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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/25/12 1:35 P

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If you stop eating bouldars you'll get your dog and your truck back. Evidently your best friend Jack, too. LOL.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/23/12 1:49 P

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Bouldars were a failure on this side. In fact, I gave the rest of the box to my junk food family for quick disposal. Thoroughly disappointed. They had so much potential too. I think it caused me to gain weight and it gave my dog heartworm.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/23/12 1:45 P

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Hmm, good point, the rate did seem to increase about the time I started on the Bouldars rather than the PB capn crunch. It probably has something to do with it. Unfortunately there's a pretty high p-value to that assertion given it's an n=1 experiment. Eager to see your results with teh bouldars.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/20/12 8:03 P

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I think the secret is the Smarties and Post Pebbles Boulders. But I won't tell anyone, especially the LC'ers.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/20/12 5:59 P

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Losing weight at a rapid clip, and PT on the shoulder is going well. We'll see, but I'd expect to be ahead of where I used to be by this time next year.

GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/16/12 5:43 P

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Just two words, people.

Killing. It.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/10/12 7:21 A

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+1 here. It's a good site. I read it a lot over the weekend and have added it to my bookmarks for regular visitation.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/10/12 7:11 A

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I'm not planning to issue a graph today, but suffice it to say that my weight is trending down nicely, and I just have to stay the course.

Interesting site of the day is suppversity.blogspot.com/ . I need to read more of this; it looks to have some way interesting things to say on marcos, metabolic types, IF and more.

GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/6/12 8:47 A

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Other candy corns are not worth it; there is a clear difference between Brach's and other brands. Even the Brach's ones that I have are getting... well not quite as nicely textured as they began. But they still retain the superior candy corn flavor. I'd probably rather have a Snickers but that would be less satisfying for the calories and more dangerous to have around.

I didn't eat a burger as you'll see... I had half an order of fish & chips, and probably 35-40% of the calories in an order of the ensenada chicken. I wasn't so much in the mood for the burger since I had that one last week. However with this plan Lev and I have worked out I can probably afford the burger in the future. Previously I have just eaten the whole burger when I get it, and at 957 kcal it just didn't really quite fit in yesterday. However half that plus half the ensenada chicken would fit in just fine plus boost my pro and lower my fat numbers relative to eating the burger. Since we have a plan that really works well, I won't have to be too skittish about going there which will be nicely convenient.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/6/12 6:57 A

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"I also think Brach's candy corn is one of the most "worth it" snacks."

Really? I always thought that stuff had the flavor and texture of dried toothpaste. Only eaten at Halloween after you get to the bottom of the treat bag. emoticon

Well done on the on-the-fly calorie jiggling. I'll check the tracker for details. Honestly, I think a hamburger, without too much goop is probably one of the best choices you can make in a pinch, so Red Robin ... YUMMM! Good luck with Easter. No family here, so no big meal. Although there are rumblings of a BBW because the weather is so damn perfect.

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 4/6/2012 (06:59)
Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/6/12 6:01 A

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All my snacks are pre-portioned, we don't even have the full container around the house. I just grab a selection of small single portions in the morning before I leave, and that is all I have at work. It makes it pretty difficult to overeat anything. And the chocolate pom arils are one of the most worth it snacks, I think. Check out the calories on the entire tub - it's actually not too bad. My little 50 kcal packets are totally worth it. Also, I almost never dip into my snacks other than loading my lunch box so it works out great for me.

I also think Brach's candy corn is one of the most "worth it" snacks. Those came pre-portioned -- we bought a few extra bags of the individual pack ones at Halloween. One of those totally cuts a sweet tooth down for only 50 kcal. As a matter of fact, I think I'll go through all my snacks this weekend and figure out what I think is worth it for the moment and put the rest away for now.

I'm going to try to plan to fit 2x Easter meal into this plan, too, though I may allow myself up to 2500 kcal. I'll probably not eat breakfast... fasting until the first meal around noon would probably be effective in controlling overall calorie intake.

I'll give this plan at least a couple weeks to see. I predict nowhere near Spark's 1.5 lbs/wk loss though. Somewhere between 0.5 and 1 if it even works at all.

I'm actually still really happy about last night... we somewhat spontaneously decided to go to dinner with GF's parents (we were over there giving them their vehicle back after my car had gotten repaired) and we plotted and planned how to fit in my calories on the fly. It worked out great. Splitting another item and the ensenada chicken salad is probably something we will do often there in the future, because that really cuts down the calorie load at that place big time.

