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TDMABRY's Photo TDMABRY SparkPoints: (11,090)
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6/8/08 3:25 P

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I think we all agree that as long as we are working with girls we will be dealing with cliques. The thing is how we choose to deal with them.

I am so glad things went well talking to your leader. I hope both of you can figure out a way to intervene with the girls before too many feelings or any get hurt.


Tammie

If satan can't make you sin he will make you busy.

What we dwell on is what we become.
Dwell on the positive.

Who I am really keeps surprising me.

The one who leads the orchestra must turn her back to the crowd.


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CRYSTALWOLF's Photo CRYSTALWOLF SparkPoints: (47,665)
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6/7/08 11:59 P

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I am glad that your leader is finding a way to deal with this situation. I am from a small town, and things can get really cliquey here too. We have 2 elementary schools (public and catholic) and that makes matters worse. I have actually had 2 girls leave my troop to join the troop of all catholic girls, although their mom's didn't actually say that was why. I think it's kind of a natural thing for girls to bunch up together, especially in the tween years when things are changing so much.

We have a small troop, but 4 of my girls have been together for at least 4 years. When we have new girls, I assign a girl the same age (generally the most bossy one at the time) to "mentor" her - help her with her materials, sit next to her in case she has questions, that kind of thing. It gives them a sense of responsibility and removes them from the clique mentality.



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HSAGE1212's Photo HSAGE1212 Posts: 4,633
6/7/08 10:53 A

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Just to let you all know the email I sent was received nicely. Are leader was already thinking of ways to discourage these clicks. She was also glad that I had talked about my concerns with her. So all went well. Thank You.

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VELMOOSE's Photo VELMOOSE Posts: 696
6/7/08 10:47 A

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Ultimately, the limit of girls in a troop is dictated by the number of adults and the rules in Safety Wise. 2 Adults is fine for a group of 24 Juniors or Cadettes but not for Brownies or Daisies. We had to let a leader go a few years ago because she was unwilling to let new girls into her troop. She could have taken in 6 new girls but she only wanted to have her daughter and her friends. I had girls who wanted to be in a troop but couldn't get in and I didn't have adults willing to take on a new troop. It was awful and I'm still trying to build things back up in that area.

Tammy (Vermont)

Oh, yes I CAN!


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CARROLLKR's Photo CARROLLKR SparkPoints: (87,762)
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6/5/08 12:27 P

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It is crazy that we turn them away-I agree. Get them in and keep them in.

If you got a traffic ticket would you break every traffic law the rest of the day? Then why toss the whole day over a slice of pizza? ~Indygirl

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ROBININVEGAS's Photo ROBININVEGAS Posts: 3,065
6/5/08 11:36 A

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It is amazing to me that other troops get away with turning away girls, in 5 years as a leader we have never ever said no to a girl needing placement, yet a lot of times I will hear a parent say we were on a waiting list for a year, what is that about?
I also had problems (still do) with our council wishing to divide my troop up as we have a multi-level troop and at one time had 35 girls, but there was 6 committed leaders and parent envolvement so I have fought council and any other leader that says it should be divided, they were successful once to divide the troop up when I was new and did not know better, but I will not ever let that happen again, at least as long as I am the leader. Clicks are difficult and they are starting as young as daisy level now, the cadettes I feel are worse, it just comes down to being very creative, seating, outings, activities and mostly communicative. You are right in that Girl Scouting should be the exception rather than the norm, we should be setting the example for the rest of society by saying we all fit in we will all be accepted period.


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I am and will always be... a work in progress.

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TDMABRY's Photo TDMABRY SparkPoints: (11,090)
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6/3/08 10:22 P

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I wish you the very best and I don't mind at all. I am taking a grad class right now and the entire topic is about social networking and just basically the different avenues of on-line relationships. I have really had to look at "who I am" (deep I know!) on Spark people compared to "real life" and I really am who I am. That can sound good, but is also means you get my straight forward opinions on things. Hope it does you some good though. :)


Tammie

If satan can't make you sin he will make you busy.

What we dwell on is what we become.
Dwell on the positive.

Who I am really keeps surprising me.

The one who leads the orchestra must turn her back to the crowd.


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STEVES_GIRL's Photo STEVES_GIRL SparkPoints: (0)
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6/3/08 12:14 P

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Not a problem, glad I could be of some help!

