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DREBENEZER's Photo DREBENEZER SparkPoints: (0)
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12/12/10 12:00 A

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Thanks for the insight folks. It was really helpful. I was also able to discuss it briefly with Coopsm during our 10 mile run today. Just have to trust my body. My runs for the month were already planned out so I am going to adjust it a little and do back to back days one time just to see how my body bounces back. Then in January the plan is to add in a 5K day each week to my current total.

Frank
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JOEKHUL's Photo JOEKHUL Posts: 1,802
12/11/10 11:48 P

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Agreed FasterMom!

Can't stress enough running the majority of your miles slow!!

Edited by: JOEKHUL at: 12/12/2010 (00:09)
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12/11/10 11:23 P

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You don't know you are ready until you try adding. I will say don't increase volume and intensity at the same time. Using Jack Daniels VDOT helped me increase volume well- most people do easy pace way too fast and then think that they are getting injured from the volume, when really they are getting injured from the cumulative intensity. (At a 21 min 5K I was running 9:00-9:45 easy runs)

Volume helps endurance and speed. At your current training regime, more than any specific speedwork or any workout, the thing that will help you the most is consistency and miles. I also would say from what you are doing now, you certainly can add a day or two. Start with just a few miles. Work a little more variation between daily runs and long runs. Consider paces and goals of workouts... though still, just some more running can give you lots of benefit for less stress than getting too caught up.

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JOEKHUL's Photo JOEKHUL Posts: 1,802
12/11/10 9:32 P

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Very interesting.

i am of a different school but that definitely looks like an solid plan of attack.

EDIT:

Went to find a quote. I know there are many different methods of attack and I am not saying that this is the 'correct' one. But here are a couple quotes that inspires me.

1st one
---------------
I think for a number of years Runner’s World had these articles that said, “Train for your best marathon on 60 mpw.” But any good marathoner I ever talked to that was consistent told me you have to run 100 mpw. With a very gifted 5K-10K runner, you might be able to structure a program on 80 mpw. My feeling is that you have to condition your body for the pounding of the road for 2+ hours. Yes, you have to run fast, but your body has to be able to take the pounding."
------------------

2nd
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"Do you realize it’s not really normal for a sub-3 hour marathoner to drop their PR by 22 minutes – especially in just 6 months? What do you attribute your improvement to?"

Volume. This was the one-word piece of advice I got on a training run last June, and I have just been racking up miles since then. It turns out that the six or seven months of 80 to 100+ mile weeks and running every day really pays off.
---------------------

Edited by: JOEKHUL at: 12/11/2010 (21:46)
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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
12/11/10 8:50 P

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Joe:
Right now, yes. I took 4-5 months off running to become a bike racer but with the new baby and winter, the cycling has cut back and I decided to start up running again, mainly because I can do it at lunch. And it stops me from getting fat. And seeing as I'm a multisport coach I really should do more than one sport...

The current plan is to build back to where I was in summer, which is roughly 28-30 mpw at a minimum (2x 30, 2x60 and 1x90 minute per week @ 9:50/mile). If anything this time I'm going to back off the pace a bit because cycling is still my preferred sport and I don't want those workouts to suffer.

Based on my preferred progression, I should hit that mark in about 10-12 weeks time. Once I get there, I'll make sure I'm solid and then build the 3 longer days up further. Remember, this is all EASY running, no sort of pace work anywhere. The St. Paddys day 5k is generally my cue to add speedwork for the early season multisport stuff.

Remember, I'm not like most folk who go race-to-race. I prefer to get a decent training block in first. And by decent, I mean longer than 12-16 weeks...

In God we trust, all others bring data.
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If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
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Specificity, specificity, specificity.
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JOEKHUL's Photo JOEKHUL Posts: 1,802
12/11/10 7:54 P

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Adrian, correct me if I am wrong but you run 8 miles a week total? (1.6 mi/day * 5 days a week).

Not saying there is anythiing wrong with this, but I know you like the half-marathons and 10k's so that number seems low to me.

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BRONTEMOM's Photo BRONTEMOM Posts: 4,615
12/11/10 12:32 P

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I would love to be running 3x/week, but my work schedule isn't allowing it right now. Currently, I am cross training 2-3 days a week and keeping up my weekend long runs. I think this will keep me in good shape for my next half in March.

I think that you have to listen to your body and if you have the time and your body doesn't object, add an extra day of running to your schedule.

Good luck!

Edited by: BRONTEMOM at: 12/11/2010 (12:33)
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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
12/11/10 11:44 A

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DREBENEZER:
Simple answers:

1) You don't know until you try. How to do it is listed below.

2) Run more miles. Running more miles is critical for ~90% of runners on here. The easiest way to run more miles is to run MORE OFTEN.

Long winded answers:

I run 5-6x a week, having made the transition from 3x a week last year. LOVE it. It's the only way to get more miles which is key for 10k and up.

