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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 13,948
11/3/19 11:08 A

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SNUZYQ2,
again sorry about your brother's health.

What you are describing makes sense to me. When exerting Ketosis and cutting carbs your body's enzyme production favours the type needed to digest carbs. When faced with more fat and less carbs its changes the type it produces. It takes about 3 days to a week, and is sometimes called the "keto flu". You lack energy because you aren't eating carbs, and body chemistry doesn't burn fat very well.

The opposite direction, starting to eat carbs when in ketosis, or leaving ketosis, ... yes it should take about the same time to reverse the body chemistry, so 3 days until carbs and blood sugar related to that are back to where they used to be.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 169.0 
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SNUZYQ2's Photo SNUZYQ2 SparkPoints: (45,322)
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11/3/19 4:15 A

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Hi James,
I got the "eating low carb increases your sensitivity to carbohydrates" from OGTT results from diabetic patients who'd been eating keto and retested to find out whether their sensitivity to carbs had decreased. The surprise finding was that all diabetic patients showed vastly increased sensitivity to carbs; their OGTT results were extremely high - higher blood sugar than they had ever experienced before eating keto.
What I didn't know is that this sensitivity is apparently short lived and not permanent. Once these patients returned to a more balanced diet including carbs, they went back to their pre-keto sensitivity level and usually within 3 days. Your questions sparked my interest so I did some extensive online study - which is the reason it has taken me so long to get back to you. I like examining the .org, .gov and .edu sites to find actual and current research into issues. Only the free stuff gets accessed so this limits things a bit.
I also delved into my brother's situation further to find some confusion there...his kidney failure has affected his brain. He thought his doctor had told him to limit all fats, but what the doctor had told him was to limit his saturated fat intake. He's been on limited protein for awhile now as directed by his doctor and he knew not to increase that. So, with his addled mind, he decided to do what he thought was keto...little protein...very little fat...no carbs and it was this routine that got him into trouble. The net result was a starvation diet coupled with not enough water. The miracle was that he wasn't hospitalized for his misadventure, but his kidneys were set back further and he was finally sent for dialysis.
Jenny Ruhl has done a lot for and with the online diabetic community. Have you read her book: "Blood Sugar 101 - What They Don't Tell You About Diabetes"? She also wrote "The Truth About Low Carb Diets" which is supportive of a low carb lifestyle for type-2 diabetics. Both of these books are very intelligently written.
So...my own jury is actually still out concerning keto. Jenny points out that each type-2 diabetic is unique. What is doable for one may not be doable for another. But she is a strong advocate of getting one's A1C into the 5% range, which she has found to be doable even for diabetics who've had their diabetes for many years. For now, my A1C is low enough to allow me to relax my carbohydrate levels a bit. But I still take a week from time to time check my post prandials for highs...at one hour, two hours, three hours and even four hours post-meal depending on what I've eaten. With the weight loss, my readings are always under 140 now. So...I don't think I'll be doing keto anytime soon, but I'm surely a supporter of those who must. Take care friend!

All things are possible.


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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (314,631)
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11/1/19 10:18 P



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I know that this isn't about sugar cravings, but it can be helpful for some diabetics.

Something a lot of people who want/need to watch carbs and who like potatoes don't realize is that you can buy reduced carb potatoes. I don't have to watch my carbs, but I buy this potato which is 40% reduced carb, so I can increase my protein without affecting my overall calories, and helps to maintain my recommended ranges.

This is what I get, but they are New Zealand - some countries have them in other varieties and varying amounts of carb reduction. I can also get a 12% reduced carb variety.
tandg.global/our-produce/lotatoes/

If your supermarket doesn't sell lower carb potatoes, ask them if they can get them in. If you provide information about them and explain their benefits, and the fact a lot of people eat lower carb by choice as well, then they should easily have a market for selling them. There is no difference in taste and whatever you want to do with a normal potato you can do with these.

I also buy a lower carb bread - for the higher protein and good fibre content.

Kris

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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 13,948
11/1/19 3:15 P

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SNUZYQ2,
sorry about your brother's health issues.

I googled "eating low carb increases your sensitivity to carbohydrates", and found links like this one:
www.diagnosisdiet.com/carbohydrate-sensiti
vity-diet-options/

and this one that says low carb diets have it all wrong:
www.diagnosisdiet.com/carbohydrate-sensiti
vity-diet-options/

but that one does not say that one's sensitivity to carbs goes up. Do you have a reference for that?

Excess protein can certainly be hard on the kidneys, but one's body also needs certain amount of protein per day to maintain muscles and lean part. That minimal amount of protein is about 50 grams a day. Yes, it's tough when you have kidney problems.

How did eating Keto impact your brother? Did he cut the carbs but up the protein?

