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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
5/7/10 10:38 A

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Head banging RE germ protection from supplements. Yes indeed.

I'm a fan of my vitamin D & fish oil. I also take Juice Plus and give it to hubbie, children when they're visiting AND my dog daily. That said, they are supplements and the food we eat is my main focus.

Here's my philosophy:
#1. Acupuncture, supplements, chiropractic (married to one...make use of it frequently) for PREVENTION. I'm with you, Val, these things do not have negative side effects and they make me feel great.

#2. Bring in the MDs & Rx when needed. And they ARE needed sooner or later for the vast majority of us.

Skeptic Magazine RIPS chiropractic, acupuncture, homeopathy, et al. I still like to read it and I sometimes ask DH questions. However, he has seen a change recently. He now works closely with physical therapists and MDs and it seems much more mainstream than in years past. This is anecdotal and therefore not at all scientific: but if I have a headache, DH can make it go away. PERIOD. No drugs. Works for me!

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
5/7/10 10:08 A

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I think my opinion on supplements is similar to yours. There are cases when a person will need to take a vitamin, but I don't think most people need them. And taking any quantity of vitamins won't immunize you against germs.

I'd be curious to see the research that you say shows positive effects of homeopathy. Have their been any decent studies of it that someone else has been able to replicate?

As for your points A and B, while a lack of side effects is good, if that comes with a lack of actual effects that doesn't mean much. But on the other hand when people start using homeopathy in place of scientifically proven medication for serious injuries then a case could be made that using homeopathy is deadly. And it's cheaper than actual medication, but if it doesn't actually do anything (not counting a possible placebo effect) than taking nothing at all would be even cheaper, just as effective, and even less likely to cause side effects.

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5/7/10 5:22 A

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@Darkly: I was talking about farm animals, I don't think they interact much with the farmers.
Even if it were a "placebo," it might be better to use that for minor diseases rather than "feeding" them with more antibiotics and hormones.

I completely understand your opinion, my opinion on supplements is rather similar to yours on homeopathy.


I read the article you mentioned, it is a shame that nearly half of the article is about "illegal marketing [sold] under-the-counter." We have all received junk mails about medicines which are faux pills, you can also find "illegal marketing" on supplements, or even on food produces.
(I've never seen illegal claims on homeopathy boxes in my pharmacy. I used "pharmacy" rather than "drugstore" on purpose because "drugstores" don't exist over here, it looks like more of a "chemist's shop" -as used by the British.)
I can also provide links to research made by British universities on homeopathy showing the positive effects.

The reason why I'd choose homeopathy for some specific cases, it is because it is:
a) safer: no side effects known.
b) cheaper: keep in mind we have a national health and pensions organization, and private health insurance--refunding medicines prescribed by a doctor, including homeopathy, and that we're also the infamous "champions" of Europe for taking antidepressant pills every time we're a bit stressed or can't sleep.
I'd prefer doctors to prescribe homeopathy for anxiety during a short period of time when there is no sign of severe depression rather than prescribing a heavy, long and addictive treatment with side effects.

You might think it is a kind of psychosomatic medicine, I do think self-prescribed supplements work that way too.
When I read once on the DailySpark a member's comment saying that thanks to her multivitamins she is immunized to all the germs which can be on the machines she uses on her local gym, I banged my head on my keyboard.
I hope you aren't banging your head on your keyboard, otherwise let me know we could have a group discount for new keyboards. :)

@Jazz: That's the first time I hear about acupuncture on animals. I've had acupuncture a few times (when I had trouble to sleep due to a very stressful job environment, and it helped me to relax and sleep better. Placebo or not, I thought it was better to give it a try rather than taking addictive sleeping pills with side effects.)
I quickly browsed the Skeptic Magazine you mentioned, I liked the few articles I've read, I added it in my favorites to read what they say about acupuncture and other subjects.

@Barbara: that's a lot of "snorting" people!

EDIT: for misspelling, grammar, syntax and more...

