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R2C2NU's Photo R2C2NU Posts: 212
5/3/12 9:35 P

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I met a couple several years ago who were vegetarians except for one deer. Every year they filled the freezer with venison from a deer they took with bow and arrow. They believe you should always have something in your diet that had a chance to get away. When I think of them it adds a smile to my day.

BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (45,878)
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4/28/12 8:22 P

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Your food standards authority - I don't know where you live, I'm in Australia and it's the FSANZ - has a list of all additives, usually grouped by what they do, in which case all the colourings are together by their code numbers. So you can just see what they are and do a bit of digging. Anyway, to summarise the common reds:
120 - cochineal (insects)
122 - azorubine (artificial)
123 - amaranth (plant)
124 - ponceau 4R (artificial)
127 - erythrosine (artificial)
129 - allura red AC (artificial)
Beet and elderberry extracts are also used to provide red colouring.

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VEGFROG SparkPoints: (10,138)
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4/28/12 8:00 P

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..... speaking of not knowing the origins of some ingredients all the time...

while I try to avoid most "junk", I sometimes give in to the urge and ingest
"questionable" stuff. like m & m's, red vines, and the like. I understand
Starbucks recently stopped using the dye made from crushed red bugs
( cochineal) - but does anyone have a clue about the red dyes in this
kind of stuff??? (Maybe I shouldn't have asked?????)

Thank you!

emoticon

KIMBAARTIST's Photo KIMBAARTIST SparkPoints: (5,339)
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4/26/12 7:36 A

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Just found this post while browsing around the forums and had to laugh. Over the years I have been a pescatarian, a vegetarian, a vegan and actually ate meat for a short while. I do understand the need for moral vegans to point out the facts of what it means to be truly vegan--I lived with that mindset for quite a while and it is really more about trying to get people to understand the commitment we make as vegans (that we don't use ANY animal products) and not so much about "I am morally better than you". It is hard to be a vegan! There are animal byproducts in EVERYTHING! As an artist it was so hard to find cruelty free paints and brushes etc., something I never thought about before becoming vegan.
I am now eating eggs and cheese but still try my very best to live as cruelty free as possible. I buy cage free/free range eggs etc. still use no leather or soaps with animal byproducts in them...and I truly admire and applaud all of the people who are moral vegans, I might go back to living that lifestyle again--who knows...but I also applaud the guy who gives up meat for a week and the lady who eats fish instead of red meat whenever possible (it ALL makes a difference!)
As someone who loves animals it truly breaks my heart to see what we do to them in this world. Anyway I guess I got off the point here lol... I just wanted to say that in my opinion it isn't OK to tell everyone you are a vegan when you aren't. In my mind that is akin to telling people you are a born again christian while you are sleeping with your neighbors wife :P
I think if you are a dietary vegan--be proud of it and tell people who you are, the same goes for lacto/ovo veggies and ethical vegans, but be honest--with yourself and others. We just need to do the best we can in our lives.
Hope I didn't ramble too much in my first post here on this forum!

The first rule of Zombieland: Cardio.
When the zombie outbreak first hit, the first to go, for obvious reasons... were the fatties.


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SUGARMAMA4HIM's Photo SUGARMAMA4HIM Posts: 56
4/25/12 10:26 P

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I've heard that Bob Harper and Alicia Silverstone both eat cheese pizza occasionally and call themselves vegan.

Dr. John McDougall and President Clinton both have a slice of turkey at Thanksgiving.

Have any of you ever had wine? Most wine isn't vegan.

Because of the judgment and anger, I'm leaving this team and suggest that other people treat others with kindness and respect.

It's so sad that some of you are so mean to each other. So sad, that as you try to talk about being kind to animals (which we should do anyways) you think that it's okay to be so hateful to people. And as a Christian, I wanted to live a kinder lifestyle.

This is not kind! emoticon

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FROUX2ZJ SparkPoints: (44)
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4/25/12 7:23 P

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I eat vegan food while I wear leather shoes. So freaking sue me for not using the right title. WHO CARES????? This is about getting healthy and losing weight, not about ethics for me.

