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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (132,487)
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7/18/13 5:42 P

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the lady mary emoticon emoticon

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7/18/13 9:11 A

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loves you kris no matter what!!
the lady mary

TODAY IS LIFE THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL

there is no cause when there is no effect km

i can do that, but not on a tuesday
for that is my day of thrust in the opposite direction -
off the starboard bow
over the hurdles,
and down the shute.

last is just the slowest winner. c.hunter boyd

people often say that motivation doesn't last. well neither does bathing - that's why we recommend it daily. zig ziglar

if i stitch fast enough do


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7/18/13 3:19 A

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Mine wasn't buried - it was there for everyone to see all the time :-(

Kris

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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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7/17/13 5:27 P

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At the time I didn't need any work. What was buried wasn't ready to come up yet, and I was too busy buying a house and moving to go poking it.

That's the thing about PTSD. What's buried doesn't come up when there's another external stimulus around, and trying to force it up only backfires.

TREATL's Photo TREATL Posts: 6,045
7/16/13 8:23 P

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I, too, was told by one therapist that I was very "sane." That is exactly the time I found myself a new therapist--precisely because my former therapist essentially announced to me that he had no further work to do with me--especially when I was quite aware that I had a lot more psychic work to do.

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7/16/13 7:41 P

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I, too, suffered PTSD and the CBT was wonderful for that, for me. Also, the thing is, a LOT of people can suffer from SAD, Depression, PTSD and STILL be very sane, (I count myself as one of those emoticon ) so the much respected counselor was probably quite correct in telling you that, but it doesn't address the other issues.

Kris

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RIGEIN24's Photo RIGEIN24 SparkPoints: (11,971)
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7/16/13 5:13 P

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Yeah, that's just why I think a professional can help more since they have a wider base of knowledge and clients. That means more experience to draw from in helping you figure out how to fix what's bothering you, or even help describe what it is exactly. That's why I suggested doing as much research as you can, in a wide spread, not just localized, because you never know where you might find answers.

So was there a particular counselor you trusted even if they're far away now you could contact by letter or phone just for some additional advice or guidance?

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." Alexis Carrel

"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave." James A. LaFond-Lewis

"All success stories have 1 thing in common-they decided they were going to do something, and then they did, no matter what got in their way." Staci Ardison


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MILLERISHEALTHY's Photo MILLERISHEALTHY Posts: 6,007
7/16/13 4:57 P

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the lady mary, you'll never know what an incredible inspiration you are to me and to countless others. God bless you today and every day!

Miller emoticon

"The present is what slips by us while we’re pondering the past and worrying about the future. - Ziggy

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"Comparison is the thief of joy."
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7/16/13 4:48 P

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CRABBYLIONESS, my heart goes out to you. I wish I knew how to help. All I can offer are virtual hugs and a prayer that you will find the right kind of help and that everything will work out for the best. I'm so sorry for what you've suffered through.

Miller emoticon emoticon emoticon

"The present is what slips by us while we’re pondering the past and worrying about the future. - Ziggy

"The groundwork of all happiness is health."
Leigh Hunt

"Comparison is the thief of joy."
Theodore Roosevelt


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7/16/13 4:29 P

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Yes, IN GENERAL, per se, I don't have a problem with depression and exercise. I've exercised on a regular basis for 13 years without depression throwing up much of a fuss. However, in this SPECIFIC instance I reached some sort of plateau or something and something different happened. I'm trying to find information on what that "something different" was and what I need to do next.

As I said in my first post I'm an abuse survivor. I've had chronic depression since I was 3 3/4, SADS and PTSD since grade school. The day I turned 18 and legally no longer needed my parents' permission I walked to the nearest counseling center. That was almost 28 years ago.

I had therapy, good and bad, intensively for about 15 years and as needed since then. I've managed on my own for about 10 years. I had a mental checkup 3 years ago and the well-respected counselor told me I was the sanest person to sit in his chair in years.

I had this SPECIFIC problem show up at the start of summer. I've never seen it before in all my years of dealing with my mental health. BECAUSE I've never seen it before I'm still grappling with how to describe it. I'm figuring out how to describe it as I'm talking to you. If I knew how to describe it well I'd have a more concise definition for it, and then I'd have a better idea where to go for help.