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 169.0 
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JILLINOIS1's Photo JILLINOIS1 SparkPoints: (2,304)
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11/1/19 12:28 P

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Things do get easier. I've been a T2D for 24 years, and an RN for 34 years (disabled now). No meds for 12 years, now on 2 insulins and metformin. Back when I first was out of school, and even in my early years after being diagnosed, sugar was the focus. They discovered that carbs in general affect blood sugar (starches, sugars, and everything in the fruit, bread/starch, and junk categories counts as carbs). I will NOT use artificial sweeteners

I've done the following to manage my sweet tooth:
-eat balanced meals- this is huge. Don't skip meals (easier to grab junk when your stomach is talking to you).

- sparkling fruit flavored water (zero calories, and no artificial sweeteners) or lemon water (had to stop the lemon water because of chronic gastritis) now and then. I like spring water, and have a well, so drinking water is pleasant to me- and also helps keep me feeling fuller, so the sweet tooth backs off.

- erythritol for a no-calorie NATURAL sweetener (technically a sugar alcohol but none of the diarrhea and gas of some others). Added to cooked rhubarb (free food) AFTER it's cooked and cooled is a real treat; it will crystalize in hot food).

- Surkin Gold brown sugar replacement (NATURAL) for oatmeal. Will also sub it in for the brown sugar in the granola bar recipe I saw on Spark. Tastes like the real thing. Same texture as well, and no calories.

- frozen berries- I do my own blueberries (completely dry), and have 1/2 cup of those- frozen takes longer to eat, and is more of a treat. I buy frozen pineapple, peaches, strawberries, and raspberries to use frozen. 1/2 cup of frozen fruit and a low-fat cheese stick are a great bedtime snack if you have that in your meal plan.

- the occasional sugar free chocolates (love Russell Stover brand, either coconut or mint), maybe weekly. Still counts as a carb as calculated per label information.

-There are also smaller sweet 'hits' like sugar free LifeSavers and Werther's- go for the flavor profile (fruity or caramel), and enjoy a couple of pieces. These do have a laxative effect if you eat too many- I suggest starting with just one piece, and no more than the serving size on the bag when you know how you react.

- choose lower GI foods (brown rice over white rice, sourdough bread vs. white bread, whole grains, non-starchy veggies, etc). Plenty of sources online with GI numbers. Will keep your numbers more stable than potatoes (though I have a baked spud now and then as a 'treat meal', accounted for with carbs and insulin).

- now and then, I have a 'normal' sweet- was taught that allowing the occasional treat is better in the long run for overall compliance with meal/blood sugar management. That will take the place of other carbs during the day- still have to account for them.

-if you have a high powered blender, you can make a sort of sorbet with the frozen fruit- just pulse frozen fruit until smooth. One ingredient- fruit.

- Joseph's Maple Syrup (made with maltilol). Tastes just like regular pancake syrup, but 1/3 cup has 30 calories. I only need about 1-2 TBS for 2 small pancakes. NATURAL sweetener. I don't use this very often, but Walden Farms label looks like a chemistry experiment, so I won't use it. I'd rather have this. Regardless, I don't eat a lot of things that need syrup.

Diabetes doesn't have to be about deprivation but substitution. It takes a bit of time to get used to things, but the improved feeling from more stable blood sugars is worth it. My A1C was 10.2 when I was diagnosed....since then it's never been above 7, and as low as 4.8. It's 5.7 now. Seeing the progress in numbers is a motivator for me. IF people ate like diabetics are supposed to, we probably would have a LOT fewer diabetics in the world.

Edited by: JILLINOIS1 at: 11/1/2019 (12:30)
SNUZYQ2's Photo SNUZYQ2 SparkPoints: (45,322)
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11/1/19 3:17 A

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There are problems for type-2 diabetics avoiding carbs altogether. Most type-2ers are already carbohydrate-sensitive. One thing that the low/no carb routine does is to increase sensitivity to carbohydrates. So when a diabetic low/no carb-er slips up and goes off their diet, the blood sugar doesn't just go high...it goes very, very high. The American Diabetic Association doesn't recommend carbohydrate avoidance for type-2 diabetics because the diet doesn't seem to be sustainable. This means most folks can do it for a spell but quit after awhile. And when the diabetic goes off it, they pay big time in diabetic complications. Another problem is with type-2ers who have chronic kidney disease (which is quite common among diabetics). I have this. The trouble for these folks is the only food group their kidneys handle well is carbohydrate. In the latter stages, most are encouraged to reduce and limit protein and fat and this is of necessity because overdoing either protein and/or fat further damages the kidneys. If you are limiting or excluding carbs you will overdo protein and/or fat. This process goes much better for a diabetic whose body has become used to handling at least 50% of their daily calories as carbohydrate. My diet is between 50-60% carbohydrate. I stage my carbs carefully and truly enjoy them. I don't have carb cravings now that I've removed white sugar from my diet. I include whole grains, beans and bean products, fruits, vegetables and dairy and my A1C is 5.2. My kidney disease has improved to above the "moderate" level. As far as the doctors are concerned, I no longer have a kidney problem. My brother is in end-stage renal failure and decided on his own to go on the keto diet. The results were not good. He's now awaiting kidney transplant and it's a race against time. He's on dialysis and complains about his quality of life. If only he'd had a head to listen to his doctors!