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TOFUTONI's Photo TOFUTONI Posts: 29
4/15/12 9:22 P

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I never claimed to be a vegan because I am not. I try to follow a vegetarian diet.I will also eat fish so I guess I am a pescatarian. I believe we should tell the truth and not mislead people who follow us, especially a Team leader as that person is.

I am believing that you are as your name states a Holistic Detoxer and I think that is great. I am believing that is true. However in the other case the other person says she is 100% Vegan and that person is not.

And did you read why I made the post. It is quite simple. Please reread the entire thread.


Edited by: TOFUTONI at: 4/15/2012 (21:26)
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HOLISTICDETOXER's Photo HOLISTICDETOXER SparkPoints: (32,314)
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4/15/12 5:04 P

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I can't help but wonder why someone who eats eggs, milk and/or butter every day would care so much about whether or not someone else is a dietary vegan or an ethical vegan.

Stats: Female, 5'4", 28 years old.

Goal: From 152 (07/24/2011) to 125 by December, 2011. DONE! December 4th weighed in at 124. In 2012 I've been maintaining around 122, which is a thirty pound loss. My BMI has gone from 26.1 to 20.9 since following the Spark plan!

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SAMTHEMAN60's Photo SAMTHEMAN60 Posts: 39
4/15/12 4:04 P

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emoticon Tofutoni for having principles. That person should not be lying about her veganism, is that a word? That person is supposed to be an example as a Spark team leader. I never knew there were differences in eating as a vegan opposed to being a vegan. I think this thread has a valid point to it. Don't we want people to know what is a vegan and what is not?

IMVEGAN's Photo IMVEGAN Posts: 2,896
4/15/12 3:48 P

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I think it is time to close this topic out for further posts. It is getting unfriendly. How is that done team leaders?

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TOFUTONI's Photo TOFUTONI Posts: 29
4/15/12 3:43 P

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HOLISTICDETOXER the whole point of my post was to educate. This is about a Spark team leader that preaches to her teams and not leads her teams. She rams down our throats how perfect she is and that we need to be as vigilant as she is. She tells us she is 100% organic vegan. She is not saying she eats as a vegan but that she is 100% vegan and she is not. You are not 100% vegan if you are going out of your way to buy a new car with leather car seats. I want to make sure that someone who is a newbie that thinks it is perfectly OK for a 100% vegan to buy or use leather products. IT IS NOT!

Saying eating like one is one thing but that is not what she preaches. I can't tolerate people that mislead people and to be a Spark leader to boot is just so wrong. she needs to start telling her team the truth.

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IMVEGAN's Photo IMVEGAN Posts: 2,896
4/15/12 2:20 P

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Holisticdetoxer- Now now now (said in a motherly voice) Let's stop the sarcastic comments please and remain kind with each other. If you would have read everyone's comments here you would have discovered that we were having a conversation with kindness at it's heart and mutual understanding as its intent.

Edited by: IMVEGAN at: 4/15/2012 (14:20)
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HOLISTICDETOXER's Photo HOLISTICDETOXER SparkPoints: (32,314)
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4/15/12 1:07 P

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Not to point out the obvious, but you didn't seem to read your own post very well. Your definitions, taken from Wikipedia, clearly identify that there are three types of veganism, including "dietary veganism" which is the rejection of all animal products from one's diet only. But it's nice that you tried to read that Wikipedia page- the more practice you get reading complicated documents, the better you'll get!

Stats: Female, 5'4", 28 years old.

Goal: From 152 (07/24/2011) to 125 by December, 2011. DONE! December 4th weighed in at 124. In 2012 I've been maintaining around 122, which is a thirty pound loss. My BMI has gone from 26.1 to 20.9 since following the Spark plan!

* * I'm looking for Spark Friends - add me! * *


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GUNNADOITNOW's Photo GUNNADOITNOW Posts: 550
4/4/12 6:23 P

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well said jengogirl.

