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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
7/7/10 12:27 P

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I'm glad you found the Relapse chapter, PENGUIN. You DO tend to clamp down. I fight that tendency as well.

I have had to learn, over and over, that willpower-based efforts accentuate black and white thinking, the old ON or OFF thing. Many times that has led me to feel so bad that I would just give up until I found the strength to start over.

When I have tried to FORCE myself to do things, I have often rebelled or found a way to sabotage myself. That's why I love Martha's emphasis on learning not to "bully" ourselves.

I think the "Back In the Saddle" 4-Day Win you've doing is a terrific choice for us when we need to relax and figure out what our bodies are trying to tell us about our lives.

Pouring on the steam is only helpful, AFTER we've taken stock and made changes in our direction. When we're having trouble, the body warns us that something is wrong with our approach by refusing to cooperate. We then make mistakes, which is our signal to stop and decide "hmmm, what do I need to do differently". A great chapter!
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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7/7/10 12:04 P

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I discovered a chapter called Relapse today. Timely. I certainly feel the instinct to clamp down when things aren't going well. I've known it isn't a good idea to clamp down, but that's still my inclination.

Need to identify my rewards for working through that chapter's exercise for 3 more days.

Simplify


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
7/7/10 12:04 P

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Hi, JOL!

Your tailoring is working for you. You often pinpoint something that you find troublesome and design a way to work on it for 4 days.

Even if it's difficult, you tell yourself "I can do anything for 4 days". I found it inspiring when you told us that the experience of doing whatever it is for 4 days has made you believe that you can now do some things that you thought you couldn't. Learning to believe in ourselves is an important skill, I think.

I am also inspired by your explanation of how good you feel overall because you are getting used to the small rewards you give yourself. Until a person tries lighting a candle or popping bubble wrap or buying an iTunes song to celebrate accomplishing a given behavior for a day, we don't know how it will feel. And when we consistently do it, you have described a cumulative effect, where you're really enjoying those little signs of your positive actions.

At first, most of us really have trouble learning to reward ourselves. We're so used to diving into the food for comfort that we forget to consider other things that make us feel good. We feel guilty buying things for ourselves. But we don't have to break the bank. A $4 bouquet from the grocery store, as a reward for 4 days of compliance with a positive behavior, sits there all week, reminding us that we do things right. It helps recover from our years of negative self-talk, at least, for me.
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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JOL1KEY2BOL3's Photo JOL1KEY2BOL3 Posts: 16,388
7/7/10 11:37 A

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I love Four Day Win as you all know and of course, have tailored it to my own needs. I just read chapter 1 and all your posts.

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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
7/1/10 6:53 P

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Are we on Chapter 2, yet? I'll re-read it, just in case.

I love Martha, too, JAZZ. The two of you DO have a similar sense of humor.
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I was really struggling when I first read Four-Day Win. I feel a lot better about myself because of things I've learned from the book.


Edited by: BARBARA_BOO at: 7/1/2010 (19:19)
Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
7/1/10 5:44 P

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Just peeping in to say hi, mostly so I'll start to get the posts.

I haven't finished this book, and since it was last summer (?) when I was reading, best to start again!

I look forward to what you have to say...

Jazzie

PS: I LOVE Martha Beck...some of you have heard this before, but she was raised in the same church that I was, and in a small town close to where I was. I feel like I have a kindred spirit!

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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CRIMSONSKY's Photo CRIMSONSKY Posts: 666
6/28/10 9:36 A

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It's interesting to see how you are using this book to help you out. I'm luckily at a point where I've managed to develop my own way of thinking to help me meet my goals. But it's enlightening to see how you see things. A lot of this journey seems to be about where our head is at. I suppose this struggle is a synonym for life. If we can control our weight issues, think of what else we can achieve? Thanks for sharing.

ďThe Vision of a Champion is someone who is bent over, drenched in sweat, at the point of exhaustion, when no one else is watching.Ē
- Anson Dorrance in a note to Mia Hamm.


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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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6/24/10 3:50 A

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Ok, so I keep going back to chapter one- and thinking- ya know, I really DON'T know what hunger is any more?
I've got to work on that 1-10 hungry scale.
Cause- when I'm really, really, really working my weight stuff, I'm careful to NEVER get hungry- really hungry. I do careful snacks. And when I slip and forget my snacks- I get ravenous. And I don't notice how hungry I am until I'm practically sick with it. Hmmm. Working on paying attention to my belly ALOT right now. Baby steps are good.

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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6/23/10 8:24 P

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Yo, My Peeps!!!

