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3/14/14 11:06 P

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Here's a video of Jeff explaining how to do a cadence drill.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0pb3JDD2WA

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
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3/14/14 10:31 P

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Got any good suggestions for figuring cadence or cadence drills? I'm only just now learning about cadence in my google research on running ;) I keep reading that 180 - I listen to music and listen to high beat songs - 150 -180 so I know that helps me at least keep it up there. I guess I should just take my watch and count for some times to see what I actually do run!

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/14/14 7:56 P

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Another option for maintaining between training cycles is to run by time. For example, if your half marathon time is three hours, do 1.5 hour long runs during your maintenance periods. Don't worry about pace and run by feel.

To run faster (assuming you are already running at a good cadence), you basically must cover more ground with each stride. Since over striding is not good for you, that means that you must increase the power of your stride so that you spend more time in the air between foot strikes. Strong glutes are key to that, as well as strong and flexible hips. Workouts and exercise that develop these muscles make a big difference, like hill sprints, squats (done properly so that they use the glutes), single leg squats, lunges, side lying leg lift (etc).

If you aren't running at a good cadence (about 180 steps per minute), you can also do cadence drills to improve that.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
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3/14/14 3:16 P

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2BACOWGIRL....

ask first.... am I injury free....if yes....

Personally, I have run 12-13 miles consistently every two weeks year round for a few years. But now that I am having some issues, I am wondering if this was necessary. Possibly 10 miles every two weeks will be a good compromise. You don't wear yourself out as much and you do not have many miles to add to reach 13.

as far as getting faster.....

I would alternate a tempo run one week with intervals the next.

Tempo run: at least 20 minutes a little faster (30 seconds) than your half marathon pace.
Intervals: 400s or 800s.

I would also have a cut back week every 5th week or so just to give the body a break - all easy runs....

Edited by: SEABREEZE65 at: 3/14/2014 (15:22)
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3/14/14 2:57 P

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I am doing a half the May 5th, and do not plan to do another one until October. I will still be running from May to October, but how often and what length of long run would I need to do so I won't have to start all over for my October half? Also I am trying to figure out how to get faster using this method. Right now I am about a 12;30 to 13;00 minute mile. Any suggestions would be great. I have tried using different intervals 3:1. 2:1. 40;20, 1;30.

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3/7/14 12:43 P

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What assumptions are made about how much running you've done before starting this cycle? Are you starting with amost nothing for the long run and building up? Karlie said she just started training for the marathon in January. She definitely isn't at week 33 of a cycle for this half marathon, plus she is only at about 13 miles for a longest run ever, with less than 2 months to go to get her musculo-skeletal system ready for much longer distances.

This sort of plan targets someone who is in long term training mode. It assumes you've trained 33 weeks to get to that half. To drop into it without that longer term training time is risky, imho. Just speaking from my own experience training for marathons. Overuse injuries are always a possibility if you try to do too much too soon.

By the way, this isn't a discussion of whether to do the half but rather at what pace. If you have been training for 33 weeks, then by all means race the half on the way to training for 49 weeks for the full. I'd still recommend not "racing" your first full.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 3/7/2014 (12:53)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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SEABREEZE65's Photo SEABREEZE65 Posts: 11,207
3/7/14 11:46 A

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The year round book ....

A 52 week plan (easy, medium, advanced)(A, B, C plans) Each varies just a bit.

Plan B....
Train for a 5K - run it - week 13
Train for a 10K - run it - week 19
Train for a HM - run it - week 33
Train for a M - run it - week 49
A few weeks of recovery runs

A lot of time between the HM goal race and the M.

Edited by: SEABREEZE65 at: 3/7/2014 (11:47)
"It's not how old you are, it's how you are old."

"I am still learning." Michelangelo

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3/7/14 11:32 A

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How many runs will you do that are 18 miles or longer? It helps mentally to have done the distance, but it isn't mandatory. My bigger concern is for your tendons, ligaments, etc, which will have had less "hardening" time to enable them to handle the distance and time on your feet.

All the more reason to run this first one "to finish" and not push the pace too much. It is a natural tendency to think only of the cardiovascular requirements of an endurance event. But with a marathon, the challenge to the musculo-skeletal system is the bigger issue.

It also depends on how old you are, how long you have been running -- if you have been running for years, then you start with a leg up, as it were.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 3/7/2014 (11:39)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/7/14 11:12 A

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Yes, this will be starting the longest I have ever run. 13.1 a handful of times is my longest so far.

Unfortunately, I didn't realize Galloway's plan started longer than it did. I think his is 32 weeks right? I started in January and the plan I grabbed that fit with the time frame I had has 20 as it's long run. I've been considering adding a mile or so to the prescribed plans since it does a lot of up jump up and down in order to increase it a tad. My race is May 31st and the 20 mile run is in on the 17th weekend. I wish I had planned enough in advance to follow Galloway's plan and hit that 26 mile run.

Am I going to die mentally by not doing a 26 one?

This weekend right now is 10 and next is 12. And then it goes up and down from there adding two miles for the longer runs as they increase.

