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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,307
7/19/18 12:28 P

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I've come to this late, and am trying to catch up, but here's the information for anyone who may want to do the same... what I have been able to watch so far has been more than worth my time. I'll be recording my notes here, so you can read and see if it may be worth your time, too!

(just be aware that technical difficulties seem to be a bit of a problem)

Register to receive episode notifications:
therealskinnyonfat.com/optin/

"For Decades We've Been Getting Fatter
Since the dawn of the industrial revolution and access to plentiful yet increasingly unhealthy “fast” food… we've been getting fatter, aging more quickly and just becoming downright sicker.

In fact, studies show a dramatic increase in obesity from just the early 60s.

“From 23% obesity in 1962, reaching 39.4% in 1997, 44.5% in 2004, 56.6% in 2007, and 63.8% (adults) and 17% (children) in 2008. In 2010, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported higher numbers once more, counting 65.7% of American adults as overweight, and 17% of American children, and according to the CDC, 63% of teenage girls become overweight by age 11."


This brand new documentary series (9 episodes, one airing each day, for 24 hours, until July 25th) brings together over 50 top experts in the world to finally uncover WHY we keep getting fatter and unhealthier… and WHAT we need to do to take back our health and future."


Here is episode 1 (aired on July 17)
(permanently available on youtube, so I'll watch this last)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdoSSaKjv7A&t=307s


Here is the current episode:
(aired Friday, July 20 until Saturday 9:00 PM EST - up for 24 hrs.):
The REAL Skinny on Fat - Episode 4: Change Your Metabolism for Good!
www.therealskinnyonfat.com/episodes/4-e-so
f.html














The REAL Skinny on Fat - Episode 1:
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EPISODE 1 - BONUS INTERVIEW:






Edited by: _RAMONA at: 7/21/2018 (06:09)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,307
4/21/18 2:52 A

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Hey there, Alofa!

I'm doing okay... feeling better (stupid Spring cold), but overwhelmed otherwise, though hanging in. I ended my fast at 33 days (cortisol, lack of sleep, and disruption to routine pushed me over the edge). I'm good with that, though I'm behind on my journal here.... hopefully I can tie up the loose ends next week.

For now, I'm fasting at least 16 hours a day and sticking with my keto nutritional plan (finding it hard to get my macros straight, LOL... not enough fat), and trying to get organized enough to do a 42-6 fasting/eating routine. It's funny how I could fast continuously for so long, but I can't seem to get a rhythm going for a shorter fasting/fed habit.

Curious how it's like starting all over again with regard to getting into a keto *state of mind.* I think it's safe to say that my very favourite thing about fasting is its simplicity. I love how I feel when in ketosis, but even after fasting for so long, unless I have my macros right on point, my body struggles to keep my BG in check.

I'm spending more time thinking about how non-food related factors impact on my physiology and complicate things. Right now I'm having a bit of difficulty just trusting the process.

Lots to think about... yet at the same time I think I need a fresh perspective. I'm looking forward to the keto and fasting summits!









Edited by: _RAMONA at: 7/19/2018 (12:30)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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ALOFA0509's Photo ALOFA0509 SparkPoints: (49,736)
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Posts: 8,683
4/17/18 7:33 P

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emoticon emoticon

emoticon Hello Friend!! howz your fasting coming along? been in and out, trying to finish up house projects! Yard, Kitchen/Bath rehaul--- Hope all is well

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,307
4/17/18 3:43 P

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If you want to know more about eating KETOGENICALLY:


ketoedgesummit.com/

REGISTER TODAY for the Keto Edge Summit, and gain the knowledge you need to address your health challenges and live your best life HERE:
ketoedgesummit.com/



From Mark Sisson:

"Hi everybody,

Keto is now one of the most popular Internet searches today. But it's about more than just curiosity. People are actively (sometimes desperately) seeking keto's remarkable benefits to lose weight and reclaim health. Beyond its top-notch efficiency for weight loss, however, keto can boost energy, enhance performance, and alleviate or remedy certain health conditions.

I'll be one of many authors, physicians and researchers to speak at the upcoming Keto Edge Summit—and I'd love it if you joined me at this online event you won't want to miss. I'll be discussing sugar vs. fat in the process of keto adaptation, the biggest keto mistakes that derail results, and the best path to slowly transition into a sustainable keto lifestyle.

Here are 9 ways a ketogenic lifestyle can benefit your well-being....

1. Reduced Inflammation—A ketogenic lifestyle drastically lowers inflammation due to the reduced amount of free radical production that occurs when burning ketones for energy instead of glucose. This allows for more energy production and a more efficiently functioning body, as well as a heightened ability for the body to heal.

2. Improved Fat Burning—By definition, being in a state of ketosis means you're burning fat for energy. If you have excess body fat, you'll be able to burn it at a more efficient rate.

3. Mental Clarity & Sharpness—Neurological inflammation is insidious and has been linked with depression, anxiety and poor cognitive function. A reduction in inflammation due to a ketogenic lifestyle can be helpful for neurological disorders and generally improve mental performance.

4. Abundant Energy—Increased energy from a ketogenic lifestyle is due to the decrease in inflammation, upregulation of mitochondrial biogenesis, more ATP per molecule of ketone, and more stable blood sugar.

5. Clearer Skin—Skin conditions like eczema, acne and psoriasis are often rooted in chronic inflammation or autoimmunity. While other factors should also be addressed, following a ketogenic lifestyle can help to quickly lower inflammation and accelerate healing.

6. Reduced Cravings—Getting into a state of ketosis balances blood sugar, provides the brain with stable energy, and eliminates cravings. In fact, people in a ketogenic state often say they barely think about food between meals.

7. Mitochondrial Biogenesis—Most of us have been using sugar for energy our entire lives. During the transition phase, old and weak mitochondria die off to stimulate the growth of new and stronger mitochondria for, in many cases, more energy production.

8. Anti-Aging Effects—Because mitochondria have such a profound impact on energy production, inflammation levels and gene expression that promote mitochondrial health can be of great benefit for fighting the multi-point decline associated with aging.

9. Reduced Risk of Chronic Disease—A ketogenic lifestyle may protect your body against a wide array of disease processes. The combination of anti-inflammatory effects along with improved mitochondrial function allows the body to heal and mitigate disease processes more effectively.

This is one of the biggest events of the year, and I'm excited to take part. I hope you'll join me for my presentation—as well as enjoy talks by other leading experts like Leanne Vogel, David Jockers, Jimmy Moore, Dominic D'Agostino, and more. You'll hear everything from how to use keto for menopause and hypothyroidism to what we know about keto and cancer, diabetes and cholesterol.

Get ready to learn a ton and be inspired at the Keto Edge Summit.

See you there."



REGISTER TODAY:
ketoedgesummit.com/










Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


 current weight: 135.0 
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163.75
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,307
4/13/18 2:09 P

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If you want to know more about fasting:



2018 FREE ON-LINE Fasting Summit 3

Begins Monday, APRIL 23 - until Monday, APRIL 30, 2018

emoticon
REGISTER HERE:
fastingsummit.com/?idev_id=72&idev_usernam
e=healthtalks




Why Attend The Fasting Summit?

emoticon
Tired of feeling fatigued, sluggy or foggy? This is for you!
emoticon
Wanting to gain access from those who have personal experiences and actual real world results, not just made up hypothesis...this is for you!
emoticon
If you want to discover the fastest way to flood your body with nutrients, that also is easy and restorative to your digestive system...then you definitely need to attend
emoticon
Get actual action steps for you to implement right away so you can start seeing results quickly.

...and so much more!


This FREE Series featuring Doctor's, Nutritionists and Fasting Experts as they reveal the truth about how Fasting affects the body... And The Surprising Solutions That Can Help You Heal!



Here's a bit of a preview:


fastingsummit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/
04/Fasting-Summit-3-PLAYBOOK.pdf



emoticon
REGISTER HERE:
fastingsummit.com/?idev_id=72&idev_usernam
e=healthtalks




...and we can discuss what we hear/learn HERE!
(go now and subscribe to the thread so you don't miss anything)
~ Let's talk about FASTING!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messagebo
ard_thread.asp?board=0x28224x68846417

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Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


 current weight: 135.0 
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 11,307
4/12/18 4:53 P

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In light of the question (below...scroll down a bit) with regard to whether or not I'm doing any testing to monitor conventional health markers along this journey, it's uncanny how this so often works in my life... the following article is much more articulate, with the evidence to back it up... I'm including it in its entirety here because if it disappears (wouldn't be the first time Dr. Fung has been forced by someone's lawyer to remove the truth from his blog), I want a record for my own 'library'.

(Dr. Fung also permits and encourages freely sharing his postings)

THIS is exactly why I no longer have faith in conventional medicine/doctors, and why I very carefully choose whose advice I follow. I now give you Dr. Jason Fung!







The Corruption of Evidence Based Medicine -- Killing for Profit
by Dr. Jason Fung
idmprogram.com/the-corruption-of-evidence-
based-medicine-killing-for-profit/


The idea of Evidence Based Medicine (EBM) is great. The reality, though, not so much. Human perception is often flawed, so the premise of EBM is to formally study medical treatments and there have certainly been some successes.

Consider the procedure of angioplasty. Doctors insert a catheter into the blood vessels of the heart and use a balloon like device to open up the artery and restore blood flow.



In acute heart attacks studies confirm that this is an effective procedure. In chronic heart disease the COURAGE study and more recently the ORBITA study showed that angioplasty is largely useless. EBM helped distinguish the best use of an invasive procedure.