KENDRACARROLL's Photo KENDRACARROLL Posts: 2,231
4/5/12 9:51 P

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Nice! That looks like a reasonable calorie range for you.

I almost picked up some of those chocolate covered pomegranate seeds yesterday. But, too dangerous. I'd probably eat the entire tub in one sitting.

Curious to find out how much you'll lose in one week, sticking to your newly established calorie intake.


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/5/12 9:07 P

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Freshly established target, 2000-2200 kcal. I adjusted the spark tracker so the top of its range roughly equals that (it's 2190 kcal I think). It tells me I'm going to lose 1.5 lbs/wk on that range. Harumph, we'll see.

....and now that everyone's caught up... how's today for eating within range? I even ate dinner at Red Robin again. We pre-planned what to get so that I'd stay in range.

I am going to start going heavier in pro for my snacks and reduce the carb junk food type snacks. It worked great today.

GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/3/12 5:46 P

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The data is inconclusive because I forgot to weigh yesterday (or at least to enter it) so what happens to me after a refeed will have to wait until I have better data collection.

Getting up Monday was extra hard because we tried to do a drop-and-run mission at a friend's house who got talkative and it turned into a 1.5-2 hour drop-and-run mission. Gag me with a spoon.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/3/12 10:52 A

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Ah, OK, I figured when I get to the office at 7am no one else is awake yet. But you're already eating and working. heh.

What I'm saying is that I pretty much without, in absence of alcohol, will notice a good sized spike in weight the day immediately following a refeed. Either I'm getting my dates confused or you had a 2 day wait before the spike. Just thought that was interesting.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/3/12 10:34 A

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You're looking at today, yesterday is complete at 21-something.

I don't understand what you're saying about expected weight patterns, but my weight is crazy, I suspect, because I didn't from noon until probably 9p.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 4/3/2012 (10:36)
BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/3/12 6:56 A

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Is your tracking from yesterday complete? 1092 calories? I would have expected a pop in weight on Monday and a slight easing today. You seemed to have the opposite reading (if I'm reading your app output correctly).

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/3/12 5:33 A

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https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2sc3klPi
QZwWExmSWZjTWxTREc3cktMejFrd21JQQ

Imagine me singing "Love Rollercoaster" LOL

At least Libra is reporting a forecast of -0.7 lb/week. We'll see what tomorrow's water balance looks like.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 4/3/2012 (05:37)
GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/2/12 7:28 A

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LOL, it's called creative tracking. We dined at a microbrewery/restaurant in AA called The Jolly Pumpkin. We had a 5x beer flight and a bottle of Cherry Stout (from whom I forgot, but it wasn't all that cherry - and Sharon liked it OK anyway LOL), a truffled fries app, a chipotle and smoked chicken pizza (thin crust), and an apple fritter w/ice cream dessert. Lev no doubt just tried to find something close-ish.

I had ice cream Sunday too. I was pretty hard on my whey allergy this weekend, and possibly unsurprisingly had an asthma attack mowing the lawn Sunday. I guess that's what I get, LOL. At least my asthma attacks aren't completely incapacitating. I probably should have hit the inhaler but by the time I realized what was going on I was done with the required activity anyway. Besides some landscaping stuff I also replaced Lev's rear brake discs and pads yesterday, and walked around town a lot Saturday, so it was a pretty active weekend too.

In other news, this weekend I finally finished a 374-page thread I was reading about a specific type of speaker design. Damn that took freaking forever! I should probably have done a tl;dr but at least now I understand a lot more about that subject, and got that a bit out of my system.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/2/12 7:06 A

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Oh derp, for some reason I thought Archer Farms was a restaurant. So I imagined you with some Guinness in your lap driving to these various places and getting one item.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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4/2/12 7:03 A

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Your Saturday dinner completely baffles me. Some Guinness, a small fry at McDonalds, Archer Farms pizza, apple fritter and ice cream. How is that logistically possible?

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
4/2/12 5:33 A

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Saturday was a bit the start, but I didn't really eat much over - but Sunday was a refeed day. I made an attempt to pig out, though I wasn't as successful as I should have been and the foods were kind of fatty rather than low-fat carby, but hey it's a good excuse to eat a Speedy Freeze. We will be making an attempt to log my food which shouldn't be too difficult. Things are still going well, we will see how they develop in coming days.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2sc3kl
PiQZwcDFrMWRnMllRZWFTNklKY093SmRIQQ

Should appointment today. Talking to lev yesterday I found out she had told me before she had an orthopedist in the area she likes, except the guy today is a referral from my (possibly jerk) doctor. So we'll see how it goes - if I don't like this guy I may try her guy.

