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SAVANNAHZMOMMA1's Photo SAVANNAHZMOMMA1 Posts: 712
12/8/11 10:58 A

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I love the insights below. I've never run a marathon, partly because I felt that it was a "feat" that was not necessarily healthy long-term, but a thing to accomplish and then be done with. But it would be neat to experience it. But I love trotting along so very much, that I want to run at least another 32 years. ALTHOUGH I am discovering the joys of walking briskly this month!

This article gives some fascinating info about how "running a marathon may induce cardiac damage confined to the right ventricle..."

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/C
HF/30053

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
11/18/11 10:55 P

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This is turning into a really helpful thread. emoticon

I was just thinking about what it is that makes some people really interested in competing in races (and winning), while others are very happy to just run on their own or treat a race like another training run. I'm not saying that either one is better than the other, it seems to me more personality thing. For me it's easy to run slow because I treat running as a sightseeing opportunity just like hiking. I'm thinking if someone is very competitive and enjoys winning a lot then you have to work much harder to make running really fun without overdoing it. Maybe part of the problem is that our society overall is so focused on success that it takes some swimming against the stream. The same is true for people putting there family before their job. People who have heart attacks because of stress at their job are just one example.
Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 11/18/2011 (22:55)
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JANEREILLY's Photo JANEREILLY Posts: 729
11/18/11 5:57 P

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Going back to the original topic I just want to say that when running I have had some pretty close near death experiences. Not with heart failure but with cars not obeying traffic lights or watching when I have the little white man light on the cross walk also bicycles are pretty scary too. You can die crossing the road or in a car accident. There are any number of ways you can die but we can't just sit home. Even in the house you can die from many different kinds of accidents ie falling down stairs.

I want to run a marathon one day. However, as pointed out it is best not to rush these things. I don't want to run a marathon at the expense of my health. I have been running for I guess a couple of years now (I can't remember the exact time I started). I will not try a marathon until I can run a 1/2 without walking. Then I will run / walk my marathon. Due to health issues it may take me longer but I will keep trying. The unfortunate deaths of people in car accidents, plane crashes etc.. does not keep me from doing those things so it will not keep me from trying to run a marathon. As stated it takes quite the toll on our bodies and we have to be as smart as possible about it. I think that is all we can do.

TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/14/11 2:32 P

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You're right to the extent that we were talking about death and medical care and training. But training balance is equally important. I'm never going to beat the Kenyans, so I may as well just have fun. And fun does not include killing myself, figuratively or literally.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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11/14/11 1:44 P

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what a great post Nancy. Very well done. That, i think, has been at the root of my personal fizzle of late. Life was pretty out of balance. One big benefit of the marathon is that a half isnt a big deal anymore and certainly alot of fun in that it is FAR easier to recover, even from a hard effort run. I still want to do another full because i am a distance junkie and i love the challenge but this time....with balance. Something i was dreadfully lacking.

Timothynohe- i totally agree, it is easy to do.
emoticon

although this thread started on an entirely different subject line, i think the subject of balance is extremely important and should be discussed more. Family should never be sacrificed or compromised in the name of fitness.

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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/14/11 9:21 A

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On2victory -- Amen to that.

After my 23 miler, I commented to She(WMBO) that it was getting to be too much with not enough return. I was toast! No more marathons after Savannah.

Her reponse?

** TMI Warning **

"Good! I wasn't going to say anything, but your 4:30 runs were cutting into *my* Saturday mornings."

emoticon emoticon

Ahem. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, Know what I mean?

It would seem that I was neglecting my "marital duties" and I don't mean cleaning out garage. And sadly, tellingly, I didn't even notice! Running had begun to replace that very important aspect of our (yes OUR) lives.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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11/14/11 9:14 A

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Robert,

When I attended Greg McMillan's (of McMillan calculator fame) running symposium last summer, he was very insightful that running needs to complement our lives and not become our life. While being physically healthy and active is important, when running begins to consume one's life at the sacrifice of friends and family, he says we need to step back and re-evaluate the purpose for running. A medal will never replace a special moment with our children, spouse, parents or friends but sadly they do for many.