COURAGE study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17387127
ORBITA study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29103656

So, why do prominent physicians call EBM mostly useless? The 2 most prestigious journals of medicine in the world are The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine. Richard Horton, editor in chief of The Lancet said this in 2015:

"The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue"

Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor in chief of NEJM wrote in 2009 that,
Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption
www.nybooks.com/articles/2009/01/15/drug-c
ompanies-doctorsa-story-of-corruption/


"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor"



This has huge implications. *Evidence based medicine is completely worthless if the evidence base is false or corrupted.* It’s like building a wooden house knowing the wood is termite infested. What caused this sorry state of affairs? Well, Dr. Relman another former editor in chief of the NEJM said this in 2002:

"The medical profession is being bought by the pharmaceutical industry, not only in terms of the practice of medicine, but also in terms of teaching and research. The academic institutions of this country are allowing themselves to be the paid agents of the pharmaceutical industry. I think it’s disgraceful"

America's other drug problem: how the drug industry distorts medicine and politics.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12561803

The people in charge of the system -- the editors of the most important medical journals in the world, gradually learn over a few decades that their life’s work is being slowly and steadily corrupted. Physicians and universities have allowed themselves to be bribed.

The examples in medicine are everywhere. Research is almost always paid for by pharmaceutical companies. But studies done by industry are well known to have positive results far more frequently. Trials run by industry are 70% more likely than government funded trials to show a positive result. Think about that for a second. If EBM says that 2+2 = 5 is correct 70% of the time, would you trust this sort of ‘science’?

Outcome reporting among drug trials registered in ClinicalTrials
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679560

Selective Publication -- Negative trials (those that show no benefit for the drugs) are likely to be suppressed. For example, in the case of antidepressants, 36/37 studies that were favourable to drugs were published. But of the studies not favorable to drugs, a paltry 3/36 were published. Selective publication of positive (for the drug company) results means that a review of the literature would suggest that 94% of studies favor drugs where in truth, only 51% were actually positive. Suppose you know that your stockbroker publishes all his winning trades, but suppresses all his losing trades. Would you trust him with your money? But yet, we trust EBM with our lives, even though the same thing is happening.

NEJM: Selective Publication of Antidepressant Trials and Its Influence on Apparent Efficacy
www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa065779
#t=abstract




Let’s look at the following graph of the number of trials completed versus those that were published. In 2008, the company Sanofi completed 92 studies but only a piddly 14 were published. Who gets to decide which gets published and which does not? Right. Sanofi. Which ones do you think will be published? The ones that favor its drugs, or the ones that prove their drugs do not work? Right. Keep in mind that this is the only rational course of action for Sanofi, or any other company to pursue. It’s idiotic to publish data that harms yourself. It’s financial suicide. So this sort of rational behavior will happen now, and it will not stop in the future. But knowing this, why do we still believe the evidence based medicine, when the evidence base is completely biased? An outside observer, only looking at all published data, will conclude that the drugs are far, far more effective than they are in reality. Yet, if you point this out in academic circles, people label you a quack, who does not ‘believe the evidence’.



Rigging of Outcomes -- Or consider the example of registration of primary outcomes. Prior to year 2000, companies doing trials did not need to declare what end points they measured. So they measure many different endpoints and simply figured out which one looked best and then declared the trial a success. Kind of like tossing a coin, looking at which one come up more, and saying that they were backing the winning side. If you measured enough outcomes, something was bound to come up positive.

In 2000, the government moved to stop these shenanigans. They required companies to register what they were measuring ahead of time. Prior to 2000, 57% of trials showed a positive result. After 2000, a paltry 8% showed good results. More evidence of the evidence base being completely corrupted by commercial interest, and the academic physicians who were getting rich on it tacitly allowing corruption because they know that you don’t bite the hand that feeds you.



‘Advertorials’ -- Or this example of a review paper in the NEJM that fracture rates caused by the lucrative bisphosphonate drugs were “very rare”. Not only did the drug companies pay lots of consulting fees to the doctors, three of the authors of this review were full time employees! To allow an advertorial to be published as the best scientific fact is scandalous. Doctors, trusting the NEJM to publish quality, unbiased advice have no idea that this review article is pure advertising. Yet, we still consider the NEJM to be the very pinnacle of evidence based medicine. Instead, as all the editors of the journals sadly recognize, it has become lucre-based publishing. Mo money = better results.

NEJM: Bisphosphonates and Fractures of the Subtrochanteric or Diaphyseal Femur
www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1001086


Money from Reprints -- The reasons for this problem is obvious to all -- it’s insanely profitable for journals to take money from Big Pharma. Journals want to be read. So they all try to get a high Impact Factor (IF). To do this, you need to get cited by other authors. And nothing boosts ratings like a blockbuster produced by Big Pharma. They have the contacts and the sales force to make any study a landmark. A less obvious benefit is the fees that are generated by Big Pharma purchasing articles for reprint. If a company publishes an article in the NEJM, they may order several hundred thousand copies of the article to be distributed to unsuspecting doctors everywhere. These fees are not trivial. The NEJM publisher Massachusetts Medical Society gets 23% of its income from reprints. The Lancet -- 41%. The American Medical Association -- a gut busting 53%. No wonder these journals are ready to sell their readers (ordinary physicians) down the river. It pays. Who needs journalistic ethics when there’s a Mercedes in the driveway? Mo money, baby. Mo money.

Editors, Publishers, Impact Factors, and Reprint Income
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC29643
37/


Bribery of Journal Editors -- A recent study by Liu et al in the BMJ shed more light on the problem of crooked journals. Crooked journal editors. Editors play a crucial role in determining the scientific dialogue by deciding which manuscripts are published. They determine who the peer reviewers are. Using the Open Payments database, they looked at how much money the editors of the most influential journals in the world were taking from industry sources. This includes ‘research’ payments, which are largely unregulated. As mention previously, much ‘research’ consists of going to meetings in exotic locale. It funny how many conferences are held in beautiful European cities like Barcelona, and how few are done in brutally cold Quebec City.

Payments by US pharmaceutical and medical device manufacturers to US medical journal editors: retrospective observational study
www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j4619

Of all journal editors that could be assessed, 50.6% were on the take. The average payment in 2014 was $27,564. Each. This does not include an average $37, 330 given for ‘research’ payments. Other particularly corrupt journals include:



This is slightly horrifying. Each editor of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology received, on average $475 072 personally and another $119 407 for ‘research’. With 35 editors, that’s about $15 million in bribes to doctors. No wonder the JACC loves drugs and devices. It pays the private school bills. Mo money = we’ll publish your crooked studies for you. Mo money, baby, mo money.

Publication Bias -- The evidence base that EBM depends upon is completely biased. Some people think I’m really anti-Pharma, but this is not really true. Big Pharma companies have a duty to their shareholders to make money. They have no duty to patients. On the other hand, doctors have a duty to patients. Universities have a duty to remain unbiased.

It is the failure of doctors and universities to keep their greedy paws out of the corrupting influence of Big Pharma money that is the problem. If Big Pharma is allowed to spend lots of $$$ paying off doctors and universities and professors, then it should do so to maximize profits. That is their mission statement. Doctors love to blame Big Pharma companies because it takes peoples gaze off the real problem -- lots of doctors taking $$$ from anybody who will pay. The pharma industry is not the problem. *Bribery of university doctors is the problem* -- one that is easily fixed if the political will exists.

Consider this study.
Discontinuation and non‐publication of neurodegenerative disease trials: a cross‐sectional analysis
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/en
e.13336


Looking at studies in the field of neurodegenerative disease, researchers looked at all the studies that were started but never finished or never published. Approximately 28% of studies never made it to the finish line. That’s a problem. If all the studies that don’t look promising for drug candidates are not published, then it appears that the drugs are way way more effective than they really are. But the published ‘evidence base’ would falsely support the drug. Indeed, Pharma sponsored trials were *5 times more likely* to be unpublished.

Imagine you have a coin flipping contest. Suppose a player call ‘Big Pharma” chooses heads, and also pays the coin flipper. Every time the coin flipper pulls up tails, the results don’t count. Every time it comes up heads, it counts. This happens 28% of the time. Now, instead of a 50/50 split of heads and tails, it’s more like a 66/34 split of heads/tails. So the ‘evidence based medicine’ lover claims that heads is far more likely to come up than tails, and castigates people who don’t believe the results as ‘anti-science’.

Evidence based medicine depends entirely upon having a reliable base of evidence (studies). If the evidence base is tampered with, and paid for, then EBM as a science is completely useless. Indeed, the very editors whose entire careers have been EBM have now discovered it to be worthless. Does the CEO of Phillip Morris (maker of Marlboro cigarettes) smoke? That tells you all you need to know about the health risks. Do the editors of the NEJM and the Lancet believe EBM anymore? Not at all. So neither should we. We can’t believe evidence based medicine until the evidence has been cleaned up from the corrupting influence of commercial interests.

Financial conflicts of interest (COI), also known as gifts to doctors, is a well accepted practice. A national survey in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2007 shows that 94% of physicians had ties to the pharmaceutical industry. This gravy train only rides in one direction. From Big Pharma to the wallets of doctors. Sure Big Pharma can simply pay doctors directly, and it does plenty of that. It’s no surprise that medical students with more exposure to pharmaceutical reps develop a more positive attitude towards them. Many medical schools have limited exposure of medical students in response, but declined to get off the gravy train themselves. There is a simple relationship between how prominent a physician is (more articles published -- almost always academic doctors and professors) and how much money they take from Big Pharma. *Mo prominent = mo money.* Further, there is a ‘clear and strong link’ between taking industry money and minimizing the risk of side effects of medications. What, you thought people teach at prestigious institutions like universities for the good of mankind? Maybe that’s why they went there, but that’s not why they stay. They came for the science. They stayed for the money.



NEJM: A National Survey of Physician-Industry Relationships
www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMsa064508

Medical student exposure to and attitudes about pharmaceutical companies.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20672554

Association between industry affiliation and position on cardiovascular risk with rosiglitazone: cross sectional systematic review.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20299696

So here’s a damning list of all the problems of EBM:
1. Selective Publication
2. Rigged outcomes
3. Advertorials
4. Reprint Revenues
5. Bribery of Journal Editors
6. Publication Bias
7. Financial Conflicts of Interests

When the evidence base of medicine is bought and paid for, people die. Unfortunately, doctors and universities have been willing participants in this game of killing for profit. We need to end it now. End the corruption of the universities. Stop the bribery of doctors. Stay tuned, the non-profit Public Health Collaboration, currently based in the UK, but soon encompassing Canada, Ireland, USA, and Australia is gearing up to tackle this issue of corruption in medical science.

