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CAROLE914 Posts: 4,970
3/11/14 6:40 P

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Thanks, my PT is happy with my progress, I'm not. emoticon

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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 5,956
3/11/14 5:02 P

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You need to check with your PT or surgeon about your progress.

It took about a year and a half, maybe 2 years before I was close to normal on the shoulder that had surgery...

Never, ever, EVER give up!

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CAROLE914 Posts: 4,970
3/11/14 4:53 P

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Hi,

I had my surgery the end of December. I am only up to 1.5 pounds on my left side.
Should I be further aloneg? I am still weak in my shoulder.

Edited by: CAROLE914 at: 3/11/2014 (16:53)
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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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1/4/14 11:35 A

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Sweet. It comes back fast, but it's always hard to get new PRs.

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1/4/14 9:43 A

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OK, after an embarassing deload last month which jolted me into realizing I was being too inconsistent, I'm happy to report that I'm back lifting the same OP and DL I was in the summer, and I've actually gone UP 5# in both the incline BP and SQ.

Phew



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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 5,956
8/22/13 7:22 A

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Thanks! I'm pretty chuffed, myself!

Started with arms then major lifts, ended with abs and or a cardio finisher.

Now I do the upper body first and lower body second.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 8/22/2013 (07:24)
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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/22/13 7:08 A

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Wow, this is good progress and only a few workouts. I really hope when I get back at it that I can have 50% of this success.

Question about your old workout. Did you do the major lifts at the beginning, middle or end of the sessions typically?

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8/21/13 9:20 P

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"I'm guessing some big moves on teh squat."

Well, BB, yew were rite.

OP went up to 85x5, but SQ went up to 160x5 and I think I can do 165 or 170.

I think the OP will stay at 85 for a while because that was so heavy I could hardly lift the bar off the rack.

SQ on the other hand, could easily go up another 5-10 in the next session. I'll probably even start off with 165 next time.

So to review my progress, I've been trying to work back up to the weight I was lifting back in February when I did a 1RM test.

In February I lifted 75 in the OP (I've already obliterated that) and 175 in the SQ. Right now my theoretical 1RM for squat is 187. Pretty soon 175 will be my 5RM for that. LOL

If I can just manage to get back off this unwanted 10-15 lbs that crept on when I started seeing my bf, I will have some pretty respectable numbars in relation to my body weight.

Stay tuned.

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8/12/13 7:58 P

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You didn't miss anything, you just delayed. emoticon

Your OP to SQ ratio is pretty, well, amazing. You either have a big stall on the OP ahead or a big move up on the SQ. heh. I'm guessing some big moves on teh squat.

I can definitely appreciate the conservative approach. You know that I always preach going up slow and starting low.

Way to keep doing it! I'm glad someone is finding my lost gainz. emoticon

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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 5,956
8/12/13 7:35 P

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Missed my 2nd lift last week due to schedule conflicts, did it today. Went up on both OP and SQ.

OP: old 5RM=65; new 5RM=80; new predicted 1RM=93
SQ: old 5RM=135; mew 5RM=145; new predicted 1RM=169

For comparison, here were my actual 1RMs in February:
OP: 75
SQ: 175

So I've already EXCEEDED the 1RM and done 5RM at a heavier weight in the OP. SQ is getting closer to what it was back then. Of course I was at a lower body weight, so I will need to get more serious about the eating to make these respectable again. (I'm carrying extra fat not muscle so cutting a little shouldn't impact the strength much.)

The only explanation I have for the OP improvement is that my repaired rotator cuff may have continued healing during this time and now can hold up something closer to the weight it was supposed to. (Compared with the other lifts, the OP 1RM was freakishly low in February, and I noticed my repaired shoulder failing.)

I've been following the progress on Bill's back strain ( bb531.wordpress.com ) and have no wish to join him on the frustrating sidelines so I'm going up with these fairly conservatively. At some point in the next week or two I'm going to start to feel like the weight is just too damn heavy to lift safely and at that point I will back off again.

For now I will swig my celebratory Syntrax shake and enjoy knowing that at least my shouldar seems to be back in commission... (I should take it back to the PT and do the same strength tests again to see. That would be fun.)

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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/2/13 8:16 A

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That's a pretty awesome OHP, btw.