The trick to transitioning to more days is to add on short, EASY runs. What I would do is take all the miles that you have run THIS YEAR, divide them by the number of weeks that you've been running (to get miles per week) and then divide that number by 5.

That is how many miles you should run PER DAY. Yes, it'll look pathetic. Right now I'm running 20 minutes (~1.6 miles) a day. DO NOT add miles until 5x a week feels straightforward.

The other thing to get is PACE. Google McMillan pace calculator) and plug in your most recent 5k time. It'll spit out your paces. Print out this page, highlight the recovery and long run paces and STICK TO THEM! Yes, they will seem absurdly slow. Run them at that pace. Use a TM if necessary to slow down.

If you want real #s, I run a (roughly) 25:00 5k. This gives me an easy run pace of 6:30-7:00/k (~10:30-11 minute mile). Right now I do ALL my runs at that pace and it's more towards the 11 minute mark, than the 10:30.

You want to get off the treadmill/finish the run KNOWING you can do exactly the same run the next day. Why? Because you have to.

Stick to this strategy and you'll be ready.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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SHINIGAN's Photo SHINIGAN Posts: 315
12/11/10 10:42 A

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To add to what ALL4THEMUTTS said, you can also add some cross training if you want/need more than 3 days of running. Do a interval training DVD that has a lot of squat type movements and gets your heart rate up. That's probably the easiest thing to do, but if you have access to a gym maybe a stair stepper, elliptical, or stationary bike for 20-40 minutes, so you are still working on your "wind", endurance, etc but somewhat resting from running.

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ALL4THEMUTTS's Photo ALL4THEMUTTS SparkPoints: (0)
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12/11/10 10:05 A

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Just playing devils advocate here...
No one says you have to run more than 3 times a week.

I only run 3 days a week, maybe 4 if I am feeling froggy. But most often 3 is as much as my schedule can do, and sometimes only 2!

If you run a training plan that calls for 5 days, just run the runs in order of the plan, but on the days YOU choose. Granted that will make a 12 week plan more like 16 weeks or so, so essentially, just count the number of runs in the schedule, count the number of days you plan to run and you will know how long the schedule will take you.

Some folks here may disagree. This is what works for me though.

Laura
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MRS_LOOMIS's Photo MRS_LOOMIS Posts: 1,044
12/11/10 9:07 A

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Along with listening to your body, avoid going crazy with additional mileage. Add a 30 minute jog on the two new days---and then build from there.

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. ~Colossians 3:23-24

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COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/11/10 8:27 A

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Dreb--you are def ready...how many mile are you doing now/week.....with that plan how many will you be doing?? Will it be close to the same just spread out over more days?? You have done fantastic since starting this journey...want to hear about this plan today on our 10....

Edited by: COOPSM at: 12/11/2010 (08:27)
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RHYNIC's Photo RHYNIC Posts: 19,646
12/11/10 6:49 A

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You seem to have been running for a while with no issue. I saw go for it. you will find out quick enough if it doesn't work for you.

gail

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VIRGINIAGRETA's Photo VIRGINIAGRETA SparkPoints: (0)
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12/11/10 5:13 A

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Joekuhl, that advice sounds spot on. I think listening to your body is always the best answer. I know mine will sometimes lightly protest and I will ignore it and push through. But when it's all out begging for mercy, I give it a rest.





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JOEKHUL's Photo JOEKHUL Posts: 1,802
12/11/10 1:09 A

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What is it exactly that tells you, that you are not ready for more days?

Are you dead tired on your off days?

If so, then just dial the effort back on one of your 6.5 milers. Maybe you are pushing the pace a little bit. Instead of going moderate, go easy, and then the next day add another run at an easy pace and see how you do with that.

If you are not dead tired currently, and nothing else is telling you "You can't!" run another day right now, then give it a try (easy run of course) and see how you feel.

Running more miles is always about running easier paces. Your body can handle easy running / walking every day if you wanted.



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DREBENEZER's Photo DREBENEZER SparkPoints: (0)
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12/10/10 11:54 P

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I am starting to think about how to train after the holidays. I am currently reviewing Hal Higdon's winter training regimen. He is calling for running five days a week. I started a C25K program in March and have been comfortably running at least 5K three days a week since June. My current training consists of two 6 to 6.5 mile and one 8 to 10 mile run a week. I've been running a couple of races here and there in place of one of the runs here and there. Just an FYI. I live just south of Buffalo - contrary to rumors, it snows now and then - a little bit. LOL.

My questions:

1. How will I know when my body is ready to run more than three days a week?

2. What should I be looking to do to improve? My goal, at this time, is not speed. My intent is to continue running the 5Ks I ran last year but add in some 10Ks and a few HMs in 2011.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edited by: DREBENEZER at: 12/10/2010 (23:55)
Frank
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