The PHC Conference 2018 will be held in London at the Royal College of General Practitioners in May!
phcuk.org/

For more, check this video trailer:
THIS TALK WILL CHANGE/SAVE YOUR LIFE:


www.facebook.com/NathanGillOfficial/videos
/2134121280141545/






Dr. Fung is a Toronto based kidney specialist, having graduated from the University of Toronto and finishing his medical specialty at the University of California, Los Angeles in 2001. He is the author of the bestsellers ‘The Obesity Code’ and ‘The Complete Guide to Fasting’. He has pioneered the use of therapeutic fasting for weight loss and type 2 diabetes reversal in his IDM clinic.


How we have been lied to by Big Pharma (YouTube video)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlHGJoYpBqM&t=295s





Dr. Fung's Blog
idmprogram.com/blog/














...and I loved this article almost MORE:
(I can't wait to read the book)

Why I'm Giving Up on Preventative Care - How contemporary Medicine I Testing Us to Death
lithub.com/barbara-ehrenreich-why-im-givin
g-up-on-preventative-care/









...and then there was this: BUSTED!
www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-i
s-curing-patients-a-sustainable-busine
ss-model.html


Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: 'Is curing patients a sustainable business model?'

Goldman Sachs analysts attempted to address a touchy subject for biotech companies, especially those involved in the pioneering "gene therapy" treatment: cures could be bad for business in the long run.

"Is curing patients a sustainable business model?" analysts ask in an April 10 report entitled "The Genome Revolution."

"The potential to deliver 'one shot cures' is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies," analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. "While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow."

Richter cited Gilead Sciences' treatments for hepatitis C, which achieved cure rates of more than 90 percent. The company's U.S. sales for these hepatitis C treatments peaked at $12.5 billion in 2015, but have been falling ever since. Goldman estimates the U.S. sales for these treatments will be less than $4 billion this year, according to a table in the report.

"GILD is a case in point, where the success of its hepatitis C franchise has gradually exhausted the available pool of treatable patients," the analyst wrote. "In the case of infectious diseases such as hepatitis C, curing existing patients also decreases the number of carriers able to transmit the virus to new patients, thus the incident pool also declines … Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise."

The analyst didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

The report suggested three potential solutions for biotech firms:

"Solution 1: Address large markets: Hemophilia is a $9-10bn WW market (hemophilia A, B), growing at ~6-7% annually."

"Solution 2: Address disorders with high incidence: Spinal muscular atrophy (SMA) affects the cells (neurons) in the spinal cord, impacting the ability to walk, eat, or breathe."

"Solution 3: Constant innovation and portfolio expansion: There are hundreds of inherited retinal diseases (genetics forms of blindness) … Pace of innovation will also play a role as future programs can offset the declining revenue trajectory of prior assets."

emoticon emoticon emoticon





Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/15/2018 (22:58)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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4/11/18 9:23 P

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Leia, I appreciate your take on Labs... that's exactly how I feel. I'm going to remember this: "what are you recommending we do in response to the potential outcomes?"

I also really like what you're doing with the fasting... slowly figuring out how to best respond to what your body is telling you in the context of what you're hoping to get out of it.

Something to remember is that no matter how often or long you fast, every fast will be different because every time you fast, you change the metabolic dynamics of your body. I would absolutely agree that "re-feeding is less urgent" with each successive fast, and my macros keep changing, too... I'm personally watching for a point where I can increase carbs without repercussion from my very low current limit. I'd REALLY like my body to stop over-reacting when a carb rears it's head, LOL.

This fast for me is really interesting... I keep moving in an out of great/rough... this past week was rough (moody, inflamed, higher-than-they-should be BG levels, lower energy, some disrupted sleep) to the point where I was convinced it was time to stop only to wake up this morning right as rain and raring to keep going forward. I think every fast calls forth some aspect of healing, and as long as you aren't actually hungry, mentally exhausted, or feeling unwell, it's okay to persevere... right now I've decided if I break my fast it will be in the morning and sleep on the decision. So far, when morning comes, I feel the need to continue.


Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/11/2018 (21:28)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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I can identify with some of your attitude about dr labs, Ramona. My first question to a dr. recommending is what would we do with the outcome? If I'm not going to act on the results of a lab (e.g., statins, insulin) then I see no reason to do it in the first place if I already know what I need to be working on. I've been recently self-debating how often to do maintenance CBCs.

I closed a 42 hr fast today. I did my first 40ish last month and this is my second this month. I think I'll keep to working my 16-20 dailies working toward one meal a day and work these 40s every 2 weeks if/as it feels right. I started in mentally open to trying this one longer, but it was a first rough one for whatever reasons. I learned more about my body signaling, and it leaves me focused on continuing to dial in on my ideal macros. Refeeding was less 'urgent' feeling and I'm closing the day's 6-hr eat window satisfied at the low end of my macro ranges; that will be my count for the big success of this round.

She believed she could so she did.


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Yes... my number days, and my days fasted (water-only) don't match, because my number days represent the days for which I've been recommitted to deliberately eliminating excess body fat (after my 18 month hiatus), while I've only been water-fasted for 30 (today) of those days... and a full-on water-only fast wasn't part of my initial plan. I just followed my body into it.

My first two weeks were focused on getting back solidly into ketosis, reducing my BG levels, and making sure I was burning fat consistently, before attempting any sort of fasting. I personally don't believe that extended fasting before one is fully keto-adapted is the best idea. Fasting from a keto-adapted position has advantages/protections that fasting from a glucose-dependent position doesn't. I was IFing for the better part of every day for YEARS (and readily metabolically flexible) before I attempted any sort of longer fast.


emoticon
Okay... the poster below asked a bunch of questions and then edited them out (am I having blood work done, what to make of blood test results, how to determine a course for healing), which now makes the following appear really random... but I'm going to leave the answer here none-the-less, as I think the questions are good ones to ask and consider when embarking on a healing journey.

emoticon
I haven't had any blood work done for over a year, and I have no plans of having any done for some time at this juncture, at least not until I am at goal weight and my weight has remained stable for at least 6 months.

What would be the point? I have no intention of changing what I'm doing, and I really have no burning need to get into yet another fruitless argument with a medical professional that has never offered me anything more than platitudes, pills, and outdated science (the lipid hypothesis is dead, LOL!).

Unless I can find a functional medicine practitioner to work with me... or a doctor who supports keto/paleo (I'm always looking for one)... there really is no point because weight loss, and the sort of physical changes I'm experiencing, does weird things to blood work that the conventional medical doctor can't understand, or even accurately interpret (there's a post on page two of this thread having to do with interpreting blood tests).

Personally (within the system by which I'm bound), I've come to see blood tests for health concerns as being very similar to the scale for weight loss... good for observing trends over time and within context, but not definitive in of themselves in any given moment.

If I feel seriously unwell and compromised in some way with respect to my health, I will definitely see a doctor without hesitation, but I feel great, overall. As I've said many, MANY times on this thread, I trust the wisdom of my body, and my body has never let me down... unlike every doctor I've ever seen.



As for all of your questions, BERRY, unfortunately no one can answer them for you. It all comes down to who/what you believe, and who/what you trust in the context of a solid general approach. Yes, there are many approaches to a great many things, but that doesn't make every approach prudent, optimal, or even truly useful... and I don't think cherry-picking from among disciplines in an attempt to more quickly address particular/specific symptoms works very well either (muddies the waters and creates confusion).

My personal approach has always been to find the people who are achieving what I ideally want for myself, and then do what they do. *OVER TIME* and with consistency/full commitment to my chosen overall approach (everything I do is very deliberate in the context of one overall approach... paleo/nutritional intervention/functional medicine) this has born out, and has served me very well. It's literally taken years, but the improvements to my health are consistent and always moving forward, as a result... and in the context of my lifetime, these years are but a moment, and well worth it.






Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/13/2018 (12:01)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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emoticon Curiously...your day #'s & info. don't seem to line up?! Are you on day #28 of water fasting?

emoticon

Edited by: BERRY4 at: 4/13/2018 (00:08)
"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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I'm taking my blood values at the same times every day.

For interest/reference, BG standards:

FASTING:
-- Normal: 3.9 - 5.5 mmol/L (70 - 100 mg/dl)
(on extended fasts, this value can drop much lower without any loss of function or harm)
-- Impaired: 5.6 - 6.9 mmol/L (101 - 125 mg/dl)
-- Diabetic: greater than 7.0 mmol/L (126 mg/dl)

POSTPRANDIAL:
-- Normal: less than 7.8 mmol/L (less than 140 mg/dl)
-- Impaired: 7.8 - 11 mmol/L (140 - 196 mg/dl)
-- Diabetic: greater than 11 mmol/L (greater than 196 mg/dl)

My daily values for Blood Glucose (BG), Blood Ketones (BK), and Glucose/Ketone Index (G/K-I) are an average for the day.

The goal is to keep BG at the low end of normal as much as possible and in the normal fasted range with exercise, BK at least at 3.0 and my G/K-I at 1, or lower.

...which is sort of funny to say, because my body is going to do what it's going to do. Being completely water-only fasted is a true test of metabolic health, which is why more and more doctors are using fasted glucose as the primary indicator of metabolic health/impairment.

This round of fasting, my glucose dropped more quickly and lower than it ever has, and my ketones rose higher and faster, which I'm taking a sign of metabolic healing. Go ME!






