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LADYIRISH317's Photo LADYIRISH317 Posts: 55,219
2/13/11 12:45 P

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On an episode of Iron Chef America Bobby Flay used an older model pressure cooker. When it finished cooking, My jaw absolutely dropped when he walked past it and, almost without looking, knocked off the regulator with a chef's knife! Looked cool, but I'd be TERRIFIED that it would explode! I do realize the time pressure in Kitchen Stadium, BUT...

"...there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

"We're children of a fighting race that never yet has known disgrace." (The Soldiers' Song, Irish national anthem)

"Every day above ground is a good day." (Chef Justin Kennedy of New Orleans, on Chopped)

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/13/11 12:42 P

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It's back! I saw the electric pressure cooker at Costco!

However, I decided against buying it. It is WAY too large for my kitchen. I've decided to save up for a stovetop pressure cooker from William Sonoma. It has a pressure gauge that you set, and it automatically regulates pressure. Quite pricey, though. But I think it is a better fit for my kitchen.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 2/13/2011 (12:43)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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SEDGEY's Photo SEDGEY SparkPoints: (25,737)
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2/10/11 3:16 P

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Old beans also take a much longer time to cook. I once ran into a batch that just wouldn't soften. Toss!

Nowadays I buy from the bulk section at the co-op. Lots of turnover for a fresher product.

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/10/11 12:13 P

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I think I found out why split beans after soaking are thrown out. I had some beans that I don't know how old they are. Most of them split when soaked. I decided since I didn't know how old they were, I'd just toss them and replace with new beans. Very few of the new beans split after soaking. So I think the advice to throw out split beans is because they are old.

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/9/11 12:31 P

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Well, that was actually my point. Whether it does or doesn't, toss the soaking water, and boil for 10 minutes. :)

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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CHEFWITCH's Photo CHEFWITCH Posts: 887
2/9/11 12:24 P

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So is it "some" is removed or is it a percentage? The sites you and I both linked to gave no definitive answers to soaking - but did for boiling for a minimum of 10 minutes. We can agree to disagree - but I wouldn't put all my faith into the FDA, they are NOT an infallible source of food information; I base my knowledge on my textbooks, my professors and my years of culinary experience. To add, 30% of all foods we consume have lectins in them, kidney beans just happen to have more than most and since no one is going to eat a 10 minute kidney bean, I would have to say the point is moot.

I'll leave the dead horse now.



Edited by: CHEFWITCH at: 2/9/2011 (12:25)
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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/9/11 11:36 A

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This isn't the one I was looking for, but it is similar.

www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceR
eg
ulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocumentsR>/Biotechnology/ucm096095.htm


"Many legumes contain relatively high levels of lectins and cyanogenic glycosides. Lectins, if not destroyed by cooking or removed by soaking, can cause severe nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea."

Phytohemagglutinin is a lectin. Lectins are water soluable. They cannot be removed through soaking alone, but do reduce the content.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 2/9/2011 (11:37)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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CHEFWITCH's Photo CHEFWITCH Posts: 887
2/9/11 10:28 A

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Listen, I'm the same way about information and research - I figured I should put it to good use and go back to school to further my food knowledge compulsion!! I have this weird need to know about exotic ingredients and I get random questions from friends who are looking to 'stump' me. Proves I have a problem, really. emoticon I look forward to further discussions - I think we could get some really great topics going.

My nasty food poisoning came from a shawarma place in Los Angeles - the worst case of Salmonella I'd ever encountered. Forget the fact that I thought I'd die, I was in so much pain I WANTED to. I had to get an IV at the ER because I was so dehydrated. Gross.



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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/9/11 10:18 A

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I believe you. :) FWIW, I saw the explanation I gave below elsewhere, but I cannot recall where. I tend to be a bit compulsive about these things and do lots and lots of research. I have a phobia of food poisoning (having had a rather unpleasant experience with e coli from a kabob restaurant), and research these things to death. Definitely some faulty info out there, so appreciate you bringing this up.

If I can find it, I will post it.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 2/9/2011 (10:23)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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CHEFWITCH's Photo CHEFWITCH Posts: 887
2/9/11 10:11 A

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At the risk of sounding argumentative; the FDA site is vague and a bit misleading because it tells you to soak for 5 hours but does not give any in depth information on toxin removal - the only way to neutralize phytohemagglutinin is with heat, by fully cooking; soaking will only aid in shortening the cooking time and making it easier for the beans to be cooked completely (as well as cleaning dusty beans). I just recently completed a course on food borne toxins and illnesses about 6 months ago as part of my nutrition degree.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Foodb
orneIllness/FoodborneIllnessFoodborneP
athogensNaturalToxins/BadBugBook/ucm07
1092.htm

Edited by: CHEFWITCH at: 2/9/2011 (10:12)
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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/8/11 4:24 P

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I don't remember where I read it, I thought it was the FDA, that said soaking can remove 20-60% of the toxin, and that's why they recommend at least 5 hour soaking. However, dried red kidney beans contain so much, even at 60% reduction it can make you ill. No matter what, soaked or no soak, they must be boiled for 10 minutes.

