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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 13,701
3/23/18 10:30 P

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i may be too late to the party and repeating something that's here, (I confess I didn't read all of the comments all the way through). I want to speak about addiction.

People think that complete abstinence is the best way to tame an addiction and that if they can't do that, they've failed. If you look at the real research on addiction, and not just the most promoted ways of dealing with it, it shows that demanding complete abstinence up front is not the most effective strategy. The majority of people with problem substance use taper off their use, sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly. The more successful strategy for MOST (and I know people will come out of the woodwork to give this and that single example) is using the concept of harm reduction. Work on reducing the severity and frequency while also reinforcing with opposite supportive behaviors. In this case, eat generous meals of increasingly quality food at routine intervals. Work on finding more pleasurable and/or productive activities in between those meals.

I also want to say that there is plenty of evidence that extreme overeating is NOT driven only by emotional problems, though they may have become linked. The body is usually very reinforced by eating calorie dense food and will seek it out once it's been tasted. Manufactured food especially can set off a spiral of needing greater amounts over time, and can actually get the body to want to maintain at a higher weight. I feel I have basically got my binge eating in check, but I have all the same emotional problems I ever did.

I'm not sure where you are with this, but if you go the calorie counting route, please consider starting at the level that would just keep you maintaining the weight you are now, but using a higher percentage of good quality foods. If binging is the only time you eat junk, then just eat full meals of your regular foods. Do not try to go completely clean right away if you've been having so much trouble recently. And don't try right away to lose. Get used to life without the binging. I believe you will have a much easier time eventually decreasing the amount of food you eat in general after you have baseline of being fed well.

You deserve to give yourself the best shot to find a way you can live WITH food for all the years of raising your children and beyond.

.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/17/18 6:47 P

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Boston's nor easters are causing Maryland to be 20-30 degrees below average temperature.

You're over the snow. I am over the hateful cold. I hope it all stops.



MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/15/18 5:48 P

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My mom is really good at making pies and pie crust. I am okay with the filling, but not that great at making the crust.



MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/15/18 5:47 P

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I have friends that love snow, but they can have a Netflix and hot cocoa day. They don't even have to touch a shovel.

I say no shovel = Not allowed opinion. Our local meteorologist loves it, but at least he would shovel it.

I know fear that Maryland will get pounded next year. We are due a blizzard.



OBIESMOM2's Photo OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (260,158)
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3/13/18 2:00 P

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mom makes a homemade butter pecan cheesecake that is really good.

for me, it's her homemade cherry pie with the lattice crust. SOOOOO GOOD!


The most handicapped person in the world is a negative thinker; a person who has the skills, abilities, talents and tools, yet chooses not to use them.
~Heather Whitestone

Forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen


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3/13/18 1:24 P



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Three Nor'easters in less than two weeks.

The first storm dumped 2+ inches of rain and damaged coastal cities with the storm surge.

The second storm dumped a mix of rain/snow. North/West of 495 got hammered with 12-20+ inches of snow. The city got around 7 inches of snow and a half inch of rain. the south shore flooded because of second high tide.

The third storm is currently dumping 12-18+ inches of snow east of 495. South shore could see 16-24+ inches of snow. North/ West of 495 will add a foot of snow on top of the 1-2 feet they got from the storm last week.

I'm working from home today, but as soon as I'm done I'll be outside starting to shovel.

Edited by: ARCHIMEDESII at: 3/13/2018 (13:27)
MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/13/18 12:34 P

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Hope you are doing well as Boston gets slammed with another nor easter



MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/13/18 12:32 P

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Good cheesecake is really good. The kind from the grocery store isn't that good.

I usually make it once or twice a year. For birthdays or when I know I will be able to share it. Having a cheesecake in the fridge. Calling my name. Is dangerous.




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3/11/18 4:54 P



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Twice a year, I eat cheesecake without worrying about how many calories one slice has. That's Thanksgiving and Christmas. I have a relative who makes the most wonderful homemade cheesecakes. So, twice a year I indulge, if she makes them. Lately, she's been making a lot of date nut breads because it's less time consuming.

I've stopped buying too many cukes as well. I like them in my salads. but if I get too many, you're right. they go bad and end up in compost. I have a couple of English seedless cukes that will last me the week. I do like the smaller Persian cukes, but I only buy those when I can find them.

Lately, I've been eating more red cabbage in my salads to add some extra fiber and flavor.




MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/10/18 6:32 P

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My mom and I finally convinced him that it wasn't a good idea. Even though he likes cucumbers. They usually rot in the refrigerator. I couldn't imagine going out and buying enough cucumbers for that diet and he gets so sick of them. That they rot.

I love night shades and crave them. I couldn't imagine cutting them from my diet.