4A, I was looking for info on your shoulder treatment - did you send that along?

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 4/2/2012 (05:33)
BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/31/12 6:40 A

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Nice!

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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/30/12 10:07 P

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Check me out, 195g of pure brotein pwar today.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/30/12 8:05 A

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lol, those Michigan Militia guise are still around?? Sheesh. You bet your ass they eat bbq and drink beer. It's the only to get properly nutritioninized,

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 3/30/2012 (08:05)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/30/12 7:53 A

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Yours is better but may violate the "person who cried wolf" principle.

Oops, I meant to say "not-really-health-but-whatever"... as in not really a "health claim". I guess I need to go shower and my typing sucks today! LOL.

Totally right, the older sh1t is the better. This accounts perfectly for the rising popularity of MILF pr0n. Also, we must all build in-deck catapults (well, those of us who have decks). Those of us who without decks must build large trebuchets. Maybe this way we can fend off those Michigan Militia guys.


BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/30/12 7:06 A

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Well, it's obvious, really. Ancient man always cooked over an open flame, i.e. bbq, we later added the tomato based sauce to unleash the power of lycopene. Ancient Sumerians created beer. Apparently the older sh1t is, the more valid it is, so there you have it. Beer and BBQ are ancient ways and what your body desires for fuel.

I like your office idea, we have something similar where every day that ends in Y is a smart ass day.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/30/12 6:53 A

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LOL, yes it was either that or the 2 ounces of tawny port that I consumed last night. Either way it's very similar to the BBQ and Beer diet.

I say when we release the BBQ and Beer diet, we then (2-3 years later) release the BBQ and port diet, saying we have discovered that the resveratrol does something interesting or whatever. I'm sure we can come up with some form of unverifiable not-really-healthy-but-healthy-sounding claim for it that would renew the cash flow stream.

It would be wise to mind my Huddle today. This is something that a coworker and I came up with that we are considering making a tradition.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 3/30/2012 (06:54)
BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/30/12 6:49 A

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BBQ FTW!

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/30/12 5:40 A

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At the moment, all the daily water weight variation and stuff is working for me. In fact dining at Red Robin caused me to lose like 1.2. Then again it did have BBQ sauce on it.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2sc3kl
PiQZwNWNrQW9rR1hUOHVVOEZYYkc1VkMwdw


GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/28/12 11:20 A

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We can talk Germanese then. Ist das nicht ein schnitzelbank? LOL. I only took a term of German and I lost most of what little I may have had so your English is better than my German.

I think it's a matter of opinion whether or not I am "in range". I'm above the "normal" range, but not enough that they immediately think to treat. And that is only on one parameter that is not the only measure - though the only one used by the most conservative docs. I'm also well above the top of the range you are supposed to be pushed into by treatment when it is done. My next appointment _with my current doc_ is in 2 months, but that doesn't mean I can't push them to do better diagnostics more quickly, or just go to another doctor. My current insurance allows me to go wherever I want, so it's an option. As I said, I haven't decided what to do about the situation yet.

I wouldn't say I'm abandoning the IF experiment. I may get back to it in the future. It's just another option. It wouldn't be the first time I have done it and stopped. If something doesn't work then do something else, right?

The title was mostly facetious. My goal is, of course, to get totally jacked.

I probably can't get skinny-fat anyway. I'm sort of muscly-fat right now, actually (if that makes any sense at all). I'd rather be muscly-fat at 240 lbs than skinny fat OR fat fat.

Exercise will help, durr. I will probably do some. But I don't intend to do exercise for the calorie burn anyway, so from a weight management standpoint what's it matter? It will matter from a recomp and capability standpoint, of course. But the ability to fit exercise into my life, at the moment, is a bit of a sore subject. You really don't want to go there. Leave me to do what I can.

I guarantee you I get TONS of nutrient dense foods, regardless of sweet tooth, and I don't believe it matters where carbs come from as long as they are within range / portion controlled / don't cause crash-binge type scenarios. Anyway I'd consider cutting some sweets, but again it shouldn't matter. Remember Mr. Twinkie Diet? Also, all my levels of vitamins and minerals and crap are good if not great. There's no shortage of nutrition here the way I eat today.



KENDRACARROLL's Photo KENDRACARROLL Posts: 2,231
3/28/12 9:43 A

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Back to "at least get un-huge".

