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RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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12/22/13 8:00 A

Like many but not all primates, we are omnivores and opportunistic eaters evolutionarily, and anyone who tries to tell you our anatomy tells a different story is selling you a bill of goods. Our digestive tract is medium-length, and we have no specialized gut equipment or adaptations to eat really tough plant material like almost all true herbivores do (including elephants and cows). To say that our teeth are not like those of true carnivores misses the boat considering how different they are also from those of true herbivores.

We are able to survive and thrive on diets at both ends of the spectrum from no animal products to almost nothing but, but the dietary requirements get increasingly strict at the extreme ends.

There are plenty of good arguments for not eating very much meat (I only eat it twice a week myself), but that's not one of them.

RUNUXTOO Posts: 136
12/21/13 11:52 A

If you really want to give up eating 'flesh' then watch some movies. Check out 'Food, Inc.'
Learn how cattle is treated and how the meat is handled before humans consume it. That will turn you off of eating animal.

There are a lot of arguments that humans are actually herbivores. For instance, flesh eating animals, like tigers, have fangs to ripe apart muscle of the animal it killed. Humans have teeth like elephants and cows that eat plants.

Our digestive system is long when measured out. Carnivore's have very much shorter digestive systems. The reason is that meat should be consumed just after the 'kill' because flesh begins to rot as soon as it its dead. In longer digestive systems, the dead flesh is actually badly rotting at the end of the digestive process.

Check out some short video clips on YouTube about something called, 'MeatGlue'. It is banned in many countries but not in the USA.

-Enough, said.

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
12/21/13 10:42 A

I'm traveling south this winter. it's not as easy staying on the diet while traveling!

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
11/5/13 6:30 P

I have the recipes fron the two week course I took and the "fork over knives" but it easier just to type it on the computer. SMILE.
I like your once a week hamburger and I do about the same. emoticon

ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,925
11/5/13 12:08 P

Quorn has a very VERY meaty texture. It's a bit pricey - you'll find it in the freezer of the health food section of your supermarket.

I eat a burger a week and that's my meat. I enjoy it to the utmost, but then I don't want another - and don't miss it. And I used to be a low-carber.

My doctor went vegan for awhile and is no longer vegan. However, he recommends it because he quickly lost weight on it, loved the food, and I can tell you he looked like a million bucks. However, he's a doctor and I'm pretty sure he diets like I wouldn't diet - thoughtfully and with discipline! The funny thing is, he was not overweight and losing 20 pounds just gave him the slim build of a younger guy. From his positive experience, I got the Engine 2 book (the diet is followed by some firefighters in Austin, Texas) but frankly, it's too much work for me.

I don't even know what diet my doctor eats these days - he became an executive for a hospital and I haven't seen him lately. I hope he still has that Cary Grant body. But then, he also had a personal chef, his wife, who cooked everything in the book for him (his favorite was, no surprise, the pizza...)

Edited by: ALGEBRAGIRL at: 12/21/2013 (12:57)
JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
11/4/13 5:52 P

I can agree with you there! Frankly I don't think it is the (I'll use cow) cow. I believe it is what is being feed the cow. As you said grass feed --- a lot of difference there!
it doesn't make sense to me that I drank cows milk for 76 years and now I'm allergic to it? Or am I allergic to it? When I started drinking milk it was the cow in the barn to my tummy!
I stopped milk and yogurt and with days I was feeling better.
Well it is working (plant based diet needs to be organic!) for me so I'll stick to it but for once in a great while I'll have a nice juicy grass feed steak.


MRSBENNETT2 Posts: 1,621
10/30/13 11:03 P

I personally think there's far worse things to crave than meat. emoticon I know when I'm not getting enough animal protein, my body isn't happy. Some of us are carnivores, some are omnivores, some are herbivores. Why not treat yourself daily to the best grass-fed meat you can afford, and fill up with the plant-based foods for the rest of your nutrition? You'll be miles ahead of a lot of folks when it comes to health.

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/30/13 7:17 P

not yet. emoticon

Edited by: JOY73YL at: 10/30/2013 (19:19)
JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/26/13 10:09 A

Can hardly wait until that second number in my weight turns to 4. Even if it's 149. Oh it's just SOOO long!

So everyone SMILE and have a HAPPY DAY !!! emoticon

RIET69 SparkPoints: (47,087)
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Posts: 3,116
10/25/13 10:33 A


JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/24/13 11:32 A

Thank you! I haven't see that one yet. I have the recipes from Wellness class And Fork over Knives. I do a lot of Vegan searchers. But I love different ideas. I'm still new at this!