Last summer when I was craving cheesecake. I made one and took it to my church Bible study. It was so good. I got one slice. Satisfied my craving. Everyone else made it disappear quickly. It was a browned butter pecan cheesecake and soooooo goooood.



ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (202,477)
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3/10/18 5:34 P



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Mandie,

I'll admit it. When I was younger, I did my fair share of fad diets just like everyone esel. Count me in for the grapefruit diet (eat as many as you want all day).

I googled the cucumber diet. I suspect the only reason your father is doing it is because it's a "lose weight fast" diet. Just be supportive when he gives up and goes back to eating burgers and fries. Eating a cucumber salad several times per day is going to get old really really fast.

What concerns me about the cucumber diet is that when I did do a search looking for information, a number of pro anorexia sites popped up. It seems it's being recommended as a great way to lose weight fast. You should show your father those websites and then ask him if he thinks doing that diet is a good idea.

Right now, I'm only curious about one person's diet and that's Tom Brady's. I've skimmed through his book, but it doesn't say anything about what he eats. Mostly it says, but X supplements from his website and drink gallons of water each day.

I know he doesn't eat night shades (tomatoes, eggplant, peppers) because he considers them inflammatory. He doesn't eat a lot of meat. He doesn't eat white potatoes, but does eat sweet potatoes. If I read the interviews, he eats a lot of organic greens. He and Giselle both have the same diet.

Okay, so I want to know what he eats. Because he must be doing something right to be able to do what he does on the football field at age 40 !! And he wants to keep playing until he's 45.

Not that I would do his diet. I couldn't afford all the supplements. and I do love eating nightshades. I don't consider them inflammatory. And if some study says they are, not a problem. I just add spices that reduce inflammation like turmeric, cumin, garlic, ginger. lol.




JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/10/18 4:46 P

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who DOESN'T like cookie dough cheesecake? emoticon

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/9/18 3:52 P

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I share some similarities with Oprah. I haven't gained and lost and gained as much. I have done the diets that are unsustainable and lead to failure.

I am one of those that blog about their weight loss journey. I (don't) however insist that everyone. Use the same diet plan as I use. Since I (don't) have a diet plan that would be really hard.

Just trying to do this. By making better choices. Tracking those choices.

I saw your signature @JDMMJDMM I like cookie dough cheesecake, too.

emoticon



MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/9/18 3:46 P

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I have also tried intermittent fasting. Didn't really work for me. I made up for not eating when it was time to eat.

I've also done the crazy diets. Like all fruit one day all vegetables the next. I struggled that entire week. To only lose one pound. I am pretty sure that I gained it back and then some. When I ate a bunch of food in frustration.

Only recently. My dad decided he wanted to get off his plateau by going on The Cucumber Diet. I love cucumbers, but not sure that I could eat something like six a day. Plus some other food. When I refused to go on it with him. He asked if I really wanted to lose the weight? Yes but I want to lose it reasonably and keep it off.

I don't think anyone could be hungry on The Cucumber Diet. They would be so full of gas. I think that would fill up their stomach. To be vulgar. They wouldn't be able to leave the bathroom to eat.





GIPPER1961's Photo GIPPER1961 Posts: 769
3/9/18 12:36 P

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you are right about Oprah, and I won't criticize her because I have the same pattern. I think we have to find out what out need is in getting healthy.

The best intervention for someone who just needs to lose 20 - 30 pounds than someone who yo yo's constantly and has problems tied to stress or emotion. Unfortunately the diet/nutrition industry tends to offer one size fits all solution complete with bloggers that tell us that if we don't follow the my plate or the pyramid in the day we are following a fad diet and we will soon die of an eating disorder.

Know thyself is the best thing I have found.



It is not the mistake that causes the serious damage. It is the mistake that you make of defending the first mistake that causes it, Einstein


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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/9/18 8:40 A

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I've tried the intermittent fasting thing...and, I agree....it leads to obsessing even more over food....translation: tendency to BINGE. Right now I'm trying to be reasonable, eat good foods, and listen to my body. Eat when truly hungry...not emotionally hungry. but not prolonged fasting.....I just don't think IF is a solution for me either.

I wonder how many pounds Oprah has lost over the years. I feel for her because she tends to get arrogant about it and blab to the world that she's finally solved the riddle...only to gain it back. I guess we all tend to that, though....."I've finally lost it for good!" If and when I lose it this time, I'm not saying a word lol!!!

Edited by: JDMMJDMM at: 3/9/2018 (08:40)
Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (202,477)
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3/9/18 6:02 A



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When someone tells me they are doing a shake based diet or one of those liquid detoxes, I remember Oprah.

Oprah was on a medically supervised liquid diet when she lost that 67 pounds that she dragged out in that wagon. She lost that weight fast and she packed the weight back on even faster. She has access to the best doctors, dietitians, chefs, trainers, etc... Like the rest of us, she's a yo yo dieter.