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JENGOGIRL SparkPoints: (97)
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4/4/12 12:44 P

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I think we need to remember to be kind and accepting to everyone no matter where they are on the vegan road. I have been an ethical vegan (donít use products tested on animals, donít wear clothes or buy products that come from animals) for 23 years. While it only took me a year to get to there sometimes it takes people longer. What is more important, that they are moving toward being vegan at a pace that works for them or being told they arenít vegan enough so they give up? For every meal that does not contain an animal, lives are saved. Isnít that what we all strive for, no more suffering? Letís start with some love for our fellow humans as well. emoticon

GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
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4/3/12 5:11 P

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Since Vegan is a lifestyle some people use the term "pure vegetarian" to describe someone who eats no animal products but still uses them.

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4/3/12 8:34 A

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"Sarcastic Vegan Wannabe"

That's me!!!! Not everyone recognizes this! emoticon

Lauren =^..^=
BONIDALE's Photo BONIDALE SparkPoints: (24,051)
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4/3/12 8:10 A

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Good post R2C2NU! emoticon

Boni
Co-Leader Vegan Fitness and Nutrition

"There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going." Anon
"Finishing is winning."
"Treat everone you meet as if they have a sign around their neck, "Make me feel important."


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R2C2NU's Photo R2C2NU Posts: 212
4/3/12 12:44 A

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I gathered the labels found in the previous posts and tried to include as many as possible. I have no idea who said what. It's an opportunity to step back and see some humor the way we do what we do. If I left anybody's descriptor out I apologies, I used as many as I could but I couldn't work all of them in. I really wanted to include the 'Vegan with a log in his eye" but it didn't quite fit. If someone feels shamed please send me a private message and let me know how that happened. My intention is to provide an opportunity for people smile and lighten up. It's better for the digestive process.
peace
from the inside out

CECHANDLER's Photo CECHANDLER Posts: 499
4/3/12 12:22 A

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Honestly, I don't think a "shame game" is going to help anyone be 'more vegan', and calling someone out on the forum is just plain rude. Maybe other people don't know who you're talking about, but you can bet your arse the person who you're ripping on does! Contact the person directly, and if you're too afraid to do that, then leave well enough alone or post in a more democratic manner.


I know now that I know nothing.


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R2C2NU's Photo R2C2NU Posts: 212
4/3/12 12:03 A

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If you want to be a total Vegan you will have to be more strict with your food choices. You will have to be more aware of the shoes you buy, the car you drive, the cloths you wear as well as the food you do eat. Deciding to be a Total Vegan is commendable but rather broad. You can read some of the posts below and get an idea of some of the available options, or sub sets. You can be a 100% Vegan with no animal products or by by products. Ethical Vegans and Dietary Vegans are both Vegans but with different motivations. Plant based diet people are just like Vegans only they don't box themselves in with the 'Vegan' label. We have Moral Vegans so I assume we also have Immoral Vegans. There are both Judgmental and non Judgmental Vegans, Angry Vegans, and unkind Vegans wearing leather products, You can find Inconsistent Vegans, Crappy Vegans, Hypocritical Vegans, and my personal favorite, the Sarcastic Vegan Wannabe. You may want to consider the Raw Organic Vegans if you want to crank it up a notch. They use percentages to distinguish one type from another. A Raw Organic Vegan who gets the right blend of percentages between 80% and100% would be considered a High Raw Vegan. I've heard some of them use Hemp Seeds but I don't believe that has anything to do with the title.
So best of luck on your journey to becoming a Total Vegan. Choose to do good things to your body, your fellow earth dwellers, and the environment, don't be too hard on yourself and have fun on your journey.
peace


Edited by: R2C2NU at: 4/3/2012 (00:07)
MENESTRELLO's Photo MENESTRELLO Posts: 248
4/2/12 11:10 P

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I still have some animal products, such as a leather couch, but I am vegan. Veganism is a mindset, but it does not mean that a person should dump all of their existing belongings -- that would not only be wasteful, but disrespectful to the animal that gave its life for what was made. Simply stating that it's wrong to have such products is ridiculous. Making careful choices about the future is relevant, but that is an important difference.

A person can be on a vegan diet, but that does not mean the person is vegan. As already stated, a person cannot necessarily or may not want to make all changes. Educate others -- that is the way to cause change.

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4/2/12 10:01 P

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I'm trying to become a total vegan. I definitely do not eat meat, chicken, or fish. Sometimes I do not read the labels and get some milk products that are in some foods (very little). I don't beat myself up because I'm doing the best I can at times. I'm hard enough on myself on other issues. I think every little bit helps.