April 13/18
Day 32 water-only fasted.
18.4 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 5.0 mmol/L
BK - 3.2 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.5




April 12/18
Day 31 water-only fasted.
18.0 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.6 mmol/L
BK - 5.0 mmol/L
G/K-I - .9




April 11/18
Day 30 water-only fasted.
17.6 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.6 mmol/L
BK - 4.7 mmol/L
G/K-I - .9




April 10/18
Day 29 water-only fasted.
17.4 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 5.1 mmol/L
BK - 3.8 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.3




April 9/18
Day 28 water-only fasted.
17.2 lbs. eliminated! (It moved!)

BG - 4.9 mmol/L
BK - 3.1 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.5





April 8/18
Day 27 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated! (still stuck!)

BG - 4.8 mmol/L
BK - 4.0 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.2




April 7/18
Day 26 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated! (still stuck!)

BG - 4.9 mmol/L
BK - 3.5 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.4




April 6/18
Day 25 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated! (I seem to be stuck again)

BG - 5.1 mmol/L
BK - 4.2 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.2

BG trending UP for the last few days... seems a healing event is in progress... obvious inflammation present. I wish there was more information available on what sort of toxicity can occur with fat metabolization. Anything fat-soluble is being released, so it's not surprising that there would be periods of detox with fat loss.




April 5/18
Day 24 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.8 mmol/L
BK - 4.8 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.0




April 4/18
Day 23 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.6 mmol/L
BK - 5.5 mmol/L
G/K-I - .8

So, today is apparently a healing day... joints are a bit inflamed (achey...weather could be a factor... pain not as intense as it can be, or has been in the past), BG is trending higher (likely cortisol related), retaining some fluid, and a bit head-achey. I'm upping my electrolytes/water (I'm not use I drank enough yesterday... I was busy and not paying attention). Additionally, my cortisol is up (stressful day), which always has an immediate impact on inflammatory factors.

Other than this, I feel really good... mental clarity (focused), joyful and relaxed, not hungry (and no intrusive thoughts of food), and the fast continues.




April 3/18
Day 22 water-only fasted.
16.6 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.5 mmol/L
BK - 5.5 mmol/L
G/K-I - .8

Great day: good numbers, feeling really good mentally, emotionally, physically. Continuing on.




April 2/18
Day 21 water-only fasted.
16.0 lbs. eliminated for the month of MARCH!

BG - 4.0 mmol/L
BK - 6.3 mmol/L
G/K-I - .6

Still FASTED, LOL! I woke up today REFRESHED with no thoughts of food! All intrusive thoughts are gone.

So, now I've confirmed for myself that the simple desire to eat, without unmistakable physical hunger, is no reason to end a fast.

I'm also renewed in my motivation by some physical changes that surprise me. On average, the scale moves much more slowly than it would for the average person under similar circumstances (probably indicative of the continued need for metabolic healing... hormones still need to get themselves sorted further), so I'm always watching for other changes to keep myself encouraged.

What I noticed this weekend is that the appearance of the fatty areas on the backs of my arms and my thighs are transforming (very different than the fat on the rest of my body). I've long suspected that I have a mild case of Lipedema: "a long-term (chronic) condition where there's an abnormal build-up of fat cells in the legs, thighs and buttocks, and sometimes in the arms [which contributes greatly to the disproportionate look of my body]. Typically it gets worse over time [it has], pain may be present [true for me], and people bruise easily [very much so]. The cause is unknown but is believed to involve genetics and hormonal factors." A low-carb diet is suggested to manage it, and it has helped. However just the last few days, I've noticed a dramatic improvement... my arms have smoothed right out, and my thighs are about half improved.

Keep in mind, I've been this weight before with no visible improvement to how these areas of my body looked, so this is amazing to me.

This alone is enough to keep me going with this fast for as long as I can. Something immeasurable IS, in fact, healing, and I'm going to take all I can get! ONWARD!





April 1/18
Day 20 water-only fasted.
15.6 lbs. eliminated! (still creeping down)

BG - 4.2 mmol/L
BK - 5.8 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

HAPPY EASTER! Today was really interesting. We got together with family for a our usual Easter celebration: traditional foods (I'm Ukrainian), wine flowing freely, desserts aplenty... and I sipped my mineral water, and kept on fasting.

I have to admit, it felt a bit weird, and I did tell a small lie (upset stomach) to keep attention off my plate, and conversation off me/food. I didn't find it exactly difficult to abstain from the food, but by the end of the day, my thoughts became somewhat intrusive... just one bite won't hurt... I wonder if that tastes as good as it looks... etc.... and by the end of the celebration, I was TIRED of my brain nagging me, LOL.

During past fasts, I read these sorts of thoughts as the beginning of the end of my fasting period, and even though I had no physical hunger today, I was preparing myself to stop my fast.

However, instead of just eating and being done with it (because I want to choose, as opposed to give in), I told myself that if I still felt 'done' in the morning I would break my fast.
Rather, I reviewed my reasons for doing this fast in the first place, and asked myself if they were still valid (they are).
I gave myself a huge pat on the back for getting through a potentially difficult situation with grace, good humour, and being fully present (I actually now enjoy social occasions so much more when I'm not juggling food).
I asked my husband if he thought I was done (he said no... I seemed to be doing really great... HAPPY), and he told me how proud he was of me (so much more rewarding than food).
...and then I went to sleep, easily, and slept deeply. I'm learning more and more how water, sleep, rest, fun, cuddles, intellectual stimulation, a walk will just as easily satisfy what I used to think was hunger, as will food (priceless). True hunger is not as prevalent as I once thought it was, and the bar for satisfying my hunger is much higher (quality over quantity is critical... eating just anything to quell hunger is no longer an option, and no longer necessary... having fasted at length, I know that hunger is NEVER an emergency).

One of the things that fasting teaches you is how deep the well of your reserves are.... mental, spiritual, emotional and physical. Mine are apparently so much deeper than that for which I have ever given myself credit. This is my true Easter gift to myself.





March 31/18
Day 19 water-only fasted.
15.4 lbs. eliminated! (another little smidge)

BG - 4.0 mmol/L
BK - 6.5 mmol/L
G/K-I - .6

Another GREAT day! I prepared Easter food all day for family celebrations, and didn't even taste. That was actually hard, not because I wanted to eat the food, but because my palate is such an integral part of how I cook! I felt completely handicapped, LOL... though my daughter and Mr. didn't mind filling in. I guess I did okay, because everyone said the food was great.

One of the things I personally marvel at with regard to fasting is how I can be intimately involved with food, yet have no desire to eat it. I can't even find words to describe how empowering this is.

Years ago I can recall wanting to fast for religious reasons, especially at Easter, and then feeling so helpless and ashamed when I would fail time and time again. I felt powerless and somehow broken (and I WAS broken... metabolically). The fact that I can now be fully fasted, and involved with food all day... cook meals that will delight my family, shop for and organize food all day long to make sure everyone else's nutritional needs are covered, and not feel resentment, or longing, or frustration... well that to me is a real achievement, and worth every hurdle to get here. I feel like I truly have control over the place food occupies in my life.





March 30/18
Day 18 water-only fasted.
15.4 lbs. eliminated! (dropped another smidge... dare I get hopeful?)

BG - 3.9 mmol/L
BK - 6.5 mmol/L
G/K-I - .6

Stellar day today! Seems like all systems are back where they should be! And I had company as everyone around me was fasting, too, for Good Friday!





March 29/18
Day 17 water-only fasted.
14.6 lbs. eliminated! (the scale moved a smidge, LOL)

BG - 4.6 mmol/L
BK - 5.9 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

So, a friend wondered if somehow there's glucose in my fat... and, impossible as it is given the science, I'd already gone there myself... and under the circumstances, it really does seem the most logical question to ask! I googled it a bunch to see if it could be, and got NADA.

The first problem is, I'm not diabetic... LOTS of answers for diabetics... but the information doesn't relate to me because I'm not taking insulin, or medication, and my baseline BG is very different. I mean, really, most diabetics would be ecstatic to have a fasting BG level of 6.7. I'm just aggravated that I know, for a fact, that as long as my BG is that high I will not lose weight, no matter how high my BKs are, and I seriously question the point in fasting at all if that's going to be the case. I don't see how anything good can be happening if my BG is sitting that high for any reason.

My biggest problem is that I seem to remain a medical anomaly (I've always been so)... and, realistically, who has ever tested both BG and BK throughout an extended fast... or even documented faithfully (I can't find anyone)? Perhaps this is normal at this stage of the fasting game.... some sort of healing crisis? Some sort of final gasp (glycogen dump) on the part of my healing liver?

So, I'm choosing to trust the process for now (I feel too good to do otherwise)... and I do trust my body. I've ALWAYS known when something is truly wrong. I, unfortunately, have LOTS of experience with something being wrong in my body.

The only thing I do worry about, and it really is the only other option, is that my body suddenly catabolized a chunk of muscle to produce that glucose via gluconeogenesis, because I'm not burning fat as effectively as my body needs it to. That worries me tremendously.

HEY! HOLD THE PRESSES! I think I just figured out a BETTER explanation (this is how journaling helps)... AUTOPHAGY! My body perhaps just gobbled up some damaged cells (PROTEIN!) and the glucose in my blood is the result. I say this because Dr. Fung and Joel Fuhrman both maintain that the body will consume fat stores for energy and leave muscle alone until fat stores are depleted (I have a LONG way to go) BECAUSE while this is going on autophagy cleans up all of the damage in the body (cells... which are protein), which is also partly why fasting is muscle-sparing/building.

...which may also explain why/how healing is necessary before weight loss... and perhaps why I don't lose a ton of weight when fasting... which simply reaffirms my determination to keep fasting... and keep googling, LOL.





