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NITEMAN3D's Photo NITEMAN3D SparkPoints: (272,757)
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11/10/17 1:32 A

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Here's more of interest:

www.aacn.org/newsroom/weight-bias-may-impe
de-care-for-patients-with-obesity


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Dave A.- South Central PA, USA

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,581
11/8/17 11:07 P

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I agree with enforcing the current gun laws. New gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens.

Never,never in a million years. Did I think someone would use a box truck as a weapon. Should we control box trucks?

I don't own a gun. I've never fired one. I have no desire to do so. I have family that do and they're a good shot. We're a proud 2A family

~Just my .02 cents. Not sure that it is worth that much~

erinwroteablogyall.blogspot.
com/2018/04/what-happened.html


NITEMAN3D's Photo NITEMAN3D SparkPoints: (272,757)
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11/8/17 1:34 A

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The reduced treatment of the elderly has already begun (in the US at least) and as you point out, it's not going to improve, but rather more and more reasons for palliative care instead of actual costlier disease treatment will be presented.

As regards the gun laws in the US, all that needs to be discussed is why the existing laws are not being enforced. Our catch and release system of "justice" only proves to people that they can do whatever the heck they want to do. Strict enforcement backed up with harsher conditions and longer sentences for violent offenders is needed. Maybe some discussion of what constitutes "news" and what is "entertainment" would also be helpful. OTH, probably not because there is no longer any compromise on anything today. Everybody thinks in terms of "my way or the highway".

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Dave A.- South Central PA, USA

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


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ZRIE014 Posts: 84,701
11/8/17 12:51 A

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when will it ever going to be right time talk about people being killed by guns. the nra, president and republican congress always state that it is too early to discuss gun laws after a shooting. but they never state when it is time to discuss it because they never want to discuss gun laws.

MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,581
11/8/17 12:20 A

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I agree with Anarie.

So when is the government going to start saying. Eh, you're old. That means you're not worth the investment. Since you'll probably die soon anyway.

Or you have this or that physical disability. You're not worth the cost of the surgery.

If someone needs an emergency surgery. Their worthiness will be determined on a case by case basis. At least that is what the article said. Sounds great until it's your family member denied life saving care.

Sure it's not at that point yet. Just wait. It will be.

It's a slippery slope and ableist to assign worthiness. Just my humble opinion.


~Just my .02 cents. Not sure that it is worth that much~

erinwroteablogyall.blogspot.
com/2018/04/what-happened.html


ANARIE's Photo ANARIE Posts: 13,205
11/5/17 4:19 P



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Nope, nope, nope, nope. This is not a decision that should be made by politicians; this should be between the patient and his or her doctor. This decision says "You can't have this operation because you're fat." It will be much more effective if your individual doctor says, "I think you should have this operation, but your weight makes it more risky and will slow your healing," IF that is true for the particular patient and the particular surgery.

When you make it a blanket prohibition, you're basically punishing people for being obese by removing their access to non-emergency health care. Why not just kick them out of the National Health altogether? Make them live like Americans with only the emergency room. Then the UK can have people going bankrupt because of medical bills, just like the US, and the system can pay later when a neglected minor problem becomes a crisis and costs hundreds of times more than early treatment would have done.

Two other really huge problems are that a) Obesity does NOT make *all* elective surgeries more risky or less effective, and b) sometimes the surgery is needed to help treat obesity, not the other way 'round. The example in the article of knee or hip replacement is a good case in point--it's pretty hard to lose a significant amount of weight just by diet when your knees are shot and you can't get out and walk. Other examples would be airway surgeries to treat sleep apnea, which almost always leads to better weight control.

Nope, this is a decision based almost entirely on the belief that obesity is a character flaw, not on medical science. Let doctors and patients make the decision based on each individual case and what's best for the individual patient.



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NITEMAN3D's Photo NITEMAN3D SparkPoints: (272,757)
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11/3/17 8:32 P

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Well, you'll notice I only set the pot out with the stew in it. I was waiting for somebody else to stir it. This is a long and arduous discussion that our lawmakers here in the States are avoiding like the hot potato that it is. It all boils down to money. We (and I mean the entire world) can't afford to just fix everybody up upon request. There has to be some reasonable expectation of return on investment. What I mean by that is, do you provide elective things like joint replacements (to the detriment of all the healthy people who are paying for it?) upon request or do you level the playing field a little first. I'm not suggesting singling anyone out, but if we can (as a group) save money by not just handing out care on demand for secondary issues when a person is afflicted with a separate disease that is going to kill them prematurely anyway?

The US rails on and on about socialized medicine, both pro, and con. The fact is, tax dollars already pay for about 65% of US healthcare anyway. Why does it matter? What we need to do is start twisting arms so that the people who elect to remain unhealthy pay penalties and not the people who make the effort to maintain a healthy body mass, avoid alcohol and drug abuse, avoid risky behavior in general. My DW's insurance actually requires a health assessment and if you fail to complete it, you pay more. Why is that so unacceptable to so many. People making the effort should reap the benefit.

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Edited by: NITEMAN3D at: 11/3/2017 (20:32)
Dave A.- South Central PA, USA

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain


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FAITHP44's Photo FAITHP44 Posts: 8,846
11/3/17 4:58 P

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I live in England, where we get our medical treatment for free. (Well, we pay through taxes and most people pay for prescriptions, but we can have operations and hospital care free unless we choose to go private and pay.)

I'm not sure what the actual cost of a knee replacement is. A friend of mine was told that she needed to lose weight before having the knee replacement op. It upset her at the time - not because they told her to lose weight, but because they should have told her that a few months previously so that she could have taken action. But she set to and lost the weight and then had a successful operation. Their requirement was that she should get her BMI below 40.

My opinion? They should have told her sooner (They told her when she went for the pre-op). But I think, had they told her when they first started discussing a knee replacement, it would have been perfectly fair. The extra weight would put a lot of pressure on the new knee and the operation might have been less effective. As it happened my friend lost a significant amount of weight and gained a whole new lease of life after she eventually had the knee replacement.

There's no way our doctors are going to postpone an urgent operation such as cancer treatment if a person is obese or a smoker but, if a person's lifestyle is going to make an operation (that we get for free) less effective or more risky, I think the NHS has the right to ask that person to make some lifestyle changes first.

Now I'll sit back and let you all shoot me down in flames!! emoticon

I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
Philippians 1:6


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11/2/17 10:20 A

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I believe there are many doctors who won't do elective surgery on current smokers or require very obese people to lose some weight before surgery. The risk of complications is much greater and smokers do not heal well. I know of one person right now who isrequired to stop smoking at least six weeks before her upcoming knee replacement.

MLAN613 Posts: 19,255
11/2/17 6:01 A

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Wow indeed. I don't know what else to say.

Meghan in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA


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JANIEWWJD's Photo JANIEWWJD SparkPoints: (599,151)
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11/1/17 7:55 P

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wow

Janie Garcia Moreno

"WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE"

"PRAYER CHANGES THINGS"

"NEVER PUT A QUESTION MARK WHERE GOD HAS PUT A PERIOD!"

"WHAT THE MIND CAN CONCEIVE AND BELIEVE, IT CAN ACHIEVE!"


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NITEMAN3D's Photo NITEMAN3D SparkPoints: (272,757)
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11/1/17 1:00 P

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www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/health/smokers-obes
e-no-surgery-nhs-uk/index.html


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Dave A.- South Central PA, USA

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