But first a disclaimer: While I am a “high intensity thinker” in my own right, I cannot by any means measure up to you guys’ scientific speak. In all honesty, you’re quite often over my head. Plus my ESL vocabulary probably doesn’t make me sound quite as smart :).Yet, I enjoy the dialogue. So from where I stand it’s not all about science. I do believe that this might be hard to understand if your brain thinks science, but maybe a different perspective might be helpful.

Looks like your thyroid thing might be part of the problem. You say that in your opinion you should be treated but as per your latest test you’re within range. Since your next appointment to narrow this down further won’t be for another 2 months, take those 2 months to see what you can accomplish at status quo.

No, I’m absolutely not in the loop with lean gains and intermittent fasting,
Since you’re proposing that you are looking at getting back at eating at 3-hr intervals, does that mean that you are looking at abandoning the intermittent fasting experiment?

Judging from your headline, right now your goal is to get un-huge. In my experience, the simpler the approach the better the success. (That’s just how my simple mind works... - Yet, I’m at goal and maintaining.)

I know that there has been discussion (though not on this thread) about skinny fat people; but from where you stand, what’s better – skinny fat or fat fat?

While exercise is often overrated I do believe that you need to keep your body moving. This is extremely helpful especially if you suffer from depression. But, just because your shoulder is out and you cannot lift, which btw is only part of the exercise equation, it does not mean that you can’t move your legs. Clip on a pedometer and aim for 10,000 steps a day. Yes, that involves getting off your ‘beehind’.

Looking at your food tracker it seems that you have a little bit of a sweet tooth. Maybe substituting some of the sweet snacks for more nutrient dense foods might be helpful. At around 2000 calories a day and some movement you should start losing weight.

And as you go about dissecting and countering the above, I do deserve some credit for being interested and really wanting you to succeed.

And here it goes. I absolutely could not resist…
emoticon

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/28/12 8:48 A

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I was not really involved in the old BBS days so other than having heard of it I've got nuthin'.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/28/12 8:27 A

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I'm much more impressed with the fact that this is the guy who invented ZModem. So many glorious years in my teens and early 20's loving ZModem.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/28/12 7:51 A

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The guy has a ridiculously beautiful home though ( www.omen.com/caf.html ), and a cat named "Entropy". Thumbs up on that one.


GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/28/12 7:49 A

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LOL, that's why it's an "interesting site". It's not "instructional site" or "accurate site" of the day.

I am not sure what that guy's agenda is, or what the point of his maintaining that page is. I'm not sure if everything is adequately referenced, and I'm certainly not on board with everything or even most of what is said. It looks like a lot of it is early-to-mid-90s or before, leading me to believe that lots of it has been flatly disproven by newer, higher-quality, or more well-designed research. It's not clear to me if the guy gets his information from Women's Day, Musclehead Mag, or research reviews. Not that research reviews are to be trusted either... can't readily find where I happened upon the research paper that was written intentionally to point out potential bias that was something like "smoking aids aerobic training" or some such. LOL.

BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/28/12 7:20 A

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huh?

"Normal adults do not retain weight brought on by a period of simple overeating." - sh1t, I gotta say that's EXACTLY what brought it on for me. I can almost pinpoint the exact day.

"The low fat/low cholesterol diet is ineffective. Some researchers now think low-fat high carbohydrate diets are making us fat."

So wtf is this before I continue? Are we going off into the "it's not the calories it's another mysterious force". ? What is the point of all of this?

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3/28/12 6:20 A

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Interesting site of the day: www.omen.com/adipos.html
There's a lot there, and a fair bit of it is unattributed. I can't figure out if the person maintaining that is objective-minded or not, as a lot of it comes way too close to fatosphere ranting for me.

If you guys like that enough we could start a thread on it where we could discuss specifics.

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3/28/12 6:13 A

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Google spreadsheet it is, unless someone has a better idea. I will probably mess around with yours and if I can figure it out I may copy it and use that. If I do so I will probably use BIA too, which I'm not doing now. Would you suggest the scale, handheld, or yes?

I can also export weight graphs from the phone app I guess, though that doesn't really give you actual data, and we all know you can't calculate p-values without actual data, LOL. *facepalm*


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For weight, how about just putting up a google spreadsheet that we can consult?

Yeah, I figure probiotics probably can't hurt. They may or may not be helpful, but I figured it was worth a shot at least mentioning it.

Thanks, yeah 1400-ish was good for back then to kick myself back down to within spitting distance.