Talking with my running pal, Runner Dave when I asked him what he has done with his 30 plus years of medals--he told me he sticks them in a drawer...it's not the medal or the title that defines him as a runner, but just the mere ability that he can. In 2010 he tripped over his dog (less than 8 weeks before running Boston for his bazillonth time) which required pins and screws...it was at that moment that he realized just being able to lace up his shoes again (when doctors told him he would never run again because of the severity of the break) and pound the pavement was the biggest victory ever.

Nancy

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11/14/11 9:05 A

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Nancy, you bring up a really good point both on the recovery and on life balance. When training for the marathon, so much of my already rare time off was being consumed by running, training, or simply healing up and sometimes hobbling after a 20 miler.

I want to do another marathon in the future but i want to take a more balanced approach. If i can do that then maybe there will be bigger things in store. While my family was supportive and never voiced any opposition, i dont want them to harbor hidden resentment toward the time spent training.

Thank you for raising the point about balance.

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LAURIE5658's Photo LAURIE5658 SparkPoints: (193,193)
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11/14/11 8:58 A

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Also keep in mind folks that the sheer number of runners participating in half marathons alone is growing astronomically! Heck, the number of half marathon events is growing all the time! Statically, the more runners...the chance of someone having detrimental problems increases.


Edited by: LAURIE5658 at: 11/14/2011 (09:13)
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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/14/11 8:51 A

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Oh, not running retirement or even distance running retirement. Just running full marathons. They aren't that much fun. Not enough to balance out the 18, 20, 23, 26 mile training runs! I can run 13 miles now at the drop of a hat. And still have fun! Little soreness. Gone by Monday. That seems to be my distance. I should stick to that. (I may have one full a year ... or not.)

After Thanksgiving I will be setting up my January physical. My doctor is an athlete and he knows where I came from: won't get off the couch, resigned to dying from a heart attack, 90 pounds overweight. He tells me he uses me as an object lesson for other patients who don't believe they can turn it all around. He takes good care of me.

He put me back on the aspirin regimen because plaque doesn't go away and he feels that doing that is a good thing at my age (58). He is not currently concerned about blockages or hardening etc. But that's why I will go back in January. I will ask him if there is some screening program I can participate in to monitor chemical levels. There must be something around here. After all, I live in the Baltimore -- home to Johns Hopkins University and Hospital.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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11/14/11 8:20 A

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I do agree that the push for medals, especially for the RnRs is a big draw...I did 6 RnR events last year and will do 3 this year. All my events were 1/2 marathons (14 halfs in 3 1/2 years, although I had been running for about 2 years before I ran my first one ever ) . I just finished reading a great book titled The Athlete's Guide to Recovery. It is amazing what your body goes through when running. It's not just about your muscles, heart and lungs, it's also about the chemical changes that occur in the body.

And sadly very few people read or educate themselves on what happens to our bodies when running, heck when we exercise in general. The some is good, more must be better must be the way to go. And can you blame them...exercise, especially running, can be addictive, but that doesn't equate to better health. It's all about stress + recovery = adaptation.

Even though I have always been a conservative runner, I think I got caught up in the quest to do better race after race or to prove to myself that if so and so can do that many races, so can I. What I learned is I want a life outside of running. While running is a great activity, life is about balance. When I was training for the Chicago Marathon, when my mileage got in the 15-21 mile range, not only did I find the time training to eat up a big part of my day, but the recovery the rest of the weekend did, too.

Not my intention Timothy to put you into retirement...just to make people stop and think and figure out what is best for them.

Nancy




Edited by: SP_COACH_NANCY at: 11/14/2011 (08:21)
TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/14/11 8:15 A

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Brigit -- excellent articles both. They are in on my ibooks shelf now. Thanks.

