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SWIFTSEATURTLE's Photo SWIFTSEATURTLE Posts: 3,328
12/2/09 5:17 P

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Hi - What interesting comments, especially the ones (most of them) I totally agree with. I couldn't have said it as well, though.

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ROYALETBONE's Photo ROYALETBONE SparkPoints: (46,524)
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11/24/09 12:25 A

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Ooooh- welcome, and thanks for the opportunity to have philosophical discussions, and like that!
I have this weird blended psych & science & magick & lore belief. Like- Jungian archetypes, and the porosity of things- that information travels with the atoms in funny ways- that time dilates and contracts sometimes, that what we call- ghosts- may be a space time warp caused by strong imprinting, that there may be wildness beyond our ken and like that... that the 'true' magick is that of focused intent and will, and desire- and that all of that awesome deliciousness does not add up to a being who can 'intervene' and change things. The power is in you and me- in us to change and learn from the past, and to become. And that's an amazing power and responsibility.
Old Quaker saying about it is not us who are in God's hands- but that the only hands that God has are yours- and mine. It is for us to do, to create and make. That's what I was raised with- but I pretty much deleted Gawd talk from my own manual!
And other esoteric stuff that we rarely bring up, cause this team is mostly about taking responsibility for our own choices... and not getting prayed over, or thanking the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or like that!

Mare-

Direction, not perfection!

It's not a DIE-et- it's a LIVE-it!

I am a kind of pranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy. - JD Salinger



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LOSTINPAPERWORK's Photo LOSTINPAPERWORK Posts: 202
11/23/09 8:19 P

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Yes, a ghost is a dead person's spirit, but I don't look at it as them living an "afterlife." An afterlife to me is a real life after we/they die; not just energy "going around" or whatever. And, if they were a dead person's spirit living an after-life or another life, I still don't see the connection to a god... do you know what I mean? Oh well. I'm not trying to argue at all. :-)

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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
11/23/09 7:30 P

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so a ghost isn't a dead person's spirit? I always heard that a ghost is someone still hanging around after they died. I dunno! lol

“it's been up to me to inspire me.”
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

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DANCINGPENGUIN's Photo DANCINGPENGUIN SparkPoints: (0)
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11/23/09 4:34 P

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Hi and emoticon

Simplify


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LOSTINPAPERWORK's Photo LOSTINPAPERWORK Posts: 202
11/22/09 7:54 P

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I guess I'm not sure what you mean. So, you're saying that if there are such things as spirits, the fact that they are spirits (pretending now that it is fact) that they are living an afterlife? I think of them as an energy... having nothing to do with a god... does that make sense?

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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
11/22/09 6:49 P

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LOSTINPAPERWORK- just to answer your question "what does this (ghosts) have to do with God?"
To me it would mean that there is a separate spirit and and afterlife. That kind of falls into religion in my eyes.

“it's been up to me to inspire me.”
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

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PROMETHIAL's Photo PROMETHIAL Posts: 939
11/22/09 6:11 P

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Oh and welcome too. :)

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PROMETHIAL's Photo PROMETHIAL Posts: 939
11/22/09 6:08 P

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Since there is a side track I think I can comment. :)

Having tried to see why people would watch shows like Ghost Hunters on Scifi (SyFy) I've pretty much come to the idea they want to feel something religious in nature. If putting yourself in sensory deprivation conditions illicits a thrill, or worse, watching other people do it causes that rush, so be it I guess.

Having crawled into some caves and other places with total deprivation of my senses, I dont believe most people when they say they have had a paranormal experience. The mind, like nature, abhors a vacuum and quickly fills in the lack of input with all sorts of it's own imagining. Turn off the lights in a muffled, totally dark cave that doesn't reflect even the sound of your own breathing and within moments you can have some of the best/worst experiences with the paranormal you could want.

