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4/25/14 9:21 P

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There is definitely less muscle damage at slower paces, especially if you are using walk breaks. If the runs are longer than what you have previously run, you may still get a little sore right afterwards, but you should recover relatively quickly. Once you have built up the distance, a long run at training pace will leave you tired but not really sore, especially if you use a foam roller.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/25/14 6:04 P

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Do you have less DOMS when running the long runs at a slower training pace?

I still haven't found a time that works for my husband to time me for a new MM. That's okay though because I've been doing shorter runs - I had to baby a sore ankle last week and the early part of this week. I injured my Achilles years ago and it flared up after a tough strength training class last week.

It seems to have healed up nicely (unless today's 6 mile run makes it hurt tomorrow) so I'm hoping he can time me next week. If not, I'll have to try to do it myself with my Garmin.

First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


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DRADDIE's Photo DRADDIE SparkPoints: (56,255)
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4/17/14 3:50 P

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Catherine- thanks for that answer! I needed that reminder so I can keep my long runs in check! Another reason why I like this Galloway board! I wish more races had Galloway pace groups to help keep me in place on race days too!

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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4/17/14 3:42 P

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About Karlie's question, "HOWEVER- I still wonder how running slower mentally prepares us for being able to go 1-2 minutes faster on actual race day."

It does so by making your body physically able to perform. That's what training is all about. Yes, there is a mental component to running, but it is the icing on the cake. It can't make up for not having enough cake.

Training is not about teaching your brain how to force your body to run faster. It is about making your body capable of running the distance or the pace. That means growing muscles and blood vessels, strengthening joints and ligaments, getting physically better at clearing waste products in the blood stream, developing more blood volume and a stronger pump, to just mention a few things. A lot of these adaptations take place at lower speeds. Being unable to recover between runs certainly slows this process down. Especially if you are exhausted our injured.

You will taper before the race, so on race day your body will be fresh and capable of doing its best. Part of what you should do during training is to get to know your body well so that you can pace a smart race, the one your body is ready for, not the one you wish it were ready for.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/17/2014 (15:44)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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SEABREEZE65's Photo SEABREEZE65 Posts: 11,207
4/17/14 7:29 A

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I read an article recently about the fear of being last in a race. It surprised my that even elite athletes worry about this. For example.... Olympic qualifiers fear being last - and they are very fast.

The very first race I was in..... the race directors had voluntary last place finishers so that none of the actual runners would be last.

Being slow or fast is a state of mind. Comparatively I am slow. Comparatively in my age group I am average. Still I am a runner whether slow or fast.

"It's not how old you are, it's how you are old."

"I am still learning." Michelangelo

"You aren't old until age becomes your excuse." Joe Friel




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4/17/14 2:24 A

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Those sounds like good goals. I don't think you need to worry about being last. Do you also want to run more than one HM, i.e.this race will be the first, not the only?

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/17/14 1:42 A

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Thank you for helping me see it from a different angle. I suppose my goals for training for the half are to enjoy it, be prepared for the race, and avoid injury.

My goals for the race are to finish, to finish with a smile, and not to be the very last one! There are people walking the entire race, so I'm hoping that not being last is a reasonable goal.

First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


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4/17/14 12:11 A

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No need to apologize. I didn't take it that way. I'm just trying to get you to think a little out of the box about what it really means to be goal oriented.

Being "goal-oriented" is only as useful as the goal. So ask yourself what goal are you trying to meet by treating every training run as if it were a race and why is that a good goal to have.

Real runners run at all types of paces. Anyone who tells you that a fast pace defines a runner is speaking from ignorance or insecurity. Don't listen to them.
emoticon

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/17/2014 (00:49)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/17/14 12:02 A

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I am so sorry -- I did not mean to imply that I think less of others for their training paces. I say things about myself that I would never think of anyone else! I guess I am just embarrassed because someone told me that "real" runners go faster than I do.

First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


 current weight: 7.2  over
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4/16/14 10:58 P

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Do you think that running at designated training paces means that I am not goal oriented? Far from it. Every run I do in training has a specific goal directly tied to my race goals. I'm not going to undermine my race goals by treating every training run as a race. I trust my training plans.


Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/17/2014 (00:07)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/16/14 4:59 P

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I hadn't asked myself that question. I love running. I guess I want to be fast because Spark's calculators indicate higher calorie burn for faster running. I'm also goal-oriented like you, DRADDIE.

I am not in any pain while running but I will admit that my knees don't feel great the evening after a long run at my current pace.

Edited by: RAVELGIRLY at: 4/16/2014 (17:03)
First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


 current weight: 7.2  over
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DRADDIE's Photo DRADDIE SparkPoints: (56,255)
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4/16/14 4:56 P

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I have had to work hard on slowing down the long runs. I get that little voice. When a long run is going to take four hours, getting done sooner means less time my hubby is getting grumbly about watching the kids without me. Additionally, the 'goal oriented' voice in me wants to get as good of time as possible, even if it's not a race!

However, slowing things down for my last 16 mile run made the recovery easy. I had no discomfort whatsoever and makes it easier for me to stick to the training plan. Which is good since I have to change it up and do an 18 mile this weekend, I plan on slowing it down a bit more. (Hoping a friend can watch the kids on Friday so I can do it then and not get hubby guilt - he'll be glad when these long distances are over!)

So I echo your sentiment for wanting to be faster- but definitely raise the joy of going slower.