In any case, to answer to original question, I cooked black beans. I threw out the split ones before soaking, but the ones that split after soaking I boiled with the rest. My resulting beans weren't photographic quality, but they were delicious!

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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CHEFWITCH's Photo CHEFWITCH Posts: 887
2/8/11 12:15 P

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Soaking kidney beans overnight doesn't actually remove the toxin (called phytohemagglutinin, incidentally) which is only decreased by cooking. The raw beans, soaked or not will still contain the same amount of the toxin until they are fully cooked.

As for throwing out the split ones, it's for appearances, you don't have to throw them out because they'll only cook a little faster than the unsplit ones.

Edited by: CHEFWITCH at: 2/8/2011 (12:28)
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LADYIRISH317's Photo LADYIRISH317 Posts: 55,219
2/3/11 9:03 P

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That explains it -- I've never cooked red kidney beans from raw. For some reason, I always buy them canned.

"...there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

"We're children of a fighting race that never yet has known disgrace." (The Soldiers' Song, Irish national anthem)

"Every day above ground is a good day." (Chef Justin Kennedy of New Orleans, on Chopped)

Please visit my blog:
www.cuisinequests.blogspot.com/


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SEDGEY's Photo SEDGEY SparkPoints: (25,737)
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2/3/11 1:37 P

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I lust after that pressure cooker at Costco! Don't worry, it should be back. I *will* buy that one some day since it eliminates the need to babysit the damn thing. Plus it doubles as a crockpot so I can eliminate an appliance.

I just use an old aluminum Presto with a rocker. It fills the kitchen with steam a bit, but it works fine. The aluminum limits it mostly to beans, but I'll survive for now.

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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/3/11 7:45 A

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I need to get a pressure cooker. I saw an electric pressure cooker at Costco once. I wish I got it when I saw it, because I haven't seen it since. :(

Pressure cooker will definitely break down the toxin, so no worries there!

And if you've been cooking it in your crockpot and haven't had an unexplained bout of food poisoning, then your crockpot is probably cooking it at a high enough temperature to break it down.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 2/3/2011 (13:42)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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SEDGEY's Photo SEDGEY SparkPoints: (25,737)
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2/3/11 1:31 A

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Thanks for the info on the kidney beans! I never soak any beans though since I cook them in the pressure cooker. Kidneys get about 15 mins. at pressure, so I guess they'd be okay. I mostly do garbanzos anyway since I love them and now I don't have to wait 24 hours like they seem to take in the crockpot.

I don't actually throw out the ones that are split usually. I do pick out rocks and manky-looking beans, but I don't worry about the splits. It all eats here. emoticon

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LADYIRISH317's Photo LADYIRISH317 Posts: 55,219
2/3/11 12:38 A

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Thanks for the info -- I never knew that.

"...there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

"We're children of a fighting race that never yet has known disgrace." (The Soldiers' Song, Irish national anthem)

"Every day above ground is a good day." (Chef Justin Kennedy of New Orleans, on Chopped)

Please visit my blog:
www.cuisinequests.blogspot.com/


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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/3/11 12:09 A

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LADYIRISH317: It's only an issue for dried red kidney beans. There's a natural toxin that can give you a bad case of food poisoning. You can remove up to 60% of it by soaking overnight, and tossing the water. The toxin breaks down completely when on full boil for 10 minutes, regardless.

They used to be a problem for old crockpots that wouldn't reach the cooking temperature necessary to break down the toxin.

Edited by: VHALKYRIE at: 2/3/2011 (00:10)
"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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CHEFSOPHIE's Photo CHEFSOPHIE Posts: 21,089
2/2/11 9:31 P

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I'm not sure, but I suspect if they are split they will dry out if boiled for any lenghth of time. I try to make sure that I don't use split beans. I find it doesn't happen that often.

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LADYIRISH317's Photo LADYIRISH317 Posts: 55,219
2/2/11 9:10 P

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Food safety? I thought you soak them to shorten the cooking time! I never soak beans because I cook them in the crock pot.

"...there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

"We're children of a fighting race that never yet has known disgrace." (The Soldiers' Song, Irish national anthem)

"Every day above ground is a good day." (Chef Justin Kennedy of New Orleans, on Chopped)

Please visit my blog:
www.cuisinequests.blogspot.com/


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THINRONNA's Photo THINRONNA Posts: 3,607
2/2/11 3:40 P

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I have no idea about the beans...I wonder if Chef Sophie does...

Edited by: THINRONNA at: 2/2/2011 (15:40)
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VHALKYRIE's Photo VHALKYRIE Posts: 2,015
2/2/11 10:52 A

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I understand why you need to soak dried beans overnight. In the case of red kidney beans, it's a matter of food safety. But recipes that use dried beans often say to throw out split beans from the soaked water. Is there a reason for this? If it's just because they don't look nice in the final product, I'm ok with eating unattractive beans!

"The most effective way to do it, is to do it." - Amelia Earhart

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