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And another blog post about Ketosis by Dr. Peter Attia, just published

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

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  • RUSSELL_40
    This makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes I have an extra apple, or a side of veggies after working out hard ( for me ), doing a bike ride, swimming laps or playing basketball. Once I even had a gatorade. I never got cravings, or gained weight, which if I did this on a day I just took an easy 45 minute walk, would happen once I get over about 80 total carbs. I am diabetic, so I tend to stay low on my blood glucose ( 70-80 ), and find that exercise lowers this also. I can eat more carbs and stay at a 75 b.g. if I exercise harder.

    So the idea of eating some extra carbs, and staying in ketosis seems possible. It would have to be rare. I don't think most of us work out hard enough to be able to eat 100 extra grams of carbs, but we also won't gain 8 lbs of weight from swelling, since we don't damage our bodies so much. So I can have 120 total grams of carbs on a day I work out vigorously, and I may stay the same weight, but more importantly, I don't get the cravings, or weight gain I get when I kick myself out of ketosis.

    I gain 3-5 lbs if I eat off plan. It is mostly water weight, and I find I can get back into ketosis in about 18-24 hours, depending on how bad I cheat. First I have to burn off the glucose, and then the glycogen, so the more I have carbs, the longer it takes to get through them, and back to burning fat.

    Maybe I missed something, or maybe because I am diabetic, I have actually measured weight loss versus blood glucose levels, but I didn't think anything in this article was news. It seems obvious to me that if you maintain at 50 grams a day, and ate 20 grams a day, or exercised vigorously to drop glycogen levels, that you could save up some carbs, and have 20 on day 1, and 80 on day 2, and average the 50 over the 2 days. Also, since my blood sugars drop a lot if I play basketball, I know I am working deeper into ketosis. If I play for 45 minutes, my blood glucose will drop below 60, and I have to eat some carbs , or I get a low blood sugar.

    As a diabetic I am more sensitive, and have a built in opportunity to get a deficit, which may be why I stay in ketosis at such a high level of carbs, but also have such a weight gain if I cheat. My blood glucose can be 40 or 400 in 2 hours.

    If my b.g. is low, then I would need to eat some carbs to get it back to 80+, and it seems to me that what Peter Attia is doing is trying to replicate this in a non-diabetic body. Since most people won't get that low, he creates a deficit with extreme exercise. All I need to do is skip breakfast, or cut carbs..lol.

    This is one of the reasons why I think all diabetics should be on low carb. It actually works better for us. For the rest of you, you're going to have to go on a 110 mile bike ride to get depleted.. sorry.

    I do wonder if someone eating 5 grams a day for a week, could then have a day at 100 grams, and stay in ketosis. Would they have a deficit, or would the body produce enough glucose over a 24 hour period to prevent a deficit. Maybe for the average healthy person, it has to be a rapid depletion, and then eat the extra carbs, before the body produces glucose.

    I don't think the average person is going to work out that hard, just so they can have a slice of birthday cake . They could work out a lot after a cheat to get back into ketosis quicker though. Of course, they wouldn't have stayed in ketosis this way.
    1728 days ago
  • COYOTE07
    Thanks for the link. Peter is definitely a "keto geek" and there is lots of good information here. There has been a good book published recently that is also quite technical but there is a great summary at: http://diagnosisdiet.com/what-cause
    I am on a restricted ketogenic diet for the treatment of cancer and while I like the idea of exercising in order to be able to eat more carbs and proteins, I have been advised that intense exercise can can actually spark the production of proteins that cancer patients are trying to reduce. "Walk don't run" was the mantra I was given, which was a tough one since I was a dedicated runner before the diagnosis.
    I'm heading over to the Low-carb forum where I can offer some advice to those just starting and share tips with those of you on the keto path.

    1738 days ago
    I'm still in the process of working my way through this blog post. Peter Attia is not always easy to understand but usually has valuable info. If I understand this right he is saying that higher levels of exercise allow higher carb levels while still staying in ketosis. The whys are not entirely clear to me yet.
    1754 days ago
    1754 days ago
    Hmmm. I think his title is rather misleading - he never really addresses the title question in any direct way. However, I did appreciate the links at the bottom. I'll have to follow up on those when I have more time.
    1755 days ago
  • JLKL1980
    Interesting - naturally, it had me refiguring my nutritional tracker formulas. ha ha

    Good article - I saved the website to my favorites.
    1755 days ago

    Comment edited on: 8/28/2013 11:43:03 AM
    So, if I want to indulge in some carbs I should go work out like crazy first? ;)

    Love your blog, btw. I'm new to NK & am finding your posts really helpful.
    1755 days ago
    THIS is a lot to 'digest' if you will pardon the pun.
    i have been interested in this particular method of weight loss for years and have been on many low/no carb regimes.
    i have never achieved a state of ketosis. the most i have achieved is the lightest color on the scale with the keto stix.
    also i feel very horrible without my usual fruits/salads daily.
    everyone on most regimes lost twice/three times the amount of weight in the same amount of time as myself. for every one pound down for me - it was three to five for them.
    chemically and biologically it sounds like a great solution - but unfortunately it just does not work with MY biology.
    having stated all that - i have for the past 30 years stayed away from white flour, processed foods and sugars - including the hidden stuff in condiments etc which i do not use.
    i have to state again that we are being lied to so often and duped with almost everything we buy at the store. i have a small garden in the summer - and try to freeze stuff in season.
    this is war fare!!!! good luck BB
    1755 days ago
    This is too difficult for me to understand by reading. If someone could explain it to me in person I could perhaps understand it.
    1755 days ago
    Thanks a lot for this post.
    I will have to take some time later to read it, but I'll be back to discuss it when I fully digest the material.
    1755 days ago
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