I'm still a big fan of slower progress in favor of consistency (meaning it's mentally and physically a bit easier to get under the bar when you're not trying new maxes every single session). It's totally at your discretion though. As long as you're putting more weight on the bar, I don't think it's too important how much it is. My lift partner went up 20 pounds a couple of sessions on deads because it was clear it was just too damn light. He started way light (135), but that's fine, he had never done deads before and needed to work out technique.

Don't think about it too much. Just think about getting under the bar. That's your only job. heh.

You'll probably be surprised at how quickly things return. I hear it's like muscle mammaries or something.

Oh, and if anyone cares, I've got some weird thing with my back. I can only describe it as "tight" (it doesn't really hurt). These days, I play it extra cautious. I don't want to turn something minor into something major. In the meantime, I'm going to focus exclusively on the upper body lifts until I feel my back is 100%. I hope I feel 100% by Tuesday so I can snatch and clean and jerk. emoticon

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 8/2/2013 (08:21)
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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 5,956
8/2/13 8:07 A

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OK, that's just weird.

My OP has already exceeded the prediction of a 5RM WITHOUT the deload.

(I did a 1RM OP in February and got up 75.) Yesterday I did:

Warmup 45x5
Workset1 55x5
Workset2 60x5
Workset3 65x5

And they were not hard, so I think I can go up to 70x5 for my workset next time. Maybe even 75.

When I did the 1RM in Feb the thing that failed was my right shoulder - the one that had a rotator cuff surgery in the spring of 2011. It is possible that I'm seeing the effects of 4 additional months of healing, although since I haven't been lifting (or even doing the PT exercises) it's hard to imagine I've gotten that much stronger.

I wonder how much of the "loss of strength" on the DL and SQ might be attributed to the fact that I've got about 10-15 more lbs on ME than I did in February?

Weird stuff.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 8/2/2013 (08:08)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
7/31/13 8:48 A

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An hour total a week.. if this works well for you it'll be awesome!

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7/30/13 9:12 A

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Tis amazing how good those estimates are. They're not perfect, but it gets you in the neighborhood for sure.

I like your approach of starting easy and stopping a bit short because things were barking. There is a lot of time for progression and sh1t goes south pretty fast when you find yourself sidelined with an injury.

You will definitely get more efficient. I would say less than 30 minutes is a real possibility. Of course, after you finish your main lifts for the day, you can do more, but it's not required.

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7/29/13 11:40 P

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@4A-HEALTHY-BMI - great return to the gym. Making that a routine is gonna' pay off for you!
emoticon

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7/29/13 8:56 P

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I wrenched my shoulder in an ugly eddy on the river the weekend before last, so that delayed my start by a week.

First, I would like to say that those estimates for starting weight were damn close. Unbelievably close.

I estimated I could put up 69 on the bench and managed 1 set of 65 and two more of 70. And I really did feel like that was the most weight I could do without breaking form.

I estimated I could put up 154 on the DL and managed 3 sets of 150. I didn't go up to 155 because my hams and knees started talking to me, so I stayed where I was and focused on form. And it was actually hard.

So, three thoughts, to sum up:

1) Those estimates are super close.

2) Dang, I've lost a lot of strength... :-/ I'm looking forward to getting it back.

3) The total workout took slightly over 35 min. Even with farting around getting re-acquainted with the setup and brushing the COBWEBS off my face as I moved around the rack. Yes, COBWEBS. Ugh. That says something right there. :-p Anyway, Bill's estimate of about 30 min was good.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 7/29/2013 (20:57)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
7/19/13 8:58 A

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Oh for sure, I didn't mean to imply it is absolutely required, or that it might be a barrier. I have done all these lifts with reasonable success barefoot. But it's potentially a good addition for someone who believes they will continue at it.

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7/19/13 8:29 A

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Interesting and unexpected insight. Thanks, BB

Edited by: DOUGDC at: 7/19/2013 (08:29)
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7/19/13 7:24 A

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I have no basis for comparison with the Olympic lifts. I started in them day 1. The pwar lifts, I would say the press it hurt me and all other lifts it helped. From a price stand point, they ain't cheap and because of that, I'd say get them if you want. They will help, but lifting in bare feet seemed to be sufficient. Whatever you do, do NOT lift in tennis shoes or running shoes. Hard soles or bare feet.

tl;dr, do not make purchasing lifting shoes a barrier. It needn't be.

