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2/10/16 8:40 A

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Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?
~Sam Harris


In this age of information;
IGNORANCE IS A CHOICE!!


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2/10/16 8:39 A

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Q: Prove God doesn’t exist.
A: That’s a tough one. Show me how it’s done by proving Zeus and Apollo don’t exist, and I’ll use your method.
~Pat Condell

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2/9/16 8:18 A

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They forget that it (the bible) imprisons the brain and corrupts the heart. They forget that it is the enemy of intellectual freedom
~RGI

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2/9/16 8:17 A

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“Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains.”

Robert G. Ingersoll

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2/9/16 8:16 A

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I do not war against men. I do not war against persons. I war against certain doctrines that I believe to be wrong.
~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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2/8/16 9:18 A

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The new covenant is proof that religion is man made since an infallible god should have gotten it right to begin with. The rationalization that people broke the old covenant which was essentially impossible to follow regardless is an excuse an omniscient entity should not be excused by. The original covenant was doomed to fail, literally making followers of it damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
~William D Cymbalist

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2/8/16 9:15 A

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'Treat beliefs not as sacred possessions to be guarded but rather as testable hypotheses to be discarded when the evidence mounts against them.'
~Philip Tetlock

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2/6/16 8:08 A

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“One of the things that is a classic trope of the religious bigot, is while they’re denying people their rights, they claim that their rights are being denied. While they are persecuting people, they claim to be persecuted. While they are behaving colossally offensively, they claim to be the offended party. It's upside down world."
~Salman Rushdie

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2/6/16 8:06 A

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“You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch.”
~ astronaut - Edgar D. Mitchell

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2/5/16 8:58 A

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"Selfishness is not living your life as you wish to live it. Selfishness is wanting others to live their lives as you wish them to."
- Oscar Wilde

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2/5/16 8:56 A

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“All gods who receive homage are cruel. All gods dispense suffering without reason. Otherwise they would not be worshipped. Through indiscriminate suffering men know fear and fear is the most divine emotion. It is the stones for altars and the beginning of wisdom. Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers. Real gods require blood.”
~Zora Neale Hurston

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2/5/16 8:50 A

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“there are no fruitful speculations outside of reality.”
~ Cheikh Anta Diop

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2/4/16 9:02 A

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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
~ Mark Twain

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2/4/16 9:01 A

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"It is terrifying how much of this deeply unkind, utterly pointless, in fact, mind-bogglingly COUNTERPRODUCTIVE kind of behaviour was meted out to children over the centuries by half-witted, power-crazed zombies like this heinous old bat—a large proportion of such psychopaths allegedly acting in the name of an all-loving God."
~ John Cleese

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2/4/16 9:01 A

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"Armageddon is not around the corner. This is only what the people of violence want us to believe. The complexity and diversity of the world is the hope for the future."
~ Michael Palin

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2/3/16 6:51 A

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"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o, and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
- Penn Jillette

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2/3/16 6:50 A

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Occam's Barber: You are completely entitled to opinions that are not supported by evidence. But the moment you spread that opinion as fact, you are a liar. And if you spread it as fact knowing that it is not supported by evidence, you are both a liar and a fraud.

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2/2/16 10:24 A

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"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself." - Richard Francis Burton

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2/2/16 9:54 A

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Jobs are like going to church: it's nice once or twice a year to sing along and eat something and all that, but unless you really believe there's something holy going on, it gets to be a drag going in every single week.

