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JANKENT Posts: 1,040
9/15/13 4:34 A

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"If it has a face on it I don't eat it " is the best motto I know and we all need to know what filth is in animal products be it pus , poo or blood.

MISS_VIV's Photo MISS_VIV Posts: 12,211
9/13/13 10:31 A

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OH YAH.......cow pus and poo..............Just what I need to know before breakfast. Thanks for reminding me. emoticon



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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/13/13 10:20 A

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in this group you have choices, but they are along the line of the different methods of helping you to wean off animal products, and the different ways to prepare plant based foods to make them more flavorful (part of weaning off animal products) because anybody can be a good cook when cooking with animal products, but it takes a very good cook to do it without animal products. we also keep each other informed on things like the amount of cow pus and poo is in dairy and that it's allowed

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/13/13 9:29 A

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Thank you RENNAGADE, this makes much more sense to me right now.
I guess some groups have larger subgroups what think that things like choice, moderation, doubt is considered heresy.

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MISS_VIV's Photo MISS_VIV Posts: 12,211
9/13/13 9:19 A

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As our intro to the team indicates - "If you're a vegetarian, vegan, semi-vegetarian, or just interested in a cruelty-free lifestyle, join us here! Get tips for making the transition, dining out, cooking and more."

You do NOT have to be VEGETARIAN OR VEGAN to join and participate in this team.

Discussions as this are meant to be friendly and informative - not argumentative. Everyone deserves a chance to learn.

Have a good day. emoticon

Edited by: MISS_VIV at: 9/13/2013 (09:22)

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9/13/13 9:14 A

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I myself am a vegan(plant based & whole grain) for heath reasons..I have eczema and because of that i need to go plant based and whole grain..Being a man that was raised on meat and potatoes I can tell you that i feel twice as good since i stopped eating meat.I don't eat dairy, any meat or fish, eggs and tomato's which was hard at the beginning because i loved all this..But do to my skin condition all of the above are things that bother me and break me out.Do i miss the old good hamburger hell yes I do..But black bean burgers made anyway you want does take the place of them..I get all the protein i need from other things that i eat..

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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/13/13 8:50 A

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eating the foods that are natural for humans to eat (vegan) is the only way to eat healthy. all other foods, animal flesh and dairy is the major cause of our chronic illnesses. when you consume animal products you are consuming high amounts of saturated fats and cholesterol, and when you consume lean animal products you are consuming high amounts of saturated fats and cholesterol

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/13/13 8:23 A

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Well, what I meant was it's not the only way to eat healthy.

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ENKSATSUMA's Photo ENKSATSUMA Posts: 417
9/13/13 8:10 A

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again I quote ""OMG, are there vegans who think that "all plant" eating is actually healthy?"

all plant eating is healthy. Science has proven that it is. The End.

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/13/13 5:18 A

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Yeah, and I can repeat if you don't eat meat just to be vegan - you ARE stupid.
Being vegan is not a reason to do something, being vegan is a result of what you do and believe in. See the difference?

If you think that vegan is THE ONLY healthy eating behavior and have no even a little doubt about that, well that's just shows your ignorance and close-mindedness.

As I said...people who made conscious decision they have my respect, people who WANT to be vegan cause there favorite pop artist is vegan - I disrespect them, and yes I find them stupid.

You found it appropriate to dislike my very presence in the community and more then once.
To that I have only one response - eat my socks!

Edited by: SMART4ANDREY at: 9/13/2013 (05:58)
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ENKSATSUMA's Photo ENKSATSUMA Posts: 417
9/13/13 5:03 A

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and I quote "If you're vegan cause you can't eat meat - great!
If you can't eat meat cause you're vegan - that's stupid, as stupid as McDonald's diet. Sure you'll be most healthier, but not as healthy as those who eat all sort of food in moderation."

also

"OMG, are there vegans who think that "all plant" eating is actually healthy?
wow, if that's true...
Vegans jump through hoops to replace protein (milk, meat, fish, chicken - doesn't matter), I mean really...this is the main problem.