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7/19/13 7:14 A

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Shoes! Maybe BB will have something more to say, since I have only done one workout on them. I'm noting this only since you're already on board with 'lfiting, not all "ERMAGERD dumbbell deadlifts". Rip says the only piece of gear you have to have is the shoes. BB and I got them and we both immediately thought they helped the squat, and I think BB has reported they help moar lifts (not to mention the oly lifting he's doing). They definitely provide a nice stable platform.

BB went for Pendlay Do-Wins and I went for Rogue 3/4 Do-Wins, but there are various other choices and I could probably start a thread about it if you want to go there.

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7/18/13 7:16 P

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Lets get the band back together. I'd like to see if we can chart a combined weight for our lifts. I want to be able to plot a line going up. Collective stronk!

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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7/18/13 6:34 P

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AB, you happen to be already permitted to my SS lift log.

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=
0A
msc3klPiQZwdE9HQmdsWHdhamxsdUJLQ19iWR>FpMYWc&usp=sharing


I'm still in the first phase, and I've taken a bit of a hiatus mostly because I've been fighting a dental abscess and just got the root canal done today (tooth pain makes for a crappy July 4th weekend, I went to urgent care for my antibiotic script on the 7th). I will definitely be getting under the bar again on Sunday. I'm also planning to do some lighter cardio on off days, and I'm doing a few things not listed, like hamstring stretches and planning to start doing Pendlay's recommended stretches for the clean position and shoulder flexibility.

There are other things going with me too, for example I think something is still wrong with my metabolism so I'm kind of in doctor shopping mode again. The thing is, I've added activity and I've been eating cleaner than I ever have before for a long time, and my weight just keeps inching up. Maybe it really is the cancer. I kid, but in any case I sure think something just isn't right.

4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 5,956
7/18/13 6:10 P

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Thanks for the advice.

I will probably just use the bare 45 lb bar for the warmups that are smaller than that. We'll see. These numbers are just darts tossed at a wall for starting points. I've never had problems increasing weight in the past so I'm not terribly worried about that part.

Mainly I'm here to get myself under the bar again, because in the 4 months I've been away I haven't been pleased with the results.

Are you in? Gonna share records with us too?

emoticon

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 7/18/2013 (18:15)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
7/18/13 6:03 P

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You may consider moving up by different amounts per lift, to keep them proportional. I go up 5 lbs on squat and bench, 10 lbs on deadlift, 2.5 lbs on press.

Don't waste yourself out too much on deadlifts, if 3 sets is too much, just do 2, or 1 (starting strength only has one work set of deadlifts). Heavy as you can do for 1x5 is better than going lighter for 3x5. It's the _weight_ that causes the adaptations we're looking for.

Similarly consider more than one warmup set on your first lift of the day, and as your weight goes up. You might want to do two warmups once you're over 200lb on deadlift for example.

How do you warm up at 29lb or 35 lb? Do you have a women's bar? Using one dumbbell?

There's more I could say, but I think that's all I should say lest I wreck the beautiful simplicity that is this program. Go get chalked, and get stronk!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRn2s-IDC6o

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7/18/13 5:31 P

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Oh yes!

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7/18/13 5:01 P

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OK, I'm in!

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=
0A
h4KrA4GkhKgdGp1bm5fdjY5ZU1pb0ppRTlHZR>XlJZEE&usp=sharing


------------------------------

Here's how I came up with my starting numbers:

Theoretically the 5 RM is 0.856 x 1RM

See this table here:
www.timinvermont.com/fitness/
orm.htm

Or I suppose you can calculate 1/x from these tables:
www.weightrainer.net/training
/coeffici
ents.html

I'm using the first one.

So that is what I'm going to try and use as a baseline. Then I'm going to deload by taking another 10% off to account for the 4 months off.

So for example my actual squat 1 RM was 175 in February.
www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_pu
blic_jour
nal_individual.asp?blog_id=52
48234

The 5 RM for that should be 149.8 and 90% of that is 134.82 (let's call it 135). That's what I'll start with as my baseline. And the warmup weight will be half of that (68).

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 7/18/2013 (17:15)
Never, ever, EVER give up!