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GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
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4/2/12 2:17 P

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I went through something like this. I went to a vegetarian lunch meeting. Everyone was happy to see a new member, especially the women since there were so few men in the group. When they learned I was lacto-ovo they lost their enthusiasm but were still polite. My non-vegetarian wife (now ex-) who loved to embarrass me volunteered that sometimes while traveling I have a don't-ask-don't-tell rule about food where I don't ask about if, for example, beans or pie crusts have lard or rice has chicken stock if I really don't want to know. This prompted a "more vegan than thou" contest between members about who gave wait people the hardest time about if menu items were strictly vegan.
I kept going and later they lightened up. After a few years they even enthusiastically welcomed partial vegetarians and even curious folks who just wanted to try a vegetarian meal. The judgmental vegans all either left or lightened up.

BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (45,878)
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4/1/12 10:43 P

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If I'm going to be vegan, I can't see much point in being a crappy one. A hypocritical one. An inconsistent one. That's just my view. I strive to be as vegan as possible. Of course I wouldn't intentionally buy leather. I've been known to study the labels on jeans to try to work out what they're made of.
Anyway the issue to me seems to revolve around whether you see vegan or vegetarian as just relating to diet or as having a broader lifestyle connotation. I go for the latter and that's what I'm comfortable with.
all the best,
Alan

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TOFUTONI's Photo TOFUTONI Posts: 29
4/1/12 9:18 P

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I too couldn't be happier that people are eating healthier and plant based at that. Hopefully soon most will be cognizant of a cruelty free lifestyle and one that is friendlier to the planet.

The reason I posted this post was for educational purposes. The person that I was referring to is a team leader, not on this team, and is also a Spark Motivator. She preaches that she is a 100% vegan and is not that kind with her responses to others if they are not commited like she thinks she is or feels they need to be. Yes we are supposed to encourage one another but this person tears more people down than builds up. It is her way or you are made to feel like crap because you don't measure up to her standards.

I just want to make sure the people they are following and thinking is the expert, using them as a role model truly is a role model. If someone told me it was ok to buy or wear leather and also say I was 100% vegan and I was a new and learning vegan I would believe them it was ok. You may be eating as a vegan but you still are putting money in the hands of people that are exploiting animals. Your dollars are your voice and your voice is telling them it is perfectly fine to continue doing it if you are buying their product.

I am sorry, IT IS NOT OK to use leather products and say you are vegan. It is a lie and it is misleading people. I don't want to name that person to call them out on the carpet but I do want my fellow team mates and Spark People to know what a vegan is.

This is something I can not just turn my head and look the other way on. That would be an injustice to Spark People.

Edited by: TOFUTONI at: 4/1/2012 (21:58)
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CASEYTALK's Photo CASEYTALK Posts: 796
4/1/12 8:53 P

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At the top of this team's page is this notice:

"If you're a vegetarian, vegan, semi-vegetarian, or just interested in a cruelty-free lifestyle, join us here! Get tips for making the transition, dining out, cooking and more."

I admire vegans who do everything in their power to live cruelty-free lives. I also admire all the others on this team who have made the decision to increase eating plant-based foods for their health and well-being. Perhaps if the original poster had been making an informative posting of "This is strict veganism, this is dietary veganism, this is vegetarianism. . ." and had been descriptive, I think the post would have been very well received by everyone. For my part, I felt the posting was almost accusatory, which made it much more difficult for me to read with an open mind. I know that's MY failing, but it's hard for me to absorb and embrace what someone tells me in an accusatory tone.

Again, the original poster is to be admired for her commitment to being cruelty-free and I hope that others are better than I at getting around the tone to listen to the message.

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LARRI2010's Photo LARRI2010 SparkPoints: (61,385)
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4/1/12 6:28 P

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Wow. I exploit animals by keeping one as a pet. But then, I don't identify myself as vegan...or even a vegetarian. As with a few others who posted in this thread, I am choosing a more plant-based diet for the health benefits, not for any moral principals.