~Thomas Michael Disch

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1/31/16 3:37 P

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“I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs.”
~Sam Harris

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1/31/16 3:36 P

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“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.”
~ Sam Harris

Edited by: 6BALLMAN at: 1/31/2016 (15:36)
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1/31/16 3:11 P

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Science adjusts its views based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

- Tim Minchin

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1/30/16 7:49 A

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"It's been said that the difference between god and doctors is that god doesn't believe he's a doctor. Another difference occurs to me: I have actually seen, heard, and felt the touch of doctors. The touching part wasn't that great."
-- Anonymous

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1/30/16 7:47 A

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Prayer is an act of doubt, not faith. If you really thought god was watching over everything and you genuinely trusted his "plan", you wouldn't be praying in the first place.
~GodSwill Ministries

Edited by: 6BALLMAN at: 1/30/2016 (07:50)
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1/29/16 10:47 A

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"If God exists, I hope he has a good excuse" - Woody Allen

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1/29/16 10:46 A

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"Jesus' last words on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" hardly seem like the words of a man who planned it that way. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure there is something wrong here."
- Donald Morgan

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1/28/16 10:55 A

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ATHEISM:
The "immoral" belief that:
-slavery
-genocide
-human sacrifice
-rape
-misogyny
-child abuse
-indoctrination
-bullying
-infanticide
-genital mutilation
-animal sacrifice
-homophobia
-sophophobia
-forced marriage
-discrimination
and
-sexism

are wrong


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1/28/16 10:54 A

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"It appears to me, whether rightly or wrongly, that direct arguments against Christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science."
~ Charles Darwin

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1/26/16 7:35 A

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So I was told yesterday that the east coast snow storm Jonas was caused by Roe vs. Wade... So for some odd reason god waited 43 years to show his butthurt in the form of a mildly inconvenient snowstorm.
~ Pastastopheles

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1/26/16 7:32 A

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"The argument from intimidation is a confession of intellectual impotence." - Ayn Rand

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1/24/16 7:31 A

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"Once you realize you are not a sheep, you will understand you do not need a shepherd."
~Irena

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1/24/16 7:20 A

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“If the people were a little more ignorant, astrology would flourish - if a little more enlightened, religion would perish.” -- Robert Green Ingersoll

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1/22/16 10:40 A

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Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
~a fictional man who hung with 12 other men
creepy

Edited by: 6BALLMAN at: 1/24/2016 (07:23)
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1/22/16 5:29 A

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Religion is like football. Everyone wants to believe their home team is special, but the fact is they only think so because they were born there.
~Morgan Matthew

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1/20/16 1:41 P

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“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance – logic can be happily tossed out the window.”

~Stephen King

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1/20/16 12:40 P

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"Inhumanity is part of religion as much as suffering is a part of stories. The Bible is crafted in cruelty."
- Ralph Metusi

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1/19/16 7:27 A

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"Recently, someone insulted and offended me, and in considering how to respond, I thought 'What would God do?'
So I drowned them."
~Craig Mitchell

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1/19/16 7:25 A

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"What would you call someone who says he loves you, then demands that you serve him, says he'll hurt you if he sees you with somebody else, and he'll really hurt you if you try to leave? ... Abuser? Perp? How about god?"
--4th Admin

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1/19/16 7:24 A

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“I endorse it. I think it was correct. Contrary to what many have said, it sought to outlaw neither prayer nor belief in God. In a pluralistic society such as ours, who is to determine what prayer shall be spoken, and by whom? Legally, constitutionally or otherwise, the state certainly has no such right. I am strongly opposed to the efforts that have been made to nullify the decision. They have been motivated, I think, by little more than the wish to embarrass the Supreme Court..."
~Dr Martin Luther King

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1/18/16 7:33 A

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"I have never needed a god to know that a little kindness is its own reward in knowing that I'm adding a little more happiness or comfort to the world. I never needed a god to know that my brain is best used for honest truth-seeking and understanding, my hands are for holding, my arms are for hugging, my feelings are for expressing love, my ears are for listening, my eyes are for beauty and my voice is for letting the world know that the most honest way to be good and do good is with no expectations of reward in an invisible heaven nor threat of a make-believe eternal lake of fire born of ancient imaginations."
~Chris Aable

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1/17/16 7:17 A

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Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle.
~Sam Harris


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1/17/16 7:15 A

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Unhappy, let alone angry, religious people provide more persuasive arguments for atheism and secularism than do all the arguments of atheists.
~Dennis Prager