As you know, I adore this book. As much as I have 'learned' some of it, I still need refreshers and references, too.

Comment on Ridiculously Easy -- I just today wrote a blog about my 2500 calories a day 4DW goal. Already feeling the love (for myself) since I set that one yesterday. Day 2 now ending.

About Chapter 10, Mare, I have the hardest time feeling the compassion for the Dictator that I do for the Wild Child. Maybe this time through I'll focus on that.

Thanks for the Book Club!
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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/23/10 8:23 P

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That's another "early win", ANNE. You've done 2 days in a row. It sounds like you are feeling better already because you're making a dent in the work, instead of just letting it torment your mind.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you feel after your 4th day.

I'm going to be away at a resort tomorrow and Friday. I'll be out by the pool, strutting my stuff, instead of standing around in black clothing with very tight underwear, like I used to at these kinds of events.

I've been doing well with my thinking, planning and following through for almost 4 months, and I'm feeling successful and empowered. Wow! I just noticed. In 3 more days, I could be celebrating a 4-MONTH win.
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Martha promises that we can reverse the thought patterns that allowed us to overeat. In chapter 1 (page 7), she asks that we open ourselves to "hope". "to believe that the damage can be undone, and that it is possible to dissolve not only your double chin but many of the problems that have affected your self-concept, your relationships, and your ability to achieve any goal."

I believe her.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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ANN5497's Photo ANN5497 Posts: 1,591
6/23/10 6:13 P

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My 15 minute cleaning project today was the downstairs bathroom and a load of laundry.

Add to that the carpet we ripped up, rolled up, and disposed of from the family room, it was a good day.

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. Anais Nin


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/22/10 9:20 P

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ANNE, I really love it when I have just cleaned my kitchen floors, too.
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Later on in the book, Martha talks about making our own custom 4-day wins for things that bother us, as a way to reduce the stress that can lead to overeating. I think your choice was a great one.

I'm decluttering again. Last year, I got rid of a lot, which made it much easier to keep things relatively clean. Now, I'm working on the spare room and basement, the areas I didn't get to last year.

I am positive that having so much "stuff" to take care of was contributing to my eating problems.

I needed to have less to clean and some routine things that I do every day that don't take a lot of time. I guess it's similar to what maintaining our weight loss will be.
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MARE, I just love your verbal "comeback" when you were criticized for painting in your bra.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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ANN5497's Photo ANN5497 Posts: 1,591
6/21/10 9:50 A

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I've been trying to read the book for several weeks now (checked it out of the library and it is due back soon).

I am only in Chapter 1, and need to set a ridiculously easy goal. I am choosing something not directly related to weight loss, but that requires physical activity, and is something that needs work in my life - keeping my house clean. My goal is to complete one 15 minute cleaning chore each day.

Yesterday, I swept and mopped my kitchen floor. OK - that took more than 15 minutes, but it felt so good to have it done. Haven't decided what I am doing today, but I am committed to do something.

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. Anais Nin


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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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6/21/10 4:04 A

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Rina and Salee- I was painting the outside of my house in my bra on a very humid hot day, and a young woman started chewing me out about wearing a bra outside, and about how fat I was and yada, yada. I looked at her, starred hard, & told her that it took YEARS of being nagged at to get me to wear a bra.
Nuff said.
Tee hee. I was over 300 at the time.
I'm re-reading 4 Day Win- and trying to get myself to do some of the exercises. I promised myself that I would do that- first time was a quick peruse, and congratulating myself at how many of the techniques I had sort of discovered for myself on my long journey to health and flexibility.
This time... dang, I'm supposed to be trying them, and dang, if it ain't hard to do.
My Chapter 1 ridiculously low goal was to do 60 jogging steps. 60 steps- not minutes, not yards, but steps... I did that for 3 4 day wins, but it didn't lead any where- on the other hand, 5 days ago I ran (all out ran) for a block to catch somebody in a car- and it was easy. I mostly stick to fast walking cause it's easier on my joints.
I'm on CHAPTER 10- so read this part when you want to discuss that. I've been picturing my dictator, who looks like a 40's librarian, with pursed lips and her glasses on a chain around her neck. She tut tuts, and tells me what's up. Her frown of disapproval is nasty. She has a scale and measuring cup in each hand. My wild child is a hippy... wearing beads, doing drugs like chocolate and chips, convinced of her invulnerability, sure she knows everything will work out, just here to groove on it all. My witness is in guru garb... sitting in the lotus position, gazing with complete love at both of them.
Kind of fun.... just loving them all. Hmmm- I'm not supposed to break out the 'witness', but she keeps getting her own face. So... who witnesses the witness?