Lauren =^..^=
FUTUREYUPPIE's Photo FUTUREYUPPIE Posts: 566
4/1/12 5:42 P

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Judgemental much? Shouldn't the group be welcoming in order to encourage people to try to adopt a vegan lifestyle? Acting all elitist is petty.

With accomplishment comes satisfaction that cannot be achieved any other way. - Wayne Rich

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VEGFAERY's Photo VEGFAERY Posts: 3,663
4/1/12 5:28 P

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I don't care for labels either, except lesbian, I wear that one loud and proud because for many years I was afraid to. I follow a plant based diet, period. It's hard to be 100% anything and rather than get nailed about an ingredient I accidentally ingested, I'd rather be label free.

Vibeke ~ Health nut, green mama, plant eater, raw food enthusiast, reformed wino and coffee addict, environmentalist, compulsive recipe collector and lover of tattoos.

vibekevale.com/
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PETALIA's Photo PETALIA SparkPoints: (81,614)
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4/1/12 3:38 P

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Hear, hear IMVEGAN.

IMVEGAN's Photo IMVEGAN Posts: 2,896
4/1/12 3:33 P

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I don't worry about labels anymore. People can call themselves anything that they want. I think that when we get caught up in labels we begin looking for the sliver in someone else's eye when we have a log in our own.

I was a member of a strict vegan forum before joining spark. They were all so judgemental and in to labels and who was actually what. When I was a new plant-based eater, I asked a question of the group and was torn a new a$$H$le because I was accused of not being vegan enough. I quit that group and joined this one because I believe we are all on a journey, doing the best we can.

I am happy that people are eating more plant-based because that saves animal's lives and it is saving their life too. I take them as they are. Some more plant perfect than others. Hopefully all are welcome here on this forum.



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PETALIA's Photo PETALIA SparkPoints: (81,614)
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4/1/12 3:31 P

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If the discussion is about diet, I kinda like the expression, 'plant-based' or '100% plant-based' while keeping in mind that, to me, veganism encompasses a whole lot more than eating.

KESTES200's Photo KESTES200 SparkPoints: (564)
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4/1/12 3:19 P

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Unless you call yourself a vegan for purely moral reasons, in which case you do not consume, eat, buy or use any animal products, it might be better to tell people that you have chosen a plant based diet and leave out the title of "vegan". This should avoid confusion and comparison with strict vegans.

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SAMTHEMAN60's Photo SAMTHEMAN60 Posts: 39
4/1/12 2:47 P

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A vegan does not buy a new car with leather seats which evidently is the reason the writer of this thread started this post. I think that was their intent and it wasn't about leather or wool clothes. I would say that is a blatant slap in the face for all those that are real vegans. Vegans hold themselves and society to a higher standard.

This list is pretty helpful about what vegans will not eat or buy.
www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-livin
g/
animal-ingredient-guide.aspx


I agree with Travelnista any way we can improve our diets is good but lying about what we stand for as in this case is not. Vegans do not buy leather products.

R2C2NU's Photo R2C2NU Posts: 212
4/1/12 2:08 P

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Where can I get a check list that will help me clarify where I belong on this Vegetarian, Vegan continuum so I don't inadvertently identify myself as something I'm not? It has never been a concern of mine but I don't want to claim to be on the same level as someone who gave up their couch to achieve that status. I'm sure someone has put together such a list.
I go out of my way to avoid doing harm to other living beings but to be truthful I'm only into this for the nutritional benefits so, at this point, my shoes aren't a factor.

AJC_80's Photo AJC_80 Posts: 1,571
4/1/12 12:18 P

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I agree, well said Kestes200.

Amanda

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TRAVELNISTA's Photo TRAVELNISTA SparkPoints: (181,933)
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4/1/12 12:00 P

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emoticon read. emoticon for the clarification between being Vegetarian and being Vegan. I had once asked my niece years ago when she 1st became Vegetarian how she could be so adamant about being Vegetarian yet continued to wear her leather jacket and leather shoes. She said she would never eat anything with a face. I had difficulty in understanding why she would not eat anything that had chicken broth in it opposed to vegetable broth. At that time I couldn't understand the big deal.

As far as the leather jacket and shoes, she said she was not ready to give those up and was making an exception for that but everything else she is Vegetarian. I plan on showing this info to her just in case I made her feel bad about her decision to keep buying and wearing leather. I wasn't trying to make her feel bad but trying to understand.