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1/16/16 7:11 A

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“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
~Douglas Adams

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1/16/16 7:10 A

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“The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.”
― Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Infidel

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1/15/16 8:55 A

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The 10 Commandments of Logic

1. Thou shall not attack the person’s character, but the argument. (Ad hominem)

2. Thou shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make them easier to attack. (Straw man fallacy)

3. Thou shall not use small numbers to represent the whole. (Hasty generalization)

4. Thou shall not argue thy position by assuming one of its premises is true. (Begging the question)

5. Thou shall not claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause. (Post Hoc/False cause)

6. Thou shall not reduce the argument down to two possibilities. (False dichotomy)

7. Thou shall not argue that because of our ignorance, claim must be true or false. (Ad ignorantum)

8. Thou shall not lay the burden of proof onto him that is questioning the claim. (Burden of proof reversal)

9. Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when it has no logical connection. (Non sequitur)

10. Thou shall not claim that because a premise is popular, therefore it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy)

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1/14/16 11:32 A

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Concentration of power in a political machine is bad; and an Established Church is only a political machine; it was invented for that; it is nursed, cradled, preserved for that; it is an enemy to human liberty, and does no good which it could not better do in a split-up and scattered condition.
-- Mark Twain

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1/14/16 11:26 A

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The gods offer no rewards for intellect. There was never one yet that showed any interest in it.
-- Mark Twain

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1/13/16 8:11 A

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“The man who does not do his own thinking is a slave, and is a traitor to himself and to his fellowmen.”
~ Robert G. Ingersoll

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1/13/16 8:09 A

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“This is my doctrine: Give every other human being every right you claim for yourself.”
~Robert G. Ingersoll

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1/13/16 7:58 A

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"Recently, someone insulted and offended me, and in considering how to respond, I thought 'What would God do?'
So I drowned them."
~Craig Mitchell

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1/12/16 9:36 A

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You are not entitled to your opinion.
You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion.
No one is entitled to be ignorant.
~Harlan Ellison

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1/12/16 9:32 A

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“Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle is one of the most misunderstood parts of quantum theory, a doorway through which all sorts of charlatans and purveyors of tripe8 can force their philosophical musings.”
~ Brian Cox

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1/12/16 9:27 A

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“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”
~ Brian Cox

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1/11/16 6:41 A

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Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [and now we do understand] [...]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem.
~~Neil deGrasse Tyson

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1/11/16 6:38 A

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People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah's ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it's about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers.
~Neil deGrasse Tyson

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1/10/16 4:37 P

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At this time of year it's easy to forget the true meaning of Christianity - lies, corruption, and abuse.
- Banksy

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1/10/16 4:36 P

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"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it." - Terry Pratchett

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1/10/16 4:36 P

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"I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent."
- Arthur C. Clarke

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1/9/16 8:52 A

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In a little while religion will take its place with astrology, with the black art, and its ministers will take rank with magicians and sleight-of-hand performers.
~ RGI

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1/9/16 8:38 A

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The more false we destroy the more room there will be for the true.
~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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1/8/16 1:33 P

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"Please send your thoughts and prayers to the intrepid heroes who are occupying the Oregon bird sanctuary without sufficient food or warm clothing. It's the least we can do; the very least..."
--4th Admin.

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1/8/16 1:31 P

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"When you kill a god, do you have to use an imaginary weapon?"
-- Anonymous.

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1/7/16 9:22 P

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I sympathize afresh with the mighty Voltaire, who, when badgered on his deathbed and urged to renounce the devil, murmured that this was no time to be making enemies.”
~ Christopher Hitchens

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1/6/16 9:03 A

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“Take the risk of thinking for yourself,much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.”
~ Christopher Hitchens

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1/6/16 9:03 A

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“Those who are serious in ridiculous matters will be ridiculous in serious matters.”
~ Cato the Elder

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1/5/16 10:08 A

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Today we’ll be talking about one of the ballsiest of apologetics, presuppositionalism.