So basically you're vegan just to be vegan, that's it...that's good, no added value, but still good if that's what you want.
Cause any other added value come right from poor knowledge."

so yeah, you're rude toward what other people have researched and found out to b healthiest for them. You call them stupid and say things that aren't true. Then you wonder why people are having "weird" reactions. Please.This is obviously not the right community for you, but there are quite a many omnivore ones out there




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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/13/13 3:35 A

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Where did I said anything otherwise? I agree that this is valid option of eating and can be healthy.
One thing I've mentioned is that I do eat meat and that just triggered some weird reaction

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ENKSATSUMA's Photo ENKSATSUMA Posts: 417
9/12/13 10:20 P

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how are they a sign of insecurity? Most comments here are well-researched and based in science. If you like, I can link you to various accredited scientific nutrition journals which show that veganism is a healthy, valid option of eating.

Perhaps you are insecure about your choice of eating meat that you need to come here and troll? Sounds like it to me. Though you shouldn't be, you are free to make choices you feel are best for you. At the same time, so are we. Maybe you need to find a group that supports your choices which will create a supportive weight loss environment for you. Channeling so much negative energy can't be healthy for you

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/12/13 6:14 P

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I'm really surprised by many of comments here.
I think that reaction like that is just a sign of insecurity.
You read them over and see that for yourself...or don't, no pressure, no pushing

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ENKSATSUMA's Photo ENKSATSUMA Posts: 417
9/12/13 5:52 P

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I've was vegan for two months (then I lived off of crackers and chicken soup due to a severe stomach virus and couldn't keep anything else down). I'm now back to veganism (occasionally vegetarian on weekends as it's easier in the UK to find food at restaurants).

Ultimately though, food shaming isn't really an option ever, no matter what a person eats. It's about science and realizing what is healthy. Meat used to be healthy, yes, before we farmed it industrially. Now it is pumped full of chemicals, antibiotics, and gmo feed. Organically and ethically raised meat is incredibly expensive. It is easier to buy local, chemical free vegetables than meat (and cheaper, a lot cheaper). And some people's reasons are humanitarian. Who cares? Science says veganism isn't damaging to a person, so why care to come to a group like this and try to food shame/incite conflict?

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9/12/13 7:28 A

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SMART4ANDREY, if you'd like to know some of the awesome health benefits of eating plant-strong, no meat, please check out the video Forks Over Knives. It distills a lot of the science behind our choices into an enjoyable format. I think it's free if you have Netflix or Amazon Instant Videos.

K8

Some people think the “plant-based whole foods diet” is extreme. Half a million a year will have their chests opened up and a vein taken from their leg and sewn onto their coronary artery. Some people would call that extreme.
- Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, “Forks Over Knives”
VGNRNR3's Photo VGNRNR3 Posts: 521
9/11/13 12:21 P

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There are many many benefits of abstaining from animal flesh and secretions. The least of which is compassion and heightened awareness. The health benefits are more plentiful than even the best stocked cornucopias.

I'd recommend checking out nutritionfacts.org, the dr. explains the topics and researches that are both familiar and foreign to the layman.

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MISS_VIV's Photo MISS_VIV Posts: 12,211
9/10/13 12:00 P

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ChoosingHealthy - don't be confused.
It is a sharing and learning experience.
Something that is be posted might apply to others that does not apply to you personally. It is by voicing opinions that others learn. I learn something everyday from the posts that are made on discussion forum boards.
We must continue learning in order to survive. emoticon



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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/10/13 3:02 A

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I feel like I put you into defensive state and I'm sorry for that.
I never said that you need meat for healthy diet, eventually it comes down to a choice.

My question was "Why condemn meat just for the sake of it?" without underlying belief system of physical condition.

Bottom line - we need to eat more fruits, veggies and grains, I think we all can say YEA to that!

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LIVINHEALTHY9's Photo LIVINHEALTHY9 SparkPoints: (179,476)
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9/9/13 9:14 P
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Me too, Choosinghealthy.

Jackie
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"No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another."
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"Most people don't change until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of changing."



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9/9/13 5:54 P

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I'm still confused why someone is on a vegetarian discussion thread continually saying how meat is needed in the diet.

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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/9/13 5:05 P

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the examples are not misleading. beef jerky does not occur naturally in nature. at best we would have some bones left from a predators kill (very risky). this is all about getting back to what people are supposed to eat naturally, not eating what requires tools. only eating what our bodies were designed to eat. we were at first just gatherers. humans would eat roots, fruits nuts, vegetation and an occasional find of eggs. and when we did develop tools, meat was still a rare treat.