So, what's Oprah doing today to lose the weight ?

WEIGHT WATCHERS

She's now partial owner of the company. And she has been slowly taking off the weight. No more 5 mile a day runs. No more liquid diets. If she ever did one of the fasting diets, she hasn't talked about it.


OBIESMOM2's Photo OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (260,158)
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3/8/18 3:20 P

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I wonder if, years down the road, scientific studies will find that intermittent fasting causes the same problems that yo-yo dieting causes.
Every time you lose weight quickly, you lose a small percentage of muscle mass. When you regain, you increase your body fat.
Let's say you start at 32% body fat - you do some form of 'quick weight loss' to get ready for a special event, then go back to your old ways & regain.
Now your body fat is 35% - you do the same thing over and over, and your body fat % is going to creep up, making you less healthy AND messing up your metabolism so it's even more difficult to lose weight.

I remember reading that Oprah was having to run 5 miles daily just to maintain her weight loss (AND she was pretty strict on her food intake). Remember when she lost all that weight?

I honestly thought she looked disproportioned. Her head looked too big for her body.
And it obviously was impossible for her to stay at that weight.
If I had to run 5 miles every day and still seriously restrict what I ate...heck, I'd never be able to do that for the rest of my life!

Have you ever heard the term 'skinny fat'? Many people who eat poorly, but are still thin, fall under the 'skinny fat' definition. A scan of their body will show that they have an unhealthy percentage of body fat (usually around the midsection). Even though the are in the healthy range as far as BMI, they are still prone to type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and many of the other common health problems of the obese.


The most handicapped person in the world is a negative thinker; a person who has the skills, abilities, talents and tools, yet chooses not to use them.
~Heather Whitestone

Forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen


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ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (202,477)
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3/8/18 12:39 P



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As far as intermittent fasting for weight loss, I did not fast to lose weight and I will not fast. My personal opinion is that fasting leads to binge eating. My personal opinion is that a person doesn't need to starve themselves to lose weight or be healthy.

My personal opinion is that people need to learn to eat right and watch their portion sizes. Too many people who are trying to lose weight believe that the minute they've lost weight and they're "thin", they can eat whatever they want. That is a total misconception. The habits the person adopted in order to lose the weight, they need to keep it off. That's why so many people trying to lose end up failing. it's because they stop eating right and go back to their old eating habits.

Well, those old eating habits are the reason they can't lose. Fasting two days a week (isn't that the new trend ? eat whatever for 5 days, but fast for 2 ?) is not going to undo the eating habits learned over a life time.

I had to relearn how to eat in order to lose weight. I can't eat like a typical American anymore or I will be fat again.


ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (202,477)
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3/8/18 12:16 P



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JDMMJDMM,

Americans are a meat eating culture. If you look at a typical American meat/potatoes meal, the meat IS the primary focus. The veggies, the condiment. In other parts of the world, it's the reverse. The meat is the condiment and the veggies the main course.

When I was morbidly obese, I ate like a typical American. Plenty of meat, but not enough veggies. Now that I have been learning to live a healthier lifestyle (and it is a never ending process), I eat significantly less meat and significantly more fruit/veggies. Keep in mind that the reason the rest of the world is also getting fat is because they are adopting the typical American style of eating i.e. too much meat, too much highly processed food, too much fast food.

Let's take that "bad" meal of yours for a moment. You said that a bad meal is a plate of spagetthi. In Italy, that spagetthi would not be slathered in a meat red sauce. Depending on the region and the recipe, the pasta would be tossed with a bit of olive oil, good quality grated cheese and some sauted veggies.

Here's an example. This is what they eat in Italy.



This is how Americans think pasta should be eaten.



Except the tomatoes in the sauce, the only green thing on that plate is a piece of parsley that is typically discarded by your average American. That's how I used to eat spaghetti, with tons of meatballs and lots of sauce/cheese. And that's why I was morbidly obese. Today, when I eat pasta, it does look more like the first image, less meat, lots more veggies, a drizzle of good olive oil and a little cheese.

What I have found and as others have also said, to lose weight, I had to relearn how to eat. So for your bad meal, I would decrease the amount of meatballs and increase the amount of veggies. I like cooking artichokes (when they are in season). I like adding grilled or sauted veggies. The meat is just for some flavor. the pasta/veggie are the main course now.


Edited by: ARCHIMEDESII at: 3/8/2018 (12:30)
JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/8/18 10:19 A

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To MandiTerrier: Sometimes tone is misinterpreted in the written word. Plus, dieting can be a touchy subject for any of us. But no hard feelings! I need to be open to hearing the good, the bad, and the ugly! I'm glad you have had two great months of good eating....I hope to get to the same place myself very soon! Fingers crossed! Keep sparking, lady! :)

Obiesmom: good point....there are helpful takeaway points from any given diet. Hopefully the person can individualize from each to come up with their own "diet happy place!"

