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GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,373
4/4/19 6:48 A

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Hi Sherri and I remember when the Ethiopian Jews were airlifted

SUNNYCALIGIRL's Photo SUNNYCALIGIRL Posts: 14,743
4/3/19 8:46 P

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Hi Sherri!

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Allison
Destitutus ventis, remos adhibe.--Latin Proverb
"If the wind will not serve, take to the oars."


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4/3/19 12:07 A

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lol - my name is Sherri. Sometimes i remember to sign it but not usually. and dont know how to do a signature.

I remember the story of the ethopian jews (sadly called felasha's but thats not complimentary i understand). i was knd of tongue in cheek about why a minority would choose to be jewish. like i said,, i like the religion. i am tho getting tired of the criminals (madoff, cohen etc). and being looked down..no, having prejudice - i need to go to bed i cant even form a decent sentence. good night!


SUNNYCALIGIRL's Photo SUNNYCALIGIRL Posts: 14,743
3/14/19 11:30 A

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Allison
Destitutus ventis, remos adhibe.--Latin Proverb
"If the wind will not serve, take to the oars."


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,607
3/14/19 5:05 A

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I know SAK05261's real name. But it's a secret! Like Nu, she can choose to hide behind her online pseudonym as long as she likes. We all can. It's called Internet Pixie Dust.

But you know my name:

"Omar-Must-Go-2020"

Edited by: BOSS61 at: 3/14/2019 (11:51)
"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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SUNNYCALIGIRL's Photo SUNNYCALIGIRL Posts: 14,743
3/13/19 10:15 P

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I am responding to SAK05261--pardon me that I do not know your actual name.

I just want to point out that the State of Israel embraces and even rescued (airlifted) Ethiopians because genetic testing showed that they were indeed descended from Jews, could unquestionably from an Orthodox point of view claim to be Jews, and the theory is that they are the lost tribe. Descendants of a later diaspora than Moses' flight from Egypat, They are "black". It was called Operation Solomon--here is some Wikipedia info about it, in case you want to learn more en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat
ion_Solomo
n

I posted a blog ages ago now about it from I think an Isreali newspaper and perhaps also National Geographic. I just learned in finding that link that there was a similar one that airlifted Ethiopian Jews who had fled to Sudan called Operation Moses! This all happened in the 1990's.

Sammy Davis, Jr. I don't know why he made his choice. ANY sincere and studious convert is welcome. Marilyn Monroe, of all people, sincerely converted when she married Arthur Miller. Plenty of "bonafide" more "white" skinned Jews intermarry someone who is of darker skin and raise their kids to be Jewish.. Of ALL the many denominations of Judaism. That's right, we have denominations just like Christianity, only fewer. The Big Three are Orthodox and all it's permutations, Conservative, and Reform Judaism. There are others which are not as large.


African American Jewish children studying, Harlem, 1940.


PHEBESS has articulated my feelings for me much better than I ever could, thank you.

Edited by: SUNNYCALIGIRL at: 3/13/2019 (22:37)
Allison
Destitutus ventis, remos adhibe.--Latin Proverb
"If the wind will not serve, take to the oars."


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PHEBESS's Photo PHEBESS Posts: 44,322
3/11/19 12:58 A

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Wow. There is much in that article with which I agree, and much with which I disagree. As always. And some of the political comments are disingenuous, at best.

So yes, there is and always has been a very right wing group that is very anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. At the same time, there has always been a very right wing group that is very philo-Jewish and philo-Israel - especially the very Evangelical Christians. And some of these groups definitely color the opinions of their Senators and Congresspeople.

I think there are also many Jews whose attitude has always been "Israel right or wrong" - and this is to the detriment of how American Jews fit into this country. Because many people are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, and see Israel as the constant aggressor. (I know, this isn't true, and in my personal opinion both sides are equally at fault. But Israel is the established nation, and until there is an equal Palestinian nation, some people will always see these as the oppressed people, with Israel as the oppressor.)

I have always believed that we Jews who believe there should be a two state solution should be more vocal, so that people within the US understand that there is not one united Jewish view of Israel, and that many of us (as in Bernie Sanders) believe that while we have a spiritual connection with Israel, we also have a humanitarian connection with the Palestinian people.