Gotcha. So tell me, how does presuppositionalism purport to prove the existence of the divine.

By presupposing that they already have.

You’ve gotta be kidding me.

I wish I was, but it’s really come to that. The argument goes like this: The bible is the inerrant word of god and Christ is lord.

And?

And what? That’s the whole thing.

Yeah, but that’s a conclusion, but it’s not an argument.

That’s why they call it “Presuppositionalism”. You’re presupposing your conclusion to be true. God exists and he’s the god we think exists and that’s all there is to it. That’s premise A, premise B and the conclusion all in the same tortilla.

But that’s not how argument works… Hell, that’s not even how thought works.

That’s how a burrito works.

That’s ridiculous nonsense.

Ridiculous? Yes. Nonsense? Yes. But that’s the beauty of the argument. It’s too stupid to be wrong.

But it’s not. I mean it is stupid, but it’s also wrong. It’s utter horse[malarkey]. It’s an upside down pyramid. Hell, it’s named after an improper epistemological device.

Exactly. And you can’t fault presuppositionalism for being presuppositional. It’s in the name. It has to be.

But I don’t understand how admitting that your argument is fatally flawed up front bolsters it.

Maybe it would help if you see it in action. I’ll start with the assertion that the bible is the inerrant word of god. Go.

Okay… the bible can’t be the inerrant word of god because it’s contradictory.

But your ability to recognize contradiction is derived from god, so by admitting that it’s contradictory, you’re admitting that god exists and, by extension, that the Bible is the inerrant word of god.

But I’m not admitting that in any way. I’m doing the exact opposite; I’m demonstrating that it’s untrue. And all you’re doing is putting the cart before the horse.

But we know that horses and carts are created by god, so by even using that metaphor, you’re admitting that god, who also invented metaphors, exists.

That’s not an argument, it’s an assertion. What you’re doing doesn’t even count as debate.

Well, if that’s true, and you used words to form those sentences and god created both words and sentences…

Okay, I think I see where we’re going here, but I don’t see how it adds up to a defense. It’s like the argument sketch from Flying Circus.

No it’s not.

Yes it is. The point of an apologetic is supposed to be to offer a logical reason to assume that a god exists, not just deflect every question by pretending that your conclusion and your premises are interchangeable.

Aha, but that’s the beauty of presuppositionalism. It’s not designed to prove anything; it’s designed to make you shut up without making me recognize any of the logical flaws in my theology.

So it’s the intellectual equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and threatening to hold your breath until you turn blue.

Well, I don’t know that it’s any more intellectual than that, per se, but it’s far more effective on Twitter and Facebook than the “La-La-La” defense.

But, by employing an apologetic that’s named after a logical fallacy, aren’t you kind of admitting up front that you’re full of [manure]?

Yes, but only to the person you’re debating… and they already know. Presuppositionalism is less of a ‘convince you I’m right’ kind of an argument and more of a ‘[intercourse] off and die’ kind of an argument.

But you can’t just say “I’m right” and pretend that you’ve won a debate.

On the contrary, as presuppositionalism teaches us, you can say any damn thing you want and then pretend any damn thing you want… in any order.

But that doesn’t make it a valid apologetic.

Valid or not, it’s an effective apologetic. In fact, the success of presuppositionalism in making atheists walk away with their hands in the air muttering profanities under their breath is unrivaled.

Yeah, but that shouldn’t be the point of an argument. Shouldn’t you be trying to win the argument rather than just evade it?

Well, sure, but only the side that’s correct can actually win the argument.

Okay, so if their goal isn’t to best us in a logical competition, how should atheists deal with presuppositionalism?

By invoking presuppositionalism, the theist is opening the door to logical-fallacy based arguments. To level the playing field, the atheist might want to start invoking some fallacy-based arguments of their own. For example, they could try “False-Dichotomism”.

Which is?

For example, “Well, if the bible’s the inerrant word of god, then why isn’t okay to rape your dog?” Or perhaps they could try “ad-hominism”.