HOWEVER- I still wonder how running slower mentally prepares us for being able to go 1-2 minutes faster on actual race day . . :D

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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4/16/14 3:39 P

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Why does that little voice want you to be done sooner? Do you not enjoy running? Slowing down can actually making running more fun -- more endorphins than pain.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/16/2014 (15:40)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/16/14 2:42 P

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My 9 mile run was at 10:30/mi average pace. The last couple of miles felt really hard, so I know I was going a bit too fast.,

You raise a good point - I think it's time to run another MM and see what time I get.

So the upshot is that if I continue to run long runs faster than recommended, I'm risking injury. Well, I don't want that! So I have to figure out a way to drown out the voice that tells me I'd be done faster if I run faster! I certainly don't want to risk injury - I have fibromyalgia so small injuries are a big deal.

I hadn't heard of Gymboss before. Sounds useful!

Thanks for the helpful replies!

First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


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SEABREEZE65's Photo SEABREEZE65 Posts: 11,207
4/16/14 8:44 A

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Hi....

Why run slower for long runs? There is a lot of science behind running long runs slower than race pace. The purpose - there are many reasons. Here are a few...

To build endurance without risking injury: the ability to cover the distance. Running faster on long runs increases one's risk of injury. If you want to run for years and years to come (until you are 100) that staying injury free is a great goal - more important than any one race.

To develop a more efficient fat-burning metabolism: The faster a person runs the more carbohydrates are burned. Running slower taps into more fat burning. Many longer distance running coaches try to have runners run to increase their efficiency at burning fat rather than carbs. If this is successful a person can run much further and gradually increase their pace while utilizing fat stores rather than carbs. We have a very limited amount of energy from carbs and a huge amount of energy from fat - stored in the body.

To recover quickly: The slower the training run the faster once recovers so that other runs can be completed successfully. The faster the long run - the longer the recovery time. It is on the shorter runs that you can practice a faster pace.

GYMBOSS: For intervals I use a Gymboss. Many Galloway runners use this instead of the interval timer on their Garmin's.

Edited by: SEABREEZE65 at: 4/16/2014 (08:47)
"It's not how old you are, it's how you are old."

"I am still learning." Michelangelo

"You aren't old until age becomes your excuse." Joe Friel




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4/16/14 2:12 A

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Hi Ravelgirly,

To answer your last question first, the recommended training pace is for long runs. Jeff says you can run the shorter runs faster if you can handle it.

Now as to why the slower paces. Since you say that your MM predicts a 13:55 training pace, I'm assuming that means your mile time was around 9:10. Clearly 10:15 is within your capabilities for short distances. The devil is in the distance.

However, I have to ask about that 10:15 pace. Did you run 9 miles at that pace? Because if you did, I don't think you have a very accurate MM time. If you can average 10:15 for 9 miles, you should be able to run a single mile more than one minute faster than that. So my first recommendation would be for you to redo your MM if that was case so that you have an accurate estimate of your current running fitness.

But putting that aside, if 13:55 is your recommended training pace, then your predicted race pace is 11:00 minutes per mile. There is a lot of research (not just from Jeff) that supports the relationship between the paces you can run at different distances. The longer the run, the slower you will have to go, whether you want to or not. If you ignore this advice, one of two things will happen (eventually). Because fast paces do a lot of damage to your body, you will find it increasingly difficult to recover completely in between runs if every run is faster than race pace. Because of this, you will find it increasingly difficult to maintain the required mileage. And you will very probably end up sidelined by injury.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/16/2014 (02:21)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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4/15/14 11:21 P

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Hi!

I started walking December 2012. I walked my first 5k race a year ago, added jogging intervals gradually thereafter, and ran/walked my first 10k race Sept 2013. I signed up to do a half marathon Oct 2014!!

I don't really know my run/walk intervals yet. I just got a Garmin Forerunner 220 and I'm playing with the interval function to figure out the best ratio.

I'm trying to follow Jeff's half marathon training schedule. My longest long run so far has been 9 miles. I have plenty of time to train but I'm trying to build in a little time to allow for travel, illness, and unforeseen challenges. I had some trouble with patellofemoral-femoral pain syndrome (knees) last summer while training for my 10k. I was 30 pounds heavier then and I'm sure I was overstriding. I've been doing the exercises my physical therapist gave me and doing strength training too, so I'm hoping it doesn't flare up again.

My question is this: my MM suggests a half marathon training pace of 13:55. I've been ignoring this and running 10:15/mi on average but now that I'm seriously training, I wonder if I should not dismiss the Galloway training pace advice. I've read his book HM for a Women but couldn't find the answer to my question about going so slowly. Perhaps you experienced runners know the answer. Why does he suggest running so much more slowly to train? It seems like it will just take me forever to complete those long runs if I go that slowly. And do I really need to run that slowly? And run every single run that slow, or just the long runs?

Thanks!

Edited by: RAVELGIRLY at: 4/15/2014 (23:21)
First 5k -April 2013
10k - Sept 2013 1:23:00 / May 18, 2014, 1:00:26 / Sept 7,2014 55:21 / May 17, 2015 52:23 PR
Half Marathon - Oct 5, 2014 2:10:32 / Oct 4, 2015. 2:05:44 / Aug 13, 2016 2:12:45 / Oct 9, 2016 2:06:55 / Sept 3, 2017 2:05:06 PR

Initial goal weight reached 12/10/13. Still maintaining 90 lbs lost as of Sept 2017


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