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LIVE2RUN4LIFE's Photo LIVE2RUN4LIFE SparkPoints: (450,164)
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4/9/14 12:43 P

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Karlie,

Using race times to calculate training paces and predict other race paces is fine. That's all the MM is -- a very short race that gives you a real result.

Since you have been dealing with ITBand issues, I'd go with the conservative MM prediction, i.e. 9:00 /mi. Based on that, your marathon training pace should be 13:42 or slower. That means your 16 mile run should take you 3:40 - 4:00 (since you will be taking breaks); your 18 mile run should take 4:06 - 4:30. the 20 mile run should take 4:34 - 5:00 hours. If you are faster than that, you are too fast. Slower actually is fine. Time on your feet is what you are after.

As for the race. A 9:00 /mi MM predicts a marathon race pace of 11:42 (5:07). That is your best potential pace. But race pace is very, very, very difficult to maintain in a marathon, especially if this is your first marathon and you haven't run farther in training than 20 miles. That last 10K is tough, even when you've done the distance before and have been training for years. To maintain race pace in a marathon, even when you are fully trained and prepared for it, requires you to be willing to suffer in those last miles. Plus, I'm very familiar with the Newport course -- you've got a big hill in the last mile.

I recommend that you plan a slower race, either at training pace or at most one minute faster at 12:42 /mi. That would give you a total time of around 5:30. And I would only plan on trying for that pace if I were fully recovered and had no ITBand issues in my 18 and 20 mile training runs. Going out too fast in a half marathon can make the end difficult. It is orders of magnitude harder on you in a marathon. So use your training runs to not only cover the distance but to practice pacing yourself sensibly.

That's my advice, based on having run 17 marathons, at least one of which I paced improperly.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/9/2014 (12:46)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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DRADDIE's Photo DRADDIE SparkPoints: (56,255)
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4/9/14 11:02 A

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Catherine- yes, I have 16, 18, 20 left with a shorter run in between those.

This weekend's 16 miler will really give me a lot of information and feedback given the IT band and pacing. Last weekend I did 8 miles at a proper long slow run pace and it was fine, so I'm actually very intrigued to see how 16 at the proper slow pace will be.

I'm thinking of doing my 20 miles at 4 weeks out and try to encourage my sister to do just a wee bit faster on her half that I am scheduled to do with her. I can run 7 miles before the half starts to get a full 20 miles in with her. And that would also force me to do my 20 miles very slow . . VERY slow. I'm just a bit worried that it wouldn't help with the mental wall of moving constantly for 20 miles as my sister will do considerably more walking than I had planned for my 20 mile run..but again, maybe that's a good thing.

Catherine- I haven't done a true magic mile. However, my 5k's and my half marathons are all so similar paced that I have done it backwards in the calculation. Instead of using a magic mile to predict race, I have used my races to predict my magic mile and then given myself a bit more margin. My magic mile according to back predicting with my race averages would be 8:45-9.

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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LIVE2RUN4LIFE's Photo LIVE2RUN4LIFE SparkPoints: (450,164)
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4/9/14 9:59 A

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Karlie, what is your long run schedule between now and your race? If I remember correctly, your longest so far is 14. Your race is 7 weeks out. With a 3 week taper, that gives you time for only 3 more long runs, assuming a long run every two weeks. So I'm assuming you are doing 16, 18, and 20 miles for those runs, at least on paper. Is your ITBand still bothering you?

Training safely for a marathon is really all about recovery. Recovery depends on a lot of things, but time in between the runs and the pace of the runs are important factors. You will recover better if you run at a very slow training pace. Have you ever done a Magic Mile? Do you know what the right training pace is for your current level of running fitness?

Given your recent history of recovery issues after your Half, I would be leery of running 20 miles just two weeks before the race. It can work but only if 1) you run the 20 miles very slowly and 2) which is more important, your plan for the marathon is to also run it at training pace. You almost definitely won't be ready in two weeks for race pace. Can you exercise that sort of discipline in the race? If not, you need the the 3 week recovery before the race.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 4/9/2014 (10:12)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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SEABREEZE65's Photo SEABREEZE65 Posts: 11,207
4/9/14 6:39 A

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Hi Draddie....

I am not a marathoner, and will also like the read the responses from the team's marathoners. If it were me though.....I would do the 20 miles 2 weeks prior to the race and adjust the pace to slower than your marathon training pace. I cannot recall your training times, but I would reduce it by about 30 seconds.

So, if your marathon race pace is 12:00 and your training pace is 14:00, I would try for a 14:30 pace for this run.

SB

Edited by: SEABREEZE65 at: 4/9/2014 (06:40)
"It's not how old you are, it's how you are old."

"I am still learning." Michelangelo

"You aren't old until age becomes your excuse." Joe Friel




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4/8/14 10:54 P

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To all the marathoners here....my first is getting closer.

But I am now scheduled to go to Disneyland the weekend I am to do the 20 mile run of my training plan, which is the longest run of my plan, and thus to me, CRAZY important. I might be able to do it while in California, but honestly not sure if I can get the time away because a slow run at 20 miles is LONG when I'm only there for a long weekend - and uncertain it'd be a smart move with all the walking I will be doing.

So if I can't get it in...when is a better time to do it? The weekend before that (4 weeks prior to race), mid week sometime if I can even find the time which is doubtful, the weekend after (2 weeks prior)? I'm excited about Disney but totally bummed about the timing!!

Any suggestions?

And . . I suppose I could instead of having a smaller run between 18 and 20 miles. I could just do 18 miles one week and 20 the next? The problem with that however - is I am scheduled to do a half marathon with my sister for my run that weekend - and I know I will mainly be walking it - so even if I added miles before it to make 20, it wouldn't mentally feel like I was doing 20 miles because her pace is considerably slower than even my slower runs by a good couple minutes. And then I obviously don't want to try a 20 miler the day after walk/slow running the 13.1 with her.

sigh

Edited by: DRADDIE at: 4/8/2014 (23:10)
Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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