Though having seen some people need therapy from doing what I have done, I think the Star Wars quote is best for that experience: "Only what you take with you." If you have a ton of loose screws or think a poltergeist is going to harm you or have a ton of unresolved trauma issues, they will surface and you are "on your own" in sorting them out.

I'm a skeptic that believes in all sorts of things that go "bump in the night" mainly because it keeps my mind busy when it decides to get spooked. Why not believe in fairy folk causing the limb to fall versus gravity and what not in the dark? It is a pleasant image to try and evoke. Now those who think it is a malevolent spirit rampaging and wanting to cause them harm, I think those people need to get some therapy. :) Too much old time fairy tales to keep your children from getting harmed spill over into our adult lives. Trolls under flood prone bridges, ghosts in plague ridden grave yards, spirits in caves, etc etc. See a pattern? People simply choose to keep believing something they know is not quantifiable. I do envy some of them though for holding on to that child like fantasy image of the world. Much more comforting that thinking that every action you take is sending you to a fire and brimstone afterlife ...

:)





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LOSTINPAPERWORK's Photo LOSTINPAPERWORK Posts: 202
11/21/09 6:25 P

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Yes- that is a great way to put it- "too open." I bet that is true. Then they think anything and everything is a ghost!! (or whatever they want to call it) :-) I, personally, see no correlation between ghosts and God. Say it was proven that there were ghosts. What does that have to do with God? I have a friend who is a "psychic medium." Not a Sylvia Brown or anything- she doesn't do it for a job, she just "is" one (of course it's arguable, depending on how you look at it). Anyway, she says that she has seen angels so she believes in God. But I say, "Why, just because you've seen angels, does that mean there is a God?" I don't buy that. :-)
I completely agree with you Electralyte- no one does KNOW. I also think too that if we do the right thing and are good people, then it's all good.
My mom was raised Southern Baptist. That is a very scary religion to me. :-(

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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
11/21/09 5:21 P

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welcome to the team!
I don't KNOW about God, or ghosts. If I saw a ghost, I'd probably more likely believe in God.
My experience with religion comes from a strict Southern Baptist minister for a father that liked to beat women and children. And a church full of hypocrites that enjoyed judging everyone.
All I can say is I don't know, don't believe anyone does know. Just being a good person. It's the right thing to do and if there is a God I'll be safe! emoticon

“it's been up to me to inspire me.”
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
11/21/09 5:06 P

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I didn't take your response as arguing, just pointing out your own experiences.

I suspect it's probably possible to be too open, just as it's possible to be too closed. Among the group my friend is dealing with? Well, at least one person is either feeling something that's not there or not feeling something that is. And of course, even if I'd ever been there I could easily have been one of the one's who's "wrong". Whatever "wrong" ends up meaning in that context.

Thanks for welcoming me to the team.

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LOSTINPAPERWORK's Photo LOSTINPAPERWORK Posts: 202
11/21/09 4:46 P

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Right- I totally get that if one is looking for them, they would be more likely to be open to "feeling" them or whatever. If you are closed off to it, you won't recongnize it, if indeed, it were "there." I hope you don't think I was arguing with you. It's just been my experience that if you haven't had an "encounter" then you most likely wouldn't believe in them. And with that also, there are lots of variations with demons and all sorts of weird "stuff" that I don't particularly buy... And yes, just because a book fell off a shelf or a light blinks, does not mean at all that it was a spirit.
:-) I'm 42 and I hadn't had any experiences with spirits until about 2 years ago... anyway, blah, blah, blah. :-)

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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
11/21/09 3:25 P

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I think part of the problem for me with ghosts is that I have a friend who's been around when other people we know have "felt" the presence of spirits. As he puts it, they always feel these things but he never sees, feels, or hears anything.

I've pointed out that while he's right that they are looking to feel something which often leads to them feeling it, because of his perception that there probably aren't ghosts he would be less likely to feel something because he's not looking for it in the same way. And if he saw or heard something he would be more likely to look for the more "realistic" cause rather than come to the conclusion that it's a spirit.

