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TOPIC:   Forks over Knives 


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KJAZZINGILBERT
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8/19/12 11:42 A

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Nothing wrong with a difference of opinions, especially when there is so much conflicting information out there.
For me there is no choice. I eat a diet that I can feel good about both physically and ethically.
I listen to my body instead of listening to all the experts out there.
I mean have they EVER agreed? From vegan to paleo and everything in between, they all claim they have the answer to how best to eat.
Vegan rocks my world, that's all I can say.
emoticon

This time it's forever.


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IMVEGAN
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8/18/12 2:06 P

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Oh well, That is your opinion. Mine is different.


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KAPELAKIN
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8/17/12 11:21 P

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She never says that the diet is necessarily bad for you. In fact, she gives the good Doctors kudos for trying to heal their patients with good nutrition and lifestyle changes, instead of a pill, something that is vanishingly rare in the age of pharmacology.

It's sad that you say she's not qualified to critique them, though. If she is not qualified, with the obviously copious hours she's spent studying their referenced science, then how on earth can anyone make an informed decision? For every McDougall, there is another Doctor or PhD telling us to eat something else. We all need to take what we hear with a dose of skepticism and try to think for ourselves a bit, rather than fall into the trap of assuming that "Doctor knows best." I have a M.S. degree myself, and took classes focusing on critiquing scientific literature. Everything that she points out makes absolute sense to me. The documentary had to be somewhat sensational, and gloss over the geek part to get enough audience. Perhaps the Doctors interviewed would have perfectly good and reasonable rebuttals to her critique, but the way the information is presented in FoK is at best, slanted towards a certain POV.

Do not mistake ideology for science. That is my point.

Voluntary Discomfort is the secret cornerstone of strength. We build our whole lives around increasing comfort and avoiding discomfort, and yet by doing so we are drinking a can of Weakness Tonic with every morning’s breakfast. ~Mr. Money Mustache
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IMVEGAN
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8/14/12 6:29 P

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Good for you Rennagade! I am happy to hear it is working for you too.


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RENNAGADE
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8/14/12 6:00 P

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i guess im also a FOK sap. my blood pressure med has been cut in half and my doctor said they shold be reduced again soon.


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IMVEGAN
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8/14/12 10:03 A

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The woman who wrote the long article is undoubtedly smart (she tells us how well she did in elementary, high school, and college where she has a degree in English) but she is not qualified to criticize Dr. Campbell, Dr. Esselstyn or any of the other highly qualified Drs who have peer reviewed studies and research backing up their health claims. She is a woman who likes to eat her fat and has a forum on a web page. There are many of those folks around. I prefer to listen to the folks at Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and Cornell University, and the largest study done in the history of man on nutrition: The China Study.

But hey, If that is what you choose to believe, more power to you.

Edited by: IMVEGAN at: 8/14/2012 (10:05)

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KAPELAKIN
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8/13/12 11:53 P

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I strongly encourage anyone who will listen to read this blog about Forks over Knives. She has also done months of work dissecting The China Study. This link is *not* crashing your computer, it is just a huge page with lots of embedded graphics.

rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knive
s-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-cr
itique/


Voluntary Discomfort is the secret cornerstone of strength. We build our whole lives around increasing comfort and avoiding discomfort, and yet by doing so we are drinking a can of Weakness Tonic with every morning’s breakfast. ~Mr. Money Mustache
5K PR: 23:40
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HM PR: 1:59:37
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IMVEGAN
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7/5/12 11:41 P

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Here is a video by Jeff Novick explaining why any oil is bad for you.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfBKauKVi4M


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RENNAGADE
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7/5/12 5:37 P

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EVOO is nothing more than 100% pure fat. now it is true that there is a health benefit to olive oil, but the benefit only exists while it is still attached to the olive. we have all been sold a false bill of goods, when we were taught that if you remove the nutrition and fiber from a food and only consume the 100% pure fat that it's good for you. it's only use is to clog your arteries. go to you tube and search for no oil or oil is bad and i'm sure you'll find one of the doctors from forks over knives yelling at an audience "no oil not even olive oil" and he explains why. you will also find dozens of videos by other people on why all oil is bad. remember vegetable oil does not occur naturally in nature.


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2BDYNAMIC
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7/5/12 5:21 P

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We use EVOO in various things ............. I have always read about the health benefits ............ so I don't worry about it .................... Enjoying the journey ................ emoticon

~Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their echoes are truly endless." .... Mother Teresa

~ What I do today shapes my tomorrow. ~I will seize the day~

~To gain friends is to first become a friend~


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RENNAGADE
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7/5/12 4:29 P

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it's hard to stick to the diet and still go out to eat once in a while, just because of the oil used. even when we cook, some things need a few drops of oil in the pan so they don't stick and we have that green ceramic pan. but we try to have no oil. we take a vegan multi vitamin twice a day and my wife takes a b12 pill. as for the food part itself, my wife and i have been vegetarian on and off for 30 years and the last 58 years we were 85% vegetarian so it was easier for us then it would be for somebody just jumping right in. it's not like i was eating a 16 ounce steak one day and gone vegetarian the next day.


