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RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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3/4/14 11:22 A

"Oh, Chicken McNuggets *grimace* As another person who used to work there "back in the day" I can also confirm - they were always pretty grim. I never understood why people would pay as much for six little greasy nuggets as it cost for a whole burger-on-a-bun. And then douse them in bbq and honey-mustard to drown out the weird fryer-fat aftertaste. And yet somehow... they became The Food You Feed Your Children. Coming soon, to every school lunch program near you! Oy vey."

Do not get me started on "kids food" these days. Oh my god. I'm almost just as glad that my vegetarian-by-choice, dairy-free-by-necessity son simply cannot eat most of what passes as healthy options for kids. If we're out at a restaurant and have to settle for some kind of pasta with marinara sauce and a vegetable side, well so be it. We can get him some more protein when we get home. At least it's not the ubiquitous refrain of chicken nuggets and mac and cheese.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/4/14 10:46 A

Been 6 years since I had a nugget Exotec, so I think if I stick to 2 nuggets every 6 years, I will be okay.. emoticon

EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
3/4/14 10:42 A

Diet is a very individual journey, whether for weight loss or just on general principles (which vary for each of us).

I agree, it sounds to me as if the OP's friend was having a crisis of willpower and wanted to relegate it to the OP. That's patently unfair to both parties. You can hardly answer a statement like that, made with attendant longing in tone or expression.

One thing I've noted in many posts across the board at SP is the concept of whether a thing will "fit into" your daily allotments. I find this a peculiar mindset. ??? Do "normal" eaters think this way? It doesn't seem likely to me. Just because you *have* some wiggle room in your daily intake, does that mean you have to use it up? If it's a food you've decided isn't healthy for you, or doesn't support your body's metabolism, why would you eat it just because you "can"? So... you're a bit low on something for a day. No doubt you'll make it up on another day, and probably not too long from now! I know my dailies seem to work out that way. It's a lot easier to balance what I know I should eat (or have decided to eat) with what I have available than it is to keep trying to fiddle with things just because I can. Others' decisions mystify me sometimes.

Another concept that's beginning to be a bit tiresome - for me - is the incessant repetition of the "everything in moderation" mantra. I'm joyful if that works for you... but it wouldn't work for me, since I have plenty of triggers, and one bite of any of them sends the idea of "moderation" right out the window. To have that pushed (and yes, it feels to me just like those who press their dietary plan on others) at me at every turn feels like a value judgment. It's a handy little thing to spout to all and sundry and you feel good about saying it and feel it's a beneficial and welcome admonition to offer to others. But we all have things we believe which fall into that category... and I don't think they're always received with the same sentiment in which they were delivered. I do believe most people intend it to be a supportive remark. But it's just a more insidious form of "meddling" for me. Just my 2¢.

I can't offer any of this from any lofty pedestal. I certainly fall, or occasionally leap, from my chosen nutritional "wagon". I have a serious weakness for those tender, hot, drippy, delectable Krispy Kreme™ glazed donuts, too. Luckily, they're only good to me if they're hot-n-fresh... and our only store here has no drive-through. Praise be. I have other things which I "fall" with too. I try to limit them, naturally. But I own it. It's my decision. I don't pawn it off on my companions, or make excuses. I don't promote complete abstinence from every food I have an occasional crave for. I just try not to let that derail my intent for more than that rare instance.

And RUSSELL -- Mickey D's™ nuggets have *always* been nastified! LOL Our palates do indeed change when we let our bodies remember what real food actually is. Who knows what that stuff under the breading is. If you crave some nuggets - try Chick-Fil-A™. Those are clearly, visibly, *real* chicken nuggets. The breading is minimal. It's about the only fast food I'll even consider any more.

MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (12,338)
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3/3/14 10:46 P

I am glad for your friend seeing that she wants to treat her body to good fuel. I think it is kind to support our friends when they do things that are healthy for them.

AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (0)
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3/3/14 9:25 P

Not exactly sabotage, but not helpful or supportive either.