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/14/11 8:11 A

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Brigit -- That first article reflects what my doctor told me: 6 - 8 sudden marathon deaths per year average could be reduced to fewer than 1 per years average if every marathoner saw their cardiologist. Not all deaths would be prevented, but nearly. He told me that in every case, there was some pre-existing detectable heart disease factor that the rigors of training and competition exacerbated to cause a heart attack.

And I went through a stretch of about two or three month where I was over-training. My schedule calls for 30 minutes (OK I do up to 40 but that's how long the loop is) Monday and Wednesday, rest or cross training Sunday and Tuesday, long walk Thursday, long runs (greater than 6 miles) on Saturday, and complete rest on Friday. I was running every day And swimming three times a week, Biking twice! I was always sore and tired.

I took two weeks off then got disciplined about the schedule -- meaning if it said no running it meant NO running and if it said rest it meant "watch TV today." That was harder than running every day.

Edited by: TIMOTHYNOHE at: 11/14/2011 (08:18)
Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


ON2VICTORY's Photo ON2VICTORY SparkPoints: (47,452)
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11/14/11 6:53 A

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3 months?? I would certainly agree that that is a real problem. I didnt know about the big medal push in the RNR series. I live a little
too far away from any of those. You are right, that IS crazy.

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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/13/11 11:53 P

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Oh and lack of training! I met up with people at the Savannah Expo who said that they had only decided to run a marathon in the las three months. And none of them had trained for any more than that three months! I have been training on the street, specifically for Savannah, for over 10 months. 44 weeks!

And Rock and Roll series may be partly to blame for the medal quest. They have the Heavy Medal series. I may try for a Grand Slam ... four events in a single calendar year ... if they include their NYC10k in the series. But they have special categories for doing 10 or more. One guy has as his goal to run every RnR event in the US. That can't be good for you.

This year I intend to "diversify." An olympic distance tri, a mudder, and warrior dash if I can find one close by. I am also looking for a riding partner to make the Pittsburgh to DC bike path ride. If I am going to be out doing, I want it to be fun!



Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/13/11 11:36 P

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You talked me back into retirement, Coach Nancy.

I have already bought my bib for the USA Rock and Roll Marathon (3/17/12). I can always change it to the Half. And by always I mean right up until mile 13.0.

In Baltimore I hit the wall at mile 18. It was a slow and easy training run that happened to fall the same day as the event. (My Galloway schedule said I was to do 26 miles that weekend.) However sheer boredom attacked at mile 16.

Three weeks later after Savannah, I looked at my tracking Facebook entries (I would note my time at mile markers and FB progress when I dropped to my next walk) and sure enough mile 16 said "God will this ever end? Mommy, just make it stop." It wasn't from pain. Never had any. It was boredom! I never hit the wall in Savannah because I stay nourished and strictly followed my run/walk cues. If anything I was over generous on some of my walk.

I decided to retire from fulls. Why do something that bores you? May as well watch soccer! Retirement means I can always come out of retirement for a pathetic comeback later. However Half distances have become easy for me and I still have fun. So why not run those? And maintain training!

In recent days, I've been kicking it around to go ahead and run the USARnR Full. Just see if I still get bored at 16.

Never mind.



Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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11/13/11 11:16 P

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I do agree that many people take on this event without allowing their bodies to adapt to the rigors of the sport. When I read that some people tackle a marathon with less than a year of running under his/her belt, it makes my skin crawl. Running is taxing on the body. You must respect the sport and the distance--many don't. They run for the medals and the accolades, but when even the elite runners don't run the number of races many amateur runners do, you begin to wonder the reason behind the need to push their bodies to such extremes.

C-Reactive protein values (markers of inflammation) are quite high after a marathon and can be very damaging to the heart and other organs. Add the huge amounts of cortisol (the stress hormone) and you have a perfect storm for issues--running should be fun, but not to be done where it compromises one's health and well being.