Archimedes: A good meal - meat and lotsa veggies. A bad meal - spaghetti with tons of noodles! Followed by ice cream. I can eat badly with the best of them lol! I'm not sure how my body would respond to low meat quite truthfully....I "sense" that it needs more than what you're taking in? I could be wrong of course! But I 100% agree that I'm far from where I need to be on my veggie intake. Have you ever heard of Dr. Berg? Thoughts on him? Also, any thoughts on intermittent fasting? Just curious!

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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OBIESMOM2's Photo OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (260,158)
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3/7/18 6:26 P

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keep trying -

I've learned something from every 'diet' I've tried.

WW taught me portion control.
South Beach taught me better food choices.
Whole30 made it clear that I feel 100% better when I eat REAL food.

I, too have seen the studies pointing to how addictive sugar is. Unfortunately ag companies have deep pockets and they pay a LOT of money to keep pushing their unhealthy foods. They really focus on kids, to get them hooked for life. The same way tobacco companies did.


The most handicapped person in the world is a negative thinker; a person who has the skills, abilities, talents and tools, yet chooses not to use them.
~Heather Whitestone

Forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen


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3/7/18 6:16 P



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JDMMJDMM,

If you know that eating more veggies helps to reduce your cravings for sweet treats, then it's time to stock up on more veggies. Since St Patrick's Day is coming up, cabbage, carrots and onions are cheap. Why not make the family an old fashioned boiled dinner ? The cabbage, onions and carrots are loaded with vitamins, nutrients and fiber. When you pick out the corned beef, pick out a smaller cut. When you load your plate, make sure there are more veggies than meat.

As my eating habits have evolved (and yours will too), I've decreased the amount of meat I eat. I'm not a vegetarian yet, but I'm not far off. When I started my journey, there was more meat on my plate than veggies. Now there are more veggies than meat.

Also, I'm not gluten intolerant or diabetic. I've never had a problem eating bread or pasta or rice, etc. My problem wasn't the carbs. My problem was I ate way too much. I not only had a sweet tooth I needed to learn to rein in, but I suffered from portion distortion too. Don't people eat a half chicken at a meal ? Why not ? I did. I used to go to KFC and buy the 4 piece meal for lunch. that's a half a chicken with sides. I was easily consuming 3,000+ calories a day.

Who knew ? Portion control, macro nutrients, fiber, eating colorful fruit and veggies are things I had to learn about.

The problem with diets is that they are a short term solution. In order to lose weight and keep it off, this has to be for life. That's why the extremes in any direction just don't work. You need to find that happy medium of nutrition and exercise that keep you going for life.

That's why I asked what you consider a good meal and a bad meal. Take the recipes you have now and find ways to make them more healthy. For me, that meant learning to eat more fresh fruit and veggies. How about a nice boiled dinner this weekend ?


MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/7/18 5:43 P

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For instance if I had to deal with two nor easters in a row like @ARCHIMEDESII I'm afraid I would be drowning my sorrows in Cheetos cheese puffs. Or whatever equivalent Aldis sells.



MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/7/18 5:36 P

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I honestly wasn't trying to be discouraging. I too suffer from a vicious cycle. My triggers are my period and the weather. I just spent three weeks floundering like a fish. I feel back on track now.

Before that. I had been doing pretty good. Like for two months I had been doing quite well.

Edited by: MANDIETERRIER1 at: 3/7/2018 (17:39)

JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/7/18 1:54 P

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thank you, Archimedes....I relate to your history. And I think, moving forward, I do need to INCREMENTALLY make changes. These extremes just aren't working....I have to face that fact. And it DOES seem that when I get more volume in via vegetables (moreso than fruit..which makes sense from glycemic index perspective) that that translates into better food days for me. I appreciate your insights!

Edited by: JDMMJDMM at: 3/7/2018 (13:54)
Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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ARCHIMEDESII's Photo ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (202,477)
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3/7/18 1:14 P



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JDMMJDMM,

Like many people trying to lose weight, you've been a yo yo dieter. We have all been in your shoes. You go from one extreme to another and can't seem to find a common middle ground. I can't even begin to tell you how long it took for me to find the right balance of nutrition and exercise.

As other members have noted. Some times binge eating it's about what we're eating, it's about what's eating us. that may sound cliche, but it's true. We may just not want to admit it. We want to be able to blame something or someone else for our own failures to lose weight. This is what I have learned from my own years of yo yo dieting. To quote, Harry Truman,"the buck stops here". Twice in my life I've weighed over 200+ pounds. 15 or so years ago, I made a decision that was not going to happen a third time.