March 28/18
Day 16 water-only fasted.
14.0 lbs. eliminated! (6 days STUCK here)

BG - 4.7 mmol/L
BK - 5.4 mmol/L
G/K-I - .9

Today feels like an abject failure... I'm still fasting, and I still feel physically great... in fact I feel especially good today on a physical level. Mentally and emotionally, I'm a bit of a mess. Why? Because I have questions but no answers. After 10 days of fantastic (and expected/predictable) numbers, THIS:
-----I am on the 6th day of no weight loss, while consuming NOTHING for 16 days. WHY?
-----I'm consuming only water for 16 days now, and my blood glucose is trending HIGH... higher than it is normally, and much higher than it should be for weight loss (BG goes UP, ketones/fat burning goes DOWN). WHY?
-----Obviously my liver is dumping glucose into my blood. WHY? ...and where's it coming from?
-----Upon checking my BG at my regular time just after preparing supper for my family (NO tasting), and it was 6.7 mmol/L!!! SERIOUSLY?!!! After 16 days of water fasting my BG is at the high end of the impaired range for fasting (and it makes me wonder if you CAN gain weight just by looking at/smelling food)?!!! WHY? HOW?
-----Muscles can only store about 500 grams of glycogen (roughly equivalent to 2,000 calories... a little more than 1 day's worth). The liver can only store about 100 grams of glycogen. There is no way that, after 16 days of water-only, there is any stored glycogen in my body. Is there?
-----Excess glucose beyond this storage capacity is stored as FAT (and glycogen isn't stored in fat). As far as I know, fat is converted to ketones for fuel, so if I need energy, my ketones should be rising, NOT my blood glucose. So, WHY?

So, now... (emotionally) I want to dive into a bowl of pasta out of spite (and I prepared gluten-free pasta for my family for supper... I even had my Mr. do all of the tasting), but because my hormones are apparently the only thing working for me right now, and my mind is running clear on ketones, and I'm NOT hungry, MENTALLY I'm not having it, and I'm sticking to my fasting guns (so apparently ANGER and disappointment are emotional triggers for me... good to know... never been this clear/obvious before).

...and I'm googling like a fiend to try find answers. So far, nothing. SIGH.

The biggest problem is that all available information is based on data gleaned from following diabetics, and I'm NOT diabetic... so, I'm left with WHY?

...and YES! I WOULD like a little cheese with my whine, LOL!





March 27/18
Day 15 water-only fasted.
14.0 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.6 mmol/L
BK - 5.9 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

Fasting is going great! I'm learning so much about myself and my relationship with eating. Right now I'm just praying that all the health improvement claims aren't exaggerated, LOL. I feel great, but it's so hard to know if anything is actually happening on the inside... because, honestly, there isn't anything else that makes this a worthwhile exercise.

People all over the place are telling me how fantastic I look... how I'm glowing... did I do something different with my hair... asking what I use on my skin... it's sort of wild (and the furrows on my forehead have disappeared and all of my face skin has tightened up).

And since I have no clear inclination (or indication from my body) to stop and eat, for now I'll just keep going.





March 26/18
Day 14 water-only fasted.
14.0 lbs. eliminated! (still stuck)

BG - 4.8 mmol/L
BK - 5.3 mmol/L
G/K-I - .8

I'm learning that the greatest threat to my extended fast (surprisingly) at this point may well be boredom... it's like eating the same thing every day in reverse. I'm not at all hungry, but I'm a little tired of not being hungry, LOL. Does that make sense?

I'm also beginning to learn a lot of other things... the foremost of which is to not be complacent about this process. Healing isn't linear, and even while I feel good, it would be a mistake to not be generous and gentle with myself. I felt great today, but late afternoon, I was just tired so I laid down and had an unexpected, deep, refreshing nap... and I feel renewed, not just rested.

It causes me to wonder how many times in the past food has been a replacement for what I really needed: sleep, water, fun, a sense of connection (joining people when they're eating and you're not is an interesting experience), intimacy, quiet, comfort.... something I'll continue to ponder as this journey continues.





March 25/18
Day 13 water-only fasted... officially my longest fast to date.
14.0 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.3 mmol/L
BK - 5.4 mmol/L
G/K-I - .8

Today I'm annoyed that the scale hasn't budged for three days, LOL. Once a whoosher, always a whoosher, apparently... and my BG was trending up (higher normal) for some reason. Odd when I'm not eating, but it goes to show that there are a lot of different forces in the body over which we have no control. That actually makes me feel better about a lot of things. We spend so much time blaming ourselves for any and all difficulties eliminating body fat, and CICO people delight in rubbing salt into the wound, when the truth really is that many aspects of weight loss really can be out of our control... because OBVIOUSLY my CALORIES OUT currently far exceeds my CALORIES IN.

...and if you're just now joining the party, don't get started on the whole 'starvation mode' business. That only applies to prolonged calorie restriction scenarios. Fasting actually raises metabolism. There are many resources in this thread that can educate you to the truths of fasting. Please read them before you decide to comment.

Here. I'll make it easy:

Fasting Myths
idmprogram.com/fasting-myths-part-5/

How to Fix your Broken Metabolism by doing the Exact Opposite
idmprogram.com/fix-broken-metabolism/





March 24/18
Day 12 water-only fasted.
14.0 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.2 mmol/L
BK - 6.2 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

A really good day... appreciating the mental focus I'm able to retain. Today I got to flex my fasting muscles... I sat through a meal in my favourite restaurant and sipped my Pelegrino mineral water, while everyone else had truly delicious meals (Magarita pizza, CALAMARI with Tzaziki, beautiful salads, and Greek ribs)... and, while mentally I knew the food would taste so good, and I was even able to talk about it all, emotionally I was completely distanced, and I wasn't hungry. It was sort of a cool place to be. I felt truly empowered, I enjoyed myself, and I didn't eat. I have some new thoughts about hunger and fasting, but I don't have time to talk about that now. Hopefully later this week I can elaborate.






March 23/18
Day 11 water-only fasted.
14.0 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 3.8 mmol/L
BK - 6.0 mmol/L
G/K-I - .6

Great day... nothing out of the ordinary... unless you count the weird dreams last night... very entertaining!






March 22/18
Day 10 water-only fasted.
13 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 3.8 mmol/L
BK - 5.9 mmol/L
G/K-I - .6

Absolutely AWESOME day! The "bad humours" of yesterday are gone, and I feel GREAT... and my numbers are stellar. Physical changes continue: skin glowing, eyes bright, mind clear, energy high, joint injuries healing, no visible bloat, fantastic sleep, healing metabolism. My longest fast to date has been 12 days. Today I feel like this can go on MUCH longer. When I started this time around, I really didn't have a number in mind (just longer than the last one), but now I'm really excited to see how this plays out.






March 21/18
Day 9 water-only fasted.
11 lbs. eliminated!

BG - 4.3 mmol/L
BK - 5.6 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

While I'm feeling terrific otherwise, something that's weird at the moment is that I suddenly seem to be going through some sort of emotional detox (which is actually possible with an extended fast). I'm very aware that what I'm feeling is completely unrelated to my immediate reality (everything is great)... and as long as I'm busy and engaged with my present, I'm completely fine (joyful, at peace, invested), but when I find myself alone and not otherwise occupied I am angry, profoundly SAD (though not depressed), full of doubts, anxious... and I want to run away... or into a meal, LOL. This has never happened before, and it has a me bit off balance. I'm doing my best to honour it and give it room to evolve and speak to me. It's crossed my mind that perhaps certain gut bugs are releasing toxins (die off) that are messing with my brain (gut brain axis stuff). It's interesting and a bit distressing all at once, LOL. As I'm not hungry and my numbers are awesome, we'll just see how things go for the next few days.

A friend said this to me today: "I'm thinking you have shared about a LOT of pain in the years of growing up and beyond. Injuries. Hurts. Attacks. Anger. I just read that our "brain" is also in our cells. If that is maybe possible, then your body may be seeking to HEAL from the deep pain and wounds of the past. It seems both entirely possible AND normal AND healthy."

I think she may be right, and I'm going to see where this goes.

A really interesting read:
The Fasting Series (one woman's experience with extended fasting)
personalexcellence.co/blog/fasting-series/







March 20/18
Day 8 water-only fasted.
9.9 lbs. eliminated! So, annoying! According to the scale I gained a lb.... I know it's not real, but it BUGS ME anyway, LOL.

BG - 4.0 mmol/L
BK - 5.3 mmol/L
G/K-I - .7

I bought some really great flavour-infused sea salts yesterday, and I think I enjoyed them too much... I'm suddenly retaining water. My rings are tight for the first time in weeks. I'm also a bit grumpy today when I'm not constructively engaged in something... feels like 'bad humors'... an emotional detox of sorts. Doesn't seem to be fast/food related. I still prepared food for my family and had no issues, and no hunger. Keeping an eye on it.






March 19/18
Day 7 water-only fasted.
11.0 lbs. eliminated (5.4 lbs. this past week)!

BG - 3.7 mmol/L
BK - 3.4 mmol/L
G/K-I - 1.0

Feeling terrific!







Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/14/2018 (00:06)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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40 hr Fast-- My longest fast to date, I could of gone longer but my sister wanted to take me to a steak & veggie lunch.. Umm OK!! Haa-- I was sitting in front of boxes of doughnuts and other pastries but I wasn't even tempted... I love that feeling, working out while fasting past 36 hrs felt great!! How are you feeling?

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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Look at you go with the 36 hours... if you feel good tomorrow, just keep going! Catch me if you can!
emoticon

Chris Kresser went commercial pretty fast, but what he did leave for open access is gold. Glad to help you find it again.

