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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
5/9/19 7:54 P

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Gail
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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
5/9/19 6:16 P

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Wouldn't surprise me! It really is a small small world!

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
5/9/19 6:01 P

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you never know. For all we know they already have met.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
5/9/19 2:07 P

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I have a friend who used to work at NIH in alternative medical practices - but I think she's now at either the FDA or the Dept of Health and Human Services.

On second thought, I've edited out the name of my friend. Discretion being the better part of valor and sayings like that.



Edited by: PHEBESS at: 5/9/2019 (20:47)
"Dance as if no one is watching."


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
5/9/19 12:51 P

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Mark, I'm sure our kiddos will meet at a conference or on the Hill someday. It's a small healthcare policy world! Of course, they won't know each other, or that they have a whole fan section cheering them on from Sparkyland!

He has been working this semester as an intern for a different department at this agency. A position opened up and it's the kind of job he has hoped for since starting this journey. Timing is everything.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

Gail
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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
5/9/19 8:55 A

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I'm not telling Thing One...

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
5/9/19 6:08 A

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mazel tov!!!

PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
5/9/19 12:12 A

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YAY! Mazel tov!!!

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
5/8/19 11:52 P

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Good question because it's one of those unique to DC places! He will be working for a federally authorized healthcare policy research institute.


It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

Gail
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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,056
5/8/19 11:06 P

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Terrific news! YAY!

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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5/8/19 10:31 P

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congrats!
govt? govt contractor? nothing really to do with govt (in dc? hmmm) lol

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
5/8/19 8:42 P

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Excellent!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
5/8/19 8:36 P

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Proud to share my son has successfully sent in his resume', interviewed, and has been accepted for his first "real job" in DC. All rules of traditional etiquette were followed.
emoticon

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,056
5/6/19 12:08 P

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Then perhaps her case is different. I wish her well.

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
~ Me


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5/6/19 1:24 A

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well they wanted someone with expertise in their area and she didnt have any, but they want to talk to her next time a position comes up. works for her anyway - she's not ready to stop working from home most days lol. her baby is 5 months old

NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,056
5/5/19 11:55 P

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SAK, your second child's situation I have recently heard similar. So much so, I asked a colleague about it, as I had never seen that before. She said she had as did several other colleagues. Not sure why they do that.

Edited by: NUMD97 at: 5/8/2019 (23:07)
Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
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NUMD97's Photo NUMD97 Posts: 10,056
5/5/19 1:20 P

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Some years back I had a "cattle call interview" where all of us met in a conference room and were interviewed en masse. Major medical center in NY. I found it stunning, but later learned it is not unusual. There were two slots. I later discussed this with the recruiter and thought a woman who came in late (had a very good reason -- the train was stalled on the tracks, totally out of her control and she did call to tell them why and that she would be a little late) got one of the slots as she was a perfect fit. Now my question for the recruiter was who got the other slot. It was me, and no, she did not get the job. I was stunned. Now, get the reason why: "She sighed." I asked her to repeat that. When she sat down, she sighed. So, no job. To say that I was stunned would be an understatement.

My friend gave me sage advice years ago: Apply and then forget it till they contact you.

Someone as you describe, sounds very young and inexperienced. I would not discount him/her, but if hired would make sure that boundaries were clearly established.

As to follow up post interview: One week is the norm. After thank you notes after the interview. But I am reading recently that the young 'uns are no longer doing that. Who cares? I always believe in courtesy and will always follow up with a note.

Now about a position that I flew in for to PA. Been over 17 years. Is that enough time to wait for an answer?

Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Willing is not enough. We must do.
~ Goethe

Dare to dream.
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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
5/4/19 9:44 A

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good luck wiht that one

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
5/3/19 7:54 P

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We have one coming in Monday who is "one of us.' Last name "Weiss.' Hillel on his resume....

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
5/3/19 6:21 P

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Mark, let's hope it never happens again - for you, as well as for that interviewee!!