One thing I knew was that something needed to change. I knew a diet wasn't going to work. What did I do differently ? Instead of going through any extremes, I just started with some simple weekly changes. I knew I was eating too many desserts/treats. So I set a goal to limit the amount of brownies/cupcakes I ate. I wasn't eating enough fresh fruit/veggies. So I set a goal to increase the amount of veggies I ate each week. As I progressed through the weeks and months, I kept making simple changes that (over time) helped me learn to eat better.

And that's what I'm going to suggest to you. Instead of going on a diet that will guarantee ending in failure, just start with some simple changes you know you can stick too for LIFE and not the amount of time it takes to lose weight.

You've mentioned the foods you can't eat. Okay, so what can you eat ? What about fresh fruit and veggies ? If I were to go back in time and give myself one piece of advice that would help me lose weight and be healthy, it would be to increase the amount of fresh fruit and veggies I ate to 6-9 servings each and every day.

There was a time I would routinely eat 2-3 chocolate bars. Today I eat 2-3 pieces of fruit for snacks. One thing I learned is that eating more fresh fruit and veggies helped to decrease my urge to eat sweets. And I'll admit it. I do have a sweet tooth. I can eat my weight in coffee cakes and sticky buns. If I do that, I'll be 200+ pounds again. It's true. Sugar is very addictive. It took me years to learn to practice portion control around sweets.

Here's what I suggest for a first step towards learning to eat more healthy.

Why not take the meals you are eating and try to find ways to make them more healthy. Could you post an example of a meal you would consider "good" or a meal you consider "bad" ? We could give you ideas of how to make a bad meal better. It's step away from dieting and a step towards living a healthy lifestyle.


PS - At my highest weight, my BMI was over 34. So I was a lot larger than you when I decided enough was enough. Don't think you can't do this, but it can be done. My BMI is now 21-22.




Edited by: ARCHIMEDESII at: 3/7/2018 (13:15)
JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/7/18 1:08 P

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gipper! you hit the nail on the head. I, too, have battled this for many years. I focus on the fact that I AM overweight right now (Body mass index approximately 29)...but the fact is that if I didn't resist it (whatever "it" is...the grip and the hold that foods tend to have on me), I could easily be much, much bigger. It's a battle....and I'm winning it in some ways....losing in others. And diet, fat hormones, endorphins....you're right - it's an incomplete science. It is hard at times to gain the intrinsic motivation to overcome - sometimes extrinsic is needed. But even with BOTH, and I do have both, it's STILL SO HARD. Continuing on the journey toward health and balance...and wishing everyone in this thread success and happiness on theirs as well!

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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GIPPER1961's Photo GIPPER1961 Posts: 769
3/7/18 1:00 P

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I think the subject of addiction and food is one that needs to be studied seriously. I have some experience here and there are obviously differences between hard addictions like drugs and alcohol, most obviously that binge eating sugar has no chance to kill anyone unless they do something like choke on vomit, where drugs obviously can and do kill, but I can say that the emotional hold that any behavior can have on someone is very much addition like if you use it for comfort.

Also I encourage anyone to see a counselor when going through these symptoms as many people said but just like in traditional addictions the sufferer must do the hard work of finding different diversions. This is difficult and should not be glossed over. Addiction to anything whether substance or behavioral tends to be a learned diversion from a perceived painful occurrence and how you react to it is very individual.

I think our language confuses this, we hear someone say oh I am so addicted to soda, or chips, but that is not the same as what i am talking about. I am talking about full blown not having any control over the next bite because you just can't stop. I have personally experienced this my entire life and work very hard to get past it. The advice about being your own cheerleader and some of the others is good advice but sometimes it is easier said than done.

As for science it is looking more at this but behavioral studies are difficult. So many are huge observational studies for obvious reasons, it is difficult and expensive to house people and watch their every moment for months at a time. Because of this it is very hard to generalize successful interventions for these things both traditional addictions and compulsive behavior as the triggers are so individual.

I have empathy for anyone going through this and can tell you there are ways to deal with it, and in my own experience it is never as dark as it seems when you are going through it and never as great as it seems when you are having success. Keep looking for your answers you can see improvements. Some people stop the destructive behaviors most of the time and some people are able to cut down the occurrence. The answers are all in how you react and what works to keep you out of the cycle

Edited by: GIPPER1961 at: 3/7/2018 (13:03)
It is not the mistake that causes the serious damage. It is the mistake that you make of defending the first mistake that causes it, Einstein


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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/7/18 12:58 P

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I guess I have a hard time being motivated by discouraging words. That's all. (Yours wasn't the only discouraging reply, for what it's worth.)

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/7/18 12:18 P

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I'm sorry that my advice wasn't suitable for you. It is mine alone. Anecdotal and no scientific basis.

I have viewed My 600 lbs Life. I feel for those people. That's all I can do. I don't understand their struggle. Well somewhat as I am a binge eater. Doesn't change my mind though.