Of course the friend is ultimately responsible for what goes in her own mouth, but chiding someone about his or her diet choices (especially when you have not actually lost any weight yourself) is probably not doing that person any favors.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/3/14 7:08 P

I have to agree with ANARIE. This is not sabotage. The friend wanted an excuse to eat the doughnuts. In the end, it was her choice. Plus, most of what we cut is not food groups, but individual foods, and it is up to us to replace the vitamins.nutrients we lose by not consuming these foods, or even food groups, if we cut one out.

We all need to take a step back, and realize that while we offer advice to others, it is the individual's final decision. Most of what we offer, is what applies to us. We need to stop and consider that not only is the advice we offer not necessarily going to be taken and used by the OP, but also that the advice offered by other posters, isn't necessarily going to be used by the OP.

We tend to spend all our time posting what we think is right, and then defending it against any other ideas. In truth, many plans work.

The doughnuts might not be great for her friend, and she shouldn't eat them. They could be a trigger food, and she goes off on a binge,

Or.. the doughnuts may have been just enough to keep her on track for the next month, and she cheats once a month, which keeps her sane, and is healthy in a year.

Truthfully, we don't know much about the OP's friend, and how foods affect her. We can't say with any certainty that it was harmful, or helpful to her friends diet ( overall ). What we can say for almost certain, is that the doughnuts probably looked delicious, and just like almost every one of us has done in the past, she complained about not being able to eat donuts, hoping her friend would say something like " Go ahead and have ONE doughnut ", or " Everything in moderation.

We can debate whether doughnuts are food made by the Devil, and whether one should ever eat one, but the choice was ultimately the friend's choice to make, and we all know she was 99% of the way to making the choice herself. If she had told her friend not to eat the doughnut, most likely the friend would have eaten it anyway, but be upset with the OP.

If anything, I feel sorry for the OP, for being put into this situation. The friend didn't want advice, she wanted permission to eat the doughnut. emoticon emoticon
Anything except EAT THE DOUGHNUT, would have been seen as a comment on her friend's health/weight. How she said it didn't matter. Her friend has bigger problems than cutting out one food, or food group.

ICEDEMETER Posts: 1,332
3/3/14 2:01 P

I'm definitely in the "to each their own" camp, as I firmly believe that everyone has to find their own ways of eating and living that work for them. While I can easily do moderation and am comfortable with "generally healthier" rather than "always healthiest", I realize that this is not the right choice for many others.

I am finding that when I'm with friends or family who are also looking at healthier lifestyles and / or losing weight, my best approach has been to outright ask what is the best way to support them in what they want to achieve. Some want the support of someone else saying "no" for them, others want some sympathy in the martyrdom of their "dieting", some want to compare notes to see what tips we can share, while others want some confirmation that it's okay to have an occasional treat. Once I know what they are looking for from me, then I'm no longer guessing (usually wrongly - I totally flunked the "mind reader" course) and it gets much easier and more enjoyable to be around them.

I'm pretty clear about what works for me, but do try to not shove "my way" down anyone's throat. It's easier to avoid doing that when my friends are clear about what their "way" is, and how I can best support them. I don't need to agree with their "way" - I just have to accept it.

MEGAPEEJ Posts: 732
3/3/14 12:19 P

I agree with several others that there's really no nutritional value to a donut, and I wouldn't consider junk or purely sugary treats to be a "food group" that should or shouldn't be cut. I would even say that eliminating donuts and similar treats IS connected to better health.

I agree with another point you make, that completely ruling out any type of food makes me want that food more than anything - but I've also found a mindset of "I can have that anytime, I don't need it right now" for a lot of junk. On the surface it probably looks like I have eliminated a lot of things, when in reality I either have somethings very occasionally, or I just don't prefer that type of food anymore.