Edited by: RENNAGADE at: 9/9/2013 (17:05)
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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/9/13 4:26 P

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Holy wars are fun, really...but maybe next time:)

P.S. Such examples are majorly misleading:)
P.P.S. Two warm rooms with water. 1 - 100000 kCal worth of fruits and veggies 2 - 100000 kCal worth of Beef Jerky. :)

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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/9/13 3:51 P

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humans have teeth and a digestive track that is designed for plants. i recently read an article that one of the largest health insurance companies is pushing the doctors that work for it to suggest to it's patients to change to a plant based diet. if we did an experiment with 2 people in 2 rooms. first room was full of fruit and veggies. the other room had some rodents (rabbits, mice) neither test subject had any clothes, tools or fire. who do you think would starve.

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/9/13 3:03 P

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Have I said anywhere that vegans are protein deprived?
I 100% agree that protein intake is disturbing, fat salt and sugar even more so.
Still "no meat" is in no way an undisputed idea people should lean to, moderation is the key.

Conscious choice is the king!
I really respect people like RUTHEY01, I hope I can stick to my decisions as well as she does.

Unfortunately there are people like "I'm am a vegetarian except for steak, I like steak!" these are mainly laughable and kinda mark of hollow identity.

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9/9/13 1:34 P

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@ smart4andrey - are you posting to this thread just to make waves?

I am vegan because it is what I choose for myself. I feel better and have more energy than when I ate meat. My husband still eats meat but he is very supportive of my choice. I also do not wear anything that comes from an animal because of my love for all creatures. My hair, facial and cleaning products are cruelty-free, meaning that they aren't tested on animals, and when possible those products are vegan also. I am not a fanatic about the vegan lifestyle and do not belong to the "vegan police". I don't make condemn anyone for their choices and do not appreciate it when someone does. We only have to be accountable for our own choices, so please do not publically judge those of us who eat differently than you do.

Okay, I'll get off the soapbox now. If I came on too strong, I apologize. If I upset anyone, I ask your forgiveness.

Ruth

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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/9/13 1:03 P

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smart4andrey
protein is found in all foods. look at all the giant powerful creatures that are strictly plant eaters. Americans eat 4 or 5 times the amount of protein they should. many of the chronic illnesses are protein related. beans have a greater percentage of protein per calorie then meat. no people have a protein deficiency unless they are starving. it is the meat/dairy industry with there giant bank roll that forces the overwhelming amount of false info on the public.

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/9/13 12:35 P

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Well, I'm not vegan and not even vegetarian, but I'm a huge fan of plant food.

What I'm saying is that protein is the main concert of dietitians when it comes to vegans.
Don't think there's a lot of protein in McDonald's mostly fat, salt and sugar.

If you're vegan cause you can't eat meat - great!
If you can't eat meat cause you're vegan - that's stupid, as stupid as McDonald's diet.
Sure you'll be most healthier, but not as healthy as those who eat all sort of food in moderation.

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VGNRNR3's Photo VGNRNR3 Posts: 521
9/9/13 12:06 P

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I take it SMART4ANDREY speaks from experience?

Protein is a problem in that people think humans need to consume more than they actually do.

While jumping through hoops is probably very good cardio and lower body ST, it's certainly not a practice I apply to my food.

Vegans are vegans for a variety of reasons, most of which reflect a significant amount of thought and exceptional amounts of value, morals, ethics, logic, and intelligence. Even the dumb vegans end up getting more value for their food choices than a McDonald's meal deal!

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SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/9/13 10:45 A

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OMG, are there vegans who think that "all plant" eating is actually healthy?
wow, if that's true...
Vegans jump through hoops to replace protein (milk, meat, fish, chicken - doesn't matter), I mean really...this is the main problem.

So basically you're vegan just to be vegan, that's it...that's good, no added value, but still good if that's what you want.
Cause any other added value come right from poor knowledge.