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
5/2/19 6:13 A

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I am sure it was awkward at first!!! on the applicant side, being in Minnesota and a former bus rider - taking buses in the cold, the snow, and the rain, to interviews, never cried. but move forward from that end

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
5/1/19 12:47 P

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We've interviewed lots of people. It was an awkward, first.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
5/1/19 12:38 P

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Exactly, Gwyn! I couldn't imagine crying in an interview, ever! (And I've gone to two interviews sopping wet because I didn't have a car, so I walked in the rain! If that isn't worth crying over, what is???)

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
5/1/19 6:03 A

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sobbing in an interview is never good. I have lots of experince interviewing for jobs---never once broke down crying during an interview -- in fact never cried after the interview happened even if it was a "bad" interview

PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
4/30/19 5:07 P

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Ah, okay. I'm always curious about people.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
4/30/19 4:46 P

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An emotional wreck in general.

Technical skills questions brought it on.

She is a no-go. Other fish in the sea.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
4/30/19 11:30 A

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Oh my. I can't even imagine ending up sobbing in a job interview. Did she ever explain why? Her dog just was hit by a car? Just lost a parent? Dumped by her fiancÚ? Something that could give a clue what was going on? (So that you'd know she wasn't an emotional wreck in general.)

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
4/30/19 7:53 A

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Yeah we've moved on.

Yesterday's interviewee broke down sobbing. Twice. We've moved on from her too.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
4/30/19 7:42 A

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Mark this applicant has chutzpah for sure if he does all that!

PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 5,662
4/28/19 2:04 A

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I've not worked outside the home in over 20 years, but I still read all the business sections of the paper and the various columns about how to do with obtuse job applicants who are not above "embellishing" their resumes. I've listened to my husband at various times when he has had to sit in on interviewing teams and do that process of evaluating - it's a bigger deal at his company and always requires several rounds of interviews and team interviews.

I'd go with your gut about the "puffery" and assume that it's more than likely true. There are ways of "trust but verify" options to prove that a person did actually graduate from Baby Doc U with this or that stated degree. Hopefully your HR has some insight as to how that's done or their plans to verify the applicant's credentials along their process. Most previous employers are not allowed to say much other than confirm yes or no a person did or didn't work there...because of the possibility of lawsuits. Who knows? the person could have been fired for being insubordinate - and you may be catching a whiff of future problems with this person trying to do an end run around your hiring process. (Am I using the sports metaphors correctly? It's past midnight thirty....).

But yea, let it roll over to voice mail for sure!!

She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
Proverbs 31:17


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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
4/27/19 6:14 P

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emoticon emoticon 2 degrees in 5 years too ... efficient way to get it done!

You've got to ask the right questions to get to a solid answer and it sounds like you've got your answer. He's knocked out in Round 1, and 3 strikes he's out (and I'm out of sports metaphors).
or ...
Of course, he wants a new position because he likes the idea of a new challenge ... and ask about weaknesses and you'll probably hear he works too hard! He might not know the going rate and simply decided to ask for something a lot more than his recent paycheck. I bet he'd be willing to negotiate on salary. And lucky you, he can start on Wednesday ... unless he wants to give you a few days to prepare for his arrival in which case he will be in your office one week from Monday.

If I was you, and he called again, I would tell him you can't bias the interview protocol by speaking with an applicant. Tell him he can contact HR if he has questions about the application process.

Edited by: ECOAGE at: 4/27/2019 (18:20)
It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

Gail
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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
4/27/19 6:01 P

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Yeah, I wouldn't pursue it. You could tell him he's overqualified for the position, or that his asking salary is more than the current rate at your place. If you want to soften the blow, you can tell him you'll hold his resume/application in case something opens up in the future that better suits his qualifications.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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4/27/19 5:33 P

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Oh man. Guess I just skimmed too fast. Yup. Done. Next!

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
4/27/19 5:28 P

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Graduating with a Master's in 4, not 5. Pedal to the medal...