All things are possible.


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EOWYN24241's Photo EOWYN24241 Posts: 4,997
11/1/19 3:06 A

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I see, thank you for the detailed and informative answer, James.
I for one LOVE carbs! Esp fruit!!!!

Used to be Eowyn2424


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 13,948
10/31/19 11:58 P

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Elaine,
I'm doing pretty well. My confusion from about 30 years ago was that "blood sugar" had the word sugar in it. So I focused on just avoiding sugar.

As I learned about 9 years ago was that avoiding sugar wasn't really the whole picture. All carbohydrates ultimately impact blood "sugar". Then it is a matter of what happens. For healthy people, their body can lower blood sugar into a healthy range, insulin ...

But or folks with too much body fat, that resists the insulin, or not enough insulin ... then carbs raise blood "sugar". One can try to convince yourself that slowly digested carbs are going to be better compared to "simple" carbs, or fibre, or whatever. But the real story is that all carbs raise blood sugar, and if you have problems with blood sugar being too high, then just avoid carbs in general, and that is really the hardest pill to swallow.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 11/1/2019 (00:00)
James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 169.0 
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EOWYN24241's Photo EOWYN24241 Posts: 4,997
10/30/19 1:56 A

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Hi, James! How are you?

I didn't really notice that you're a diabetic. Most of my family are either diabetic or pre-diabetic. That's why I've learnt to cut out sugar in general.

What confuses me is, I've read it's not the sugar, but I kinda think that you do have to limit sugar in general. Or rather simple carbs.

Used to be Eowyn2424


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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 13,948
10/14/19 11:06 A

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CECEBERN,
I'm a type-2 diabetic, which I presume you are too.

Sad to say, the only way I've found to reduce those cravings is to not eat sweet things. It's hard at first. I focus on the flavours of non-processed foods. Like steamed broccoli with butter and salt. Its not sweet, but it has a great taste.

I do have some "treats". Like a squares of dark chocolate with a dab of peanut butter. A sort of Rieses pieces. But the chocolate is very dark, 85% cocoa, and I only eat 1 or 2 squares a day, and I don't eat that every day.

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


 current weight: 169.0 
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178
165
ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (221,886)
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10/10/19 8:42 A



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CECEBERN,

Welcome to Spark People !

It take a while, but the sugar cravings do decrease with time. Normally, I encourage all members who want to decrease processed sugar to increase the amount of fresh fruit they eat. However, because your are diabetic, I know that you need to watch the fruits you eat.

Your doctor or dietitian may have given you some guidelines as far as what to eat. Start with the fruits that don't spike your blood sugar. Usually berries like strawberries, blueberries or raspberries can be good choices since they are low on the glycemic index.

Also, increase the amount of veggies you eat if you can't eat fruit. think lots of dark leafy greens. veggies are loaded with FIBER. eating foods that are high in fiber will help keep your blood sugar levels stable.

And well, you need to do your best to stay away from the sugary treats. it's a challenge, but not an impossible one.

Something that helped me was learning to be a food snob. Why eat a packaged chocolate chip cookie when I could eat a home baked one ? the truth is, packaged foods really don't taste that great. The only reason the do is because they are loaded with a ridiculous amount of sugar.

This is a learning process. Your tastes will change with time.

SPARK_MERLE's Photo SPARK_MERLE Posts: 9,215
10/9/19 10:21 P

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Hi,

It's great that you are working on those cravings. There are some good ideas in this article:

9 Realistic Ways to Kick Your Sugar Cravings
www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition_art
icles.asp?id=2233


I hope this helps and I wish you all the best!

Spark_Merle



Edited by: SPARK_MERLE at: 10/9/2019 (22:22)
~ Merle

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do."
Edward Everett Hale
CECEBERN's Photo CECEBERN Posts: 27
10/9/19 2:27 P

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Hello all! I'm new to the sparkpeople community. I was diagnosed with diabetes several months ago, but keep finding I have an uphill battle when it comes to sugar cravings (candy and ice cream especially.) How do you handle cravings for sweets?



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