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7/18/13 9:18 A

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I put this together for some folks, but thought I'd post it here for discussion. I've been doing this program for the past 3 months (with a friend of mine who is a rank beginner). We've been having quite a bit of success. Anyway ....

This program is for healthy boys AND girls. Men and women have the same musculature, separate programs for men or women are not required. If you have injuries or health issues, this might be the wrong program for you. I'm not a strength coach, a trainer and I'm certainly not a doctor, so check with your appropriate professional before starting.

Let me start off by saying that this is heavily borrowed from Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength. Starting Strength was the most effective program I've ever done. If you want to do Mark's program, buy the book (link at the bottom), stop reading my blog and do it. You will make awesome progress.

But Real Life Happened
A word about the goals of this program. I'm not a strength coach or author, so I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. I simply had goals based on the need of my training partner to get the most bang for the buck. We need to get in and get out of the gym. It needed to be SIMPLE. As he said to me "I don't wanna read no book". Lucky for him, I already did several, in fact.

Let me talk about progressive overload briefly. If you're familiar with the concept, skip to the next paragraph. Progressive overload provides the stimulus to build muscle. Muscle is built when the body adapts to stress. If you do the same thing over and over, new stress is not introduced, so new adaptations (muscle, in our case) are not produced. There are two ways to produce new stress in weight training, either add weight, add reps or both. If you're doing the same thing over and over, you're wasting your time. Stop wasting time.

OK, FINALLY the program, complete with progressive overload.

It's 4 lifts. That's it. The lifts are:

Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Squat
Barbell Press
Barbell Deadlift

Yes, I said barbell, not dumbbell, not bands, not pink rubber coated weights. I have reasons that I don't want to discuss now, but let me stress that the barbell is important. You might say, but I don't want to accidentally Arnold Schwarzenegger! You will not "bulk up". Bulking up is a function of eating, not lifting.

This program is to be done 2 days a week, with at least 1-2 days in between each session. Each session you will perform one upper body and one lower body move. So day 1 might be bench press and deadlift. The second day will be the overhead press and the deadlift. That's it. No more and absolutely no less. You should be out of the gym in less than 30 minutes. We're talking 1 hour a week to build some muscle.

Now that you're at the gym and have selected your upper body and lower body lift (I recommend doing upper body first), you are to perform 3 work sets with a goal of 5 reps per set. To spell it out, your workout log for week 1 might look like this:

Day 1
Bench Press - 100 pounds
Set 1 (warm up) 50x5
Set 2 (workset 1) 100x5
Set 3 (workset 2) 100x5
Set 4 (workset 3) 100x5

Deadlift - 150 pounds
Set 1 (warm up) 75x5
Set 2 (workset 1) 150x5
Set 3 (workset 2) 150x5
Set 4 (workset 3) 150x5

Day 2
Overhead Press - 80 pounds
Set 1 (warm up) 40x5
Set 2 (workset 1) 80x5
Set 3 (workset 2) 80x5
Set 4 (workset 3) 80x5

Squat - 130 pounds
Set 1 (warm up) 65x5
Set 2 (workset 1) 130x5
Set 3 (workset 2) 130x5
Set 4 (workset 3) 130x5

Note: rest a couple of minutes between each set. For the lower body work you may need 3-4 minutes (especially for the last work set). Do NOT over think resting. Just rest until you feel you can do another set and do it.

The notation above is weight x reps. Now here is the good news, you completed all 5 reps for all 3 of your work sets, next week you increase your weight by 5 pounds. So in our example, you'll be benching 105, deadlifting 155, pressing 85, squatting 135. Congratulations and enjoy, this will not continue forever!

Oh and WRITE IT DOWN. Write your work set lifts every single time. Keep this log somewhere that is easily accessible. Track your progress, it's rewarding. If you're putting weight on the bar, you're getting stronger and you're getting stronger everywhere. If you want an example of a log sheet, let me know and I'll send you mine.

What If I Don't Hit All 5 Reps?
Just remember, 3 strikes and you're out! You're not going to progress forever, and some days/weeks are worse than others. If you've stuck with the program and lifted at least twice a week, follow the 3 strike rule. If you don't hit all of the reps on the work sets DO NOT INCREASE WEIGHT, try again next week with the same weight. If you miss again, try again the following week. If after 3 attempts (weeks) you cannot complete all 5 reps, you need to deload.