The applicant in question has a MS plus about three. A closer read of his cover letter reveals his availability to be April 30. Possibly he lost his job. That said, here are the concerns in no particular order:

1. His ask is a full $10K a year above the tippy top end of the local budget for a talent of his level of education and experience.

2. Endeavoring to bypass and short-circuit our process exhibits gall.

3. He is (was?) employed by one of the largest and most "big name" firms on this industry. Why he would leave, volunarily or otherwise, begs questions.

4. The detailed skillset he presents on his resume and Linkedin page are too could to be true for a person with two or three times the years of experience. I smell substantial puffery. And why would preeminent competitor let such a worthy employee go?

I could go on...

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
4/27/19 2:19 P

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I sorta' thought you were not asking for a friend. :-)

Does your enthusiasm for mentoring extend to social skills?

I might have been excessively hard with my first thoughts. I suppose this could be behavior isolated to the stress of looking for a job in a competitive environment without a ton of available jobs in your area of expertise. Maybe, there is a better attitude when comfortable and secure at a job. What's on this candidate's resume'? Did this person stay at a job for a few years and is currently looking for a career step up? Or is there an indication of a possible history of multiple short-term jobs ending with we've got to find a way to get this person out of our office?

I imagine this applicant is young and a fairly recent graduate? This person would likely have friends in the same job hunting pool and there has to have been many discussions (maybe over a beer or two) about job hunting strategies and proper job hunting etiquette. Ask your resident expert * if this is considered the norm by newly minted grads hoping to enter the workforce as a full-time employee. I'm guessing she will laugh and say no way!

* NOTE: What a fast 5 years!!!
emoticon to the soon-to-be graduate from grad school!
Go Minutemen!!! emoticon emoticon (a Minuteman on horseback?)

emoticon We are also celebrating with our soon-to-be graduate from grad school!
Go Terps!!! emoticon emoticon

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

Gail
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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,650
4/27/19 12:30 P

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That is chutzpadik, and I would never ever ever do that. Nor would I choose to hire someone who would do that, because they are going to be all about themselves and not be a team player. That's my take on that kind of behavior.

There are subtle ways to do it. Submit the application. Wait a few days and then send a note or call to ensure that everything was received in proper order - especially with an online process. Wait a week or two and call again to see if they need any other information. Wait another two weeks and then call back.

Actually, that's exactly what I did to get my job in St Thomas. Mailed in the application and transcripts, then called every 2 weeks to nicely ask if they needed more information, were they ready to interview, that I was still interested. Finally, about 2 months later, they connected me to the person doing the interviews, we spoke for about 30 minutes, and I was hired.

So while I believe in persistence, I also believe in not being all in your face aggressive about it!




"Dance as if no one is watching."


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4/27/19 9:59 A

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certainly as you are toingt to be working with him you need to know.
however, how easy is it to get a job in your field? i feel like kids arent being taught ettiquette for this type stuff. i also feel like he could be just trying to make himself stand out in a tough job environment? has he continued to try ad contact you? is he trying to show how inventive he is or is he obnoxious? If it was me, and i talked to him, i'd say "we have a process, please wait for them to get back to you, i cant talk to you till they have done their thing". If he pushes then, he's out of the running. if he says "thank you, i'll let the process do its thing" then maybe i'd let it go. "he's coachng today but i'm goit to ask my son who has just been applying for jobs this question. will let you know.

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
4/27/19 5:38 A

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I was given limited keys to the HR castle because the successful candidate will work in my office, under my direction. So I get email notifications of new applicatiions through the HR web site. So I recognized the name, and when the phone call came to us directly, my gut reaction was "geez, really? what gall...". It's a big swing-and-a-miss of a cultural misfit. Subordinate employees need to be taking direction, not planning palace coups.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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ECOAGE's Photo ECOAGE Posts: 12,664
4/27/19 12:48 A

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Wow! THAT is eager. I could understand calling to be sure there was no problem with the application ... but that call would go to HR.