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MISS_VIV's Photo MISS_VIV Posts: 12,211
9/9/13 9:12 A

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Being a vegan is not something I can "become".. It is not on my list of things to accomplish in my life.
Nor is being a complete vegetarian.
I try to eat what my body says I need. I do really well on mostly vegetables and fruit. There are times when I NEED milk, or fish or chicken. Then that is what I eat. I rarely eat 'red' meat.. when I do.. it only makes me more hungry - it is empty, it does not give me energy or satisfy my body. If the time comes that I totally give up the fish/chicken then that would be okay, but I must feel good all over to do that. So for now I am maintaining what I consider a healthy diet (for the most part) emoticon



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RENNAGADE's Photo RENNAGADE Posts: 1,102
9/9/13 9:11 A

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wannabe is a start. for me it took years to become vegan with many years of being vegetarian, then falling off the wagon for a few years then being vegetarian again. take your time, and learn some great plant based recipes and work yourself into it slowly. it is easier to make a plant based way of life stick if you change slowly, but at a steady pace.

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9/9/13 7:36 A

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SMART4ANDREY, there are also vegans who choose "plant-strong" as a way of life due to the extreme health benefits.

K8

Some people think the “plant-based whole foods diet” is extreme. Half a million a year will have their chests opened up and a vein taken from their leg and sewn onto their coronary artery. Some people would call that extreme.
- Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, “Forks Over Knives”
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9/9/13 7:22 A

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Viv's answer is, in my opinion, very accurate. I'm a vegan - it's a lifestyle more than just a food plan. If you consider yourself a "wannabe" vegetarian, I assume that means you've been doing research and experimenting with vegetarian recipes?? Or are you just bumping the thought of doing that around in your head?

I was a vegetarian before transitioning to veganism. It takes a lot of time, research and experimenting with recipes. Just make yourself a few vegetarian meals a week and, if you want, increase the number of meals until you get into a vegetarian 'groove'.

Good luck!

I believe in myself, I am a strong woman. I will reach my goals, NOTHING & NOBODY will hold me down. I will live my life with integrity and intention. I will set a good example for my daughters and my son. I will be a woman that makes my grand children proud when they look at pictures of me long after I've left this earth.
SMART4ANDREY's Photo SMART4ANDREY Posts: 423
9/9/13 4:40 A

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Interesting, why would you WANT to be vegetarian? I understand vegans, the hole "no food with a face" thing, its all bases on beliefs. You been a wannabe means you don't have those beliefs.
So, why?

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KATIESKID's Photo KATIESKID SparkPoints: (4,388)
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9/8/13 9:54 P

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Thank you so much for all the great answers. I guess I would be considered a "Wannabe" Vegetarian...lol Oh well as long as I am losing weight and healthy. That is my goal :) Thanks again for the information.

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9/8/13 9:43 P

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A great answer Miss Viv.

Boni
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MISS_VIV's Photo MISS_VIV Posts: 12,211
9/8/13 8:58 P

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Veganism is a strict form of vegetarianism, consisting of abstention from the consumption or use of all animal products, including eggs and dairy products, as well as articles made of bone, leather, feathers, mother of pearl or other materials of animal origin. Some vegans also avoid products that have been tested on animals or contacted animal products, and condemn activities that exploit animals, such as zoos and circuses.

A vegetarian diet excludes the flesh of animals, even fish and poultry. A vegan diet excludes anything derived from an animal, including milk, cheese, eggs, and sometimes honey. People calling themselves vegan try to avoid animal products in their daily life, such as leather, wool or silk



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9/8/13 8:58 P

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Not a stupid question at all! "Vegetarian" used to be what vegan is now - plant-based, no animals or animal products. Back then there were different variations: for instance, ovo-lacto vegetarian was a person who didn't eat animals, but ate eggs & dairy. Nowadays, when you say vegetarian, it usually means that - a person who doesn't eat animals, but eats eggs & dairy.

A vegan doesn't eat animals or animal products (no eggs or dairy). There can be healthy vegans - who eat plant-strong and as unprocessed as possible, and unhealthy vegans who eat processed foods and may not eat a single vegetable. And then there's the whole spectrum inbetween the two.

K8

Some people think the “plant-based whole foods diet” is extreme. Half a million a year will have their chests opened up and a vein taken from their leg and sewn onto their coronary artery. Some people would call that extreme.
- Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, “Forks Over Knives”
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9/8/13 8:54 P

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A vegan doesn't eat anything animal based. A vegetarian can eat animal products like eggs, milk, cheese & ice cream.

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9/8/13 8:49 P

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Hi there :) I hope you don't mind me asking probably a very stupid question to all of you, but what is the difference between a Vegan and a Vegetarian??

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