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KASHII's Photo KASHII Posts: 1,599
7/12/12 8:46 P

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Ok!

I love Dr. Cousens! Isn't he awesome?! :) Yeah, he's definitely using a low/no grain diet. As I understand his program, he does basically all veggies and fats/proteins (nuts, seeds, oils) for the first stages. And then he slowly adds in low-sugar fruits as he goes. And it is a very fast, effective program.

In the documentary Forks Over Knives, they interview dr. Neal Barnard. He talks about how populations that had high-carb diets (most noteably the Asian's and their staple for rice) did not have the same health issues until they started to adopt a high fat diet. So he would put diabetics on a low fat vegan diet, but states that it was NOT low carb - and they were STILL reversing their conditions. (You can see a clip here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxFai4iVOtk ) It's possible people would have a FASTER change if they went low-carb vegan, but these people are still seeing the changes and getting their sugars back under control - so exciting! :)

And for a limited time, you can listen to an interview from the VeganPalooza with him here: www.veganpalooza.com/preview/ I haven't listened to it (yet!) so I have no idea if it's actually relevant :)

And Dr. Fuhrman's recipes are vegan (except I think I've seen honey maybe - I don't have the book with me right now and can't quite remember) but some do include whole wheat flour, oats/oatmeal.

As for the 3-part plate, fats aren't specifically addressed there, you're right. I think it's covered elsewhere on the website about types that are beneficial, types to avoid. Maybe they assume that for most people, if they're making foods for the other food groups, they're likely adding little bit of fats as they go - nuts or seeds in salads, oils to saute veggies, maybe some avocado mixed in with their beans.... Hm, I hadn't noticed that there isn't a direct link from that page to info about fats - you do have to kind of dig for it! That is annoying...

Edited by: KASHII at: 7/14/2012 (05:17)

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KASHII's Photo KASHII Posts: 1,599
7/12/12 6:31 A

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Not ignoring your questions! Just swamped at work! I'll try to get to it soon with info/sources :)



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,355
7/10/12 12:36 A

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KASHII,
I definitely appreciate Dr. Cousens work and would consider the diet he recommends low-carb. He has helped a lot of people. And I also think that any natural, and ideally organic food diet is far better than the SAD diet by a long shot. Concerning the 3-part plate I am curious, it looks like fat is eliminated completely?
I also agree that not everyone has trouble with carbs from grains or from beans, but if I'm not mistaken anyone with type 2 diabetes or prediabetes (metabolic syndrome) is insulin-resistant to some degree and would therefore do better on far fewer carbs.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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KASHII's Photo KASHII Posts: 1,599
7/9/12 11:26 P

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I say if the pyramid works for ya, go for it :) I didn't realize that the Am Db Assoc was still using the pyramid version! Just to put another option out there for people to look at: I'd been researching their new Plate method, which I like! I find it an easy way to visually show what a plate could look like. But others like the food groups and watching nuber of servings. So use what works for your body and mood!

www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/fo
od
/planning-meals/create-your-plate/


There's more specific info in that link, but a basic rundown:

Similar to the MyPlate where your meal plate is divided, but instead of 4, they do 3:
1. 50% of the plate as non-starchy veg
2. 25% of the plate as starchy foods (whole grains, cereal, beans or peas, starchy veg)
3. 25% of the plate as protein

Side it up with a drink and small fruit, and that's the meal!

It's pretty much what the Canadian Diabetic Association is using, too. ( www.diabetes.ca/documents/abo
ut-diabet
es/WhatsOnYourPlate%282%29.pdf
)

HoundLover: I love that you have such a passion to help! It's important though to remember that every body is different and has varying levels of insulin resistance. What may spike one person's blood sugars or insulin levels may not do so to another - the same way everyone has varying levels of salt sensitivity and reactions to sodium foods. And why I can eat bananas and carrot with no troubles by my husband's tongue will start to itch and slightly swell. :) We are all amazingly unique, complex networks of signals, chemicals, processes and yet-unknown make-ups!