I'm going to re-pull out my ebook of Galloway's marathon you can do it and re look at his advice in there too. I'm agreeing with you Catherine, that I probably should stay on the building up focus rather than the time focus for this half marathon next week.

Edited by: DRADDIE at: 3/7/2014 (11:12)
Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/7/14 10:18 A

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That would yield a pace at or slightly faster than Marathon race pace. Pretty fast for this stage of a marathon training plan when you are building up the long run.

SB, does the year round plan do a build up to the marathon race or does it assume that you are maintaining a fairly long run once a month so that you aren't working on building up long run mileage targeting a specific race? It makes a difference.

Karlie, since you said that this is your first marathon, I've assumed that you probably haven't run much farther than half marathon distance yet. What is your longest run? If you have done a lot of 20 mile runs in the past few months, then I will change my advice. If not, and you are currently at the stage in your training where you are beginning to run your "longest distance ever" in training every two weeks or so, then I will stick with my recommendation that you do this race at training pace. Conquer the distance first.

By the way, are you using a Galloway marathon plan? If not, how long will your longest training run be?

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 3/7/2014 (10:21)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/7/14 6:51 A

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If it were me, I would pick a pace for the HM that is about 30 - 60 seconds slower than Jeff's recommended HM race pace. Still a strong run, stronger than a marathon training pace, but also not so difficult that you will need a lot of recovery time.

In Jeff's Year Round Plan book he has the runner running a HM 16 to 19 weeks prior the the marathon goal race.

Maybe you can figure out how to get a good idea for your paces from this even though you have not done a Magic Mile.

www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-
mi
le/


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3/6/14 11:53 P

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Since you are still two months out from your race, is probably too soon to be doing race rehearsals. I would run it at training pace and just have fun.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/6/14 9:44 P

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The end of May, the 31st- the training plan I have been following for long runs has me at 12 next weekend - so I figured the 13 would work for that and make it a lot more fun than a solo run around my town with no 'water' support!

Plus- it's always nice to get a med and a shirt for running ;)

Edited by: DRADDIE at: 3/6/2014 (21:45)
Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/6/14 9:29 P

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It seems like an excellent opportunity to do a marathon rehearsal if you are far enough along in your training cycle. When is your marathon?

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/6/14 8:15 P

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Okay another question about marathon training---

I just signed up for a half marathon that my hubby and I were originally going to do a 5k on but he just battled the flu and would rather not have his first 5k after that understandably. So insted of doing my 13 mile training run by myself, I'm going to do the half marathon.

Do I run this as a normal half marathon race as I normally would a half marathon pace, or do I stick to the slower planned pace of the marathon to see how I feel (or do I leave that for my non race training runs) or do I go even slower to make it a very relaxed training run? Thanks in advance!

Edited by: DRADDIE at: 3/6/2014 (20:16)
Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/6/14 12:59 P

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Thanks all for the advice!!

I think I'm going to stick with the 3 and 1, but honestly, I think I will try a 2 and 1 pace on my half I am hoping to do next weekend just to see if I feel 'great' at the end of it. All my 3 half marathons I was glad to be done at the end, although the 2nd one I could have kept going if I needed to. The third I was just tired of the cold!! The first - the one I ran as much as I could, I was DEAD.

I think I'm going to see if I can hock my breastpump in order to buy a forerunner. Easy to justify it when it's extra money! :D



Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/6/14 7:18 A

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PACERS: I would stay behind the pace group and just keep them in sight.

FORERUNNERS: Many use these. I really enjoy all the data mine provides.

Catherine (LIVE2RUN4LIFE) has quite a lot of marathon experience. Running at a doable pace right from the beginning seems to be a huge key!!!

Have fun training and good luck with your race.

BTW: Jeff often uses 30:30 for his marathons.

Edited by: SEABREEZE65 at: 3/6/2014 (07:19)
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3/5/14 6:38 P

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Even if a race doesn't have Galloway pacers, you can still use the pacers to help you pace your race. Just keep them in sight.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
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We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
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3/5/14 6:26 P

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In the Lakeland Half Marathon we had Galloway pacers. I know some other races have had them, too. I ran with the 2:30 group, running 3min/walk 1 min. I knew the 2:10 pacer, too, and I also think he was running 3/1.

I've run a couple halves without Galloway pacers. Honestly, the Disney Princess was so crowded I couldn't run at my pace so often skipped or shortened my walk break. The Women's Half in St Pete I didn't have any trouble, taking walk breaks on the left side.


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3/5/14 5:36 P

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Karlie, with those HM times, a 5 hour marathon goal is certainly feasible.

Some things to consider -- just how tired were you at the end of those races? Could you have gone another 13 miles at that pace? I'm sure I'm pointing out the obvious here but it pays to remind ourselves that we can't run the first 13 miles of a marathon the same way we run a HM; we've got to conserve our resources. The last six miles will always be hard, especially if you have not yet run that far. It really helps if your legs have already managed the distance so that now it is just a question of pace.

Knowing your pace every mile is good enough to make adjustments. One thing you should practice during training runs is to learn what race pace feels like. You can't really pace a race by staring at a watch all the time. Your brain and body need to feel the correct pace and right level of effort.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/5/14 4:53 P

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I also unfortunately, only have my phone for pacing which it gives me after a mile so it's hard to adjust. I wish I could find a way to justify buying a forerunner or something - heheheh

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/5/14 4:39 P

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Catherine-

Wow- what great info!