Nancy

HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
11/13/11 11:13 P

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It seems like a significant number of these deaths occur in runners who were training at very high levels.
Here is an article that I found helpful to understand a little more of what may be going on:

content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippian
ho
tmail/files/Athletes-Fit-But-UnhealtR>hy.pdf
content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippian
ho
tmail/files/Athletes-Fit-But-UnhealtR>hy.pdf


Also:
content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippian
ho
tmail/files/The-Overtraining-SyndromR>e.pdf


Too much training can be just as bad as too little.

Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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ON2VICTORY's Photo ON2VICTORY SparkPoints: (47,452)
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11/13/11 11:06 P

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wow, thats pretty sad. For what its worth, my opinion is that there is a possibility that the individual may have done the necessary training but, like many other marathoners, had hidden issues from his/her previously unhealthy lifestyle. if this was their first marathon, like we all know, the rigors of an actual race are far more than in training so maybe the stress of the actual race may have been the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

Just a theory and opinion only of mine but it is also echoed on page 303 of Runners World, Complete Book Of Running, chapter 39 ''will the marathon kill you''

in spite of all that, id rather get out there..... Its far safer than sitting on a couch.

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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/13/11 11:01 P

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A doctor can rule out arterial blockages and prolapse valve problems which also contribute. Besides, it's still a great idea.

And what you said was something my doctor said, I'm less likely to die running a marathon or shoveling snow than I am sitting on my couch.


Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


ETTEZEUS's Photo ETTEZEUS Posts: 21,991
11/13/11 11:01 P

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Very sad news. This runner was only 32 years old.

Suezette
Sunny Florida

Life IS Good!!




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11/13/11 10:57 P

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Hi,

I wrote a blog about this topic last June (see my SparkPage) that reveals the high inflammatory process that occurs from running mileage this high...not just for the run itself, but the weeks and months of training that goes along with it. I'm not too sure if medical evaluations prior to taking on an event of this magnitude is a guarantee that anyone who is at risk can be weeded out.

What my take is, while that seems like a lot of people (3 out of easily 60,000 people), how many people die sitting on their couch watching a Sunday football game that is never reported. There are risks in every thing that we do, but I would risk dying running than I would dying of occluded arteries from lack of physical activity.

Nancy

TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/13/11 10:56 P

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You have a year.

Go to your doctor and tell him/her what you are planning. If you aren't offered a referral to a cardiologist, ask for one. Orthopedist too.

Get a training program and follow it. I started with a half marathon program that got me through the Maryland Half in May. It trained run/walk. I then got Jeff Galloway's book (ask at Fleet Feet) and followed it. www.jeffgalloway.com/ Again Run/walk.

Use good sense when you run the marathon. And if you find that the full is not your race, make your first your last. Don't do something that is a chore or painful.



Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


SHRINKINRUNNER's Photo SHRINKINRUNNER Posts: 6,450
11/13/11 10:47 P

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I said the same thing to someone the other day...Am I going to die? I know I won't (I hope!) but seems like each one is now having a death and SO CLOSE to the finish! I have my 1rst FULL November 2012. I do not know what is going on or why it is happening like this but I don't like it. Prayers go out to their families!

**Jodymarie**

~*I met my original goal weight of 150 lbs, now I am going for an ultimate & last goal weight of 120 lbs. Then I will maintain!*~

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Nothing tastes as good, as sexy feels! Remember that! :)

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TIMOTHYNOHE's Photo TIMOTHYNOHE Posts: 4,317
11/13/11 10:41 P

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This time Sna Antonio Rock and Roll at the Half finish. This is the third week in a row for Rock and Roll marathons that a death has occurred: LA, Savannah, and San Antonio. On October 9 in Chicago another died 500 yards from the finish.

Are people seeing their doctors? Are they preparing?

Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing the impossible -- St Francis of Assisi

Rock 'n' Roll Dublin Half Marathon, Dublin, Ireland, 8/5/2013
ie.competitor.com/dublin/


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