head. You betcha. So far so that I think aliens have replaced them. People keep talking about a "core" like the Yankees' Jeter, Posada, Pettite, and Rivera. Do you really think Jones, Weiters, Markakis, and Arrieta is that kind of a core? They are good but do you think they deserve to be in the same room with Brooks, Frank, Boog, Blair, and Palmer?

Really? In all honesty?

Here is a good link. I read it after I wrote my post -- 10 Degrees: Examining some dubious starts --- by Jeff Passan tinyurl.com/7qbkjhz

He finds Adam Jones to be the real deal, but the Orioles, not so much. The Orioles run differential after 42 games is only +14. Even Boston has +17. And Texas has +84. Los Angeles Dodgers are at +45.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


MACMOM57's Photo MACMOM57 Posts: 35,768
5/21/12 5:39 P

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Seems like we have a lot of fair weather fans with the O's. Lots of negative thoughts from the start. They are holding there own. Been a fan of them a long time through thick and thin. I think they are a great team. With 2 gold glovers. They have worked very hard so far. I'm rooting them as usual. Let go O's.

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3CATSLEP's Photo 3CATSLEP SparkPoints: (134,506)
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5/21/12 4:00 P

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OH MY MY! Are you really an Orioles fan or a Pod person??? Those were some nasty comments about being has-beens and misfits! Sounds like you are like my husband...only a fair-weather fan. We might have to discipline you! Now lets play nice and and be good sportsmen on Spark!!!

~Laura
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3CATSLEP's Photo 3CATSLEP SparkPoints: (134,506)
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5/21/12 3:57 P

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OH MY MY! Are you really an Orioles fan or a Pod person??? Those were some nasty comments about being has-beens and misfits! Sounds like you are like my husband...only a fair-weather fan. We might have to discipline you! Now lets play nice and and be good sportsmen on Spark!!!

~Laura
Traverse City, MI


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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
5/21/12 2:07 P

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Six weeks into the season and this bunch of mutts, mis-fits, has-beens, and never-weres are in first place in the AL East, probably the toughest division in MLB, with the best record in the AL and the second best in MLB.

Who'da thunk it?

I am not expecting a World Series or even a play off spot. Until the 15 games against 2011 90-win club where they went 9-6 I was still expecting a losing season. Again. But they did well there, they got that winning feeling. The two games they won this weekend were both game they would have lost last year. The two best come-from-behind teams in baseball are the Orioles and the Nats. And they showed it.

So I am now thinking better than .500.

But best of all. The (Invasion of the) Body Snatchers may have replaced the 2012 Orioles with Pod People, but at least they are entertaining.

And that is something the Orioles have been sorely lacking in the last 14 years.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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