Last night the ladies in my family went out to a Ti restaurant. New type of meal, new diet! So I went to the Ti Restaurant Tuesday afternoon at a slack time. The owner and I had a fairly long talk (became friends). Although being on a plant based diet I didn't want to miss experiencing of eating a meal of that culture. She got a good feel about for things like 'I don't care for hot spicy food'. Then I said surprise me and we came up with the Code words that I would order 'Veggies with Tofu'

It was a wonder experience all around. The six of us got the royal treatment. We will go back!!!

10/23/13 2:52 P

I love the China Study Cookbook. They have incredible plant based recipes

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/23/13 8:48 A

So which came first the chicken or the egg

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/23/13 8:46 A

Smile - this is meant to a humorous but true. I was born a long time ago on a little farm. When Mom wanted chicken for Sunday dinner Dad went out in the yard, caught a chicken, and cut off her head. When cleaning the chicken there were eggs (inside) at different staggers of growth. The shell was the last part to develop

So just go out, catch a chicken, follow the steps and you may have eggs before they are layer. And have shells. ENJOY

Food was organic. That was before farmer got greedy and started adding all kinds of chemical! Now I can't eat animal products and live. SAD

Edited by: JOY73YL at: 10/23/2013 (08:46)
LAURMI Posts: 36
10/22/13 9:29 P

FYI an egg is not meat. It's an I've been an ovo lacto vegetarian for 18 years and I assure you, egg isn't meat. It's considered an animal byproduct. An UNLAID egg is considered meat, however....that would be pretty impossible to consume. LOL.

Edited by: LAURMI at: 10/22/2013 (21:31)
SONICB Posts: 4,381
10/22/13 2:20 P

If you're still in the transition period and are allowed smaller amounts of the kinds of meat that you crave, you could "cut" the meat with lentils or chopped mushrooms, which have a meaty texture and absorb flavors pretty well! Obviously this suggestion doesn't work if you're going cold turkey though. :( Wish I had something more helpful to contribute!

DADDYSGIRL210 Posts: 244
10/21/13 7:32 P

If you can eat eggs/fish/poultry, you may be missing the taste of beef, not necessarily meat...since you are still getting meat. Maybe try seasoning your chicken/eggs like you would beef? You can buy smoke flavoring on the cheap, and it gives food a grilled/smoked flavor. Maybe ground chicken to make burgers etc. things you'd usually use beef for?

CIELBEE Posts: 357
10/21/13 6:50 P

You didn't say whether you like to cook or not, but I would browse cookbooks at your local library (or online websites) and experiment with what you like. You say you don'care for beans, but try them in different ways such as a dip or marinated in a salad to see if that tastes good to you. Try refried beans on a tortilla and top with veggies and salsa. My sister's family makes sloppy joe's with lentils instead of hamburger. I have also seen lots of recipes for flavoring lentils with taco seasongs to use in tacos. I like eggplant-if you grill it, it has a meaty texture. For me, I am a huge recipe browser and that's what helps me pick out meals that make me happy.

DIDS70 Posts: 5,368
10/21/13 2:52 P

here is my suggestion- and in most cases it is free. There is a raw food group on this site. Probably wouldn't hurt to check it out.
the other is on a more personal level- check out meet-up groups in your area. Sometimes they meet at a whole foods or other health food store. Mine meets monthly at Whole Foods and is filled with priceless education.
I have been raw going on 4 years. But i have been known to eat a piece of steak as long as it is 100% green fed. i don't touch dairy but that is my choice. I have noticed that my sinuses cleared up though.
I understand about the nutritionist being expensive and the few I have seen just don't really understand my lifestyle choice. I don't like the SAD diet plan. I don't like the government plate.
I have felt absolutely fantastic in the past 4 years following a more plant based diet. i find that given time, I don't crave the meat. That will go away in time. There are some really good substitutions. Not to be rude, but this site doesn't really do well with alternative lifestyles.

I eat mainly organic and definitely the dirty dozen. I eat 100% grass fed meat when I do (which is once or twice a month). I don't touch pork as it can never be clean. (pigs can't survive on a plant diet). I detox every day with what I put in my mouth. I do a flu shot every day with what I eat. I don't need to be vaccinated. I don't have a good relationship with my MD, but an excellent relationship with my Chiro (who if i had a choice would be my PCP.)

so to reiterate-- check out the cookbooks like others suggested. but also check out some of the other teams. I find that the general boards are sometimes less then helpful when I need targeted help.