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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SALEE100's Photo SALEE100 SparkPoints: (0)
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6/20/10 9:57 P

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I totally rebelled against the quick start, too. I had been dieting for several years and I felt that I needed to take this book slow to find out what I was doing wrong.

Rina, I think I've had a pretty healthy body image for most of my life too. I still remember as a young adult and 20 pounds heavier than I am now, mowing the lawn in my bikini. I lived in suburbia in south florida, lots of neighbors! I didn't care who stared. I'm still like that, but minus the extra weight, since I'm now maintaining.

~ Susan

Even if our efforts of attention seem for years to be producing no results, one day a light in the exact proportion to them will flood the soul.
~Simone Weal


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/20/10 2:07 P

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I like your approach of breaking it into chapters, to help us be more organized, RINA.

My brain rebelled against the "jump-start", too. For me, it sounded like "quick fix", which I am also not seeking. Others might prefer it. We all have our own methods of learning.

The habit of "jumping in to judge or condemn ourselves" before someone else does has helped us cope with the way many in our culture view us. It's why comics tell self-deprecating "fat" jokes, which I don't find funny. It's why your daughter had trouble understanding the bike shorts in the FRONT YARD.
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Good for you and your friends for threatening her with bikinis!

Old habits, like that one, can be weakened by not repeating them very often. Finding new habits to replace them and to reinforce with repetition is something I'm looking at as an adventure.

Coach Dean's writings have helped me stop my negative self-talk, although subtle negativity creeps in from time to time, like this week when I mentioned it sounded vain to admire the changes to my body in the mirror and brag about them. I agree with you and others who reminded me that I am earning those "bragging rights" by working on my goals. Shoot, yeah! We look good when our muscles start to show.


At first, it required an "act of will to push away the judgement" and be kind to myself. (I like your phrase.) I was used to picking on myself for every mistake.

Now, I'm trying to give credit when credit is due, which is after every positive step I take.

In chapter one, Martha talks about "thinking ourselves fat". She says she knows first-hand what it's like to spend years feeling completely out of control in any area connected with food and eating. So, do I.

She says she also knows what it feels like to be set free from the struggle. She didn't do it by finding the "Right Diet" or achieving "superhuman willpower". She did it by learning to operate her mind and thoughts in ways that science has now proven literally alters our brains.

The chapter is called "Why Are You So Damn Fat?". She says (page 3): "At the most fundamental and important level, it's because of the way your brain has been conditioned to operate--because of the way you think. And that's what this book is going to help you change."

I think I'm actually making some progress in changing the way I think, which pleases me.

I have lost and regained 100 lbs several times in the last 30 years. Superhuman willpower was not enough. In fact, it was too much. I have taken "force" out of my plans. It kept me yoyoing. I don't miss it. It had too many "side effects".
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As you can tell, the book really "hits the spot" for me. Love it.

Edited by: BARBARA_BOO at: 6/20/2010 (14:18)
Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/20/10 1:13 P

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We were typing at the same time, RINA!
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/20/10 1:08 P

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Hi, JANENE!

Minor details.
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For those who have yet to read the book, I guess it WOULD be helpful to know the title. Sorry about that. It's "The Four-Day Win", author Martha Beck, PhD.

She is a Harvard-educated life coach and monthly columnist for Oprah's Magazine. DANCINGPENGUIN recommended the book to those of us who are participating in the "2010 WIN" challenge. I think it's a life-changing tool. At least, it is for ME.

If anyone is turned off by "life coachy" stuff or is sick of reading "diet" books (I am), this book is different. Martha does use some "cutesy" terms like, "End Your Diet War and Achieve Thinner Peace", but those words sell books. She refers to the part of us that pushes us to overeat as our starving "Wild Child" and the part of us that cracks the whip and orders us to follow strict rules as our "Dictator". She speaks of our "Watcher" as the part of us that is calmly, compassionately observing our inner dialogue, in order to make decisions.

Once you get into her writing style, "cutesy" is not a problem. I rather enjoy it. The book has a lot of NEW information about how we can undo damage we did to our thought-patterns with the "dieter's mentality" that Coach Dean of SparkPeople says doesn't work (and our experience tells us the same thing). All of those years of mass-appeal diets takes a toll. And this book is helping me "unlearn" and grow mentally and emotionally.

Some of the HIGHLIGHTS:

~Why don't we DO what we KNOW?
We don't understand the brain-body dynamics of weight loss. Cutting-edge research says many program themselves to get fatter, following the typical weight-loss advice. We can get lean from the brain outward.

