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ANNEMARGAR's Photo ANNEMARGAR Posts: 985
12/16/10 5:52 A

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Thank you all for the great posts!! Everyday I work to eat a little healthier - more fruits and veggies, less coffee, little or no processed foods. The more change I make the better I feel. I too struggle with the meat/dairy intake -- is it good or not good. I do know I feel better when I limit my meat/dairy intake, but it could be all of the chemicals that we have in our food system.

Again- thanks for the great discussion!!



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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,842
12/14/10 5:21 P

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I agree; dairy companies, in fact the American Dairy council lies to us. But I'm not going to refuse to consume healthy milk and milk products because they lie. I don't even want to pay attention to them or their toxic milk other than to expose them when I can.

I don't see anything unnatural about caring for a goat, a camel, a yak, a ewe or any domestic mammal and enjoying the milk that freely flows from their bodies. This has been being done for thousands of years; has been the mainstay of billions of people over all that time and now, all of a sudden (in this more perfect modern world lol) some teachers are telling us that this has been an "unnatural" behavior. I'm just not seeing it; can't quite get a grip on the idea.

My dairy goats were never mistreated in fact they would freely jump up onto the milking stand and enjoy our relationship. Lots of petting, caressing and talking. My goats would follow me anywhere. They, and many billions like them all over the world give their milk freely, naturally. And millions of people all over the world do amazing things with the milk they get from their animals. Milk itself is so, so amazing when left to do its natural thing and not killed by ultra pasteurization and all the other things done to it in big processing plants.

It's just like so many things in the natural world that many people in this western culture just don't understand. Things that most people would consider "yucky" (to put it mildly) are the things from which beautiful stuff grows.

We should all go and live with an indigenous tribe somewhere for a year and then see if milk is "unnatural"; see if we can even live without it. I think it would be unnatural to spurn such a natural gift.

My philosophy keeps me straining towards more openness and acceptance of what this Earth provides and it keeps me pulling away more and more from the technological things that are destroying what the Earth has provided. I appreciate this computer right now at the moment but I would give it up in an instant if I knew it would mean getting my natural world back...and all the raw milk from healthy animals back. Right now, the best I know to do is talk to others about it and this computer provides the means to do that...at the moment.

Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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SIS229 Posts: 87
12/14/10 3:02 P

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I agree with most of what ANIDUCKTHISTLE said. A question was posed by the originator of this forum topic on our own personal tried and true methods of weight loss and health and i relayed mine. Everyone has personal choice and I believe that drinking other animals milk is not natural nor is consuming milk past teething natural. Also, even low fat milk is really high in fat. If you read Fuhrman's book he explained how the dairy companies play with the numbers to reflect something that consumers like without blatantly lying. They are misleading consumers. Anyway, it is my personal choice to stay away from dairy as much as possible and has worked for me and my health. Also, I think that if I cannot stomach watching an animal slaughtered for our consumption maybe i should not eat it. again my personal choice and my body has reflected only positive outcomes from these decisions i have made. also, most of the meat in the market comes from factory farms where they are in dark closed confines, fed gmo corn feed, etc. so yes if you are dead set on eating animals then please do urself a favor and get grass fed meats and meats that at least had a somewhat satisfying life before it was slaughtered to be on your plate.

I wud just like to add that I am eating a nice fresh herb salad from trader joe's while i type this. The dressing I made has vinegar, garlic, cayenne pepper, and cumin. Very very tasty and nutritous.

ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,842
12/14/10 12:48 P

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Well now, it's morning and I still disagree. Maybe I can be nicer about it though...lol

While Dr. Joel Fuhrman has a lot of great things to say about what we should be eating for better health, he's still missing a few facts. I've read his stuff and, well, I was a bit disappointed to see that he follows a bit more of what is popular and too little of what is the reality of food/health around the world. I think the reason these health gurus often make that mistake is because they are up against our terribly unhealthy western food culture which DOES eat an incredibly gynormous amount of factory farmed meat products which ARE causing cancer as well as many other diseases. (read: eggs, meats, dairy)

As sad and unhealthy as that is I just don't like to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I hold very firmly to the opinion that it's never been the fault of those foods but the fault of the factory farming methods that has made them so terribly bad for us. I also think that because of the powerful marketing campaigns used by these producers the general public has been lured into consuming much more meat and meat products than humans actually need.