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/21/13 11:24 A

Good morning

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/17/13 5:27 P

how true every thing you say. Then the last paragraph I had to smile. "I can't live if I don't give up eating animal products". I don't know what my body doesn't like or if it's what the animals are being fed and I don't care. My physical and well being has changed so drastically for the better. I'm so thrilled to have my life back. I didn't make a very good zombie. I was unhappy and grouchy. emoticon emoticon emoticon

IMATE3 Posts: 584
10/13/13 10:51 A

Firstly, sauteed mushrooms are quite meaty. Some of them (King Forest, not sure what they're called in English) make me anxious with how similar it is.

Secondly, I have found the animal flesh and secretions to be more restrictive than assumed. I feel more liberated since taking my stand against them - and that's speaking purely in a culinary sense.

Thirdly, find your reason, no lifestyle change will be lasting if you don't understand why you're doing it or don't agree with it. There is no lack of reason to reduce your animal consumption.

Fourthly, do your research. Don't buy into the "you can't be a vegan and an athlete" or "you can't be vegan and healthy/strong" or "I can't give up cheese or other animal things" lies. The vegan world is expanding and invading. You can get awesomely delicious whole plant based foods almost anywhere!

Lastly, I wish you a lot of luck on this hopefully permanent journey and feel free to hit me up for a more specific list of sources to find things out.

JOY73YL Posts: 1,405
10/13/13 10:27 A

"Lifestyle Choices". WHY a PLANT BiASED DIET
before---------after. 14 days
glucose 122-----111. (128 is diabetic 2)
cholesterol 227-------203
weight 165------158.8. another couple of weeks. 154

energy - amazingly higher
spirit. " "
life is great!
I'm thrilled. It isn't for every one but it sure is for me

MCOGIRL Posts: 102
6/3/13 8:07 A

I stopped eating meat about 2 years ago...... at first it was difficult because I was just "used" to it as a big part of the meal. But like anything - over time it gets way easier. I don't even think about it or miss it at all. My choice was for ethical reasons. You could try to find a good black bean burger recipe.... I haven't been able to make one homemade that tasted that great but I've gotten some really good ones eating out. Morning Star makes a really tasty one but that is pretty processed so not sure if that fits in with your plan or not. The cheese would be harder for me than the meat. I'd love to be vegan but I just can't seem to find a good substitute for the cheese. Good luck with your new plan.

6/2/13 8:57 A

Thanks for sharing your experience with seeing a Registered Dietitian. There is actually a "code of ethics/conduct" for the Registered Dietitian. As a professional, dietitians are to respect one's food preferences and to work within those food preferences whenever possible . There is no such thing as "one perfect diet" that everyone should use. Ethical nutrition counseling should never include something like: "I am vegetarian, therefore you need to be vegetarian too." This is a concern I have with the content shared within this thread. So once again, thanks for sharing your experience.


RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/1/13 11:58 P

If you like meat, you aren't going to stick to this for long. Hope it removes whatever toxins you need removed in that time, and when you go back to eating meat, you should pay more attention to the type of meat, and maybe pair it with lots of vegetables, and an occasional fruit

It isn't always that a food is good or bad, but in what quantities, and in what combinations you eat those foods. Lean chicken or turkey in a stir fry with 3-4 servings of vegetables would be a very healthy dish.

I know you are going to do the plant based diet for a while, but afterwards, you should try to make your permanent diet as healthy as possible

I saw a dietitian for 6 months, and I was eating VERY low carb. She didn't approve, and was a vegetarian. However, at no time did she suggest a diet for me to follow, and especially not her diet. She asked me what I ate, and then suggested ways to make healthy changes, like upping carbs a bit to get more fiber, and more vegetables, splitting the carbs I did eat evenly over the meals etc. She tried to make my diet as healthy as it could be without making me change so much, I couldn't stick to my diet, or started ignoring her. A dietitian's job is informing you of ways to improve your diet, and in almost any case they can make small changes that will do so. She might warn me of the dangers of eating a certain way, but would never say " you should eat a plant-based, or vegan diet ".

We all have a base diet that we feel comfortable at, and I will never be a vegan. I eat over a lb of meat a day, or fowl I guess. I love chicken. My dietitian got me to get boneless/ skinless, and eat a lot of veggies with smaller portions of meat. She made my low carb healthier, although, I still think she had reservations about it.

You should start at what diet you are comfortable at, and tell your dietitian your goals, work out some compromises, and make a menu. My dietitian saw me every 2 weeks, and wrote down every piece of food I would consume in the next 2 weeks, and there was a place for me to right down what I actually ate. I now do this for myself, so I can stay on track.