Now I'm solidly in "vanity pounds" territory. My running average weight is likely to drop below 150 any day now. And I seem to be headed toward maintaining around 145. I'm here. If I stopped right now I would have met all of my expectations (BMI under 30 and a %bf hovering around under 20).

I like the strength to weight ratio I've got, though, and I think at 145 it'll be amazing. I managed chinups last night for the first time since I was in my 20s. I even did a cheater pull-up (hopped a little to get up - but once I was up I was able to do half ones - the top half).

And I'm noticing that I'm much more sensitive to calorie deficits down here. They can cause mood swings, fatigue, cravings, and all kinds of other weird effects that I was insulated from at a higher %BF / weight. So 1400-ish would be way way too little for me to eat now. I do not like to get under 1750 calories - if I do, I regret it. And the Google spreadsheet says that I'm burning around 2500 calories per day on average. That's crazy when you consider where I came from.

So yeah, metabolism is funny and mine sure has changed a lot in different stages of my life. And that's all even without any documented thyroid issues.

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 9:48 P

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OK, I reviewed this probiotic stuff. It looks like there isn't really evidence that it actually helps anything in humans. Still, I'm sure it falls into the "can't hurt" category at the very least, and may help. I'm willing to try it again but I'm not going to rush to it. Let's try other things and see how it goes for a bit.

Time for bed (past it actually), see you fine folks tomorrow.

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3/27/12 9:36 P

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You haven't really been in the loop with leangains and intermittent fasting, have you? BB and I have been experimenting with it off and on - the version in which you don't eat until noontime, or even later in his case. Basically, good quality research indicates that fasting isn't bad for you and may be good for you, with the caveat that the fasting period cannot last longer than 24 hours - and that doesn't mean just not eating for a whole day, it means you have to eat dinner if you skip breakfast and lunch. And if you do the all-day version you're not supposed to do it very often. Whereas the 8-hour feeding period / 16-hour fasting period schedule (every day) has gotten quite popular amongst the fitness-obsessed. It seems to work well for the metabolically normal.

My thyroid may or may not be functioning properly. I have been on thyroid meds before (in like 2005/6 as I mentioned below). But I have not been medicated since then, so including all the time I've been on Spark. I simply decided that wasn't going to hold me back, and neither was the exercise induced asthma. I know I have mentioned this before around Spark, but I guess it's not on my SparkPage.

Let me put it this way: I ate 1914 kcal today and I had to go back for more dinner just to get to that. I usually eat roughly what I ate today, possibly a little more before I started playing with IF again but not more than 2200-2400 kcal/day (I know because a while back I was tracking everything - if you go back far enough in my tracker you will find it - and eating very similar foods and quantities to now). I have some bigger days, up to probably 3000 kcal/day if I had to guess, but I'd be really surprised if I went over that more than twice or three times in the last six months. So, with that sort of typical intake I weigh 270 pounds today. Now, I have not been exercising at all for the last perhaps 8 months due mainly to an injury I've been trying to let heal. Still, do you think I'd weigh this if I were metabolically normal? Hence my push to go get things checked out. The rest of the details you need to read below - I think all you might need to know and more is there. If you have questions, come back. Thank you, come again.

OK, so with that said, I have been considering how to do the weight thing since I am tracking onto an application on my Android phone that doesn't sync to anything online (other than that it can suck from withings). So we need to do something like designated a day a week I can report my smoothed weight, or something like that. Opinions?

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 3/27/2012 (21:37)
KENDRACARROLL's Photo KENDRACARROLL Posts: 2,231
3/27/12 8:32 P

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Tracking is a really good tool to get an idea of what's going on.
I see you have two days logged. Question, what happened to breakfast?
Just sayin'.
Didn't quite get what's going on with your thyroid. If it's not functioning properly that might very well throw you off your game.

Edited by: KENDRACARROLL at: 3/27/2012 (20:32)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 6:45 P

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Not sure I've heard that calorie story before - thanks. But I did know you have to do the long, slow drop for the last vanity pounds - especially if you want to do it in a healthy way.

I was overtraining in the same way back when I was doing P90X. I could only do it every other day because it wrecked me so badly, and I was definitely not eating enough to fuel the effort.

I can't tell you how happy I am to see you putting up your current calorie numbers. I was super happy when you first told me you were doing 1410. I knew at that point that you were probably past most of the crazy swings in intake we used to see.

BB, I don't really have a calorie target in mind. I just reprogrammed it with my current weight and with .5 pound per week loss planned. It is telling me to eat 2,340 - 2,690. I can tell you that unless I am exercising a fair bit I will gain weight on that. I'd estimate I eat in the range of 2000 kcal when I do IF and I may wind up as high as 2400 when I start eating six times a day. But either way, I plan to eat in roughly the way I have been while tracking for a few days and then go from there.