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CHRISTOPOD
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7/5/12 2:51 P

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That is exactly what I am after. So, are you sticking to the engine 2 diet and if so, how are you doing on it? I have wondered about B12 and so on. What have you found so far?

Have you hugged your Atari today?


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RENNAGADE
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7/5/12 1:52 P

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the fake meats are supposed to be off limits. the engine 2 diet cookbook (by the son of one of the doctors from forks over knives) and the main doctor / cookbooks are by Mcdougall. he's the doctor that started it all. he say's that as far as health is concerned, a fake meat is just as bad as real meat.

www.fatfreevegan.com/mwl/index.shtml
drmcdougall.com/free_5a.html


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IMVEGAN
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7/5/12 11:58 A

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There are many cookbooks out there that have vegan meals that children love. Go to your local library and look in the cookbook section. Happy Herbivore is a cookbook that has many kid friendly recipes and they are marked as such.

When you are changing your children's diets remember to tell them why you are making the change. Tell them that you thought you were eating healthy before but you know that you were not giving them enough brain food. Talk about how the veggies, fruits, whole grains and beans are really good for them. Let them help to choose the veggies and other foods to make for meals. Then let them help to prepare the food. When they are invested in the process they will eat the food. They may not like the whole grain pastas and breads at first because the texture is different. You can mix whole grain and white pasta in the same meal at first and gently help them change.

Google vegan kids recipes and you will find many blogs. I also like fatfreevegan.com. She cooks for her daughter and husband and tells the reader what recipes her daughter liked and did not.


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CHRISTOPOD
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7/4/12 11:37 P

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Well, I totally agree with all of you. With some kind of will power that I am lacking, I hope to quit eating meat. I have a family of 4 and we crave it. After seeing the documentary forks over knives, I truly believe that most of our health problems can be eliminated simply by removing animal protein. The search for good food that will interest my kids and also help me lose weight begins.

Have you hugged your Atari today?


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2BDYNAMIC
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7/4/12 5:04 P

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JULESRULES78 ......... that was so well spoken. ....... Lots of good "Food for Thought" ........... no pun intended .........
But you are right re the restaurants .......... They care about NUMBERS period .... How much cashola is in that cash register end of day. They are all business. Even Paula Deen when asked (I heard her twice) ....... "Isn't this cake or blah blah pretty unhealthy?" and she answered in her southern drawl that made her rich ........... "Honey, I am not your nurse." ............ emoticon ............

~Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their echoes are truly endless." .... Mother Teresa

~ What I do today shapes my tomorrow. ~I will seize the day~

~To gain friends is to first become a friend~


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STUFFNEARTABOR
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7/3/12 7:37 P

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Hi, I used to travel a LOT for business & found that I could always find food to eat - even in a steakhouse. Sometimes it was just a baked potato & a salad, but I could always find food to eat. On an airplane, it is wonderful to require a vegan meal & then you get beautiful fresh fruit & tasty veg, usually served with some kind of grain dish while everybody else is stuck with dry chicken wrapped in plastic cheese and a dried out roll!! Just ask your servers - they are always able to help, unless you go to some chain that pre-prepares everything like Applebee's and all they do is heat it up & serve.

Eva - Portland, Oregon USA


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JULESRULES78
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7/3/12 7:13 P

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CHRISTOPOD,

So glad to hear that you bought this book! Seriously, it has changed the lives of my husband and me. I completely agree with you that it is embedded in our culture, and until a shift happens, it is hard to think and eat in other ways that aren't considered "normal." I'm glad to see that you are ready to give it a shot. Good luck and if you need anything just holler.

As far as substitute products, when I use them I go for daiya "cheese" and gardein products, and tofurky products which are vegan. These are the best I have available here, but I do not use them often. Here is something weird I happened upon. I had a vegetarian times cookbook from way back when that has a veggie fajita recipe in it. You cut strip of eggplant, zucchini, onions and pepper and marinate it. So, I am thinking, if you marinate it in what you usually marinate a steak in you would end up with something comparable. Eggplant once marinated takes on the chewy texture of meat. Just a thought.