But the meat based consumption isn't the only thing that has made us so unhealthy. Grains are a major part of the picture as well. We have all consumed WAY too much grain and PARTICULARLY (I feel a pun coming up here!) pieces of grains (particles - get it?), bits and pieces pulled out from the whole grain, ("isolated") that have been tossed into almost all refined food stuffs that are on the grocery store shelves. Just THINK what that has done to our health! And the very same thing has been done with milk.

Good food ruined for monetary profit

Don't blame the milk
Don't blame the meat
Don't blame the eggs
Blame the profit-hungry manufacturers.

And grains, even the very best organic and whole grains are way over consumed. Grains are probably the one food that we could actually live well without. We are just so used to having our bread, pasta, cookies and cakes. We are addicted. Many are allergic which is no surprise.

Don't get me going on soy!! What a marketing crock.

Now THAT wasn't very nice Anibob. Get back into the kitchen and eat an egg...with some spinach.


Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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SIS229 Posts: 87
12/14/10 8:48 A

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If you are really interested in the facts then I suggest you read Eat to Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, listen to this interview with Dr. Esselstyn: Heart Disease and Cancer: Listen to Foremost Expert Tell How to Prevent Them http://www.heartattackproof.com/nz_esselst
yn.mp3, and this guy Rip Esselstyn who was a fire fighter and helped his entire engine lose weight on a plant based diet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbXlzzp3guE
&feature=related.

The last video may be more interesting. I can provide more sources but I will not inundate this posting with it. If you are interested you can message me or something. Have a blessed day :)

FIT_ARTIST's Photo FIT_ARTIST SparkPoints: (110,461)
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12/14/10 2:11 A

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Me too. Must be my bedtime. Nighty Night ANI!

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,842
12/14/10 1:52 A

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Laura you are funny...and cynical...and, well, I agree with you. I see no evidence anywhere that meat and/or dairy has made anyone fat; in their abs, their face, their thighs or anywhere else on their bodies. What makes people fat is lack of exercise, processed, nutritionally deficient food-like stuffs made mostly of grains (over processed, isolated proteins, and highly process sugars)

There is a lot of evidence however, of people eating organic, grass-fed healthy meats, organic and grass-fed whole dairy products including whole eggs from pasture-raised chickens who have happily maintained strong, healthy bodies. This kind of diet is happening all over the world with millions of people. And yes, we would all be better off if we would include lots of raw veggies in our diets as well.

We don't need to kick meats and dairy out of our diets; we need to throw out the refined junk AND we need to get off our butts AND we need to eat a lot less!! Now THERE'S a novel idea!!

Don't get me going when it's bedtime because I tend to lose all social proprieties!
emoticon emoticon

Edited by: ANIDUCK at: 12/14/2010 (01:53)
Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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FIT_ARTIST's Photo FIT_ARTIST SparkPoints: (110,461)
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12/14/10 1:23 A

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SIS229, Yes. It most certainly is my right. Hmmm... where have I been? Overwhelming evidence that supports this type of diet? No meat or dairy? Does that include seafood? Eggs? Honey too?
I would like to see this evidence.
Gosh. I was under the impression that people who avoided all meat and dairy needed to heavily supplement their diets. Boy, now I know why I'm so FAT. It's the meat and dairy that's done it. Not the cereals, grains or baked goods. It was the meat and dairy. Of course. How stupid of me.


~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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1_AMAZING_WOMAN's Photo 1_AMAZING_WOMAN Posts: 2,299
12/14/10 12:14 A

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I think it would be (ideal) to eat a diet free of meat and dairy, but for most people it ain't gonna happen. So, I think first and fore-most a person should work on having a really healthy diet of lean meats, and lots of fruits and vegetables (mostly raw) with some whole unprocessed grains. And, then as they make progress they can (if they choose) gradually take additional steps to improve things in their diet, perhaps making meat and dairy an infrequent part of the meal plans, and maybe later removing it. Even the Meditarian Diet - which is one of the healthiest there is, has some meat and dairy.

Amber

Amber
-----------------------------
I admit I am powerless over food -
that my life has become unmanageable.
-------------------------------
You are looking at the 'main' source of 'all' your health & happiness.
-------------------------------
The more you say IT... The more you think IT... The more IT will occur.
-------------------------------
When someone shows you who they are, believe them - the FIRST time.


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SIS229 Posts: 87
12/13/10 11:42 P

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you can disagree. it is your free will to do so but there is tons of evidence out there that show meat and dairy are killers to health and vitality of the body and add extra weight on people.