What is Deloading?
Deloading is a form of periodization, let's not detail that right now. To deload, remove 10-15% of the weight, and start over. For example, if I tried to clear 100x5 on the bench press and I failed to clear 5 reps for 3 weeks in a row, I would start my fourth week with 90 pounds on the bar and try to clear 5 reps for all 3 work sets. It's basically a "reset" and then continuation of the normal program. So if I cleared 90 pounds for all 3 work sets, the next week, I'd try 95 pounds.

Selecting starting weights
Obviously, I made up the weights above. Yours will vary, greatly. The best recommendation I can make here, especially if you're new to barbell training. Start light, start VERY light. Squat the bar, squat a broomstick if you have to. We will typically put something on the bar for each lift and see if we can get close to 5 reps (for 1 set). You keep feeling around a little until you find the number that works. Again, start light. Start ridiculously light if you want and use the time where the weight is light to practice form and get used to scheduling this program into your life. GET CONSISTENT!

Learning the Lifts
The lifts are the most important part of the program. Doing the lifts CORRECTLY is critical. These are compound movements involving many muscle groups. It is highly advised you buy Starting Strength or hire a coach for lessons. You'll likely want a gym that specializes in barbell training, not a cardio shop.

If you want to attempt them yourself (again, do not recommend this approach), there are several resources on the internet.

Here are some videos.
www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detai
l/
view/name/barbell-squat

www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detai
l/
view/name/barbell-deadlift

www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detai
l/
view/name/bench-press-powerlifting

www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detai
l/
view/name/standing-military-press


Congratulations! You're now a heavy lifter! You've incorporated a progressive overload program comprised of heavy, compound lifts complete with periodization. You're doing it in about 1 hour PER WEEK.

A parting rant about fitness minutes. Fitness "minutes" are the world's worst unit of measure. Spending minutes at the gym does not me anything. Lose any love you have for fitness minutes and concentrate on putting more pounds on the bar. Pounds on the bar = success, consistency = success, fitness minutes = nothing. I don't care how many minutes you spend in the gym, ever.

----- FAQ and Informational Items Below (Optional Reading) -----

What does this replace?
This replaces anything you previously considered strength training. You don't need those random DVDs that you follow along, you don't need a bootcamp, you can definitely lose the pink dumbbells. These lifts sufficiently stimulate all of the major muscle groups. More work may be detrimental. If 5 reps of squats and deadlifts are not kicking your ass after a few weeks, you're doing them wrong. The repetitive nature of DVDs combined with isolation movements and little or no progressive overload = wasting time.

What about my abs?
These are full body, compound, loaded movements. Your abs will get a ton of stimulation. Additional ab work, especially in the first several months, will NOT be necessary.

But I also want to do (my favorite exercise)!
I don't recommend it. Again, these are full body lifts, additional lifting isn't necessary. Less is more! If you want to try more, feel free, but just a warning that it may be counterproductive.

What about cardio?
You can do cardio if you want, but keep it SANE! I would say high intensity for 15-30 minutes no more than twice a week (and independent of lift days) is totally fine. Hell, it might be helpful. Low intensity cardio (i.e. walking) is going to be fine too. I would avoid long duration steady state cardio (i.e. jogging more than 3 miles). You can build more aerobic capacity with HIIT than steady state anyway, so why waste time?

What about power cleans, barbell rows, chins?
Mark Rippetoe's program calls for these additional movements. I think Mark's program is a little more suited for younger folks with athletic goals. These people may also have less daily responsibilities and therefore more time to spend in the gym. It is of my opinion that us "normal" middle aged folks don't need to squat 3 times a week and the dynamic nature of power cleans can introduce more risk than reward. For most people like us, a plan that gets you under the barbell consistently is going to be a lot more beneficial than what 99% of beginners do. If you really get into lifting, start doing more dynamic movements.

Again, I think Mark Rippetoe's program is great, certainly better than this one. If you want to do it, do it. But my goals were to simplify and consume less time.

Here is the Starting Strength program.
startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:
Th
e_Lifts

startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:
Th
e_Program


Here is a link to Mark's great book.
www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd
-M
ark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738


Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


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