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FLOWERDALEJEWEL's Photo FLOWERDALEJEWEL Posts: 40,155
3/11/15 5:31 A

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If it is food induced, I'd agree with Birgit and turf the manufactured foods. That being said there are some good 'grain free' foods here in Australia, I can't speak for the US.

If you ensure that the food you make is complete in the vitamins and minerals, protein etc you should eliminate a food borne problem hopefully

Edited by: FLOWERDALEJEWEL at: 3/11/2015 (05:38)
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KATHYSCOLLIES's Photo KATHYSCOLLIES Posts: 32,095
3/11/15 12:29 A

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Sorry Jo, I don't have any experience with this sort of problem. I wish I could offer some kind of "magic" solution for Harley and for you as well.
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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 14,812
3/10/15 1:36 P

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I don't have any ideas of what is going on with Harley (never had the situation come up), but since you said he washes the floor a lot and you have to wash it all the time, I wondered what you are using to wash it with. I would make sure that it is washed with something like vinegar or something natural like that so that it won't cause him any problems there, too. (I know you probably are already doing it that way)

I hope that you can find the problem and get things straightened out. Birgit's suggestion of homemade food might help. I know that I had to do that with Blue because anything else caused him problems. Later a friend started feeding him grain free (she was fostering at the time for me) and we found he could eat that without problems so that might be of help, too, but the homemade would give liquid between his long drinks and it might be absorbed better.



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
3/10/15 12:18 P

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Don't mean to high-jack this thread but wanted to follow up on the Beneful and other not so Beneficial dog foods. Here is the description by the company:
www.beneful.com/products/dry
-dog-food/
original

It says "High quality protein including real beef" and "Wholesome grains for energy" and "Includes accents of vitamin-rich vegetables".

Then you look at the ingredient list:
Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, rice flour, beef, soy flour, meat and bone meal, propylene glycol, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, animal digest, sorbic acid (a preservative), mono and dicalcium phosphate, dried spinach, dried peas, dried carrots, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, Red 40, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, Blue 2, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.

The first ingredient is corn, a GMO crop that is bred for Round-up resistance so you can be sure there is lots of Roundup in the food. The second ingredient is chicken-by-product meal. That's all the parts of the chicken that are not muscle meat, which would not be a problem for dogs, except this is from factory-farmed chickens that ate - you guessed it - GMO corn and soy. Then follows whole-wheat flour, which contains lots of gluten and causes sensitivities in large numbers of dogs. It is also a crop sprayed very heavily with herbicides anti fungicides. Next comes animal fat which could be from any source, including recycled restaurant grease. Animals fat stores hormones and also toxins when from factory-farmed animals. Then comes rice flour, more carbohydrates. Finally, in place number 7, comes beef. We can be relatively sure that there is only very little beef in this food but mostly carbohydrates, which dogs do not need AT ALL in their diet. Then we get some preservatives, propylene glycol (have you read that name on an anti-freeze bottle?), sugar, artificial coloring (red, yellow and blue) and some vitamins. There don't seem to be a lot of vegetables in this product, they are listed below the calcium, (and if there were the nutrients would be cooked out anyhow) so that's why they have to say "accents of vegetables". I assume they mean the colorful pieces in the food.

But buyer beware, this is only one of hundreds of very poor quality processed dog foods. You may as well feed our dogs Twinkies only.
We need to read the label, not just once, but regularly. If we can't afford high quality dog food we can home-prepare our dog's food, some rice and some eggs and a little meat is still better than this crap.

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 3/10/2015 (12:21)
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IMMORTALDEBRA's Photo IMMORTALDEBRA SparkPoints: (26,110)
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3/10/15 8:44 A

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There is currently a question about Beneful dog food. Some dogs are supposedly developing kidney and liver problems from eating Beneful kibble. It is actually killing dogs. I'm not sure if this has been scientifically proven, but there is a lawsuit started, and 1000's of people are complaining about kidney and liver illnesses in their dogs from eating this food.

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FLOWERDALEJEWEL's Photo FLOWERDALEJEWEL Posts: 40,155
3/10/15 6:14 A

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My little Maggs, while she was alive, was like this. She was diagnosed with high blood pressure that was putting strain on her kidneys, but did not have kidney disease.

Have you had the blood pressure tested.