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7/16/13 3:36 P

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I think some things need to be cleared up.

Direct quotes: "I thought I'd ask people who might actually know something about a highly specialized intersection of depression and exercise. What do you do when exercise triggers depression? Makes me want to stay in bed all day, cry, and eat chocolate. I have no energy whatsoever."

All this implied little or no desire to exercise. Your response is “it's not stopping [you], per se”.

You mention suffering from PTSD in your original post, but the entire thread up until now has been focused on the word depression (JANICEJEM mentioned PTSD, but her post went largely ignored). Certainly PTSD and depression can coincide and I'm not disputing that, but if this post had been solely about PTSD in the first place, as you now claim it is, then it would’ve been handled differently.

There have been no accusations that you don't know what you're talking about. All that's been said is: "I certainly can't say it's impossible, but I doubt that exercise is bringing up painful memories. If anything, I'd say it's coincidental and unrelated."

I can understand those words hurt you, but I believe she was only trying to figure out if something else could be causing it. It's only miscommunication, not an accusation. Everyone (SYLPHINPROGRESS included) is just trying to help, and delve into the root of the problem.

“This isn't the first time I've fallen off a steer at the mental health rodeo.” Meaning what, exactly? Have you sought professional help before? What kind of therapies have you tried, if any? Would they not work in this situation?

Anyway, I’m gonna go ahead and echo SLIMMERKIWI’s advice. Best of luck.

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." Alexis Carrel

"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave." James A. LaFond-Lewis

"All success stories have 1 thing in common-they decided they were going to do something, and then they did, no matter what got in their way." Staci Ardison


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TREATL's Photo TREATL Posts: 6,045
7/16/13 3:17 P

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Welcome to our team. emoticon

I have suffered from PTSD, in addition to bipolar disorder. One of the most effective treatments for my PTSD was a therapy called "eye movement desensitization and reprocessing" (EMDR). Within two therapy sessions, I no longer suffered from my PTSD symptoms. I felt that a great burden had been lifted from my life. To follow up on my progress from EMDR therapy. I visited a therapist every 2 weeks for cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), a psychiatrist monthly for medication re-assessment, and a CBT therapy group every week. These factors together helped me toward mental/spiritual healing.

Each individual's road to healing is different--as it should be. I hope my story has given you ideas you may use.

Blessed Be emoticon

Lynne


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"When I say it’s you I like, I’m talking about that part of you that knows that life is far more than anything you can ever see or hear or touch. That deep part of you that allows you to stand for those things without which humankind cannot survive. Love that conquers hate, peace that rises triumphant over war, and justice that proves more powerful than greed.” Mr. Rogers


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WOWEETOO's Photo WOWEETOO SparkPoints: (170,976)
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7/16/13 1:25 P

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BREATHE!!!!


TODAY IS LIFE THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL

there is no cause when there is no effect km

i can do that, but not on a tuesday
for that is my day of thrust in the opposite direction -
off the starboard bow
over the hurdles,
and down the shute.

last is just the slowest winner. c.hunter boyd

people often say that motivation doesn't last. well neither does bathing - that's why we recommend it daily. zig ziglar

if i stitch fast enough do


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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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7/16/13 11:02 A

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I realized last night what the problem was. I said PTSD, you guys didn't have a clue what I meant. No wonder we couldn't communicate. Sorry, my bad. I should have explained it.

PTSD is a learned response to a life-threatening situation. You are in danger. You could die. You feel like screaming. If you scream, you WILL DIE. So you swallow your scream. You bury your fear. You do what you have to do to make it out of there alive.

And once that response has saved your life, it never goes away. From then on you are always preconditioned to act in that way.

But what happens to that scream you swallowed? What happens to that fear you buried? It's still down there rolling around in your gut. It's going to come out eventually, the question is when.

The answer to that question is tied to your adrenaline levels. You get in danger, your adrenaline levels go up, your PTSD gets triggered, you are Stone Cold Ice Woman able to deal with whatever Hell throws at you.