Thanks again for the coffee recipe!
emoticon


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Great Stuff!!! I'm heading into 36 hrs of Fasting!! this is my longest fast so far. My body is totally loving it right now.. lol-- I love the info you posted abt the Salt, and the Gerd!! I remember listening to Chris Kressor podcast and him mentioning his free ebook on the subject. I wanted to look it up but totally forgot abt it!! emoticon for reminding me~

Pepper Corn/Turmeric Ratio into Coffee Beans Grind: 1/2 Tsp PCorn. 1 Tsp Tumeric... *sometimes i'll add 1/2 tsp of Cinnamon.. Once its all grinds and brews you can't really taste the Tumeric/Pepper maybe a lil bit of the cinnamon! I love it and take it black.. emoticon emoticon

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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Aww...thank you so much, Kathleen. Your support, sharing and comments mean a lot to me. Stop by any time!
emoticon


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Ramona I just found your fasting journal. I didn't realize you were presently doing a long fast. I have enjoyed reading your progress. You definitely have good information and the support of your DH which is really important to follow it safely.
I know from experience that what you say is true. The longer you are fasting the less you think or care about food. I look forward to reading more of your fasting journey. Since the first day I found your Paleo group I have been inspired by you. Good luck and stay well.

Kathleen624 in PA
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall - Confucius


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Read this today and will start adding this in EVERY day. (Last fall, a Naturopath gave me some large Himalayan salt crystals & said: "Hey, put this in water and use it." -- Without much background, I haven't taken it daily/regularly...)

But after reading this outlay from Wellness Mama: well it certainly explains a LOT for me!
emoticon
wellnessmama.com/12158/make-sole/

"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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You're welcome! And I so hear you re: "Seriously I wish it didn't make as much sense". I wish I had a dime for every time I had to adjust feeling just that way.

I don'[t know who Dr. Redding is (I'll be googling as soon as I finish typing) but you may want o consider these resources before you eliminate salt... salt is critical to fasting successfully, and to a ketogenic approach:



One of the many medical 'sacred cows' that a ketogenic/Paleo nutritional approach challenges is the conventional view regarding salt. Unless the salt is coming from processed food, or is not pure, there really is no need to be concerned (this is why Paleo is such a powerful ally for keto... no processed, or very minimally processed food). I'm a case in point... before Paleo/keto my blood pressure was out of control (likely because I was mineral-deficient overall). As soon as I switched to pure salt, no more BP problems, even when I went keto and increased my salt intake dramatically... in fact, it was my hormone specialist who insisted I increase my salt consumption. Usually, if someone following a keto nutrition plan is experiencing any sort of an issue, not enough salt is usually at the root of it. All natural salts have trace minerals, though some more than others. Shaking UP the Salt Myth series is must-read for everyone concerned about salt, as is this first article geared specifically to KETO:


Sodium and the Ketogenic Person
www.ketovangelist.com/guest-post-coach-kim
mi-talks-sodium-ketogenic-person/


Shaking Up the Salt Myth
chriskresser.com/specialreports/salt/

A GUIDE TO SALTS
paleoleap.com/guide-to-salts/

How To Make Sole: A Himalayan Salt Infusion for Health and Wellness wellnessmama.com/12158/make-sole/

Mineral Supplementation on a Keto Diet... Is It Necessary?
www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/supplemen
ts


Grok Didn’t Take Supplements, So Why Should I?
www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-t
o-supplementation/



...I'd appreciate knowing what I'm saying that makes sense to you. It's in these conversations that I learn and refine my own thinking/approach!

Have a great evening!



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/9/2018 (22:49)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Thank you, Ramona. I keep coming back to your messages because many times you say what I am thinking. As I read this evening after listening to Dr. Reddy's theories. He makes sense, am I ready to jump into losing salt and caffeine, maybe in a day or two. Shifting some thoughts as to where I need to head. Seriously I wish it didn't make as much sense. Adapting my diet once again. Here I go.....

KISS-Keep It Simple Sweetie!
Have you ever wished for different?
Now is the time to make it happen.





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emoticon
emoticon


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Understood, could be...my mis-stating. And I will continue stopping in, to also cheer you on, you're doing amazing things, that you share your learning is icing on the cake!
emoticon

She believed she could so she did.


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Glad the share was helpful... keep in mind I'm not certain die-off is the underlying issue, but it's the only explanation I can find that makes any sense. H. pylori is the one gut bug that "fights back" when you go after it.

It's nice to hear that another's experience isn't all that different from my own. Make me seem/feel less "out there." Feel free to drop in any time and let me (and all of the lurkers... I'm pretty sure there are some, LOL) know how your own fasting experiences are going, and what you're noticing with regard to resolution of issues, and improved well-being. I'd be really interested to know!
emoticon


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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4/9/18 5:41 P

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THANKS Ramona! Oh, yes, thooose guys! I found the thread and I'll revisit them some, just understanding that die off is the source is a huge help.

It doesn't sound weird to me AT ALL to me that not eating is so much easier than maneuvering food. It's actually the same direction I've been heading. I enjoy the freedom of less eat times that keto/LC lets me get to, I feel better and better during my increasing fasts on IF, extending into longer fasts feels like the most natural thing to try to unravel my health and food issues.

She believed she could so she did.


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THIS: "I was struggling and frustrated last week banging my head against old walls and increased inflammation-related chronic issues thinking it wasn't fair I had to be so 'perfect' to make any progress at all especially with at least 80 lbs to shed."

AMEN, Sister! It is so not fair, and I've spent the majority of the last 10 years feeling this way. It can be so wearying and disheartening to spend so much TIME completely invested, yet feel like you're still just spinning your wheels (and the weight just keeps hanging on and ON).

Hence my current fasting experiment. It may sound terribly weird, but eating nothing at all is much easier than constantly attempting to juggle balls you can't even see, LOL. Also, if this extended fast can resolve a significant number of issues (many of which I'm pretty sure I haven't even yet identified), this is reason enough to continue.

I'm really happy to hear that sharing my own journey has comforted you and given you a renewed sense of purpose. I've found it very lonely walking the paths I walk, and this is exactly why I share so openly. If someone else can feel less crazy and alone as they struggle just by reading here, it's worth it all.

...and hey, as long as we're talking about issues as they relate to fasting/keto no need to worry about hijacking.

Increased heartburn is something that is actually a very common experience for so many as they get into serious keto/fasting. Obesity and chronic health issues all have some degree of gut dysbiosis in common, and gut dysbiosis is the primary contributor to heartburn/GERD (which is a actually a result of too little/weak stomach acid, not too much). Also, if your gallbladder and liver are under-functioning (true for many people who are obese/chronically inflammed), you will have trouble digesting the increased fat, which initially exacerbates heartburn/GERD. If you push through it does resolve.

I have some degree of heartburn with every fast at the beginning. This one gave me severe heartburn for almost 2 weeks... which tells me that whatever overgrows in my body when I veer away from a ketogenic nutritional approach (I strongly suspect H. Pylori) is extremely resilient.

Unfortunately, it's been so long ago that I did all of my SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth) research, so I can't readily pull up specific resources for you. If I do remember, I will pass them on to you.

In the meantime, at the time that we went down the SIBO rabbit hole (this was our second life/health-changing adjustment as a family), I created a thread on the Paleo team... it's a good place for you to start:

SCD Diet: Paleo with a twist...
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messagebo
ard_thread.asp?board=0x28224x56471597



I also know that even before SCD, I started with Chris Kresser with regard to dealing with my own out-of-control Heartburn/GERD (and he specifically talks about H. Pylori in Part 3 of the series... may well be where I gained the most clarity and then applied it to my fasting /keto journey):

What Everybody Ought To Know (But Doesn’t) About Heartburn & GERD
(it's a six-part article... the links at the bottom lead you to the next installment)
chriskresser.com/what-everybody-ought-to-k
now-but-doesnt-about-heartburn-gerd/


...and he's put it all into one convenient FREE e-book... all you need to do is register on his site to gain access:


chriskresser.com/heartburn/



Come back and let me know how things go! I appreciate the conversation... it still gets lonely talking to myself, LOL!
emoticon



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/9/2018 (16:47)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Ramona, what you've written and offered here is a true treasure trove. Thank You!

I read through from start to now over the weekend and just... Wow. I'm familiar with many of the resources you cite from my own several years now of trying to unravel my own body yet am eager now to step back through your post links and read in context of the cited targets.

It happy-fascinates me (serendipity!) that we connected on here just as I was getting more into my own IF and experimenting with longer fasts from the low carb aspect having gotten over being shaken by some pretty awful health crashes trying to do them via juice fasting. I'd drug out my old copy of Fuhrman's Fasting and Eating for Health a few weeks ago to farm out his fasting wisdom despite having moved away from his diet recommendations for this body.

Without hijacking your thread with my details, I was struggling and frustrated last week banging my head against old walls and increased inflammation-related chronic issues thinking it wasn't fair I had to be so 'perfect' to make any progress at all especially with at least 80 lbs to shed. You and this have re-motivated me to buck up and stay diligent in finding my own answers. I too have a young DD that deserves me figuring this out.

I do have one source question about something you mentioned a while back
-- increased heartburn trying to up fats for keto macros and suspected H. Pylori die off. Do you have links to sources about this?

emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

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4/8/18 4:38 P

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You've got a point, LOL... though for me that "all the same" moment took about two weeks getting here.

...and yes, my copy of The Diabetes Code should be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait! I'm hoping there are some more specific answers with regard to insulin resistance... my arch nemesis.

Have a great day, too!



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/9/2018 (00:01)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Lol!! ok 25/40 all the same after 24 hrs!! Haaa-- Did you see Dr. Fung new book Diabetes Code? Realeased a few days ago! Always love his down to earth, simple explanations. It just clicks when he explains it!! Have a wonderful Sunday emoticon

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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4/8/18 12:06 P

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LOL! I still have a ways to go for 40 days... we'll see.
emoticon


Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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emoticon WOW, I'm just in total awe on your 40 day fast!!! Your Amazing!

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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4/7/18 12:21 P

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First of all, I'm still currently fasting... I'm adding my daily updates to the one post (at any given time scroll up/down and look for the blue numbered day pictures... though I'm behind... I'll update shortly)... day 35 keto, day 26 water-only fasting, and counting.