4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,036
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It was in my 20s after I lost 100+ lbs the first time. I was tracking and eating about 800 - 1000 cal per day and exercising a lot and losing almost no weight. And the nutritionist looked at my food logs and said, "WTF?"

Looking back on it I think I was overtraining. (I was down about where I am now, size-wise - down to what some trainers call "trying to lose the vanity pounds." )

Apparently down here if you want to do body recomposition it takes a lot more than just creating a big deficit. Instead it takes a looooong time at a small deficit coupled with lots of exercise.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 3/27/2012 (18:36)
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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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3/27/12 6:27 P

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I'm willing to put up jack on the tracking side. BTW, I could not tell from your SparkPage what your calorie goals are. I thought I could, but I guess not. What are you shooting for?

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 6:16 P

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OK thanks 4A, will review those this evening.

I am thinking that later may open this up later to something like "team dictates my calories". Call it open- or crowd-sourcing weight loss, LOL. It'd do one of two things: teach me that I just need to quit whining and cut, or else teach y'all that something resembling the much-vaunted "starvation mode" does exist. LOL. I'm pretty sure the latter could happen if I don't exercise at all.

Speaking of which, I wonder what it costs to go get your metabolism actually measured. 4A, you said once you had been certified by docs as having an exceptionally low BMR, how did that happen? Did they put you on a metabolic cart etc or what?

4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,036
3/27/12 2:46 P

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Here's a recent one:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20505531

Here's a summary of another:
scopeblog.stanford.edu/2011/10/study
-s
hows-probiotic-foods-may-alter-metabR>olism-but-can-they-boost-your-health


"A probiotic preparation doesn’t do incredibly profound things to your existing gut composition, but instead impacts its function."

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 12:32 P

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Perhaps two years ago I guess I did have a pretty bad flu. I was retaining water like mad - don't ask me how I know. But I don't think anything that old has any bearing on my current metabolic state.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 3/27/2012 (12:32)
GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 12:27 P

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I have not taken any antibiotics at all in many, many years. I haven't seen any health care professionals at all within the last 4 years. I had a bad earache a couple years ago that I thought about going to a clinic for but it resolved itself the morning I would have gone. I've had so many sinus/ear infections it pretty much became par for the course and I quit doing anything about it after a while. At one time my doctor noted I had a yearly sep or oct visit, when I would come in with my annual earache. I also had what I think was an abscess a couple years ago that cleared itself up too. I think other than being allergic to whey, my immune system is kind of a badass. It also helped that I had little to no exposure to the virus of the month club while funemployed.

So anyway I guess the short answer is... no.

I took probiotics consistently perhaps a year or so ago and it didn't make any apparent difference. I'd consider it now, though - tell me what you know. www.goodbelly.com/probiotic-drink/qu
ar
ts/
is what I was taking before, are these packets somehow better? I think I was drinking about 4oz a day, and I think it is probably more cost-effective than those packets plus it tastes freaking awesome. I'd just eat greek yogurt every day like I was doing for a long time before figuring out the whey allergy thing.

I don't think probiotics would help much here. In fact, it seems that my body has finally adjusted to more fiber now that I think about it. I do occasionally get bloat that is often easily confused with reflux but I have refined my long-acting acid reducer routine and can calm it down pretty quickly with a simethicone pill, though the need for that has grown increasingly rare actually.

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3/27/12 12:00 P

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Aha - very good. Carry on emoticon

Kirsten
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si matris est non gauisus nemo est gauisus
(translation: if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!)


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Yeah, we just wanted to encourage him to start tracking intake again, so we could try and see just how bad the thyroid issue might actually be.

One thing just occurred to me - GL, have you taken antibiotics in the last 6 months or so? Or been super ill?

Because I suspect my metabolism crashed after exposure to a bug in Costa Rica. My fluid balance crashed badly too, and confounds the issue. Whatever the reason, for a while my apparent caloric needs dropped as low as 1400 cal/day.

And what I did about it was rehydrating like a SOB, getting back into my 2x/day workout regime, and taking probiotics. Now my metabolism is up around 2500 cal/day.

So you could just try probiotics - I like the ones from GoLive:
www.amazon.com/PHD-Berry-Balance-Pac
ke
ts-Ounces/dp/B002JJJPYC?tag=manifoldR>s-20
Freeze-dried, multiple strains, prebiotics added, and they taste pretty good. I mix them in with my greek yogurt but you can just mix them with water and drink that way.