Maggs had, what I used to call, a pee bag the size of an elephant and could pee on every blade of grass on her walks (she was only a little Aussie terrier)

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,869
3/9/15 11:51 P

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I have a couple of thoughts. Assuming that kidney disease and diabetes have been ruled out and urinary tract infection and urinary stones have been ruled out by the vet it is possible to have subclinical symptoms of cushings.
I know that in people it is often possible to see significant improvements by switching to a paleo-type and ketogenic (very low-carb) diet, which would be even more appropriate for dogs as they do not require any carbohydrate in their diet.

Another possibility would be a neurological problem that keeps your dog from realizing that his bladder is full. If that is the case it would help to put urinating on cue using reward-based training.

It is also possible that there is pain with urination which could have many causes, including a tumor (although the chance is fairly low) that affects the urethra and/or bladder.
You could try some pain meds (Rimadyl or another NSAID) for a few days to see if there is improvement.
Hope this helps,
Birgit

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GODINMYHEART's Photo GODINMYHEART Posts: 1,735
3/9/15 9:58 P

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no experience here, but I'd like to know if you get any answers. Best of luck!

KATTY- URUGUAY, SOUTH AMERICA

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CHEBBA's Photo CHEBBA Posts: 803
3/9/15 8:04 P

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We have always had dogs, Old English Sheepdogs (pet and show dogs alike) and equally precious mutts. I am extremely experienced in all aspects of dogdom and dog health, but we have something which is stumping us. So, as there is always something new to learn, I'm asking if anyone reading this has any ideas.

We have 3 rescue dogs - 2 OES and a front-leg amputee, GSD x Rotti. They are our 13th, 14th and 15th dogs! One of the OES, a 6yr old male called Harley, has an odd urine issue. He doesn't drink very often, maybe just two or three times daily, but when he does, he drinks a whole bowl full all by himself! The lapping noise goes on forever! Now, I would expect a lot of that to be absorbed into his system, as he doesn't drink very frequently and his body would need it - but BOY!, does he still produce a LOT of wee! When he pees, he does so for a good 1-1/12 minutes and produces seriously huge amounts, much more than any dogs we've ever had - and I can assure you, we've experienced just about the whole content of the veterinary manuals! He can barely make it through the night - if we leave the dogs in the kitchen, we have to clean floods off the floor when we get up, so to avoid this, and for Harley's sake and comfort, one of us has to set the alarm in order to get up at around 3am, to let him out. If the dogs stay in the bedroom, he either asks to go out at around that time, or he hurtles downstairs at 7am, seconds ahead of me, and he usually can't make it outside and just stands there, eyes almost crossed in relief, gushing and flooding just inside the kitchen door, poor boy. We've had his urine checked at the vets - nothing untoward showing and the vet thinks Harley currently seems robust and healthy, that it's his idiosyncrasy. He's a wonderful vet and we are, with him, keeping an eye on things in case of new symptoms.

I've tried soaking his food and feeding it earlier, at around 4pm - it doesn't make any difference. He and the other OES Beryl are walked 3-5miles daily, usually in the afternoons, and the two of them come right indoors and start playing madly, driving us nuts! We've tried feeding the dogs in the mornings, but if we have to go out during the day, yup - we come home to floods in the kitchen. Harley gets upset, and constantly cleaning the floor is, for us, admittedly tedious. (Don't worry - we adore our dogs, he's going NOWHERE! I'd clean floors forever rather than part with him!) We don't, of course, tell him off as he really can't hold that amount of pee, it's not him being lazy or naughty - oh, and we DO let him out frequently, so it's not that we are depriving him of opportunity. I'm now trying splitting his meals, but in all honesty I don't anticipate a change in this situation; but it's worth a try.

I'm harbouring thoughts of Cushings, but at this stage the vet has nothing to support my instincts. We once had an old rescue spaniel with Cushings, (oh I loved that poor old boy, he was 13 when we got him from a horrid person in the village, where he was kept outside in a filthy old crate all year around - he was in a terrible state, mange, bald patches and Cushings; the treatment was costing us 6 a day and that was 20 years ago! We gave him a year of happiness and a lot of love. He introduced us to the joy of spaniels and we would love to have another Welshie some time.). Anyway, this isn't yet showing the same way, although deep inside it's the thing I'm thinking about. Visually, Harley is fine too - a great weight, very fit, nothing untoward.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this? Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

TIA

Jo

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