As for exercise... some days I have done (rebounder and weights), but most days I don't. I feel better when I don't. The reason I don't make focused exercise a priority is because it messes with my blood glucose (spikes it quite high), tanks my ketones, and my inflammatory response goes waayyy up. While this is good in some ways (dumping glucose), since I'm doing this to heal, this seems counter-productive, as fasting will accomplish the same thing is much less jarring way, without my having to feel unwell... and this has always been the case, not just since I started fasting.

I've also come to see that being really gentle and relaxed about this process is the better way to go. Healing happens more readily when the body is nurtured not tortured, LOL... and adding the stress of exercise, on top of the stress of fasting (both good stresses, but stress none-the-less) seems to be over-kill for my body. Exercise always has been, and much of the research coming out at this juncture supports the notion that while exercise is good for so many reasons (and once I'm at goal weight and my chronic health issues aren't so obvious, watch me go), it is often counter-productive for weight loss.

This doesn't mean I just sit on the couch all day, though... I'm a very active person, and I am in continuous motion all day being a mom, hefting groceries, cleaning house, running up and down stairs doing laundry, going to sports events, playing... and I do try to get outside each day for a walk in the fresh air and sunshine... good for my soul and body... and I won't shy away from an impromptu game of tag, or a good wrestle, LOL.

Bottom line, with the fasting my energy levels are much higher than prior to, so I am awake longer each day, more inclined to motion, and just naturally push myself physically, so along with fasting, I'm naturally more active.

I hope this answers your question!
emoticon


P.S. I loved Fried Green Tomatoes, too!
emoticon



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/9/2018 (13:56)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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4/7/18 9:49 A

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Ramona did you maintain any exercise during your fast?

KISS-Keep It Simple Sweetie!
Have you ever wished for different?
Now is the time to make it happen.





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Hey there, Berry!

Yeah... the forty days thing comes up a lot without much real "meat" to it. I'll keep you posted if I find anything, though.

I have a girlfriend here who is pretty solid on the forty-days idea. She's also read a lot more Dr. Fung than I have (and she's a nurse, so she's keeping a close eye on me), and based on my experiences so far, she supports continuing as long as possible. According to her, via Dr. Fung, these occasional glucose spikes I am having for no apparent reason (today and yesterday included) are deep cleansing of the glucose in my liver, and as long as I see this happening, and I feel fine fasting, I should do so because it's healing my liver in ways I wouldn't otherwise experience.

I'm glad to hear that you've got so much support for your fasting efforts. Go you! The more I do this, the more convinced I am that Hippocrates was right... let fasting be thy cure.

...and THANK YOU so much for the book link. I can't wait to read it! Now that I've had a chance to look at it, I think it's an interesting historical read.


I'll get back to about the other questions via email, okay?

emoticon






P.S. As for your Doc emphasizing that only 12 hours of fasting are required, keep in mind that any blood tests to do with BG will be skewed against you if fasting is longer than the required fasting window (rebound response)... or he just wanted to reassure you that there was no need to panic at the thought of not eating for an extended period of time, LOL! Little did he know!


Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/13/2018 (16:15)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Hey ladies! Nice to see you both, though as much I love seeing you, I'd just like to reiterate this is a personal Keto/fasting journal, and I'd really prefer that any conversation that doesn't deal with this focus be taken off-thread. And because I feel responsible for this thread in general, I'd also appreciate the opportunity to vet resources before they're added to the thread. I hope you understand. Thanks in advance.

emoticon



P.S. Before anyone takes the comment posted just below that with regard to iodine "It's well known that seaweeds are the best source" it would be best to do your own, and more research.

I'm not going to argue this here except to say that people have done great damage to themselves with that sort of advice. Here are are some other resources to get you started:








The Guide to Supplementing with Lugol's Iodine
(what I used to heal my own deficiency issues, and to eliminate the cysts in my own thyroid)
steppingstonesliving.com/wp-content/upload
s/2015/03/Guide-to-Supplementing-2015-
Rev2a.pdf




Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/9/2018 (18:45)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Berry4, I've been looking for the iodine answer for a long time and recently found the solutions. It's well known that seaweeds are the best source, but I found that I always forget to add it to my cooking. So recently I found the solutions with the seaweed snacks. They can be found at your local Asian grocery at much cheaper prices than Amazon. I eat one package a day and solve my iodine supplement for good.

www.amazon.com/Kims-Seaweed-Snacks-Nori-Ro
asted/dp/B01ECY8I1W/ref=sr_1_7_s_it?s=
grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1523060919&sr=1-7&
keywords=seaweed+snacks


Edited by: SKATER787 at: 4/6/2018 (20:46)
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The following seem like interesting reading...

"The Fasting Book" - The Complete Guide to Unlocking the Miracle of Fasting: Healing the Body, Sharpening the Mind, Energizing the Spirit -- by Kyle Faber


apache2.pum.edu.pl/~fasting/upton.pdf

The Fasting Cure --by Upton Sinclair

Upton Sinclair was not only a prolifc and much admired author, but also a follower of Bernarr MacFadden's Physical Culture movement (see his Physical Culture Cook Book, 1901) and a member of the editorial staff of Physical Culture Magazine. Dedicated to MacFadden, this 1911 volume advocates the benefits of systematic fasting in producing long-lasting health benefits.


"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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Glad to hear DH has your "six"! emoticon

All the research I did provided fairly limited material to reference / evaluate. -- Most of what I did find was tied to religious reasons & pretty much landed at 40 days as the long-term time frame.

I've knee-deep in trying to understand my food issues. -- As the acupuncturist said today (& the naturopath previously), when the gut reaches a certain point of healing, then you can begin introducing things to evaluate if it works or not for me. The acupuncturist actually suggested another period of fasting, and then trying ONE thing for 3 days before adding in another thing, and so on.

It's not waking me up per se, but something sent me to the bathroom all day on Wed??

At least my blood glucose # was noticeably improved IMO from all last year. -- The Dr. was kind of funny when I confirmed that I needed to be fasted before the blood tests that he ordered. (He emphasized--just over night--was all that was needed!)
emoticon
What can you tell me about salt-water cleansing for liver / gall bladder? How does one know if it would help? -- I was reading the info. from Dr. Axe re. this. (But constipation has RARELY ever been my issue.)

And a recent hair analysis indicated that I'm low in iodine. -- (Of course, blood testing wants your #'s to "fall off a cliff" before indicating a concern.) -- I've started taking a thyroid supplement w/ iodine. Any additional ideas?? (My thinning hair continues to be an issue; more again lately since fasting.)

I'm looking at fasting one day a week, 24-36 hrs, and then for 7 days before I go to the beach for my get-away. (I leave, 3 wks + 1 day from Sat.)
emoticon



Edited by: BERRY4 at: 4/6/2018 (02:21)
"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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Thanks, Berry. I appreciate the support and encouragement.

Mr.'s pretty tuned in to when I'm okay and when I'm not, and he'd be the first to tell me that I don't seem to be doing well, in the event that I'm not thinking clearly. He watches pretty closely.

As for knowing when I'm "done" I honestly don't know what that would look like with any specificity. Some things that come to mind:
--trouble concentrating, diminished mental focus
--prolonged moodiness (temper/snapishness)
--no energy, unable to meet the demands of my day
--obsessing about food?
--agitation, the peace I feel is eroded
--physical discomfort?
--nagging physical hunger? (don't know what that would even feel like at this point)
--not looking well... gaunt? haggard? poor colour? Right now I look GREAT (keto glow)!

...these are some of the "signs" that have sent me foraging in the past... though at this stage, I have trouble imagining what/when these things may show up. I crossed some sort of a threshold around day 20. I guess I'm expecting my body to simply let me know.

I think with the stress you're under, expecting to fast longer-term than you already have may be unrealistic for now. I think you're doing amazingly well... and keep in mind, I've been using IF for years now, and in the last 2 years I've done several fast of over a week each time, and a couple of 2-week fasts.

Also important to say yet again, fasting long-term is not something anyone should do lightly, and working up to it is important. When I've broken my fast in the past, it really was the mental game that I couldn't overcome. I'm not sure that before now, I was truly convicted about this course of action.

I also think stress could be a tipping point for me (it's been a significant factor in the past on shorter fasts). Any time my cortisol revs up there is a chain reaction, but the longer this goes, the harder it is to get a rise out of me, LOL... so I'm truly in unexplored territory here.

I suppose I should be doing some googling on how to know an extended fast is coming to an end.



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/6/2018 (11:01)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Glad that you were able to stay the course over the Easter food prep & family time! Interesting to note that your DH also felt "you weren't done yet"?!
-- How will you know when you are "done" at this stage of this journey/path? What "signals" will you be looking for? (...just curious!)

** I'm finding that even though my "head" knows some of the "why" of things / choices, etc. sometimes it's still challenging for me to stay the course when life is stressful. Quality sleep (or lack thereof) also plays into that...as does weather and other "outside" stressors. Sigh... My frustration lies in still not seeing an END to my upside down home life. -- I'm trying to accept the progress...
emoticon

"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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emoticon Great Article emoticon

Im probably hovering around keto zone. Ive noticed with running now in my routine Im hungrier after work outs. Experiencing with Coconut creamed sweet Potatoes with chicken & roasted veggies is a go to. I loved your tip on Paleo Thread: Have on hand ingredients for your top easy go to meals. O prep out 5-6 items that can be interchangeabd thru the week. 😀

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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GREAT read, and my ultimate goal:

What Happens “After Keto”?
www.marksdailyapple.com/what-happens-after
-keto/









Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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4/4/18 12:29 P

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An interesting historical read:



www.amazon.com/Fasting-Cure-Classic-Reprin
t/dp/1528260724/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid
=1523461846&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fastin
g+cure+upton+sinclair


"The Fasting Cure is both a fascinating and slightly dangerous book. It was written by Upton Sinclair, a respectable and accomplished journalist, but no doctor. In this case Sinclair seems to have been taken in by his subject matter without using quite enough of his critical faculties.