Intestinal fauna have a lot to do with metabolism, surprisingly...

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 3/27/2012 (11:55)
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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 11:49 A

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I will also add that it's possible that my LDL is raised due to an inherited defect. My grandfather supposedly has some kind of a situation wherein his body either doesn't properly process cholesterol intake, or makes its own, or something - I never really got the full story. But that BAMF had three angioplasties with over 99% blockage and it never slowed him down.

Also, since I'm great at staying angry, it will probably be next weekend before I have any kind of direction as to what I'm doing here.

In the past when I have dieted down, I have simply accepted lightheadedness as a necessary part of dieting (especially as I was never tracking but I'd bet I typically eat 1500-1800 or sometimes less when I have dieted hard). At this point I'm not convinced, and I'm pretty sure I have an actual medical problem. The most difficult part for me here, I think, will be getting through the anger and depression (which, yes, are worsened or caused by hypothyroidism) to getting something done about it.

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3/27/12 11:40 A

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There is no alternate treatment other than clean living and not trying at fitness/weight.

In 2005/2006 I was on levothyroxine and my TSH level came down to normal from like WAY above normal. The endo society says you should be at point-something up to 3.0 when being treated for hypo. I was tested in 05/06 at 9-10 TSH, which was reduced to 1.x when on the levo. I do remember feeling different at least when I first took it (actually it felt kinda like being on speed), and I'm going to ignore the fact that more progressive endo docs think that the TSH test doesn't tell you all you need to know.

My current (new) doc ordered TSH only, no FT3 or FT4 test, and it came out to something like 5.5. I've been told the standard of care applied by the average doc does not require treatment with TSH levels below 6.0. However I have what I believe are a significant number of typical symptoms, and with my history I think I should be treated or at the very least further investigated - and more quickly than my next 2 month appointment with the doc. I believe my TSH would have been in the 9-10 range except that (1) I eat hugely healthier than I did at that time in any number of ways (2) I am quite heavy at the moment (cl 2 obese by BMI). I suspect if I'd been dieting down aggressively of late and didn't eat as well, and despite or perhaps also because of the fact that I've been avoiding exercise largely due to shoulder injury, my TSH would have looked bad enough to garner immediate treatment.

Other than my LDL (which BTW some cholesterol irregularities are symptoms of hypothyroidism and my other levels including total triglycerides are fine - which is NOT normal for someone with elevated LDL), all my levels in a comprehensive metabolic panel, lipid panel, and CBC are good and I suspect most would be "fantastic" if they had ranges for that on these things.

BB, 4A and I are in contact outside of SP, and they were fully briefed on this. Since classically they are the main participants here, and they suggested I make the thread, I didn't figure it was necessary to provide full background information. Sorry about that, and thanks for your interest and participation.

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Best of luck here - vitamin RAWR - lol!!!
Wait, when you say you're not taking meds for the thyroid... what's your alternate treatment for that?

Kirsten
Peterborough, Ontario

si matris est non gauisus nemo est gauisus
(translation: if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!)


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3/27/12 8:33 A

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BB - I don't think my data will be applicable to anyone else. I think IFing would work great if my body were working properly. At this point I'm not sure if 'lifting would be a help or not.

Hypoglycemia and fuzzy-headedness between meals is a common hypothyroid symptom and I believe that ultimately this, rather than fat-burning or useful calorie reduction (i.e. calorie reduction that doesn't cause a concomitant decrease in metabolism), is what I'm getting out of IF at this point. The theory is that the frequent eating has no metabolic advantage to the metabolically normal, but that it may to the metabolically abnormal - at least to a point (last time I bottomed out at ~215-220 or so, I wasn't tracking, so who knows why). In any case I'm going by total weight for the moment rather than comp, as I'm way too fat for comp to be in the forefront at the moment.

I don't really get what you're saying about IF vs. frequent for absolute vs. comp. But I'm ignoring comp and saying if the above theory is right then for me frequent may be better than IF in terms of absolute weight. But the best way is to test. So, if frequent doesn't seem to be working inside of a month I'll probably go back to IF... or something, we'll figure it out.

yah, Vitamin RAWR, I dig it.

I see where you're going with this summary thing, I'll consider it - however if there's a way to just link you all to a report or something I will do that instead probably. IIRC there's some way to hook that action up on this thing, I will just have to find it again.