Have a good day and good luck on your journey. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Edited by: MANDIETERRIER1 at: 3/7/2018 (12:22)

JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/7/18 11:31 A

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I mentioned I can't eat grains....I didn't say I allowed sugars, did???...I thought not consuming sugars was a given! I'm a train ready to derail if I eat any of the following, quite frankly: grains, sweets, chips, cereal, crackers, pasta, BBQ sauce, peanut butter...it's a long list..

this might not hold true for you but it holds true for me.

and to answer the other post..have you not seen the tv shows about morbidly obese people who can no longer walk? my 600 lb life...they have lost everything because of food...including their very lives in some cases.

unless you've read the study...don't assume it's not correct.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0000698

this thread has proven more discouraging to me than helpful. moving along.

Edited by: JDMMJDMM at: 3/7/2018 (12:05)
Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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LADYSTARWIND's Photo LADYSTARWIND SparkPoints: (85,231)
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3/7/18 2:01 A

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JDMMJDMM.... an interesting observation: you said you can't allow grains in because it's a train ready to go off the tracks. However... you can allow sugar in?? Unless you truly have a gluten intolerance, grains are far more nutritious for you than sugar, right?! Somewhere along this Journey, you might discover that "grains" AND "sugar" aren't the issues... but the 'rules' and 'reasoning' we've adopted is. Calling one addictive, and the other not, isn't productive.

I guess my point is that one of the keynote pieces I've learned on this Journey is to allow myself to change my perspective. Many foods I "thought" I wouldn't like, or foods that I did like have different assessments now--LOL Be open to those changes. As you boot out sugar because it has no nutrition, and allow in grains in reasonable portions which give you good things... your body might no longer have 'addictive cravings' for sugar. Focus on making positive changes by finding the healthier foods which support your body's needs...rather than the negative points of change by saying "I won't, I can't, I shouldn't" Deprivation never made anyone happy nor made for a lasting plan. All the best,
patti


Patti
"The only thing we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf: Lord of the Rings


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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,641
3/7/18 12:03 A

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I would take those "studies" with a grain of salt. Are they peer reviewed and published in Pub Med?

I have never heard of anyone giving up on everything. Or losing their job and family. Over a sugar addiction. I have heard of people losing everything because of cocaine addiction.

Or losing everything because of an alcohol addiction. Alcohol is legal, as you know. Going through fits. To get their next alcohol high.

As you can tell. I don't believe that sugar and cocaine are near comparable on the addiction scale.

I think perfection and strict diets are evil. The people who sell them. Want to keep you bound. If you ever succeeded. They would be unemployed.

Good luck on your journey



Edited by: MANDIETERRIER1 at: 3/7/2018 (00:04)

JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/6/18 10:12 A

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wow...a lot of information here. I appreciate the time the recent posters took to convey the info.

I have mixed feelings about some of it, to be honest. Scientific studies have shown that sugar is 6-8x more addicting than cocaine. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not trying to use the word "addiction" or "addict" as an excuse. I genuinely want to succeed (don't we all). It just helps me understand, from a physiologic perspective, WHY it's such a challenge.

Also, I disagree with another reply in that just because a name has a diet (example: Paleo) doesn't mean it's not valuable. The principles underlying a specific plan either are good or they aren't. For me, I can't allow grains in (as Weight Watchers allows).....it's a train ready to go off the tracks. Perhaps one person can...I just don't think I can.

I do agree with many things stated...and I'm going to re-read again for other valuable pearls. Again, many thanks.

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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ETHELMERZ's Photo ETHELMERZ Posts: 21,534
3/6/18 3:29 A

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Make an appointment with a dietitian, if the dietitian doesn’t work, see a counselor of some sort. This is about more than food.......

URBANREDNEK Posts: 1,764
3/4/18 10:52 P

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@NIRERIN

This is one of the best posts I have ever seen - clear, concise, and absolutely down-to-earth and realistic. I wish there were some way to make this a "sticky" at the top of the forum - or that you would post it in the "Community Feed" so that more people would see it.

Thanks for always having a contribution that points out simple actions, with no drama or angst or even motivation required.

Sir Terry Pratchett:

"Science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. It is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good."


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ZIGGYSTARSHAY's Photo ZIGGYSTARSHAY Posts: 676
3/4/18 10:22 P

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You need to be a cheerleader for yourself, not a bully! Work on building a healthy relationship with food. Cook a new recipe, make room for an extra veg on your plate, read a Cooking Light magazine for inspiration. Work on one thing at a time.

We all have 'tricks' that work for us, and take those and apply what works in YOUR life. I can't keep snacks, sweets, or anything 'grab-worthy' in the house because I am a reformed snacker. I have one piece of Dove dark chocolate after dinner at night, and as crazy as it sounds, it's all I need to curb the sweets craving.

Write goals down - I love crossing things off of a list, I find it rewarding. So, slow down, take things a day at a time and you will get there. Advocate for yourself and you will succeed! We're all on your side.