You get out of danger, you calm down, your adrenaline levels go down -- and all that buried fear comes back to the surface. And it's gotten worse for being buried.

So you don't let yourself calm down. You bury yourself under work or alcohol or drugs or promiscuity or extreme sports or ANYTHING that will keep your adrenaline up. Because if you bury THAT much THAT deep when it does come up you're going to be dealing with a full-blown Zombie Apocalypse inside your head.

(Really. The first Zombie Apocalypse was caused by a middle-aged goddess having a nervous breakdown. Google "The Descent of Inanna".)

The same thing happens to soldiers in combat situations, to women in abusive relationships, and to children in abusive families. The difference is that the kids never learn any other way to live.

So when I talk about exercise making me healthier and calming me down AND THAT calmness and happiness leading directly to traumatic breakthroughs I do know what I'm talking about. I just don't know what to do next.

MAJONES1225's Photo MAJONES1225 Posts: 5,754
7/16/13 12:34 A

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emoticon

"Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still."


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7/15/13 10:27 P

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Rigein, I'll get back to you on that tomorrow. The night's got too busy for me to answer it now.

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7/15/13 10:23 P

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Slimmerkiwi, I will look into distance therapy, but it helps to know some keywords going in.

It's not a standard trigger-type situation. I've been exercising off and on for 13 years, if I was gonna hit a trigger of this sort I woulda done it before now. Plus I know where my most of my triggers are and what they feel like. This is different.

My username. I was born a Leo on the cusp of Cancer. While I don't necessarily believe in astrology, it's true that the older I get the more I feel like a Crabby Lioness. emoticon

SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (132,487)
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7/15/13 9:46 P

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CRABBYLIONESS (interesting username???)

You may live in the middle of nowhere, but sometimes, some isolated places have qualified help from a site close by, with the Therapist/Psychiatrist/etc. a distance away, but connected via quality webcam-type device. Perhaps you could check that out, because you really do sound like you need qualified help to deal with the past. I suspect you would be a contender for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It sounds like the exercise triggers the thoughts, and the CBT can change that. IF you don't have access to something like that, are you able to travel to where there IS help, and perhaps stay overnight? Maybe on a monthly basis?

Apart from that, I am sorry that I can't be much help, but I really DO feel for you!

Take care,
Kris xxxx

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LOFLLAMA's Photo LOFLLAMA Posts: 7,273
7/15/13 9:02 P

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Oh, okay.

Lisa

Your perception of your reality IS your reality.

You have the right to your own opinion. You do not, however, have the right to your own facts.

Be The Change You Want To See In The World~ Gandhi

You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren’t paying attention to. ~ Robin Williams

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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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7/15/13 8:59 P

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Lofllama, I recently moved to a town of 300 out in the middle of nowhere. Finding a specialist is a bit tricky under the circumstances. It helps to know enough going in to be able tell whether they really know what they're talking about or whether they're faking it. And some of them will try to fake it.

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7/15/13 8:39 P

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"You know that problem you have with people in such-and-such circumstance? Well, this is WHY you have that problem." I can't turn my back on it and walk away if I'm ever to reach the point where I don't have that problem any longer; and I so very, very, badly want to reach that point.

What is that problem exactly? If you don't want to put it in public maybe you could just send it to me in sparkmail? Have you talked to anyone about it, not just in a vague sense? If you haven't maybe you need to be more direct about it with somebody. Doesn't have to be me if you'd rather not. But still, it seems like this is the root of what's bothering you.

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." Alexis Carrel

"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave." James A. LaFond-Lewis

"All success stories have 1 thing in common-they decided they were going to do something, and then they did, no matter what got in their way." Staci Ardison


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7/15/13 8:18 P

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.

Edited by: LOFLLAMA at: 7/15/2013 (20:22)
Lisa

Your perception of your reality IS your reality.

You have the right to your own opinion. You do not, however, have the right to your own facts.