The argument of that senator that old oppressions and discriminations should give way to people whose oppression and discrimination is more recent and thus more immediate is specious and ridiculous. Chronologically, the Holocaust is much more recent/immediate than slavery - does that make it more important? Should the US be dealing with anti-Semitism and ignoring prejudice against people of color?? (Obvious answer is no, that would be idiotic.)

There are two major things going on here - first, we are an invisible minority. To anyone of a visible minority (people of any ethnic heritage other than mainstream European), we look (on the whole) white. And thus it is believed that we benefit from white privilege, even though we know that half the time we don't. The second is that many (most?) non-Jews equate Jewish Americans with Israel - they don't understand that we are not Israeli citizens. (I've even been told to go back to Israel. As if I had come from there.) So to anyone who is not knowledgeable of being Jewish in America, we seem to fit in but have dual loyalties.

So. All that being said, I can understand Senator Omar's perceptions, wrong as I believe them to be. She is equating us with Israel. She is seeing us as white, as privileged, as having way more influence than we have. And while I understand the Democratic party's desire to address all hatreds simultaneously, yes, I also feel it dilutes the message regarding anti-Semitism that is on the rise in our country and in Europe.

Do I have any answers? No. I don't. I think we need a Palestinian homeland with a right of return in the Middle East. I think we need to understand Senator Omar's frustration with the perceived power of Jews in this country. I think we who do not support the politics of Israel and the oppression of Palestinians need to speak out. I think we also need to point out that not all comments about Israel's politics are immediately anti-Semitic.

But we also need to point out the comments (on the Republican side as well) that ARE anti-Semitic - and remember, the Semitic people includes the Arabs and Palestinians.

"Dance as if no one is watching."


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3/10/19 9:47 P

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is there a way to subscribe to comments here without commenting?

i admit to not understanding some of that article.

that said i love being jewish. i dislike services mostly. but the things i choose to embrace. i think israel is fabulous. and fascinating. we americans need israel much more than israel needs america (they need the american jews donations for sure). wish it was one kind of bigotry - not sure what that means.
and i find it strange when a minority of color chooses to be jewish - i mean based on what i beleive, i get why anyone would want to be but why would a black person make it that much harder on themselves? i guess thats not politically correct, so i'm sorry. but it confuses me.

GWYNANNE1's Photo GWYNANNE1 Posts: 3,373
3/10/19 6:11 P

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I live in Minneapolis. People seem to adore Illhan Omar. Why? I don't know. there are some Jews here defending her. I don't get it. Along with hearing here in Minneapolis "are you going to Jew them out of money???" here in the 2000'w. I am embarassed by her and have no sympathy for her

SUNNYCALIGIRL's Photo SUNNYCALIGIRL Posts: 14,743
3/10/19 4:27 P

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Thanks for printing this Mark. I am neither a philo Jew or an anti Jew, even though I am Jewish myself. Believe me, there are enough self-hating Jews and Jews who exaggerate their own importance. I don't want to visit Israel. As though i could visit anywhere with my medical condition--second stories and homes on the more foothill sides of town exasperate my balance problems. Air flight is questionable. I am a content as an arm chair traveler. But I don't want to visit Israel in person until violence between nations no longer exists. When will that be?

I would love an America where anti-Semitism was one bigotry among many. And disapproved of whole-heartedly by the majority. I think eventually things will even out to be just that, but the road there will be fraught with difficulties.

What is it now with immigrants wanting to push ideologies and hatred and not adopting a more encompassing "American" way now? What happened? Why do they come here wanting to reshape us as something other than a democracy, instead of becoming the best a democracy has to offer?

Allison
Destitutus ventis, remos adhibe.--Latin Proverb
"If the wind will not serve, take to the oars."


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 Posts: 6,607
3/10/19 3:17 P

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by Ross Douthat.

***

Like most places, America has always had potent strains of anti-Semitism — crude and polished, K.K.K. and country club. But unlike many places, we have always had important strains of philo-Semitism as well; there is a long American tradition, with both Protestant and Enlightenment roots, of really liking Judaism and the Jews.