Since you pay a nutritionist, or dietitian, you should have all these questions written down, and ask them at your next meeting. Don't leave the next meeting without knowing 100% what you will eat, and why, till your next meeting. That is what you are paying for. Don't just have her tell you what you are going to eat. We are all different.If you want to eat meat, you can do it as part of a healthy diet.

6/1/13 4:22 P

The definition of a lacto-ovo vegetarian is someone who does not eat meat as a protein source but does include dairy and eggs along with plant based foods. That is "how" someone can eat eggs and still is one of the traditional forms of vegetarianism. Now a vegan diet only uses plant based foods, no eggs, no dairy products.

SP Registered Dietitian Nutritionist

Edited by: DIETITIANBECKY at: 6/1/2013 (16:23)
KEEPGOINGEMILY SparkPoints: (20,644)
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Posts: 676
6/1/13 4:07 P

Mushrooms have a somewhat meaty texture, I love making portabella burgers. They are pretty hearty, and you can season them any number of ways to suit your taste. Those great big mushroom caps cooked up burger-style have been a weekly thing around here lately.

SMRGRL13 SparkPoints: (21)
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6/1/13 3:38 P

You do know that eggs are protein which comes from chickens which are therefore meat? After all it is a chicken embryo. So how can you say you don't eat meat?

SMRGRL13 SparkPoints: (21)
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6/1/13 3:36 P

You do know that eggs are protein which comes from chickens which are therefore meat? After all it is a chicken embryo. So how can you say you don't eat meat?

SUDENKORENTO1 SparkPoints: (0)
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6/1/13 12:31 P

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.... but people are replying to me as if I were stupid, or at least simple-minded. I assure all of you that I am not. I am a woman in my forties, college educated and degreed, a writer by profession. I do realize that chicken and fish are meat, ok?

Some have asked why I am doing 'this'. Well, I suppose since I've already spelled it out on my blog, I have no reason to be reticent about spilling the beans here.... I have battled alcohol addiction for many years now. I have battled food addiction since I was prepubescent. I had a handle on it a few years ago (I thought), but after some major issues personally (rape, coronary issues that culminated in more than one heart attack - there; that enough info for ya?) and with family, I backslid horribly. A bottle of vodka and a double cheeseburger were my best pals. I got sober recently, and was back to eating well again, but I still felt sluggish, still craved alcohol, sugar, and fat. My anxiety and depression were through the roof, but I didn't want to start another trial-and-error round to find the right medication or mix of medications. I'd been through that before and it's almost worse than being addicted to alcohol. So, after discussions with a therapist and my general practitioner, I was referred to a nutritionist. She recommended that I cut certain foods from my diet in order to detoxify my system (dairy, eggs, soy, peanuts, sugar - to name a few), and eventually give up all animal products. In our discussion, I said that I didn't think something so restrictive was reasonable, and that I'd probably never give up animal products entirely. Together we came up with the current plan, in which I'm supposed to eliminate dairy, red meat, peanuts, and sugar (I don't eat soy anyway because breast cancer runs in my family); eat more raw foods, especially vegetables; drink a daily vegetable-based smoothie; take certain supplements (digestive enzyme, probiotic) --- basically transition to a more plant-based diet, as opposed to the high-protein/low-carb diet to which I have become accustomed. The nutritionist, being vegan, would like me to eventually give up animal products altogether, but I don't see that happening. So, the goal is to get to the point where I am eating meat only 3 times per week. For now, I am consuming it only once per day (when I am used to having meat and other animal products at every meal).

The nutritionist did give me tools to work with: a book, websites to visit, some printouts of menu plans. However, my insurance doesn't pay for weekly visits to a nutritionist, and I don't have a sugar daddy significant other, so I don't get to talk with the nutritionist as often as I would like. I know y'all want more information about me and my situation, but I draw the line at getting in depth with strangers about my finances, so that explanation will have to do. I think I've revealed enough just to have a question answered, just to get some support.

I thought my original post was kind of amusing; I didn't expect all the seriousness and to be replied to as though I were an idiot. All I wanted were a few suggestions, perhaps more than I'd gotten from local friends and family ("use Mrs Dash", "eat beans to fill you up" - I hate beans...and Mrs Dash); just some new ideas or resources.

Thanks anyway, everybody.

Have a good weekend. Hope it's sunny where you are :-)

KELLY_R Posts: 3,059
5/31/13 8:23 P

If you're eating fish and poultry on occasion, then you are eating meat. Unless the person suggesting this is asking you to only eat fish and poultry once a week or something, then I'd say you have plenty of opportunity to keep eating meat as much as you want.