Be The Change You Want To See In The World~ Gandhi

You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren’t paying attention to. ~ Robin Williams

Celebrate Bipolar with me on my team Bipolar Mania!
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7/15/13 8:16 P

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Rigein, research is why I'm hear. I thought I'd ask people who might actually know something about a highly specialized intersection of depression and exercise first. This isn't the first time I've fallen off a steer at the mental health rodeo.

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7/15/13 8:08 P

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Woweetoo, thank you so much for finding the courage to post that message. I know a little about how hard that is, but very little compared to what you have been through.

That said, I'm not dealing with straight-up flashbacks, but insights about the past I need to understand things happening in the present. One of them is my brain saying to me, "You know that problem you have with people in such-and-such circumstance? Well, this is WHY you have that problem." As painful as it is (and it hurts like Hell) I can't turn my back on it and walk away if I'm ever to reach the point where I don't have that problem any longer; and I so very, very, badly want to reach that point.

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7/15/13 7:46 P

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You're second note makes it clearer.

The enormity of your early experiences, especially details you'd repressed, is far greater than you need take on alone. Your wanting to retreat into bed and food and your posing the question may be telling you that help is in order.

LAURIE, NYC
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There is substance in glibness and vice versa:
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
-- Winston Churchill, master of both?


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7/15/13 7:40 P

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How to deal with it just depends on the person, though. So I would suggest reading self-help books, or doing as much research as you can into therapies because what works for others might not work for you. Also, if you're not ready to change then nothing will work. And believe me, I know how much it sucks to hear that, I used to think "of course I want to change do I look like I'm happy like this?" But you'd be surprised the amount of mental acrobatics your brain can do to keep itself safe and cozy, even lying to yourself. It took me over twenty years to come to terms with my own issues, and it wasn't overnight. It takes hard work and dedication and tears the same way any healthy lifestyle does.

Just let the episode play out. That chunk of pure kid-terror...relive it if you have to. You could even talk to your inner child and guide "it" or talk it through the episode from a different set of eyes. Just an idea. Same with the insights...look at them through new eyes. They're just chapters of a book about your past.

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." Alexis Carrel

"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave." James A. LaFond-Lewis

"All success stories have 1 thing in common-they decided they were going to do something, and then they did, no matter what got in their way." Staci Ardison


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7/15/13 7:09 P

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past is past..let it go..easy you ask?? no harder than all get out..i should know..i was a child with no parents and passed around among the family endlessly i was beat daily with the buckle end of a leather belt..i was starved i was paraded in church by loving parents as a testment to their good works..i was a slave to adult needs..i was sold several times for services for pedofiles and was only 12..no one ever wanted me and i never could figure out a way to be loved by at least one person every once in a while it rears it's ugly head again but past is past you have to not go back there DON'T GO BACK ONLY FORWARD and only you can do that for yourself..and you have to stiffen up and know there are those of us out there all over in the same boat..when it creeps up turn your baCK ON IT AND SAY OUT LOUD BE GONE FROM MY LIFE AND CHANGE DIRECTIONS IMMEDIATELY TO THE PRESENT AND WHAT YOU CAN DO..most of thime it works instantly once you have it down..past is past and keep it therethe lady mary been there and practice it constantly


TODAY IS LIFE THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL

there is no cause when there is no effect km

i can do that, but not on a tuesday
for that is my day of thrust in the opposite direction -
off the starboard bow
over the hurdles,
and down the shute.

last is just the slowest winner. c.hunter boyd

people often say that motivation doesn't last. well neither does bathing - that's why we recommend it daily. zig ziglar

if i stitch fast enough do


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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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7/15/13 6:55 P

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It's not like it's trying to STOP me per se. It's like, "Okay, if your'e strong enough and mature enough to handle it now, here's a repressed chunk of pure kid-terror or an insight into past relationships for you to deal with. Better out than in." And while I certainly couldn't have dealt with it earlier I'm still not sure how to deal with it now."

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7/15/13 6:38 P

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Then you need to work on making your problems the opposite of "repressed". When it happens just take a moment to sort through your feelings..."why am I thinking about this? Am I letting it control me, stop me from what I need to be doing? Is this memory threatening to change my self-perception?" Remember it was a past event you had no control over, but you have control over the present to reflect and be in a safe space.