~Traditional dieting relies on the ability to "go numb" or override physical and emotional feelings.

~Overeating is a self-calming compulsion similar to OCD, turning to food (and lots of it) when deprived of comfort.

~Overweight people can REVERSE the brain-body programming that promotes being fat.

~Martha encourages the reader to question the opinions of experts, including her.

At the end of each short chapter, there's a psychological exercise. The book is written so that it can be read from cover to cover, or selected chapters, or use the jump-start program near the end of the book. The exercises are called "4-day wins".

I read the whole book. I've done some of the exercises and created a few of my own. And I love going back to review.

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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JANENE413's Photo JANENE413 SparkPoints: (16,336)
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6/20/10 12:52 P

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I always seem to miss the obvious . . . I'll be checking it out soon! Thanks for the clarification. :)

J.
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"Be kinder than necessary 'cause everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." Mark Twain
I just renamed my tablet to Titanic. It's syncing now.


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REIGNWATER Posts: 431
6/20/10 12:51 P

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[To keep us a little organized, how about if we note at the beginning of each post the chapter being discussed?]

Chapter One

When reading books like this I try to notice my mind tries to gloss over and not really take in. Sometimes that is telling. For me, I found my mind rebelling when she emphasized getting a quick start. I actually consider this a good sign - that I've moved past looking for the quick fix. I do understand why it's there and mentioned. That was my only negative reaction in this chapter and I had several positive ones.

I like her writing style. Friendly yet authoritative with her facts backed up with information. That's the sort of style that keeps my intellect busy while attracting my heart.

The challenge - that where we are, who we are, what we weigh, - the whole package, is ok and just fine today exactly as it is. I've got part of this in hand, but it's one of those things where there's plenty of room for improvement. Do I wish I looked differently? Of course. But (!) I am ok! I look alright, I clean up ok, my body does all the things I want it to mostly. My relationship with food is better than it has been in many other parts of my life. I have demons, but they live in the back of my mind, no longer dominating most of the time, only occasionally coming out to play.

For many years this acceptance has been an act of will - almost an exercise. Push away the judgment and just be kind. However, it's a precarious balance. Several years ago when I was having trouble with stretching certain muscles due to my size, I went to a massage therapist who was a dear friend (now deceased) who I trusted to treat me with love and concern, because I was not convinced everyone would understand. Also years ago, my daughter informed me no one should wear bicycle shorts and was mortified that I dared to wear them while redoing the front yard. Several friends and I worked very hard on recalibrating her and threatened to find bikinis and wear them in the front yard instead.

So, internally I feel I have some acceptance. In some ways though the biggest area for improvement is in not jumping to judge or condemn myself so I can get there before others do.

I'll read chapter 2 later.

Rina

REIGNWATER Posts: 431
6/20/10 12:37 P

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I am so sorry. Should have put it in the body as well. It's "The Four Day Win" by Martha Beck.

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6/20/10 12:01 P

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OK, I'll be the dummy and ask what the title of "the book" is. Couldn't tell from the first 2 posts . . .

"Clueless"
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"Be kinder than necessary 'cause everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." Mark Twain
I just renamed my tablet to Titanic. It's syncing now.


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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
6/18/10 5:49 P

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I'd love to walk through it with you, RINA. And I'm pretty sure others will join us.

You lead the way. Just start reading and reacting to what you've read. I'll follow close behind you, whatever direction you take.

It's a book that some like to read by skipping around to areas of special interest. Others just read it cover-to-cover. I've done both. Mine has notes all over it.

I'm using it to help me re-train my brain, from all of those years of dieting craziness.

Any time you feel like putting the book down, to mull over something, just do it. Your "mullings" usually result in thoughts that can be a benefit to us all.

Martha's pretty funny and fun to read. I think you'll enjoy her.
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Edited by: BARBARA_BOO at: 6/18/2010 (17:51)
Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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REIGNWATER Posts: 431
6/18/10 4:01 P

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Ok - I know a bunch of you have already read this, but you seem to get a lot from it. Given that, and my growing respect for this group, I bought it today.

Self-help books for issues I actually have and take seriously make me nervous though. Really very nervous. I'm going to walk into it slowly. Giving myself permission to put it down and mull or get comfortable for a while if I need to.

Yet I was wondering if anyone would like to walk through this with me together. Scary stuff usually works better together. Isn't that the whole idea behind Spark? We could make a little book discussion folder - or maybe a series of them each for a separate chapter.

Thoughts?

Rina

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