Absolutely - taking out all grains has been an aspect of one type of diet that can cure diabetes, as evidenced by Gabriel Cousens. Dr Cousens uses a 100% raw diet to cure diabetes

But Dr Joel Fuhrman has had the same reversal in his patients without being 100% raw or grain free - just focusing on a natural, whole, plant-based diet. (And Dr Esselstyn is curing heart disease with a very similar plant-based diet at the Cleveland Clinic)

Did it take them longer to get off meds? It's possible - I forget the exact duration for Fuhrman, and it would depend how compliant patients were since they stayed at home and did not go on a retreat like Cousens' program does; but Cousens was usually 30 days. But did Fuhrman's patients still get there? You bet!

Whichever path a person will stick to is the one I'd recommend. What good is the "perfect" diet plan if is one you can't make a lifestyle? And both are immensely healthy shifts that would benefit almost everyone! They are both leaps and bounds healthier than the SAD diet! And both are curing disease! I say Kudos to any who make any set of changes and see health improvements :)



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TRAVELNISTA's Photo TRAVELNISTA SparkPoints: (182,914)
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7/9/12 10:42 A

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Unfortunately their standards are based on the Standard American Diet ( which we Raw Foodies call SAD). Their recommendations are a healthier option for the way people to eat opposed to how they eat now.

You and I both know a Raw Diet can reverse Diabetes but that is a 100% Raw Diet. Many people on this team do not follow Raw 100% some are 50/50, 80 %, and some are just dabbling in it. I'm lowering my numbers and hope to get off my meds soon. I do not eat grains and on occasion will have Raw Cheese in a salad. My diet consists mainly of fruits, veggies, sea veggies, nuts, and seeds.



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,355
7/8/12 2:43 P

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Sorry, nothing personal, but I think this is the worst recommendation I can imagine for someone with diabetes. This is going to make diabetes much worse because high-carb will lead to the body needing more insulin to deal with the carbs.
A low-carb diet (under 50 grams/day) with all carbs coming from vegetables and a few lower-carb fruits with healthy fats and protein from coconut oil, nuts, seeds, eggs and dairy are the easiest and fastest way to reverse and usually cure type 2 diabetes and greatly reduce insulin needs in type 1 diabetes. Low-fat dairy is higher and sugar and not a good idea at all.
I don't know what prompts the American Diabetes Association to make these recommendations but the only reason I can imagine is financial gains through selling diabetes supplies. Please do your own through research everyone.
To learn more please take a look at this blog:
eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia


Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 7/8/2012 (14:46)
You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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FLAMENM's Photo FLAMENM Posts: 35,755
7/8/12 12:40 P

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Thanks for sharing. This matches more how I eat than the traditional pyramid.

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DEBBIEANNE1124's Photo DEBBIEANNE1124 SparkPoints: (100,298)
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7/8/12 11:57 A

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This is an excellent post Yvonne.

I posted my oat bran cereal recipe earlier in the week and one member commented that "do away with allg rains for lower carbs" that indeed is oor advice for a diabetic. I find when i ahve grains my numbers are much better.



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TRAVELNISTA's Photo TRAVELNISTA SparkPoints: (182,914)
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7/8/12 11:47 A

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The Diabetes Food Pyramid divides food into six groups:

Grains and Starches Vegetables Fruit Milk and Dairy Meat and Meat Substitutes Fats, Sweets, and AlcoholThese groups or sections on the pyramid vary in size.

The largest group—grains, beans, and starchy vegetables—is on the bottom. This means that you should eat more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than of any of the other foods.
The smallest group—fats, sweets, and alcohol—is at the top of the pyramid. This tells you to eat very few servings from these food groups.

Servings

The Diabetes Pyramid gives a range of servings. If you follow the minimum number of servings in each group, you would eat about 1600 calories and if you eat at the upper end of the range, it would be about 2800 calories. Most women, would eat at the lower end of the range and many men would eat in the middle to high end of the range if they are very active.

The exact number of servings you need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and nutrition needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to eat. Divide the number of servings you should eat among the meals and snacks you eat each day.