Without knowing what exactly happens or what you think about I can't offer much more advice than that. All I can give is my own experience. Being sexually abused made me want to hide in my own fatness or perceived ugliness, so it was a struggle to exercise sometimes when I felt more comfortable as my old self. What helped was coming to terms with "forgiving" the abuse. That doesn't mean I think it was okay, it means I was tired of harboring anger and resentment. I felt that way because I thought no one took my abuse seriously, so "giving up" my attitude of resentment was like betraying myself. But I realize now that those attitudes were poisoning my mental and physical health so I let them go.

Wish you the best. BTW, hope you aren't accusing other members of saying you're wrong. I doubt that was their intent, just misunderstanding.

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." Alexis Carrel

"The fearless are merely fearless. People who act in spite of their fear are truly brave." James A. LaFond-Lewis

"All success stories have 1 thing in common-they decided they were going to do something, and then they did, no matter what got in their way." Staci Ardison


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7/15/13 6:04 P

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Y'know, there's nothing I hate more than having people tell me my own learned experience is wrong.

People don't want to believe adoptees get abused but it happens.

People don't want to believe the gifted have problems but it happens.

People don't want to believe that taking care of your body can bring up repressed issues but it happens.

I've got books where Karen Andes and Gabrielle Roth talk about it, Andes in connection with weight training and Roth with massage therapy but they don't say that much about it. Best description I've ever found came from my husband on an unrelated topic, "That's the problem with old cars. You fix one problem, and all the others that were hiding behind it show up." Well, I fixed one problem, another that was hiding behind it showed up, and now I'd like to hear from people who've been in that position about what they did about it.

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7/15/13 5:43 P

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I certainly can't say it's impossible, but I doubt that exercise is bringing up painful memories. If anything, I'd say it's coincidental and unrelated. What the memories tell you is that they need to be worked on so you can absorb, digest and take over.

LAURIE, NYC
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There is substance in glibness and vice versa:
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
-- Winston Churchill, master of both?


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7/15/13 5:38 P

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Hi Crabbylioness,

Sometimes exercise triggers my depression, too. It's a sign that we still have to work through things, I think. How to work through them? For myself, I'm all talked out with psychiatrists so I either talk to my husband, my daughter, or God. Other people journal. Do you have a method of working through things? What has worked in the past? What do you think might work now? I wish you all the best... depression can be hell, especially with PTSD. Think of what works for you and then try it! One other thing that works for me is I say to myself, "All of the bad stuff goes out and disintegrates so it can't hurt anybody, and just the good stuff gets to stay."
Loads of Love to you!
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Janice



God is good and Loving and helpful and kind and able and supportive. Thank you, God!!!


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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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7/15/13 5:20 P

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Well yeah, most of the time that's the case. If it's just jitters or feeling blue, exercise soothes the nerves. Works that way for me most of the time too.

I'm talking about when exercise stirs up repressed bits.

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7/15/13 5:18 P

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Please go see your Dr.

Lisa

Your perception of your reality IS your reality.

You have the right to your own opinion. You do not, however, have the right to your own facts.

Be The Change You Want To See In The World~ Gandhi

You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren’t paying attention to. ~ Robin Williams

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NANCYRUBIO's Photo NANCYRUBIO Posts: 318,417
7/15/13 5:12 P

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Sorry, when I exercise my depression is better.

Depression is the impression left by fear. Be willing to fight the fear. Conquer it with love.

Nancy Rubio
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CRABBYLIONESS's Photo CRABBYLIONESS SparkPoints: (1,690)
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Hi, I'm a former abused adoptee with chronic depression, PTSD, and a weight problem. I've been exercising to improve my stamina and it's really worked -- to the point where my hindbrain's been saying, "Well if you're strong enough to deal with things now, how about this!" and shooting up horrific repressed bits of my childhood, which makes me want to stay in bed all day, cry, and eat chocolate. I have no energy whatsoever, which does nothing for my diet and exercise plan.

I've heard mention that this is a common problem, but I've never heard anyone talk about how people handle it. So what do you do?

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