I think you're just saying you're going to miss red meat (ie: steak, hamburger, etc.)

I'm lacto-ovo vegetarian, which means I don't eat any meat... fish, chicken, pork, beef, etc., but I do allow dairy and eggs.

I would suggest checking out some good vegetarian and vegan cookbooks so you can start getting an idea of how good veg*n food can be. Trust me, if you find the right kinds of food, you really won't miss meat. You need to make your taste buds happy, and that's through using recipes that utilize herbs and spices to bring the flavor profile up a notch (although raw veggies by themselves are pretty darn tasty, too.) And since you're allowed fish and poultry, you can find a way to add those to the recipes so you can get the protein you're concerned you'll be missing. Ie: grill a chicken breast and have it on the side with said recipe.

I agree with Becky - you should probably talk to your nutritionist and ask him or her to supply you with some meal ideas. Not great to just say "don't eat this and that..." then send you out the door without some suggestions.

5/31/13 7:46 P

Perhaps you should then ask the counselor to provide more meal planning suggestions. I find it unusual to place a person on a restrictive diet and not incorporate their food preferences---especially when the food preferences can easily fit into the healthy eating plan. Does the "nutritionist" understand that you enjoy eating meat as your protein source and are willing to use healthy, lowfat options??


LDHAWKE SparkPoints: (19,069)
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5/31/13 6:19 P

May I ask why you are doing this?

SUDENKORENTO1 SparkPoints: (0)
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Posts: 27
5/31/13 5:34 P

In response to those who are curious...

On the advice of a nutritionist (to whom my doctor referred me) I am cutting out most of the animal products (except fish, eggs, and occasional poultry), all dairy (oh, I'm gonna miss cheese - I know there are substitutes,, upping my intake of raw foods, eliminating unhealthy fats and sugar, and adding some supplements. The purpose of this eating plan is to detoxify a body that has been through some rough times in the past few years, and to keep it detoxified and healthy.

I don't believe I could ever go full-on vegan -- this body, which was once slim and athletic, could not survive on that little protein on an ongoing basis! -- but I agree with the nutritionist that eliminating the toxins and 'sludge' from my system would be very beneficial to me, so I'm following her guidelines.

However, it's been difficult because I am used to having animal protein for every meal. So, since we have such a huge and diverse community here I thought I'd pose the question to other 'Sparkers', just to get some insights and advice.

Thanks to all who have replied or will reply. emoticon

Edited by: SUDENKORENTO1 at: 5/31/2013 (17:34)
LEAHLEGS Posts: 184
5/31/13 4:37 P

I'm mostly meatless, but I fine smoked cheese to be a great substitute for meaty flavor. I use it in soups, on veggie burgers, and nibbled straight out of the fridge. My favorite is smoked mozzarella, because it's lower in calories.

DRAGONCHILDE SparkPoints: (61,458)
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5/31/13 3:11 P

RENATARUNS, it's actually shiitake. :) Two i's.

5/31/13 3:09 P

I too am curious.
A diet that contains meat and a diet that contains plant proteins can both be very healthy---it is all about balance, food selection, preparation, etc.

SP Registered Dietitian

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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Posts: 1,379
5/31/13 1:39 P

Why are you switching over? (Just curious. And why the raw-only nuts?)

Anyway, you may be missing the "umami" flavor in the foods you're replacing meat with. Try loading up on non-meat foods that contain a lot of it: tomatoes/tomato sauce, soy/soy sauce, [cheese (especially parmesan) if you're still eating that], sh*take mushrooms, also carrots, potatoes, sweet potatoes. And green tea, strangely enough.

Edit: profanity checker needs a tweak if it had a problem with the name of a mushroom

FELICIA0923 Posts: 7
5/31/13 1:28 P

High protein and iron legumes like kidney beans and lentils paired up with some healthy veggies should definitely do the trick for you! Pile on the tomatoes and peppers for the vitamin C that will make the iron in the beans more bioavailable. I also like onions and spinach. You could do a soup or a sandwich with those ingredients.

SUDENKORENTO1 SparkPoints: (0)
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Posts: 27
5/31/13 1:18 P

I am in the process of transitioning from a Paleo-type diet to a more plant-based diet and sometimes it is HELL!

Some people have a sweet tooth...but me...I have a meat tooth! emoticon

What do I do about my craving for meat? Besides nuts (which I'm supposed to eat raw, so I ain't eatin' 'em at all), are there any foods or perhaps even certain lifestyle changes that will curb my cravings for meat?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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