Food GroupingsThe Diabetes Food Pyramid is a little different than the USDA Food Guide Pyramid because it groups foods based on their carbohydrate and protein content instead of their classification as a food.

To have about the same carbohydrate content in each serving, the portion sizes are a little different too. For example: you will find potatoes and other starchy vegetables in the grains, beans and starchy vegetables group instead of the vegetables group. Cheese is in the meat group instead of the milk group. A serving of pasta or rice is ¾ cup in the Diabetes Food Pyramid and ½ cup in the USDA pyramid. Fruit juice is ½ cup in the Diabetes Food Pyramid and ¾ cup in the USDA pyramid. This difference is to make the carbohydrate about the same in all the servings listed.

Following is a description of each group and the recommended range of servings of each group.

Grains and Starches

At the base of the pyramid are bread, cereal, rice, and pasta. These foods contain mostly carbohydrates.
The foods in this group are made mostly of grains, such as wheat, rye, and oats.

Starchy vegetables like potatoes, peas, and corn also belong to this group, along with dry beans such as black eyed peas and pinto beans. Starchy vegetables and beans are in this group because they have about as much carbohydrate in one serving as a slice of bread. So, you should count them as carbohydrates for your meal plan.

Choose 6-11 servings per day. Remember, not many people would eat the maximum number of servings. Most people are toward the lower end of the range.
Serving sizes are:
1 slice of bread 1/4 of a bagel (1 ounce) 1/2 an English muffin or pita bread 1-6 in tortilla 3/4 cup dry cereal 1/2 cup cooked cereal 1/2 cup potato, yam, peas, corn, or cooked beans 1 cup winter squash 1/3 cup of rice or pasta

Vegetables

All vegetables are naturally low in fat and good choices to include often in your meals or have them as a low calorie snack. Vegetables are full of vitamins, minerals and fiber.

This group includes spinach, chicory, sorrel, Swiss chard, broccoli, cabbage, bok choy, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, and kale, carrots, tomatoes, cucumbers, and lettuce.

Starchy vegetables such as potatoes, corn, peas, and lima beans are counted in the starch and grain group for diabetes meal planning.

Choose at least 3-5 servings per day.
A serving is:
1 cup raw 1/2 cup cooked

Fruit

The next layer of the pyramid is fruits, which also contain carbohydrates. They have plenty of vitamins, minerals, and fiber. This group includes blackberries, cantaloupe, strawberries, oranges, apples, bananas, peaches, pears, apricots, and grapes.

Choose 2-4 servings per day
A serving is:
1/2 cup canned fruit 1 small fresh fruit 2 Tbsp dried fruit 1 cup of melon or raspberries 1 1/4 cup of whole strawberries

Milk and Dairy

Milk products contain a lot of protein and calcium as well as many other vitamins. Choose non-fat or low-fat dairy products for the great taste and nutrition without the saturated fat.

Choose 2-3 servings per day
A serving is:
1 cup non-fat or low-fat milk 1 cup of yogurt

Meat and Meat Substitutes

The meat group includes beef, chicken, turkey, fish, eggs, tofu, dried beans, cheese, cottage cheese and peanut butter. Meat and meat substitutes are great sources of protein and many vitamins and minerals.
Choose from lean meats, poultry and fish and cut all the visible fat off meat.

Keep your portion sizes small. Three ounces is about the size of a deck of cards. You only need 4-6 ounces for the whole day.
Choose 4-6 oz per day divided between meals
Equal to 1 oz of meat: 1/4 cup cottage cheese 1 egg 1 Tbsp peanut butter 1/2 cup tofu

Fats, Sweets, and Alcohol

Things like potato chips, candy, cookies, cakes, crackers, and fried foods contain a lot of fat or sugar. They aren't as nutritious as vegetables or grains. Keep your servings small and save them for a special treat.

Serving sizes include:
1/2 cup ice cream 1 small cupcake or muffin 2 small cookies


American Diabetes Association 1701 North Beauregard Street Alexandria, VA 22311 1-800-DIABETES





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