I probably won't watch the vid because I didn't see Borat and know virtually nil about the whole thing.

GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 8:18 A

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4A... I don't want the accountability, and I don't think I need it. But I could be wrong and it will probably come in handy later. In any case I'll bend the thread to whatever works for me.

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3/27/12 7:28 A

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Must admit, I'm really interested to see how the frequent meal thing goes. Of course, we don't really have a control for IFing on you because you weren't tracking, but I may end up testing this theory myself and your data will be helpful. I don't believe in frequent vs. IFing from an absolute weight standpoint, but there MIGHT be something from a composition standpoint. I see nothing related to body composition in these studies here:

examine.com/faq/do-i-need-to-eat-six
-t
imes-a-day-to-keep-my-metabolism-higR>h.html


Angry at me is good. It gives me Vitamin RAWRRR which is highly anabolic. One thing about the tracking, if it isn't too much trouble, would you mind posting a summary at the end of the day? I find that having the summary data in one place (one screen) helps out a lot when trying to eyeball for trends. If you don't wanna, that's cool, I'll use SP and mine for myself.

I can totally relate to the random, slight overeating. This is why if I don't track, I don't make progress and if I don't pay attention "listen to my body", it drifts up and up. First gradually, then suddenly. I tried to play it by ear and failed.

I'll check out your ranges and such to avoid asking stupid questions. I like the idea of only doing the diet for now and easing into exercise with a goal of pwar lifting and ultimate when things get managed.

Hope the big life changes are positive ones at the end. Sometimes a bumpy road to get there.

Interesting site of the day for me. If you're a Borat fan, did you hear about the Kazhakstanian that won the medal in competitive shooting in Kuwait? Apparently they screwed up and played Borat's version of the Kazhakstan national anthem during the medal ceremony. I was in tears. If you're not a Borat fan, it probably won't be that funny.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2WH9HVJRFk&
fe
ature=related


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I'm liking this except for one thing...

This is YOUR thread. If you aren't doing it because YOU want the accountability, then don't bother.

Just sayin'

emoticon

Never, ever, EVER give up!

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
3/27/12 6:50 A

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OK here's your thread people. I'll at least start posting weights in here periodically, if not maybe some measurements and lifts.

I'm thinking I'm going to do one more week of the IFing. However since it doesn't seem to be doing much I'm going to try something else. Next week I will probably start doing the "eat every three hours" thing again. It was working with no exercise when I started this journey (I don't really recall if I was walking a lot right at the beginning or not but definitely was not doing anything intense). It's not clear if it was calorie consumption doing the job or if the eating every three hours positively affects my (screwed up) body chemistry. Probably both, as I was probably consuming very few calories while still feeling quite sated. So next week I'll be starting back on that plan, and if nothing happens I'll continue to do that while ratcheting calories down.

So, for the moment I'm not getting medicated for my thyroid. Lev and I believe I have a ton of related symptoms though - the more typical symptoms lists we read the more we gather. So I'm not done yet in this area, but I haven't decided the right course of action - to find another doctor or try to reason with my current guy to do something more. For the moment I'm not done being angry - angry at the doc, angry at lev, angry at BB and 4A for yelling TRACK TRACK TRACK. Even if they're right... you gotta at least control what you can.

So I will be tracking all my food (and was already tracking exercise - though if I return to 'lifting I won't be logging every lift but will probably add a 5-calorie cardio session or something). I won't bother posting tracking here, you can all check my tracker. Trust me, I'm good at this, I know what I'm doing, and while I don't always have perfect discipline I rarely do something drastically rong in this area. I'm not a binge eater - if anything my default when I give a crap is "eat nothing". If I overeat it's a more subtle, eating just a bit too much thing than a gorging myself kind of situation, which seems much less straightforward to identify. Anyway classically doing things that are extremely difficult to track happens and I am sure that will still continue occcasionally. But we'll see how it goes.

I guess once my anger dies down I will probably follow up on getting my shoulder dealt with (regardless of my skepticism and hatred of medicine at this point) so I can at least have more choices in exercise - even if I don't think my knees can stand for me to play ultimate or do other running intensive activities until I am back down below 230 or maybe somewhat less for example.

In other news, due in large part to this being fat thing the proverbial crap has hit the proverbial fan. Big changes are coming, I can smell it even if I don't really know quite what they are yet. If adult life has done anything it has improved my "change is coming" spidey sense. Batten down the hatches, folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Interesting site of the day: http://7bigspoons.com/obesity/stem-cells-c
hoosing-fat-cells-bone-cells/

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