Now if she said she was Vegan I'd be all over her. emoticon No only kidding but it would cause another discussion.

It also makes me understand why when a cousin of mine gave away her leather couch and chairs when it was no more than 2 years old. I was dumbfounded because it was a beautiful and expensive set. She replaced it with a fabric set. Now after reading those articles I see she really stuck by her guns on being a Vegan.

I personally am following a Vegetarian lifestyle at the moment but I will not call myself a Vegetarian. Why, don't gasp on me here, but I am not ready to say I will never eat a steak, fish, or sushi/sashimi again. I haven't eaten anything with a face in quite a while but that still doesn't make me a Vegetarian.

In my Raw world we have 100% Raw and we have High Raw which is eating 80% or higher Raw. So in the Vegetarian world I guess I am a High Vegetarian.

For those that follow a Vegan lifestyle but continue to buy leather or wool products than I guess they are not 100% Vegan but High Vegan.

Whatever per centage or degree you choose to follow of Vegetarianism or Veganism your body will reap the benefits accordingly. You have to do what is best for you and your conscious.

Edited by: TRAVELNISTA at: 4/1/2012 (12:05)

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BONIDALE's Photo BONIDALE SparkPoints: (24,051)
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4/1/12 11:09 A

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Well said, Kestes200.

Boni
Co-Leader Vegan Fitness and Nutrition

"There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going." Anon
"Finishing is winning."
"Treat everone you meet as if they have a sign around their neck, "Make me feel important."


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KESTES200's Photo KESTES200 SparkPoints: (564)
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4/1/12 9:13 A

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While I respect this sentiment wholeheartedly please keep in mind the advice of nationally recognized vegan author and speaker, Colleen Patrick Goudreau. She often says, "Just because you can't do everything, doesn't mean that you should nothing. Do SOMETHING.". No one is perfect.

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GUNNADOITNOW's Photo GUNNADOITNOW Posts: 550
4/1/12 3:34 A

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very interesting. thankyou

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3/31/12 11:00 P

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I agree with you 100%. Wearing leather and other animal products
is the same as eating meat. Either way - one is consuming animal products
and participating in the cycle of inhumane treatment of other sentient beings.
My former brother-in-law used to rationalize by saying, "they're bred for that"!
Yes - they ARE bred for that...... but that doesn't make it right. We used to
condone slavery, and women were not allowed to vote... until enough people
decided it's not right, also.


TOFUTONI's Photo TOFUTONI Posts: 29
3/31/12 10:35 P

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Contrary to the belief of some the fact is if you feel you are 100% vegan then you don't wear or use leather in the form of shoes, belts, pocketbooks, coats and for Pete's sake you don't buy cars with leather seats.

You can't justify the use of leather saying that it is a buy product of the meat industry. Straight from the Vegan Society, "The primary sources of skin for the leather industry are the 3.44 billion cows, sheep and goats who are farmed across the globe each year. Rather than being a by-product of the meat industry, their skins hold the status of a commodity in their own right, being worth up to 15% of the total market value of each individual animal."
www.vegansociety.com/resources/anima
ls
/leather.aspx


You are consciously making a decision to exploit an animal by buying leather car seats or leather couches. Leather seats are considered a luxury and you pay the big bucks for them. Same thing when you buy a fur coat. Ponies, zebras, dolphins, turtles, alligators, crocodile, toads, ostriches, kangaroos, lizards, snakes, salmon, seals... the list goes on. It seems that whatever the creature, if it has got a skin there is a human somewhere that wants to wear it or sit on it.

You may be eating as a vegan does but you are really just a vegetarian. The definition of a vegetarian is
"Vegetarianism encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

The definition of vegan is as follows
"Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products. Ethical vegans reject the commodity status of animals and the use of animal products for any purpose, while dietary vegans or strict vegetarians eliminate them from their diet only.[1] Another form, environmental veganism, rejects the use of animal products on the premise that the industrial practice is environmentally damaging and unsustainable."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

Vegans avoid the use of all products tested on animals, as well as animal-derived non-food products, such as leather, fur and wool.




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