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12/13/10 11:36 P

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We will have to disagree on getting rid of meat and dairy. Although, I do feel most people could benefit from eating more raw fruit and veggies.

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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SIS229 Posts: 87
12/13/10 10:23 P

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my tried and true method is eating as much raw food as possible. When you eat nutrient dense foods (fruits and veggies) you get full and lose weight. do that with a good exercise program, limit or remove all together meat and dairy from your diet, and eat as much whole natural foods as possible like what was said before. that's pretty much my diet. i cheat a little because I have oatmeal in the morning which is processed but it makes me feel so good and i work out every day taking a day off every 8 days and i love love love my body now. I have been doing this for 2 months now. i don't know how much i weigh because i do not have a scale but i can see my abs and the muscles in my thighs. everything is firm and i just love the way i look naked and it makes me feel so good so good luck with your program. i wish u much success.

FIT_ARTIST's Photo FIT_ARTIST SparkPoints: (110,461)
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12/13/10 10:02 P

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"abs are made in the kitchen" is a way of saying that "you are what you eat".
Choosing whole foods are clean. Limit or avoid all processed foods.

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

My Team;
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1_AMAZING_WOMAN's Photo 1_AMAZING_WOMAN Posts: 2,299
12/13/10 9:59 P

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The comment, "Abs are made in the kitchen" applies 2 ways:

1) If you have fat on your belly you're not gonna see your nice abs no matter how firm you've worked them. So, gotta lose the fat to see the muscles.

2) The type of carbs - and how much of your diet is made up of carbs - will effect the size of your belly (often more than fat placed elsewhere). Simple carbs will cause more of an insulin release, which will place the fat right on your 'abs'. Too many carbs (of any kind) at one time will do the same thing.

So, it's good to have a good balanced ratio of protein, fat, and carbs (good carbs) at each meal. That way you have minimal insulin release. And, a small insulin release will be setting your body up to release fat, cause insulin is a 'fat storage' hormone.

So, yeah, abs are kinda 'made in the kitchen'.

But, if you want wash-board abs, you need to work them, as well as getting the fat off the belly.

Amber

Amber
-----------------------------
I admit I am powerless over food -
that my life has become unmanageable.
-------------------------------
You are looking at the 'main' source of 'all' your health & happiness.
-------------------------------
The more you say IT... The more you think IT... The more IT will occur.
-------------------------------
When someone shows you who they are, believe them - the FIRST time.


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BETTER_THAN_AVG's Photo BETTER_THAN_AVG Posts: 366
12/13/10 9:48 P

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Well, im not implying that certain foods will automatically give u a six pack like Santa at Christmas, i just heard that certain foods are better.

Ive just read so many different articles about so many different foods, all claiming to be best approach. I guess I was looking for tried and tested information. :)

"Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed."--G.K. Chesterton




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GLADGAD's Photo GLADGAD SparkPoints: (35,273)
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12/13/10 9:40 P

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I don't think that there are any foods that will give you good abs, nor are there any exercises that will help you lose fat in the ab area (or any other area for that matter). What you CAN do is to eat healthy, do exercises to strengthen your abs, and when your body decides to burn off your abdomen fat, that's when you'll see the results of your hard work.

That being said, if you're confused about good versus bad carbs, think whole grains. Anything that's processed (white rice, bleached flour, sugar) is bad. Whole grains are good, as in whole wheat bread and pastas, and whole grains (brown rice, quinoa, wild rice, etc.) Good carbs also include veggies, but you want to make sure you're eating a rainbow of veggies - carrots, red peppers, greens, purple eggplant.

If you are active, you should be getting 60% to 65% of your daily calories from good carbs. So, for example, if you're eating 2,000 calories a day, 1,200 of those calories should be coming from good carbs. If you're setting up a diet plan on Spark, it should lay out the number of calories per day you get from carbs.

Does this help? I'm not sure if I answered your question.

-Carolyn

"God gave you your body as a gift, so you should take care of it." - My Mom
CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
12/13/10 9:31 P

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I am not sure how to answer this...better foods for the abs or in general?

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BETTER_THAN_AVG's Photo BETTER_THAN_AVG Posts: 366
12/13/10 8:55 P

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I have heard that "abs are made in the kitchen," yet I dont understand the carb, good food-bad food stuff. Ive been staying in my calorie range but I'd like to know what foods are good for helping my ab development.

Can anyone give me some examples?
Scott

"Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed."--G.K. Chesterton




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