And so the story of the Jews in post-World War II America is the story, not just of anti-Semitism’s marginalization, but of philo-Semitism’s triumph. Jewish Americans weren’t just integrated, like other ethnic and religious groups. They also attracted a particular sympathy and admiration, rooted in Holocaust remembrance, affection for Israel, and a distinctive pride in the scope of their success.

For American philo-Semites, the Jewish experience wasn’t just one minority experience among many, but a signal and elevated case. The outsize success of Jewish intellectuals and scientists and artists and businessmen and activists was an especially good thing, a unique proof of American exceptionalism — because ours was the one country where a people so long persecuted could not only survive but triumph. And attacks on Jewish success and influence, like attacks on the state of Israel, were treated as particularly dangerous, particularly un-American, because they threatened to undo this great achievement, and return the Jews to their historic state of constant threat and peril.

This history supplies one way to understand the stakes in the controversy over Ilhan Omar, the Muslim congresswoman who keeps using anti-Semitic clichés in her criticisms of the American-Israeli relationship. The part of the American left that’s defending her, or at least mitigating her offense and accusing her conservative critics of bad faith, doesn’t see itself as defending Jew-hatred, and since many of those defenders are Jewish — including the arguable front-runner for the Democratic nomination, Bernie Sanders — it’s reasonable to take them at their word.

But the defend-Omar project is a project that seeks to push us away from the age of philo-Semitism, the age in which both American Jews and the American-Israel relationship were considered special cases among the range of minority groups and foreign policy partnerships.

This is what the left seems to want in the Omar controversy, and what I suspect it will eventually get: a left-of-center politics that remembers the Holocaust as one great historical tragedy among many, that judges Israel primarily on its conservative and nationalist political orientation, rather than on its status as a Jewish sanctuary, and that regards the success of American Jews as a reason for them to join white Gentiles in check-your-privilege self-criticism, ceding moral authority to minority groups who are more immediately oppressed. (This last shift was helpfully distilled by James Clyburn, the Democratic House whip, who defended Omar last week by basically saying that the Holocaust was a long time ago and her personal experience as a refugee and Muslim immigrant was more immediate and relevant.)

The shifts here would not just be, as is sometimes suggested, a reaction to Israeli politics, to the right-wing Netanyahu government or the cruelties of occupation. If the occupation ended tomorrow, Israel would still have a nationalist and religious identity at odds with the left’s broadly post-nationalist and post-religious vision. Secularization would still be separating the left from any specifically Christian sense of guilt over the Holocaust — which was an important spur to postwar philo-Semitism. Many American Jews would still enjoy advantages that expose them to the left’s intersectional critiques, and the Orthodox Jewish population (growing apace relative to more secular and liberal forms of Judaism) would still have religious beliefs and practices that are the very opposite of woke.

Finally, a great deal of the new anti-Semitism — from the recent wave of hate crimes in New York City to the anti-Jewish violence befouling Europe — would still be coming from minority and immigrant communities that are seen as essential to left-of-center and especially radical-left politics going forward, making them more difficult than right-wing anti-Semitism for the left to full-throatedly condemn.

Of course right-wing anti-Semites haven’t gone away either — which is part of why anti-anti-Omar Democrats can tell themselves that by downgrading Jewish exceptionalism, trading a specific philo-Semitism for a general politics of all-bigotry-is-bad, they are asking liberal Jews to make a sacrifice that’s essential for the greater good of defeating the greater enemy, which is still the reactionary right.

Whether this argument works depends in part on what the post-Trump right ultimately becomes — whether there’s a way to marry nationalism and philo-Semitism, perhaps wooing Jewish voters rightward, or whether any form of right-wing populism inevitably brings anti-Semitism roaring back.

But it also depends on whether the assumptions of Omar’s left-wing defenders are justified — whether anti-Semitism can be contained if it’s treated as one form of bigotry among many, or whether the perverse resilience of Jew-hatred is such that cultures choose between philo-Semitism and anti-Semitism, with only a swift downward slope lying in between.

Edited by: BOSS61 at: 3/10/2019 (15:18)
"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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