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MYREALANA's Photo MYREALANA SparkPoints: (30,108)
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9/16/11 9:38 A

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9/15/11 9:50 P

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The fact that we are not a total democracy confuse many people, as we are known as the "Greatest Democracy" that has ever existed.

The basic reason for misunderstanding is that the high schools never teach about a Democratic Republic - they simply refer to our form of Democracy as "Democracy".

Based on a discussion with my granddaughters History teacher - I'm not sure colleges are making the distiction either.

Obviously I went to school back in the really old days, but I didn't learn anything about the Electoral College until I started working on my History minor in college.

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HILLWIZARD's Photo HILLWIZARD Posts: 995
9/15/11 6:31 P

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The United States is a "Constitutional Republic" we do many things Democraticly, including the appointment of our law maker, and determining each states votes for president. many parts controlled by the federal government are totally undemocratic like the military and the courts.

Why you might ask? a total democracy is another kind of trap. would you let the majority impose their whimsies on a minority? Have court cases decided on popular vote? give 51 % of the people the right to take anyones private property without compensation.

Shirley, what is illegal? The electoral college? it is in the constitution, Article II, Sec 1, you can not get more legal then that. Maine and Nebraska already split their electors as allowed by Article II, Sec 1, But the suggestion that started this thread would take vote away from the party in power so this is a moot discussion

Mike the Hillwizard

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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (101,925)
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9/15/11 3:29 P

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I agree William 100%.I even feel it's illegal. emoticon

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WILLAMLC's Photo WILLAMLC Posts: 41,099
9/15/11 3:20 P

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I read the article, not the posts.. SO here I go..

To me it is unbelievable that the "biggest democracy" in the world uses electoral college. Democracy means, simply, one man, one vote. So, any discussion leading to anything other than that seems bizarre to me.

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HILLWIZARD's Photo HILLWIZARD Posts: 995
9/14/11 10:35 P

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Hi Val

Has this been introduced as a bill? I have seen this story 5 time in the last 40 years, But nothing ever happens and I would bet a ham to a hot dog nothing happens this time.

Shirley and Val

Are you aware that the USA is a coalition of 50 independent states, each having the right to decide what is a crime and what the punishment for it should be. each with the rights to decide what services it will provide for it residents and what taxes it should have to pay for them?

The federal government was created by the states with defined and limited powers. the law making branch was set up so a majority of the states, or the population could veto an idea they did not like. Note to pass a bill both the population (House) and the states (senate) must agree

if it was just based on population the Republican controlled house could pass any bill they want - Is that what you want?

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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (101,925)
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9/14/11 10:23 P

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The answer to the electroal college question is simply make a law that the votes from all states must be counted before the election is over.It would take a little longer with absentee votes etc being counted but that way everyone's vote would truly count. emoticon

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POPEYETHETURTLE's Photo POPEYETHETURTLE SparkPoints: (218,910)
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9/14/11 9:44 P

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Thank you.

For a moment there, I was very concerned about your health.

Thanks for assuring me that you are just fine.

As an accused "Strict Construtionist", I want the Constitution followed and only an official Amendment should change Constitutional rules.

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4EVRYOUNG Posts: 5,174
9/14/11 8:43 P

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No slip. The state lawmakers wanted to change the rulesof the Electoral votes from their state to represent that states Senate seats. Once they "hypothetically" keep Obama from winning the election do they plan to keep the new rules? The "state" could change colors and then they would be stuck with the new rules. Rules that could ultimately come back and kick them in the @$$.

Val

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!
POPEYETHETURTLE's Photo POPEYETHETURTLE SparkPoints: (218,910)
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9/14/11 8:03 P

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Val - With a "popular vote" the "state of New York" would eliminate the input of not one, but several states.

And by the way, was this some sort of slip?

"Or do they plan to reverse their decision for the 2012 election after Obama loses?"


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4EVRYOUNG Posts: 5,174
9/14/11 6:32 P

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I don't want any "state" to wield more influence than any other that's why agree with Shirley. The electoral college is obsolete. The only influence should be by popular vote.

Val

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!
POPEYETHETURTLE's Photo POPEYETHETURTLE SparkPoints: (218,910)
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9/14/11 5:58 P

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If you go purely by popular vote, you eliminate the need for presidential candidates to campaign beyond a few populous states (New York, California, Florida, Illinois, etc.). I think the people of New Mexico, Utah, Montana, etc., deserve their chance to input their idea as to who should be President.

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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (101,925)
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9/14/11 5:22 P

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I have long felt the electroal vote should be done away with and the president be elected by the poplar vote. emoticon

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HILLWIZARD's Photo HILLWIZARD Posts: 995
9/14/11 3:45 P

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Hi Val

After reading my post I find I did not answer your two questions,
I do think the state should have a choice in how they split or do not split their elector votes, what my state does will not impact yours

I do not care what happens to the college as long as the electoral votes stay the same, The electoral system was put in place to limit the power of the several big states, this is still required. and the honor given to those people who are appointed as electors does not hurt anyone so why change


Mike the Hillwizard


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HILLWIZARD's Photo HILLWIZARD Posts: 995
9/14/11 3:32 P

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Hi Val

This is not a new Idea, and I think one state in the east already does it.

But I do not think a lot of states will do this, and none for the reason stated in the story. there are three kinds of states, blue like California, red like Texas as it is all the states electoral votes go to the red or blue candidate so don't expect any change.

Then there are swing states like Pennsylvania that could go either way, The GOP is in charge now and they think (Because politicians are optimist) that they will win the state and their candidate will get all the votes - why would they split the vote and have their candidate get less?

another thing, both candidate and parties do a lot of stuff for swing states because they want their votes, splitting the electoral vote mean both get half so why bother.

This is not going to happen But it was a good story :)

What do you think about the special election in New York? Does in mean one of the wings have left the Democratic party? In another post I suggested several were lose

Mike the Hillwizard

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4EVRYOUNG Posts: 5,174
9/14/11 1:29 P

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Do you think they should do away with the electoral college? Do you think states should have the right to change the way electoral votes are cast?

If the GOP has it's way...

motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/gop
-e
lectoral-college-plan-beat-obama-2012


The GOP is running scared. Do 4 more years of Obama scare them so much that they could eventually ruin any opportunity that their candidate could carry the election. Because one day Dems will be back in control at the state level.

Or do they plan to reverse their decision for the 2012 election after Obama loses?

Val

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!
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