LOUNMOUN Posts: 1,334
3/2/14 7:00 P

"I don't believe in doing away with any food or food group unless necessary. I also feel that having a little treat once in a while is better than depriving myself and going way overboard later on, which has happened for me. What are everyone else's thoughts? "

For the most part, I agree that nothing really needs to be off limits completely if you don't go crazy. However, there are foods for me that if I eat just a little then I have a hard time stopping. They are not healthy foods to begin with and I don't need them in my diet. They are high in salt and fat and very low in nutritional value. I don't want to fill up on those kind of calories.
Sometimes I still eat those foods. It isn't the end of the world if I do. I really do try not to eat them in the first place though and just focus on all the other foods I enjoy that aren't a problem for me.

ANARIE Posts: 13,205
3/2/14 5:36 P

There's a difference between "food groups" and individual foods. Eliminating a whole food group requires some thought and planning. They were designated as food groups because the items in them provide some sort of nutrient that is absent or limited in foods outside that group. If you're going to give up grains, for example, it will take a little extra work and planning to get enough fiber and certain minerals-- you'll have to make sure to eat more vegetables and maybe some legumes, for exampe. We already know that if you're vegetarian you need to think more about where you'll get your protein, and if you're vegan you have no choice but to take supplements or brewer's yeast to get some of the B vitamins. You can still be healthy if you give up one major food group, but if you give up two or more, you're going to need a huge amount of knowledge and possibly some outside help.

That's different from cutting out individual foods. No one is going to get sick or have a nutrient deficiency from cutting out refined sugar, or chocolate, or fried foods. Or broccoli, for that matter. There's no one single food that anyone must eat in order to stay healthy. Cutting out junk food like donuts is fine for most people.

As for whether it's advisable to cut out all junk food, that depends in part on the stage of weight control. When you have 50 pounds or more to lose, you can have the occasional 400-calorie junk item and still lose weight. But if the OPs friend is down to the last 20 or so, taking 200 or 300 or 400 calories out of an allowance of 1200-1550 means you're only leaving 1000-1250 calories as your nutrient source. If someone at that stage eats a donut, she's not going to have enough "real" calories left to get her calcium, protein, fiber, iron, and vitamins for that day. She'll have to choose between meeting her calorie goal or meeting her nutrient goals; she can't do both after the donut.

That's why I try not to comment when someone says they "can't" have something. A lot of people here would call the OPs response to her friend "sabotage." (I don't, because to me it's only sabotage if you tie them down, shove food in their mouth, and hold their nose to force them to swallow; or maybe if you lie to them and tell them the donut is nonfat and sugar free.) Generally, if somebody says they wish they could eat something but they "can't," I nod and close the box so they don't have to look at it. It doesn't really matter why they feel they can't-- whether they're allergic or just think it would make them fat, it's still a kindness to help them not eat it.

If you want to spread the word that most people can have the occasional "treat" and still lose weight, the time to do that is when they see you eating something and they ask, "How can you eat that and still lose weight?" Then you're saying, "This works for me" and letting them draw their own conclusion about whether it will work for them as well, instead of implying, "You should eat like I do."

And a little reminder for Russell: There's a difference between CAN eat in moderation and CHOOSE TO eat in moderation. Many people who eat junk food eat too much of it. That doesn't mean that they couldn't eat it in moderation if a) they cared about their weight a little more; b) they were educated about what "moderation" means; and c) they were educated about (and had access to) the healthier but tasty foods they could have instead. Some of us do have impulse control issues around certain foods, but we're not necessarily the majority. Remember, even now, obese people are a minority. Even among the obese and overweight, it's not always caused by a consistent lack of ability to eat in moderation. When I have difficulty controlling my weight, it's not from eating too much junk food all the time; it's from eating a little too mch (not necessarily junk) a few times a month and the normal amount the rest of the time. People can become overweight by eating one extra apple with peanut butter a week for a few years. Nowadays, I have a much harder time resisting an extra egg or a second half-serving of steak than I do saying no to a donut. I think I'm probably more typical than the person who can't have one cookie without turning around and eating the whole bakery. Not saying both types of people don't exist...

AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (0)
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3/2/14 4:21 P

Donuts are not a food group--and they offer very little bang for your nutritional buck. Not eating a food that is essentially trash does not seem like an extreme approach to me.

You could have added several healthy, filling, nutritious things to your diet that day instead of having a donut. It's a trade-off.

Personally I find donuts disgusting and would not eat one even if I were not trying to lose weight.

The whole idea that not eating junk food is some kind of deprivation is a paradigm that you might want to rethink. If you are filling your body with tasty, healthy, filling foods, you are not DEPRIVED--you just want something that isn't good for you.

Edited by: AZULVIOLETA6 at: 3/2/2014 (16:26)
LULUBELLE65 SparkPoints: (37,106)
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3/1/14 7:28 A

If I really wanted to donut, I would eat the donut, but I would only want the donut if it was from Glazed and Infused, or a bakery or some other specialty shop. If it was a Dunkin Donut or a Krispie Kreme, I would tell myself that if I really wanted one, I could stop at DD tomorrow and get one. And by the next day I would have forgotten it.

I adore treats, but they are not treats if you have them all the time.

BUNNYKICKS Posts: 2,433
3/1/14 1:21 A

As for the original topic - I personally would have passed on the surprise!! Treat Donuts in the Boardroom!

But I would have used language like "oh, donuts. Nahh, i don't really want one right now." or "Oh donuts, those look good... but i'm not going to have one this morning." I find it more empowering to think of these things as a choice (which - when it comes right down to it - it's ALL about choice, isn't it) than to look at it as rules-and-prohibitions.

In the earliest days of what has become my Lifestyle Change - I wouldn't have attempted to eat donuts "in moderation." I was better off steering clear of stuff like that for awhile, giving my palate a chance to adjust and giving my brain a little break from the internal struggle of always having to think about "could I? should I? what would i have to give up to make this fit in my day? will i feel guilty later? will it taste as good as it looks? will it set me off on a donut-eating rampage? Will it cause me to be hungry/sugar-crashy later?" OH TOO MUCH MENTAL ENERGY. It was so much easier to just live my life by saying "nah, not today" to ALL of it, for awhile. And then added "treat" foods back in, selectively, once I got a handle on how to eat.

BUNNYKICKS Posts: 2,433
3/1/14 1:14 A

Oh, Chicken McNuggets *grimace* As another person who used to work there "back in the day" I can also confirm - they were always pretty grim. I never understood why people would pay as much for six little greasy nuggets as it cost for a whole burger-on-a-bun. And then douse them in bbq and honey-mustard to drown out the weird fryer-fat aftertaste. And yet somehow... they became The Food You Feed Your Children. Coming soon, to every school lunch program near you! Oy vey.

2/28/14 4:06 P

Yeah, Russell, the chicken McNuggets were always that bad, it's your palate that changed. :) I used to go beserk over Arby's potato cakes. I had one recently and it was disgusting. The grease pooled up in a little puddle in the cardboard holder and I could've sworn they hadn't changed the grease in the fryer since the 80's. I'm not opposed to a little fried food once in awhile, but next time it will be something I make at home.

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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2/28/14 3:01 P

Re: the donuts, that explains it. I'm more used to Dunkin' Donuts cake-type donuts -- a bit bigger than your average Krispy Kreme, more fat, less sugar. I happened to look them up a week or so ago and they started at around 325 calories I believe. Otherwise we're on the same page, no big deal.