Edited by: _VALEO_ at: 5/7/2010 (05:34)
Valerie

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra



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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
5/6/10 7:11 P

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I'm a mixed breed of humanoid. I subscribe to Skeptic Magazine and have gone to hear Michael Shermer speak. However, I swear by my acupuncturist. She was a surgeon in China. I rarely go to my MD (rarely NEED to go...), but I schedule a monthly visit with her. My vet now does acupuncture as well, which is really exciting. My 9-year-old Lab may experience that some day, arthritis in the shoulder is showing up.

Jazz



Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
5/6/10 7:09 P

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Animals can be affected by the placebo effect because they can respond to the humans around them who expect them to get better or feel less pain. Plus we add in our own feelings when analyzing their reaction to a treatment. If we think they're supposed to get better, we will look for signs that they're getting better because that's what we want to see.

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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
5/6/10 7:02 P

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I just did a team search for HCG, and there are SIX support group teams on SparkPeople for it. One has 1454 members.
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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5/6/10 6:46 P

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I know homeopathy can be contreversial. Some said it's like a placebo, but some veterinarians over here use homeopathy on animals suffering from minor diseases and it seems to work well--I don't think animals can "feel" the placebo effects.

I've used homeopathy for minor diseases (motion sickness, cold,...), and it is prescribed by my GP.


I know that homeopathy is not very used in the US (something like 2%), it is more here (around 35%). It might be a cultural difference supplements seem very dubious and controversial to us when homeopathy is not or less, and vice versa in the US.



Edited by: _VALEO_ at: 5/6/2010 (18:48)
Valerie

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra



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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
5/6/10 4:34 P

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Actually, I am against homeopathy because there's no proof it's effective at curing anything.

www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelated
To
pics/homeo.html


Ditto acupuncture for anything other than pain relief.

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_VALEO_'s Photo _VALEO_ SparkPoints: (94,400)
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5/6/10 11:08 A

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Suddenly, I remember that some years ago one of my cousins who was trying to lose weight used to cross the border to get injections of a hormone (don't know if it is this one, but I know it was something illegal in France and legal in Switzerland.)
The injections made her so sick that a friend of her had to drive her there and back... the only thing she lost was money.

I'm not against alternative medicine nor holistic medicine, on the contrary--it can help for some "minor" diseases and relieve some pain, but the person must have studied medicine before doing homeopathy, acupuncture or anything else.
On this website, the woman in charge of the weight lost program is not even a registered dietician, she majored in Spanish! Maybe it explains why they don't use injections but make it snort?



Few years ago, I also tried mesotherapy with my GP to get rid of my muffin-tops, all I can say: it hurts and after several sessions I couldn't stand the view of the needle! The result was not spectacular, it's really for those having 1-2 pounds to lose or some localized cellulite.

Edited by: _VALEO_ at: 5/6/2010 (11:10)
Valerie

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra



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SCHWINNER!'s Photo SCHWINNER! Posts: 3,338
5/6/10 7:25 A

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www.dietscam.org/reports/hcg.shtml

"Since 1975, the FDA has required labeling and advertising of HCG to state:

HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity. There is no substantial evidence that it increases weight loss beyond that resulting from caloric restriction, that it causes a more attractive or "normal" distribution of fat, or that it decreases the hunger and discomfort associated with calorie-restricted diets."

Pretty much confirms my suspicions! Someone on the other thread said there's an HCG team here on Spark!? Scary!!

MIKIIO, I looked at her website, but I didn't look into the healing stuff...WOW. Holistic healing of AIDS? Ooooookay.


Edited by: SCHWINNER! at: 5/6/2010 (07:25)
It doesn't matter how slowly you go, only that you don't stop.

If today were perfect, there would be no need for tomorrow.