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NIRERIN Posts: 14,348
3/4/18 6:25 P

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I think you really need to ditch this idea of perfection. Ten days, in the grand scheme of things, means nothing. Low carb, high fat, paleo isn't a fix all for everyone and if it keeps not being sustainable then perhaps you could try cherry picking the things that you like the most and find the easiest from that style and and work those in around other choices that work for you but are not true to the other "plan."

Personally I think that addict is a word that gets thrown around a lot. One of the issues that I have with this is that it makes what is going on seem like something bigger than you that you can't take on. I really do think that that words we use and how we approach certain things can help determine the outcome. And identifying as an addict can almost be a reason to give up before you even start. Yes, you like sweet things. Yes, you need to find a way to work some of these things into your calorie range. It took me a year to cut back from adding two Tablespoons of sugar into every mug of tea I drank and every bowl of cereal I ate. Just that one change took me a year to wean off. While it seems like a really long time for something so small, it was really great. Slowly lowering the amount I added by the half teaspoon took some time, but it allowed my taste buds to gradually get used to not being overloaded with sugar all the time. It was not painful or difficult to wean myself off, but it did take a long time, again about a year. But you know what? I did it in 2005-2006 or 2006-2007 and it stuck. I still drink things black (most of the time because I like it that way. I do occasionally and intentionally have a teaspoon in some cups of tea, but I no longer have to have it and the no longer having to have it makes a huge difference) and don't add sugar to sugared cereals (I actually don't really eat cereal anymore at all). I haven't reverted or yo-yoed or fought madly against it because I took the time to make a change that I really needed to make. Fruit actually tastes sweet now that I am not used to massive sugar overload, which has opened up a lot of fruit dishes to be able to satisfy my sweet tooth along with providing nutrients my body needs.

I think one of the most important things that you can do is to find foods that you like and that work in your calorie range and eat them. I feel like most premade plans are not suited to your taste preferences, cooking skills, time and budget. So take what you like and find easy and mix it with other things that you like and find easy. If you're not where you need to be calorie wise, and it can take a few weeks or months to step down to where you need to be for some people, make tweaks to what you are already reverting to instead of following some random plan to the letter. If you like South Beach fish and that ricotta dessert stuff, have it. But if you also really like potatoes, perhaps try baking a potato and topping it with salsa or broccoli and cheese or a lentil vegetable curry. If you like those pickle, lunch meat and cheese roll up things, have them. But if you want bread now and again, make bruschetta and top it with olives and tomatoes and other chopped up vegetables or have a sandwich and have an oil and vinegar based coleslaw as your side. It's less important to follow someone else's way to a t than it is to find foods that you like that fit in your calorie range. When you find foods that you like that fit into your calorie range it's easier to eat them because you're not sacrificing anything to eat something that you like and enjoy. Yes, it takes a long time to sort out what you like and enjoy, especially if you are changing your tastebuds and habits along the way. But it's not a change that happens in a day, a week, a month or even a year. It's an evolution and a process and sometimes you don't end up where you think you'd end up but where you end up is the right place for you. The more you have to continually force a thing, the harder it is for it to stick. It's much easier in the long run to start where you are and make small changes to get yourself where you need to be.

Comparing yourself to where you were a week, a month and a year ago tends to be a much more productive exercise than measuring yourself against someone else's ideal.

Have you ever considered talking to a licensed mental health professional? I ask because the emotional eating, the perfectionism and failure cycle, while common enough problems, can be a little easier to manage with someone else guiding you through. They also aren't really things that have anything to do with food, which is why approaching them through food makes both sides even harder than they were in the first place. A member of the clergy could also work here. A trusted friend or family friend could be hit or miss here as well. The general idea is that if you are working through it with someone else that they can help reduce the amount of time you spend working the wrong solutions that go by the wayside by talking through them instead of you having to live through them one after the other. That doesn't mean that you will magically find your final resolution in one try, but it might mean it only takes you thirty instead of a hundred and fifty.

Calories are the fuel our bodies need, just like gas is the fuel that our cars need. If you fill up half your gas tank, your car will not make it 400 miles. Your body is just like your car. The point of calories are to fuel your body for the day. Being overweight does mean you have a bit of extra gas stashed away here and there, but it doesn't mean you can use up all those extra bits at once. The end goal of calories is for your intake to balance out with your output. While you are losing weight you need your intake to be just a little bit lower than your output. Losing weight isn't like limbo where you want your calories to go as low as possible. You want to cover most of your calories (and nutrients) through food and then draw a little bit out of your fat stores to cover the deficit in intake and output. There isn't any change that you can make in a day, a week, a month or even a year that will balance out even the past six years, much less twenty three. This is a long game, which is why short bursts do not matter in the long run, it is what you consistently revert to that has the day. Changing what you do day to day by babysteps means that you are changing what you revert to, which is what holds true over time.