I think the whole moderation thing gets quickly bogged down in semantics over just what IS moderation, and also in a sort of "pick your poison" sense regarding how your own brain works. There's nothing about choosing to eat one donut once per week (or one 100 cal package of cookies once per day, or whatever else) that inevitably leads to eating more. There really truly is not. My maternal grandparents, for example, had one scoop of vanilla ice cream every evening for at least their entire adult lives. They never indulged in sweets other than that (except for holidays, or if a visitor brought something by), and they were always underweight, if anything. My own parents, on the other hand, never indulged in dessert at all (again outside of holidays and so on), and my father's been fighting his weight his whole life, maybe in part due to getting into a habit of grabbing some kind of snack at any given excuse outside the house, since he knew he wouldn't get any at home. I personally just am plain not going to eat certain things at all anymore; they're not appealing enough to take even a small risk over. But other things I eat regularly or irregularly in small amounts and am having no trouble at all with.

I think it's more that, given the plethora of high calorie munchies available these days, if a person doesn't set some kind of limits (or have some limits set for them), it becomes almost trivially easy to overeat by just enough calories to start to gain weight. And it certainly doesn't help that this stuff, with all its salt and sugar and yummy-fatty-mouth feel, is so "addictive" -- eat enough of it, often enough, and it seriously screws up your taste buds and your brain such that you want more and more of it, and the healthy stuff often starts to seem far less appealing. So you set rules for yourself, or you suffer. I think many people who try moderation and fail either do not set those kinds of rules (and try to get by on "well, I just won't have that much ...) or they fool themselves into thinking that far larger amounts than what I at least consider "moderate" will still be OK. To go back to the donut example -- if someone has a regular habit of meeting their friend every Saturday at Krispy Kreme for one donut and a cup of coffee, and that's their sole real indulgence for a normal week, I'd be willing to bet they'd be ok. If on the other hand they think they can get away with Krispy Kreme every single morning, plus three slices of pizza on Friday night, and drinks with friends on Saturday -- just because they can fit it in their calories ... well I'd expect there may be issues.

As for the McNuggets -- as someone who used to work there back in the day, they've always sucked. Probably you've just gotten used enough to real food by now to notice.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
2/28/14 12:58 P

"Statistically it is probably true that most people can eat everything in moderation. "

Seriously? A majority of people in America are overweight. Obviously, they can't eat in moderation. Whether that is 60% of Americans, or 70%, based on the latest STATISTICS, both are a majority, which would be " most people ". We think we can eat things in moderation, but statistically that isn't true.

Zorbs mentioned McDonald's, so I just have to ask. I ate some McNuggets the other day ( just 2/ moderation emoticon ), and they tasted funny after I swallowed them. I don't remember them having an aftertaste. Are they made, or cooked differently now? They tasted horrible, and I wonder if it is me, or how they make them. Probably been about 6 years since I had a McNugget, but I remember them being delicious, and was very disappointed, which was probably what let me moderate my intake. Maybe it was the fact that I didn't use any sauce?

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 2/28/2014 (12:59)
GIPPER1961 Posts: 769
2/28/14 12:42 P

I find this to be a completely personal and individual thing. Many people fit into the model previously mentioned that they fear lack of control. This to me is perfectly understandable. Statistically it is probably true that most people can eat everything in moderation. The people that can't fit into that model are outside the norm, but they find success where they can. If that means following a eating plan that many would deem 'bad' or just skipping a type of food that is what they do. The eventual evaluation should be does it make them healthier or not?

ZORBS13 SparkPoints: (202,123)
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2/28/14 12:35 P

When I was actively losing, I cut out junk completely and gradually allowed myself to have controlled amounts as I reached maintenance.

There's still some things I won't eat and will never eat again, anything from McDonalds, for example.

Edited by: ZORBS13 at: 2/28/2014 (12:35)
2/28/14 12:17 P

Renata, I was basing my comparison on this: A Krispy Kreme glazed donut (my gold standard for donuts) is 200 calories; a chocolate-glazed one is 260 calories. A raspberry-filled Krispy Kreme donut is 290 calories. My ideal slice of toast with peanut butter is Dave's Killer Bread Good Seed (110 calories) plus at least one Tbsp. of peanut butter (95 calories), but I don't like to be stingy with the PB, so probably more. Two eggs is about 140 calories, and if you put only vegetables in it, and no cheese or anything fatty, maybe you'd be around 150 calories and would have enough calories left for maybe a very small apple or a clementine, but not a lot more.