GIANT-STEPS,

I totally agree with you that branching out is the way to go. There are many more options. emoticon


Edited by: JULESRULES78 at: 7/3/2012 (19:21)
Julie
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GIANT-STEPS
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7/3/12 5:47 P

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If you think fake meats today are bad you should have tasted the ones when I became a vegetarian in Spring of 1980. They were awful! Morningstar Farms makes some good fake meats but they aren't vegan. Grillers Prime tastes enough like ground beef that it can be convincing in a burger with condiments. Chik patties taste surprisingly like chicken.
I have to admit that I gave up on veganism. I still see it as the ideal but too difficult. I consider myself lacto-ovo vegetarian but I do avoid dairy since I think it is the most unhealthy thing in our diet. If there is a smidge of butter or a sprinkle of cheese on something I'll eat it. I see fake meats as an occasional thing. When we are grilling I can have a burger along with everyone else. There are few vegetarian foods in American cuisine.
Eating out is a challenge. If you branch out to ethnic foods your choices are better. Indian, Mexican, Italian, and Thai all have multiple vegetarian options.




CHRISTOPOD
Posts: 14
7/3/12 4:23 P

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I just bought the book, "Eating Animals". I have seen movies such as Food Inc. and Food Matters, but I do look forward to reading this. I think in the USA, we just eat the way we grew up. This will be like re-learning how to eat properly. Thank you for the help too!

Have you hugged your Atari today?


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JULESRULES78
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7/3/12 2:33 P

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Here's one of my favorites:

www.theppk.com/

IMVEGAN,

Thank you for sharing the blog post. It just shows that my lack of experience has limited my options. I had no idea that restaurants would make these kind of accommodations!

Edited by: JULESRULES78 at: 7/3/2012 (14:40)
Julie
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IMVEGAN
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7/3/12 2:28 P

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You don't ever have to eat meat substitutes if you don't like them. We hardly ever have them at my house. We eat recipes that include legumes, veggies, whole grains and we eat a ton of fruit. When you are just beginning a lifestyle change you need to go to the library and find cookbooks that are vegan so you can re-learn how to cook. It takes everyone a while to get to the point where they are eating a healthy diet. Many vegans live on pasta. Don't do it! Eat healthy or this lifestyle won't do you any good at all. For eating out look at Happy Cow. com. You will be able to find vegan friendly restaurants near where you live or travel. Salads get old after a while and you will want to eat at places that have special meals just for you. Where do you live in Texas? I know that Austin has many vegan places to eat.

Here is a blog from my favorite vegan cookbook author about eating out.

happyherbivore.com/2012/06/vegan-anywhere/



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JULESRULES78
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7/3/12 2:25 P

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CHRISTOPOD,

You asked "how does a person who eats out all of the time...with family...go vegan?" The answer is you stop eating out all of the time and find other ways to entertain yourself and your family that do not involve and revolve around foods that are not good for you. Remember that when you go out to eat, you are a consumer. The job of the restaurant is to make you come back for more. They do not care about your health. They do not care about your happiness. They are likely to buy low quality food because they can get it "on the cheap" and make a profit.

I think that many on our society miss out on life because they let food become the focus. It distracts us from living life and truly enjoying the company around us. Many turn to food to fill voids that are not being met elsewhere.

"Going Vegan" is not easy, especially since your are likely to face many who do not understand or appreciate your choice. It does take a commitment and resolve. I suggest reading "Eating Animals" to give yourself other reasons for becoming vegan besides health reasons. To me, eating Vegan is eating consciously--knowing what your food is (and what is in it), knowing where it comes from, and knowing why you are eating it.

The best way to "go Vegan" is to eat more whole foods. Beans and broccoli have tons of lean protein. Fruits and veggies are awesome. The more you eat this way, the more your body craves these foods. Your taste buds change to like these foods, and processed, salty foods become unpalatable. I suggest investing in some good cookbooks (Veganomicon is awesome) and reading up more on the subject (PCRM has some great information). Cooking is essential for a Vegan family. It is part of the whole package. It shows you care about yourself and your loved ones enough to impact their health.

Edited by: JULESRULES78 at: 7/3/2012 (14:27)
Julie
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RUTHEY01
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7/3/12 2:03 P

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I am vegan and my husband is a carnivore. When we go out to eat, we choose a restaurant with a good salad bar that has chopped or sliced veggies, fresh fruit and several types of beans - garbanzo, kidney, black - as well as salad. For salad dressing I choose a balsamic vinaigrette or oil and vinegar.
Hope this helps.

Ruth

"Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy."


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CHRISTOPOD
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7/3/12 1:56 P

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I am new to this. I watched the video Forks over Knives which is a whole vegetable diet. My problem is that I really want that lifestyle without meat, dairy, and oil, but I eat meat as a sport in Texas. I have tried meat substitutes and hate all of them. So, that means I would have to just figure out other things to eat and forget meat. What do you recommend for me? So, how does a person who eats out all the time....with family....go vegan? My wife wants to as well.

Have you hugged your Atari today?


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