Crystal B



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HSAGE1212's Photo HSAGE1212 Posts: 4,633
6/3/08 11:59 A

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CMB326 and TDMABRY,

I wrote a letter to our leader. I hope you don't mind but I put in the part you wrote:

"My daughters troop is working on this issue too, trying to keep cliques from forming in the first place. They do it by changing the patrols and doing random picks to figure out who is in what patrol. Also for all field trips they draw names out of a hat to see who goes in what car. That way all the girls get to know each other. I know that certain girls get along better with certain girls, but this way they all have to interact with each other and get to know each other. I know you can't force any of them to become best friends with each other, but it is nice to just be friendly"

"That being said - as a teacher and mentor (in addition to being a Girl Scout leader) I am HUGE on straight forward conversation with the girls. I really hope you and/or your leader will sit them down and explain cliques to them and what they are about. Explain that they may not SEEM bad, but anytime somebody feels left out or not welcome it is a negative thing. It is part of life, but should NEVER be a part of Girl Scouts. I get upset with my girls if they ask a certain girl to sit by them in our friendship circle because we don't all have to be friends at school, but we do in Scouting! We are always kind to each other outside of our meetings, but we don't have to sit by each other. Occasionally we ask them to sit next to someone they don't have class with or play with on the playground. THAT is the point of Girl Scouts. Otherwise you just have a group of girls hanging out together which doesn't make them special like scouting should."

I didn't use your names and she doesn't know about Sparkpeople. I wrote a friendly note and I like what you all said. So hopefully this will help. I will let you know what went on. I felt I had to write her or it would always be on my heart and its hard for me to live like that. I thought you had some good ideas. I hope a didn't over step the line. Thanks for all your help. You all can still post on this I always like to here what you have to say.


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TDMABRY's Photo TDMABRY SparkPoints: (11,090)
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6/3/08 11:40 A

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I guess my definition of being mean to others is different. I do know what you mean that they aren't directly picking on someone, but to leave others out or to just not pay any attention to someone can be just as damaging.

Is it not against overall Girl Scout policy to turn girls away? I have a feeling no matter what the reason it is "illegal" according to Girl Scouting. We have had a couple of other leaders encourage us to break our troop into 2 troops since we are at 24. As a classroom teacher this baffles my mind. I am alone with 20 all day every day so to have 24 with a co-leader is a dream to me. We have informed our council that if they think it is best to divide they can, but we will not be leaders. Who would be with which troop? How would that be decided? One troop does this, the other does that. We have specifically said that girls are cliquey enough without Girl Scouts helping them out. That is just our view. Once we explained our views and they see our girls and parents keep coming back every year they realize we have it under control.

Tammie

If satan can't make you sin he will make you busy.

What we dwell on is what we become.
Dwell on the positive.

Who I am really keeps surprising me.

The one who leads the orchestra must turn her back to the crowd.


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STEVES_GIRL's Photo STEVES_GIRL SparkPoints: (0)
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6/3/08 10:59 A

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My daughters troop is working on this issue too, trying to keep cliques from forming in the first place. They do it by changing the patrols and doing random picks to figure out who is in what patrol. Also for all field trips they draw names out of a hat to see who goes in what car. That way all the girls get to know each other. I know that certain girls get along better with certain girls, but this way they all have to interact with each other and get to know each other. I know you can't force any of them to become best friends with each other, but it is nice to just be friendly.

Our troop is big (22 girls) and the only girls I've sen be cliquey are the ones whose moms are the same way. They are also the moms I had problems with at cookie time (surprise!)

I can understand not taking anymore girls cause you've hit your personal limit on how many you can handle, but to pick and choose who can be let it, your setting a bad example for the girls. Just my thoughts.

Girl scouts is meant to be for ALL girls (my daughter is special needs,and there are a few other special needs in her troop) which is something I love about girl scouts.