For really gross donut calories, look at a maple bar: 460 calories. I crave those sometimes and they're about as nutritionally worthless as you can get.

MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 17,581
2/28/14 11:38 A

Some things work for some people.

Me personally I don't cut out any of the food groups. Including the sixth unofficial food group and that is Junk Food. I don't eat from that group often. But if there is something really good, like my mom made me a birthday cake. I am not going to turn my nose up at it.

EELPIE Posts: 2,700
2/28/14 11:12 A

It depends, really. For me, I have stuff that I still enjoy (chocolate, etc.) I can't live on a plan that would totally exclude something that I enjoy for the rest of my life.

Some people, however, maybe know what a "trigger" for them is (maybe it's doughnuts), and they know they can't stop at just one, so they avoid them totally. I give them props for that.

I've excluded white flour products, bread, etc. from my diet, but that's for health reason - I just think they are garbage for my body.

For me, the most important part of your thread was this statement: "am for all for different plans as long as they aren't pushing their belief on me as how I should and need to live my life."

Sigh. Yes. I personally don't give 2 cents for anyone's plan but mine. I don't care if someone thinks X is evil. Whatever floats your boat. Just leave me alone with my plan, and you do yours.

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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2/28/14 10:52 A

"On the other hand -- for the calories in one doughnut you could have a piece of whole wheat toast with peanut butter or a small omelette and you'd be less likely to have a crash in energy two hours later."

More than that actually. Donuts mostly run 300 or 400 calories despite their small size, due to being incredibly high in fat. Ones that are also especially high in sugar (not all are completely ridiculous in that regard, oddly enough) can be even higher. A single slice of toast with peanut butter or a two-egg omelet (unless prepared with a ridiculous amount of oil) would be considerably less. You could have that, plus another hundred or two calories left over to fill up with something yummy. Or a donut.

2/28/14 10:30 A

I tend to still not eat enough fruits and veggies. I didn't have alot of these growing up and still keep hearing my mothers voice in my head saying these are too expense. We can get chips cheaper to go along with those hot dogs and bologna. I am still breaking long learned habits.

2/28/14 10:19 A

I think a lot of people need some kind of hook or gimmick to psychologically gear themselves up for weight loss. I'm not talking about people who legitimately need to avoid, say, refined sugar or alcohol or wheat protein, but average people who have no health reason to avoid one food group. Some people hope one drastic lifestyle change will solve the complex, lifelong issue of managing weight and learning to eat nutritiously. The truth is success usually lies in learning to make small good decisions every day, not one big harsh cut you can't stick with.

On the other hand -- for the calories in one doughnut you could have a piece of whole wheat toast with peanut butter or a small omelette and you'd be less likely to have a crash in energy two hours later. There are good reasons to avoid calorie-dense, sweet, fried foods. I like an eating plan that leaves me with choices. If I really want a doughnut, I'm going to eat one. The more uneccessarily strict a diet is, the less likely it's going to become a way of life.

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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2/28/14 10:19 A

While I wouldn't eliminate donuts exactly, I wouldn't be taking one in that situation either. Why would I? There's nothing about it appealing enough to me anymore to make it worth the calories and how crappy it would make me feel as a substitute for a more suitable breakfast or snack.

"Have the junk food just because you can shove it into your calories somehow (at least for now, never mind how it might make things more difficult in a few hours)" -- I think that's unlikely to be a mindset that's compatible with long-term weight maintenance. To me, it gives the donut too much priority and too much power (as if simply not eating it could never be the preferred option). 300-400 calories is a LOT to prioritize to something like a donut when you're trying to lose weight.

In more immediate, practical terms, your friend may be worried that if she were to say yes to one donut, it'd be all downhill from there. That may or may not be true and may or may not be a healthy way to think about it, but she probably knows herself pretty well. I don't personally like the self-talk of "I can't", vastly preferring "I won't" or "I don't", but that's a separate issue.