Fasting has been a part of health and religious practices since time immemorial, it can be healthy in moderation and has various well-documented effects on the body. From this perspective Sinclair's book is worthwhile for the hints and tips towards more sensible fasters and also as a historical document of the "fasting fever" which occurred around the time of writing. One thing fasting is not however is a cure for cancer, or for several others of the diseases claimed within. Another problem with this book is the claim that fasts for up to 40 or 50 days are common and healthy, modern medical advice would suggest that this is far too extreme and very dangerous.

Rather than a single book this is a collection of articles written by Upton Sinclair on the topic of fasting as well as letters on the topic which he received. His remarks and comments on these are also included and serve to bind the parts together. Readers may be interested in this work from a historical or anthropological point of view especially, but should not follow the instructions without close contact with their physician."







My Notes:


(coming back to this....)



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/11/2018 (19:28)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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emoticon on your Amazing Fast!!! 16 lbs Gone emoticon

~Alofa
-Awesome A Team
-Navy Ninja's BLC37
-Pacific Standard Time
"Food is the most Abused Anxiety Drug,
Exercise is the most underutilized Antidepressant."
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TlE
E5BkGe8z_fUhsSXT-XvCSlwbdmbUD5PWilcUur
o/edit#gid=460375988


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emoticon


Sorry for the troubles. emoticon

Edited by: BERRY4 at: 4/13/2018 (00:10)
"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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CHAPTER 8: Overweight and Other Chronic Medical Conditions Respond to Fasting

While I don't even remotely agree with this author's recommendations for a healthy diet, these points resonated with me:


(coming back to this...)



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/4/2018 (12:27)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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First I wish you well and thank you for journaling your fast.
emoticon

KISS-Keep It Simple Sweetie!
Have you ever wished for different?
Now is the time to make it happen.





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3/27/18 12:35 A

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THIS: "There is so much to learn when eating has been set aside!"

...and I don't think this is something you can know unless you enter into the exercise of serious fasting. What I wouldn't give to have a conversation with Angus Barbieri, the 27-yr.-old Scotsman who fasted, water-only, for 382 days:




The True Story of a Man Who Survived Without Any Food For 382 Days
www.sciencealert.com/the-true-story-of-a-m
an-who-survived-without-any-food-for-3
82-days?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1


382 days without Food [Study]
cristivlad.com/total-starvation-382-days-w
ithout-food-study/




I think it would be fascinating to hear what he has to say to say about the experience, and what he learned. Furthermore, most people focus on his weight loss, but I'd be interested to know what other changes he might be able to identify.



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 3/27/2018 (01:14)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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3/27/18 12:12 A

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For me, I think the most interesting part is the paying attention to what is going inside and outside our bodies. -- There is so much to learn when eating has been set aside!

I've learned about triggers.
I've learned about actual hunger.
I'm really learning to enjoy good food.
I'm enjoying fixing new-to-us, healthy foods.
I'm learning to translate labels, watching for hidden sugars & additives.

And tonight, I was most happy to treat myself to some frozen raspberries for desert. (Maybe next time I'll add heavy cream!)
emoticon
My relationship with food has drastically changed due to fasting.
emoticon

"We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."
~C. Malesherbes~

"Your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts."
Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)





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3/26/18 10:30 P

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How to NOT do a long-term fast:




1981 Irish Republican Prisoners hunger strike
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_st
rike


One man died after 46 days, one after 59 days, one after 60 days, three after 61 days, one after 62 days, one after 66 days, one after 71 days, and one after 73 days (so a range of 46-73 days survival).

These men were in prison at the time, and had been for some time before beginning their hunger strike, and they had no control what-so-ever over their circumstances...they likely had very little physical reserves, likely hadn't been well-fed for some time from a nutritional perspective, and potentially may have had complicating health concerns... all factors which would make fasting long-term unadvisable. These men weren't fasting, they STARVED to death.


This is a terribly sad story/situation, and it certainly speaks to the importance of knowing what you are doing if you are going to try fasting for any reason therapeutically (for health reasons) or otherwise, especially long-term. Beyond the fact that these men likely shouldn't have undertaken a "fast" at all, I seriously doubt any of them were properly prepared to fast long-term.

Were they fat-adapted/healthy before they started?
Did they have access to enough water?
Did they guard their electrolyte balance?
What was the state of their health when they began fasting?
Were they well aware of what signs to look for that would indicate that they needed to end their fast, or die?
Did that even matter to them, or was dying for their cause the end game?

Using these sorts of stories to discourage anyone from a long-term fast is inappropriate, and smacks of fear-mongering.

There are many reputable doctors (see Dr. Fuhrman below in this thread, and read Dr. Fung) who, for healing purposes, use extended fasting to heal their patients of many serious and chronic illnesses/diseases. It is considered a 'normal' rule of thumb with regard to autoimmune conditions to fast at least 40 days, if body reserves and general health allow. If not, then fasts of shorter duration in close proximity are used. The average individual (no body weight to lose) can typically fast for 40-60 days without issue.

The bottom line: fasting in general, and extended fasting in particular, isn't something to be undertaken on a whim, or carelessly, and IT'S NOT A WEIGHT-LOSS STRATEGY. Specific HEALTH objectives need to be identified and monitored, and you need to be in tune with your body (having already made short-term fasting a part of your lifestyle with an understanding of your body's cues) so that you're aware of when it's important to stop the fast.

As the story above indicates, there's no heroism in an extended fast simply for the sake of accomplishing an extended fast, and it's not the length of the fast, but how you fuel your body (QUALITY nutrition) beforehand and once you stop that is most important.







Fasting Myths
idmprogram.com/fasting-myths-part-5/

Fasting and Autophagy
idmprogram.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasti
ng-25/


The Fasting Series (one woman's experience with extended fasting)
personalexcellence.co/blog/fasting-series/




Edited by: _RAMONA at: 3/31/2018 (10:32)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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Wow, impressive. Congratulations.

Ramona, if you're serious about 60-day fasting, I'd break it up in 2 like Berry4 said. See my blog on the subject. Good job with the fasting effort and the journals.

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CHAPTER 10: What to Expect on Your First Fast

While I don't even remotely agree with this author's recommendations for a healthy diet, these points resonated with me:


(coming back to this....)



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 4/4/2018 (12:29)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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CHAPTER 2: Improper Nutrition: The Cause of Disease

While I don't even remotely agree with this author's recommendations for a healthy diet, these points resonated with me:

* Most people don't comprehend the relationship between their food intake, lifestyle habits and chronic illnesses... especially those which are autoimmune in nature (and everything is autoimmune in nature)

* Health authorities, most physicians and dietitians recommend the very same eating plans that caused their illnesses to develop in the first place (for instance diabetics are instructed to eat 60 grams of carbs PER MEAL).

* Patients are frequently told that the food they consume has nothing to do with the the disease from which they suffer. (I was... yet changing how ate immediately improved my conditions)

* Most chronic medical problems are not only caused by improper diet and lifestyle, but also can be REVERSED by adopting a more primitive and natural diet (we disagree on what "primitive and natural" Dr. Furhman says vegan, I espouse Paleo... vegan/vegetarian make me fatter and sicker)

* We do not need to be a nation of medical dependents visiting physicians and taking drugs in a futile attempt to combat the effects of our disease-producing modern diet.

* Our modern way of eating sets the stage for our bodies to function at low-efficiency, stressing our internal organ systems, leading to chronic disease.












Edited by: _RAMONA at: 3/22/2018 (15:05)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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3/19/18 11:57 P

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I started reading a very helpful book:




CHAPTER 1: Fasting for Physical Rejuvination

* Health is the normal state.

* Therapeutic fasting is not a mystical or magical cure. It works because the body has within it the capacity to heal when the obstacle sot healing are removed.

* Fasting, in the strictest sense is defined as the voluntary abstinence from all food and drink, except water, as long as the nutritional reserves of the body are adequate to sustain normal function.

* A total fast, with water only, is both the most effective and the safest way to fast.

* No supplements are necessary because the body's cells carry adequate reserves of protein, fat, minerals and vitamins. Even in prolonged fasts (20-30 days) no deficiency diseases develop.

* One cannot achieve the powerful benefits of complete fasting if any sort of nutrition is included. If any sort of nutrition is included that body cannot enter the "protein-sparing" fasting state. Also the powerful anti-inflammatory properties of a pure water fast, essential for the healing of autoimmune illnesses cannot be mobilized.

* The body has it's own innate detoxification pathways and mechanisms. There is nothing that can be taken that will ever accomplish the powerful biochemical changes that occur when we undertake a complete fast.

* Fasting is not starvation. Starvation begins when fasting continues beyond the time when the body's stored reserves are used up or have dropped to a dangerously low level.

* The time required for a fast to achieve completion varies from individual to individual. The average individual (not overweight) would have to fast approximately 40 days or more to exhaust nutrient reserves.

* Fasting is nature's restorer. The job of fasting is to supply the body with the ideal environment to accomplish its work of healing.

* The innate wisdom of the body is such that, while fasting, it will consume for its sustenance superfluous tissues, and destroy needless tissue such as fat, tumors, blood vessel plaque, and other non-essential and diseased tissues, while conserving essential tissue, giving the fast the power to restore physiologic youth to the body.

* Fasting is not new. For more than 10,000 years fasting has been utilized to heal the sick.





Oh if only modern medicine took Hippocrates more seriously!



Edited by: _RAMONA at: 3/22/2018 (15:04)

Dr. Jason Fung: "Holy consensus, Batman. With so many 'experts' from Michelle Obama to the USDA to virtually all of the medical professionals (including doctors and dieticians) agreeing that 'Eat Less, Move More' is the way to go, you might think that it is 100% unquestionably true. But here's a queer thought... if we all agree that we know the cure for obesity, and we've spent billions on educations and programs - why are we getting fatter? In other words, why does this 'cure' suck so bad?


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