Start playing with averages. If you burn 1700 cals a day, that is 620,500 calories over the course of a year. If you overeat by 1000 cals one day, that is .2% (and yes, that's a decimal there, so a fifth of a percent) of your yearly calories. If you didn't eat at all one day that is .3% of your yearly calories (again, a third of a percent). 100 cals over the course of 365 days adds up to 36,500 cals, which is 7% of your yearly calories even though it is a small, day to day change. Those small changes are what really adds up and makes a difference over time rather than small, odd streaks here and there. Those ten days you were talking about before? They round up to 3% of your yearly total, or half of what making a 100 cal a day change would.

Edited by: NIRERIN at: 3/4/2018 (18:31)
-google first. ask questions later.

GOINGFORSKINNY's Photo GOINGFORSKINNY Posts: 610
3/4/18 8:43 A

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This may or may not be what you want to hear but knock off the fasting first of all. That's not going to give you results with any kind of staying power. Personally, I don't think any of those "diets" that have names are going to bring too many people success..there are exceptions to the rule, but you know what...if they worked, nobody would be fighting the battle.

Counting calories (or points or macro's etc.) is the way to go in most cases.

What does work time and time again is eating a balanced healthy diet that includes fruits and vegetables and a good source of protein and a little bit of healthy fat here and there. What doesn't work is thinking that something else will do the trick.

Good luck to you in your journey!!

"Success is holding on when you feel like letting go."



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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
2/28/18 12:41 P

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I appreciate both of your replies and agree with both, actually.

1) I am going extreme ...extreme good to extreme bad....very quickly and very "yoyo"....good point

2) I'm a binge eater, I guess you're right. And I'm not really sure why. I think I was born with a big appetite...but I can also see how emotion plays into. I need to think on this some more. Thanks for bringing that point up.

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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GIPPER1961's Photo GIPPER1961 Posts: 769
2/28/18 12:29 P

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I am a long time binge eater. one thing to ask yourself. is binging out of hunger or is it covering up some emotional or lifestyle trial? Both are common but answering that for yourself may be the first step.

Some people binge for stress,or emotions or many other things, some just because they let themselves become to hungry. Finding out your why may go a long way to stopping it

It is not the mistake that causes the serious damage. It is the mistake that you make of defending the first mistake that causes it, Einstein


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SPARK_COACH_JEN's Photo SPARK_COACH_JEN Posts: 66,068
2/28/18 12:03 P

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I think a few things might be happening. First, it sounds like you're trying to make too many changes at once. When you go from eating whatever you want to a very restrictive diet, it's going to be really tough to stay consistent. Any changes you make to your eating plan should be things you feel like you can live with forever. That's why I'm not a fan of diets, fasts or anything that forces you to eat in a way you can't sustain. That's a great way to ensure the yo-yo ing continues.

My suggestion would be to set a few small goals to work toward over the next week or so, then slowly build on those. For instance, try cutting back on sugary snacks (not necessarily eliminating them completely), drink more water or add 10 minutes of exercise to your daily routine. Although these aren't huge changes, they can add up to big results when done consistently. Then you can work on adding more goals once you get the first few mastered.

Hope that gives you a few things to think about.

Coach Jen

"You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing that we call "failure" is not the falling down but the staying down." Mary Pickford

"No matter how slow you go, you are still lapping everybody on the couch."
JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
2/28/18 11:33 A

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So, here's my cycle. (btw, I'm 38 yrs old and weight 177 lbs. at 5'5" tall) I have been fighting the weight battle most of my life since age 15. And I've been winning...up until my early 30's...I've been overweight now for a good six years - and my trajectory is not good right now. I'm my heaviest ever right now. I'm a sugar addict. Plain and simple. And I literally can't shake it. I will eat well for two days (low carb, high fat, paleo"ish") ....then on day 3 or 4, I cave again - sometimes binge, sometimes just eat "maintenance level of calories of my choosing."

Then, I hate myself (and fixate and obsess really badly) and I'll be like "ok, I'll fast for 24 hrs then start over and do better." And I'll survive the fast approx. 30% of the time. The other 70% of the time I'll just not fast and eat marginally well (or poorly).

My eating patterns are so erratic. I've even had my husband put a padlock on certain cabinets in the kitchen...and take away my cash/credit card for a few days so I can't cheat.

If I could just get 10 good days in a row under my belt, I think I'd become ketotic and my appetite would get much lower...and I could stay the course. BUT I CAN'T DO IT...then I feel like such a complete FAILURE (which makes me want to eat dairy queen even more!!!)

How do I break this cycle without going to an expensive fat camp????? I NEED HELP!!!

I'm so discouraged...and I hate feeling this way. And I hate being so hungry. I'm always hungry.....

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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