Crystal B



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HSAGE1212's Photo HSAGE1212 Posts: 4,633
6/3/08 10:28 A

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When I asked her this question about others joining the troop I never named anyone in particular. I just wanted to know if she wanted more girls in the troop. That's all I wanted to know from her. If she would of said yes their was a few in my mind I would of asked. No one was turned away that I know of. I am afraid that this click is going to become more clicky than it already is. We had one girl quit already. Their was no reason given why she quit. But I kind of wanting to know why. I wouldn't of wanted her to feel outed or anything. I just need help keeping the click from forming anymore. We have been together for five years. Our daughters are starting Cadet's. I do notice the difference between my son's Boy Scout troop than the Girl Scout troop. The boys all come and they hang out. The girls cling to their particular group and I see some that are not particularly pulled into the group. No one is mean to anyone. But you can see the outing of particular people. This is hard to explain. So hopefully you will get my meaning.

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DIPSMOM's Photo DIPSMOM Posts: 4,931
6/3/08 10:08 A

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My daughter is particularly close to 2 of the Brownies in my troop (they were also in her class). What I tried to do was sit the girls in the order of arrival. This way they are sitting next to a different 'friend' each meeting. It seemed to have worked. emoticon

I want to get to a healthy weight and stay there forever. I don't have to make huge changes all at once, just small ones consistently.


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TDMABRY's Photo TDMABRY SparkPoints: (11,090)
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6/3/08 9:55 A

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I am shocked! My co-leader and I joke all the time about not wanting certain girls BECAUSE OF THEIR MOMS in our troop, but never never never have we or we would turn down a girl. Oh we may want to, but that isn't even an option. Other grade levels in our town (we have a troop for each grade) don't advertise each year for registration like we do (every girl gets a letter every year to join if they wish) so their numbers stay low, but we are proud of our 24!

That being said - as a teacher and mentor (in addition to being a Girl Scout leader) I am HUGE on straight forward conversation with the girls. I really hope you and/or your leader will sit them down and explain cliques to them and what they are about. Explain that they may not SEEM bad, but anytime somebody feels left out or not welcome it is a negative thing. It is part of life, but should NEVER be a part of Girl Scouts. I get upset with my girls if they ask a certain girl to sit by them in our friendship circle because we don't all have to be friends at school, but we do in Scouting! We are always kind to each other outside of our meetings, but we don't have to sit by each other. Occasionally we ask them to sit next to someone they don't have class with or play with on the playground. THAT is the point of Girl Scouts. Otherwise you just have a group of girls hanging out together which doesn't make them special like scouting should.

Huh. :) Struck a nerve I guess. :)



Tammie

If satan can't make you sin he will make you busy.

What we dwell on is what we become.
Dwell on the positive.

Who I am really keeps surprising me.

The one who leads the orchestra must turn her back to the crowd.


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CARROLLKR's Photo CARROLLKR SparkPoints: (87,762)
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6/3/08 9:48 A

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Click or no click, she should never turn girls away from Girl Scouts. When I first moved to this town, I was told there was a troop the same age as my daughter, but they've been together since first grade and they won't accept new girls. That gives GS a bad name. We shouldn't pick and choose who will be in our troop. Every girl, every where. Make new friends, but keep the old. We always take new girls. Our troop is from three different schools and no one cares. They have GS in common.

I guess the ultimate question is, are they living the GS law? Do they enjoy it? Are they learning? Will a new girl benefit? Will they treat a new girl right? Will the leader accept other new girls down the road that may not be in the "click"? If the answers are all yes, then I guess it's not so bad. If there are no's then there is a problem.

Maybe try and plan some meetings with other troops the same age. Get them to play get to know each other games. Part of GS is making new friends.

If you got a traffic ticket would you break every traffic law the rest of the day? Then why toss the whole day over a slice of pizza? ~Indygirl

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HSAGE1212's Photo HSAGE1212 Posts: 4,633
6/3/08 9:32 A

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Personally I don't think Clicks are mean. They can be mean, but the word click doesn't meen mean. But I do believe it is where girls group together and others might feel like a outsider, because of this. Am I right in my definition? I feel that this has happened in our troop. I am not the leader I only help in our troop. But this is the one thing our leader said she didn't want happening five years ago. But now I see it has happened. When I mentioned it. I could see a look on my leader's face like she either didn't want to believe it or what was I saying. The leader and I are friends and have shared not only Girl Scout moments together, but also Boy Scout moments together. We have shared food and quarters on different events. I want her to understand what I am saying and maybe we can do something to make it different. She asked me if another girl could join the troop after I had asked if she wanted more people to join the troop and she told me no. Now I know when this girl joins it will even become more of click with these girls. So what do you think I should do?

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