Non-standard ways of eating like paleo or vegan or whatever are a separate thing too and I'm not sure if it's what you're really talking about or not. But if it is, the only issue I have with any of them, done properly, is when people get it into their heads that this or that is the ONE TRUE WAY to weight loss, and then they panic over half an inch's deviation, or they decide to not even try because it's obviously impossible for them.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
2/28/14 10:16 A

Sounds to me like your friend wanted to be talked into eating a doughnut, and probably ended up not meeting her caloric goals either, which is the only reason she probably should not have had the doughnut.

I disagree that eating in moderation works in general. People have been trying this forever, and we have an obesity epidemic because it isn't working. A person's diet is their own issue though, and if she can't choose to stop eating the doughnuts, she will either have to make cuts elsewhere, or stay at a weight where she feels she need to be on a diet.

I think everyone has been on a diet like this, where you go out with friends, and let them talk you into eating off plan, because it is too strict, or you hate the food. The diet never works, because your resolve has melted away by breakfast, and you are eating a doughnut. They just haven't realized that they already mentally quit the diet, and you were just a mechanism that " allowed " them to do it. She probably " re-started " the next day, and will take weeks to actually realize that the diet isn't right for her.

Your third paragraph. You don't understand why people cut out food groups, except when needed, or on a certain diet that requires it ( thank you ), as long as they : aren't pushing their belief " on you. The next sentence you say that people who just do it to lose calories is another story.

It is another story. Maybe one that realizes that things like doughnuts are high calorie, so the person has chosen no doughnuts as part of their diet. By stating that they should eat in moderation like you do, one could argue that you are pushing your belief on others.

The individual story about your friend is understandable. She was looking for you to okay what she already wanted to do, and once she made her diet, your business, by including you, she can hardly then complain that you were pushing your beliefs on her, but as too the basic idea of what you believe, that is great for you, but people choose to cut things like doughnuts, or other sweets, and may even completely cut them out.

As far as another person's diet, such as a vegan ( I do low carb ), I don't think about other people's diet except if they ask, on a forum like this, or if we are just discussing it in general. I personally choose to cut a group down.. not out, and if someone decides to do this in another way ( cut meat, or doughnuts ), then that is their choice. I think telling someone that they should be eating everything in moderation isn't much different than a vegan telling me " meat is murder ", or if I told them that they would have to not eat any high glycemic carbs.

Those are personal beliefs, and we may not understand why people diet a certain way, but we don't need to understand them. It isn't our diet. They don't need our help, unless they ask, like your friend basically did.

I am sure that most of us have a narrow range of diet that we think of as " right ", and everything outside of that seems " wrong ". The most important word in your last paragraph was the word " necessary ". That person has decided that cutting X food out was necessary.

Those are my thoughts. I think you probably should have a talk with your friend, since she is obviously not wanting to be on whatever diet she is on. Maybe you can buddy up, and help her. I just wanted to point out though that the idea of moderation in everything is also a belief, and can be " pushed ".

I am sure that vegans, gluten free, and low carb people find something that works for them, and want to tell everybody else how great this could work for them. In their excitement for their way of eating, they sometimes cross the line between discussion, and " pushing " their plan. The same can also be done by people " pushing " everything in moderation, don't you think?

WHOLENEWME79 Posts: 951
2/28/14 10:11 A

I don't believe in eliminating entire foods groups, per se, though I understand people not wanting to eat "trigger" foods. For example, I can't keep brownies in the house, or brownie mix. Other sweets, like candy and cookies, don't bother me, but brownies- yeesh. So I keep them far away.

I think that for so long people have seen dieting as an act of restriction, so they automatically think they need to eliminate stuff to be successful. Have you seen the show Mad Men? Betty Draper goes about 'reducing', and she eats tiny, tiny portions of grapefruit, cheese, and other foods. This has been ingrained in our way of thinking for decades- Longer than that, really.