There are reasons a company would choose to use HR and an application process, and trying to go-around the system should tell you something about this person's personality style, especially when under pressure. Is the available job high pressure? As anyone who has ever had a job knows, being able to do the job is only a part of the workday. What do you consider when interviewing someone? Among other abilities: social skills, time management, work habits, and traits like patience, plus abilities for decision-making and problem-solving. You have to get along with everyone else ... the other workers and, depending on the job, clients, suppliers, etc., etc. Which makes me want to ask what kind of job is available? Not sales but if it was sales you might want the kind of person who won't take no for an answer and won't be stopped by standard procedures. You might want one type of personality style for your accountant but be looking for a very different style for a research position. Will the person filling this position be out in the field as a representative of your company or all alone hard at work in a lab? All places have their own corporate culture with some offices being fast-paced and high-pressure and others not so much. You want to hire someone who will be a good fit for the position and everything that is expected to be successful in that job on a day-to-day basis.

I think I would write myself a note so I remember to link the name with these actions. I'd keep the same notes as I would for an interview. And I'd consider this to be the first phase of an interview process if HR sends this resume' along as a good candidate. But I would also trust my HR person to do the HR job. I'd tell any energetic callers that we appreciate the interest and the enthusiasm but we follow a process and the first step is filling in the application, the second step is allowing HR to review the application and make a decision based on HR's expertise.

If you are lucky, this might make the Energizer Bunny wannabe realize this wouldn't be a good fit because of not wanting any job working for a company that follows this protocol rather than a more spontaneous, go-get-em kind of environment with more flexibility.

It takes a long time to grow young. - P. Picasso

Gail
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4/26/19 10:21 P

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I have mixed feelings. In the space of 8 work hours my oldest was told she was being layed off of (from ONE of her many) jobs, my middle was told they were excited about her but went another way, and my youngest was offered a job he wanted at slightly more than what he was hoping for in compensation! So watching them, i get that an applicant can be exhuberant and want to say i'd be great for you and please dont keep us waiting forever. its tough to be looking, even if you have a job. so many people are looking. so i sorta get it. however, having worked for 40 years i know the wheels of employment offices move slowly and follow a procedure (if they are decent). so would i eliminate them? i doubt it but i'd probably ignore until time to start the process in normal time.

GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,721
4/26/19 10:07 P

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As someone who has recently (within the past 2 years or so) have job hunted (got my current position as a temp worker and teh agency paid a fee to the temp service to bring me on line), employers these days take their sweet time getting back to applicants. every thing is on line. Calling an employer may make you appear as desparate, especially to those under the age of 50 (dont trust any one under 50?????). I think waiting for a couple of weeks then sending an email or call stating your interest

BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,636
4/26/19 9:25 P

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So you apply for a job, on the company's web site. The job is at a branch office near you. You are highly qualified for the open position. Your salary demand is top-dollar, but you are very highly qualified. You apply via the internet as the company web site directed, but then you hear nothing.

Minutes tick by, then hours. You grow impatient; the job sounds perfect for you. Do you contact corporate HR (who ran the ad) or the local branch office? In either case, do you follow-up via email or telephone and how long is appropriate to wait before you do? A month? A week? Maybe a few days? And do you try and follow the employer's protocols (they cleartly want thinga funneled through their HR department) or do you contact the local branch office (where the opening is) directly?

Now what if I told you that the branch office received such a follow-up call from the eager-beaver applicant, a scant three hours after the application first landed on the HR web site site? Not a month, or a week, or even a day later. Three hours! And the phone call came not to HR but to the branch office, which was hard not to construe as a purposeful effort to sidestep our screening and selection process.

"Look at me! Look at me! I am the great me!!! Your search may as well stop before it starts, because I am the very best you will find. And I know it. I'm calling you to tell you..." Um, ugh. (Of course I took the Khan approach in Star Trek II "Let him eat static!" (voice mail).

Presumptiously too soon, regardless of qualifications? Disqualified? Don't even interview? Someone who will be impossible to work with... or do you appreciate this hyperdrive go-getterism? It's not a sales position if it matters.

Discuss.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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