Bliss cannot be disturbed by loss or gain.
_VALEO_'s Photo _VALEO_ SparkPoints: (94,400)
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5/5/10 6:07 P

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I checked your link, and browsed the website.
Anyone claiming that they could provide "significant healing" for AIDS, and cancer are quacks in my book, so I don't think much about their weight loss program.






Valerie

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra



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BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
5/5/10 2:44 P

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I can't get the picture out of my mind of a person "snorting hormones".
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Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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SCHWINNER!'s Photo SCHWINNER! Posts: 3,338
5/5/10 2:43 P

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Yup, the more people I talk to and the more googling I do, the more I'm realizing this lady is full of it. She had a photo album of before-after photos, but I wanted to hear about people that did this years ago and have still kept of the weight.


It doesn't matter how slowly you go, only that you don't stop.

If today were perfect, there would be no need for tomorrow.

Bliss cannot be disturbed by loss or gain.
BARBARA_BOO's Photo BARBARA_BOO Posts: 9,794
5/5/10 2:41 P

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If it quacks like a duck, it's a QUACK!
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The "diet industry" makes a lot of money off of our vulnerabilities. SparkPeople is working to help us move beyond "diet mentality" and into making gradual changes that we enjoy and can live with as we get healthier and lose weight in the process.

Sadly, there are plenty of people still looking for the "magical answer" to make them skinny. Skinny people aren't always deliriously happy and problem-free. Some of them are unhealthy because they don't exercise or eat a balanced diet.

Bummer!

Boo, Barb, BSue, Queen Legarathien of Nargothrond

"YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO PLAY!"

~Team Leader, Separation of Church and Weight
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=2072

~Team Leader, The Darker Side of SparkPeople www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=89


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JAZZIEGIRL05's Photo JAZZIEGIRL05 Posts: 1,178
5/5/10 2:32 P

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Just the word Kevin Trudeau is enough to make me RUN FOR MY LIFE!! That guy is a total fraud.

My MIL bought me his book. I didn't even want to sell it back to Half-Priced books 'cuz someone else might get it! I think I recycled in the bin.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
-Samuel Beckett

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
-Dr. Seuss


These are my principles. If you donít like them, Iíve got others.
- Groucho Marx



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SCHWINNER!'s Photo SCHWINNER! Posts: 3,338
5/5/10 11:06 A

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(Also posted on the LAH team)

I just came from a presentation advertised as "the Holistic weight loss cure" or something like that. It was presented by a woman who owns/runs a weight loss center www.PiWeightloss.com .

The basic principle based on her "research" and "training" (though she never specified what she did) is based on Kevin Trudeau's book The Weight Loss Cure. That basic premise is founded on hormone found in pregnant women. So this woman adapted her program from his book, and out of her weight loss center, the associated doctor prescribes HGC hormone for her clients to snort up their nose. This apparently trains or shuts down or does something to your hypothalamus gland.

Her center also offers fitness and nutritional evaluations/assistance, as well as other counseling. She also mentioned a sample diet during Phase II, where you are taking the hormone, which consisted of TWO MEALS A DAY. Breakfast was tea, coffee, or water, and lunch/dinner is 3.5 oz. of lean protein and a bunch of veggies. Weight loss typically is 1/2 - 1 lb. a DAY, but it's okay, she says, because you're no losing structural fat!

She also talked about toxins in our bodies, HFCS, and carbohydrates - how processed foods are harming us, etc. But hey, it's okay to snort a hormone up your nose!

I walked out of there so disappointed and kind of upset - this woman sounds like such a quack. To top it off, it's $400 the first month, followed by $99 a month after that.

What's your take on all this nonsense?

The sad part is I know there are people who were in that seminar that will be reeled in by this. To me, it just smacks of taking the wrong approach - it's not about health and cardiovascular fitness, it's all about being skinny.


Edited by: SCHWINNER! at: 5/5/2010 (11:07)
It doesn't matter how slowly you go, only that you don't stop.

If today were perfect, there would be no need for tomorrow.

Bliss cannot be disturbed by loss or gain.
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