No, I have not done a true magic mile test- I just seem to be very consistent when I run in a race environment. My first half was 2:15 - that one I ran until 9.5 miles and then walked a lot after when I needed to, mostly flat with hills at beginning and end. My 2nd half was a 4 and 1 pace after the first 1-2 miles and I finished that at 2:12, it was a very flat course. My 3rd was 3 and 1 in very cold weather with some hills in the middle. All three of those races I started out faster than I needed to be. So given those half times, I just randomly assigned myself hoping to do better than 5:30 and ideally hoping for 5 allowing myself a slower pace. My training runs now I have been doing around 11..sometimes a little under and if it's hilly, a bit higher. But I'm not yet over a half marathon length to see how things go after I have run that far (and that's the farthest I have ever run.)

Based off what you said, and what I feel, I am definitely not going to do 4 and 1 for the full marathon. It doesn't improve my pace really and I get more worn out.

For curiosity sake I am going to try a 2 and 1 interval on my long run this weekend!!

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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3/5/14 4:20 P

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PS When choosing an interval for a long race like the marathon, go for the one that is most comfortable. It is very hard to maintain an interval (for that long) that you have to work hard at.

I ran my first marathon in 5 hours (4:59) and did that using 2/1 intervals. Had I tried to use 4/1, I would have run out of gas before the end. Delaying fatigue is the key to a successful marathon. Once your legs are tired, there is no going back.

That's also why it is very important not to run too fast at the beginning. Stick with your goal pace from beginning to end. It will feel slow at first and get harder and harder as the miles go by.

Edited by: LIVE2RUN4LIFE at: 3/5/2014 (16:23)
Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/5/14 4:00 P

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Hi, good luck with your race.

I do have some suggestions for selecting intervals. First, I'm assuming that you have done a magic mile or some other race trial to validate that a 5 hour time goal is a reasonable option for you. Would this time require you to run at a pace at the high end of what you normally run or is it somewhere in between training pace and "best pace"? For a first marathon, it's best to choose a goal that requires that "somewhere in between" pace.

You should do a "race rehearsal" training run that is at least 10 miles and better 13 miles long. Wear a heart rate monitor, if you have one. Short runs aren't good predictors of what you can maintain for 26 miles. Warm up for a few mile and then select the interval you want to use. Your goal is to hit and maintain your race pace for the rest of the run. For a 5 hour marathon, that would be 11:20 per mile (this allows for the fact that you will probably run longer than 26.2 miles in the actual race).

If you are able to maintain this pace for the rest of the run, that's a good start. But you also need to pay attention to how doing that actually feels. If your heart rate isn't still in the middle of the aerobic zone at the end of the run (i.e. around 75% of max), or you are really tired and the run is no longer conversational, then that's a sign that either the pace is too fast and/or the interval too long. Play around with intervals to find one that lets you maintain goal pace without feeling worn out doing it.

About walk breaks at the beginning. I sometimes wait a mile or so, too. But only when the race is very, very crowded. If you do skip early walk breaks, it is important that you slow the pace way down, i.e. keep it at goal pace (11:20), which means running a lot slower than you do when you take walk breaks. Otherwise, you will burn up too much energy early.

Catherine

If you're not having fun, then why run?

You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now.
-- Joan Baez

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world.
-- the Buddha


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3/5/14 2:44 P

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So I've got my first marathon coming up the end of May and have been increasing my mileage on the weekends. I have been doing a 3/1 interval on the long runs - and I really enjoy this pace- and do 5 to 1 often on shorter runs and frankly don't enjoy those runs as much. I figure as the runs get even longer on the weekends - I will see whether to stick with 3 or do 4 for when the actual marathon comes.

Anyone have any suggestions about how to determine the intervals best for the actual race?

Also, I have a half marathon coming up and if I don't have to go with my sister's pace, am considering sticking around a pacer. Does anyone have any experience with doing run/walk methods while kind of sticking to a pacer ? Obviously there will be points of forward and back if they are running the whole time. And I know pacers can get ahead of themselves at the same time. How do pacers and the Galloway method work best?

And then last question - How do you get yourself to actually walk a few minutes into a race vs not getting caught up in the hoopla!!!????? I have done the run/walk method the last two half marathons I have done and usually end up running the first couple miles before I feel like I am in the place where it mellows out a bit. If that's what most do I will, but sure wish I had less 'pride' to start walking as I should!!!

My marathon has two starts- a walker start and a runner start. Given my predicted time, they told me to sign up for the runner start, but I'm wondering if I should sign up for the walker to not have to deal with the pressure of the constant runners? I'm shooting for 5:30 but hoping for 5 or under. 5:30 and later is their suggestion for the walking time and 5:30 and under they suggest the runner start. Any thoughts on this?

Okay, thanks for any advice people have to offer!

Karlie

Deut 2:3, "You have circled this mountain long enough. Now turn north."

~May Your Dreams Not Have Teeth~


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