And I assume that’s where you just tell them to go [intercourse] their mothers.

Precisely. You can even get creative and offer fallacy combos like “Slippery-Slopism” combined with “Non-Sequiturism” in the form of “Well if the bible’s the inerrant word of god, It won’t be long before there’s nobody left to paint all those turkeys?”… or “Reductio ad Absurdumism” combined with “Straw-Manism” in the form of “Well if the bible’s the inerrant mid-coital exclamations of god, then you must also gargle with eskimo sperm.”

Okay, well… I still think there has to be a better way to convince a presuppositionalist that their logic is flawed.

They already know their logic is flawed. Again, it’s right there in the name of the argument. The precepts of presuppositionalism actually state that there is no mutual frame of reference that a presuppositionalist and an atheist can share. That makes it impossible to defeat them in a way that they recognize. So once that is established, the only real question that matters is how angry you want to make this asshole before he walks away.
~Heath Enwright and Noah Lugeons

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1/5/16 8:09 A

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“If you want to really get rich, start your own religion.”

L. Ron. Hubbard - founder of Scientology

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1/3/16 9:10 P

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"Only in the U.S where you can readily find in any mountain range the KT Boundary layer boldly screaming out sixty six million years, will you also readily find at least sixty six million buffoons boastfully claiming the earth is no more than sixty six hundred years old."--- Ignots Pistachio

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1/2/16 7:43 A

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At the dawn of modern science in Europe - back in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries - religious worldviews prevailed without serious competition. In such an environment, it should have been expected that honest and rigorous investigation of the natural world would confirm claims that were already found in the holy scriptures and church traditions. If the true religion’s founders had genuinely received knowledge from superior beings such as God or angels, the true religion should have been, in a sense, ahead of science.

There might, accordingly, have been a process through history by which claims about the world made by the true religion (presumably some variety of Christianity) were successively confirmed. The process might, for example, have shown that our planet is only six thousand years old (give or take a little), as implied by the biblical genealogies. It might have identified a global extinction event - just a few thousand years ago - resulting from a worldwide cataclysmic flood. Science could, of course, have added many new details over time, but not anything inconsistent with pre-existing knowledge from religious sources.

Unfortunately for the credibility of religious doctrine, nothing like this turned out to be the case. Instead, as more and more evidence was obtained about the world’s actual structures and causal mechanisms, earlier explanations of the appearances were superseded. As science advances historically, it increasingly reveals religion as premature in its attempts at understanding the world around us.

As a consequence, religion’s claims to intellectual authority have become less and less rationally believable. Science has done much to disenchant the world - once seen as full of spiritual beings and powers - and to expose the pretensions of priests, prophets, religious traditions, and holy books. It has provided an alternative, if incomplete and provisional, image of the world, and has rendered much of religion anomalous or irrelevant.
~Russell Blackford

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1/1/16 8:04 A

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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
~Aldous Huxley

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1/1/16 7:30 A

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"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers"
- Robert G. Ingersoll

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1/1/16 7:30 A

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"I believe in the separation of church and planet." - Eric Idle

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12/31/15 6:24 P

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In my mind the only beneficial purpose that religious people provide to society is a hyper-visible canary in the cultural coal mine. Look, it's easy to look at preachers and say, "Well as long as he's allowed to say THAT crazy [stuff], anything I wanna say is probably gonna be alright."
~Noah Lugeons


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12/30/15 11:29 A

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“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

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12/30/15 11:28 A

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"The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail" - Gustaf Lindborg

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12/29/15 8:35 A

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“...believing in myths is comforting in the moment; in the same way it’s comforting to pretend you can fly when you’re falling.”
~Noah Lugeons

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12/29/15 8:33 A

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“...anything that forces us to stop using our brains is a bad thing but especially when the thing that’s asking us not to use our brains is trying to tell us right from wrong.”
~ Noah Lugeons

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12/29/15 7:50 A

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"Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie, Which we ascribe to heaven." - William Shakespeare

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