So it could be that my friend is around ghosts all the time but just doesn't know how to realize it, or it could be that the other people are attributing odd feelings to ghosts when it isn't warranted. I've never been in these situations so I'm not certain.

I am fairly certain that most of the people who tell me they live with ghosts are wrong. A book fell off a shelf, a weird noise was heard, a room has a cold spot, et cetera. These could be because of spirits, or they could be because of completely mundane things. It could also be ghosts, but I think far too many of the people I know decide it's ghosts without really looking into it.

I of course don't know the details of what happened to you. As I said before, I'm not completely closed to the idea that what you saw or heard was a ghost. But you're right that if I never see/hear one I'll probably never fully believe in them.

Edited by: DANCINGDARKLY at: 11/21/2009 (15:26)
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LOSTINPAPERWORK's Photo LOSTINPAPERWORK Posts: 202
11/21/09 2:48 P

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Great to have you here- this is such a great group to be in. :-)
Unless you have experienced seeing/hearing a ghost or whatever, you probably won't believe it. I'm not religious at all; don't believe in the God of the Bible (I believe it was all written by man and all of that) but I do believe in spirits- whether you call them ghosts or not- because my husband and I have both had experiences with them, separately and at the same time. That, to me, is more tangible than any God could be. And I don't believe there are any demonic evil spirits that will possess your body and make your head spin around and around and around. And that's the thing- I don't care if anyone believes me if (I rarely do) tell them about my experiences with spirits and I would never, ever try and convince someone that I'm right and they're wrong, like religious people do... It's just all pretty fascinating to me. :-)
ANYWAY, that was a bit of a rant, huh? :-)
Welcome! :-)

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ADOPTMOM1 Posts: 8,660
11/21/09 9:29 A

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Nice to meet you! I also have friends who are heavily into the supernatural. Many belong to a local ghost tracking group. I don't get it but they live for it. The only time I've ever gotten the sense that maybe we're not alone was when I was in Italy, especially Florence and Rome. Those sections of town which are thousands of years old, like around the Pantheon really gave me a sense of something. You could just feel the people who had walked there centuries ago.

Tami

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DANCINGDARKLY's Photo DANCINGDARKLY Posts: 959
11/21/09 2:57 A

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Hello Team.

My mother was a lapsed WASP and my father was a lapsed Jew. They figured they'd let me choose for myself, so I'm an agnostic. I went through brief flirtations with religions; Judaism when I was a kid and Wicca when I was a teenager. I've read the Bible and the Koran just to try to understand what all the fuss was about.

I used to be jealous of people with religious faith because they knew (or at least thought they knew) what they were doing here and what would happen to them after they died.

But in the past few years I've come to terms with who I am and what I believe. I believe there may be a higher power, but I will probably never believe in any particular religion. I do what I can for others, not because it will help me in the afterlife but because I think that's what I should do. I don't know what (if anything) will happen to me once I'm dead, but I don't think it matters much. If I'm a decent person here, I assume that will help me in any theoretical afterlife. If there is no afterlife, I'm trying to live my life with as few regrets as possible.

I've been fortunate when it comes to religion. It wasn't imposed on me by my family. I grew up in NYC where there are religious people but not that many proselytizers, at least not among my friends. Now I'm in Austin, TX where there are more religious people but I still don't feel pressured by them.

What's bothered me recently is an increase in the number of friends of mine who believe in the supernatural. I don't mean "believe" in the sense of thinking that maybe there are ghosts and maybe some people are psychic. I mean there are people who will tell me about the ghost "living" in their home. Maybe there are ghosts, but if so, I think they must have better things to do with their time than just wander around someone's apartment.

Anyway, I've been on SP since July, and so far it's going well for me. The last couple of weeks I've had difficulty staying on track for a variety of reasons, but hopefully I'm in the process of getting myself back on track.

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