I bet you made a point with her, though, when you mentioned calories over all. Maybe that will help her to start looking at the bigger picture.

When people find out I've lost 60+ lbs, they always ask how I did it. Did I go gluten free? Eliminate sugar? Go vegan? I tell them no, I just started to eat more fruits and vegetables and exercise more. I went to therapy to help with my emotional relationship with food. So I eat anything I want, except brownies, and I am pretty darn happy with where I am.

KENDILYNN SparkPoints: (22,924)
Fitness Minutes: (24,670)
Posts: 2,738
2/28/14 9:57 A

Personally, I don't think doughnuts are "worth the calories". Also, for many people, these things are a trigger food and will lead to way more than one doughnut. I know myself well enough to know that they should not be part of my plan. If I want something sweet, I can make a healthy version at home or share a few bites of dessert with my husband when we're out to dinner. And this is coming from someone in maintenance, so I think it is even more important for someone who is in weight-loss mode and who is still working on re-training their brain.

I would be more concerned to hear that someone cut out all carbs/grains (including the "healthy" ones) for weight loss reasons, if they don't have an intolerance that makes it medically advisable. At least these foods provide some nutrition and can easily be part of a healthy diet. Cereal/grains is a food group. Doughnuts are not.

SCIFIFAN Posts: 1,119
2/28/14 9:52 A

I agree that almost any food can be worked into your diet, as long as it is in your calorie limits, and I also think that 'cheat' meals or days are ok, as long as that doesn't lead to going off the diet completely.

For instance, our church has the absolute best home-made donuts on earth one Sunday a month. The youth group (with adult help) makes them, and they start at about 2 AM. They are so wonderful, yeasty, a little crispy and huge!

Do I have one? Of course--sometimes two or one and a donut hole. They do it only 9 months, with summer off, and sometimes a month is missed for one reason or another, usually because the adult who is the baker can't make it.

And, we miss those Sundays once in a while--either we are traveling, or go to a different service, or for some other reason. So, on average, I'd say I get those donuts maybe 7 times a year. Totally worth it! I'm drooling now.

You can have treats, if you plan for them and don't get derailed. The all or nothing approach wouldn't work for me, but may for others.

TRIXYMAHOGANY SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (9,522)
Posts: 333
2/28/14 9:39 A

I've turned into a "bite taker" - for example, if I know I have some calories left for my day and my boyfriend is eating something delicious and calorie-laden (which he often is, but he never gains weight) I'll just take a bite of whatever he's eating. It gives me the satisfaction of tasting the deliciousness without going over board. I don't do well if I cut foods out of my life, I always end up caving and overeating them.

ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,925
2/28/14 9:30 A

I agree with you that you can fit anything into your diet if it keeps you within your calorie range. That's the message you gave your friend.

SARAHMO4 Posts: 336
2/28/14 9:24 A

What are everyone's thoughts on people that eliminate one kind of food for reasons that aren't connected to better health or personal beliefs? I thought of this because I have a few friends trying to lose weight and some seem to believe that they cant have dessert, or something that's called "unhealthy" by others.

This happened with a friend of mine a few weeks ago when she and I were having breakfast and they had donuts out on the table. She kept saying she wanted one and just couldn't have one. Finally I asked her why not if its in her calorie range for the day? She gave me a kind of puzzled look and went to go get one. I understand people don't need donuts every day normally and that if you are going to eat them I believe moderation is a good choice. Also not eating one after every thing you do that's a step towards being healthier such as working out or tracking your food.

I just don't understand why people exclude foods or food groups for the most part. I understand people who are vegans, gluten free or on the paleo diet and am for all for different plans as long as they aren't pushing their belief on me as how I should and need to live my life. People who just do it lose calories is another story.

I don't believe in doing away with any food or food group unless necessary. I also feel that having a little treat once in a while is better than depriving myself and going way overboard later on, which has happened for me. What are everyone else's thoughts?

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