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DEBBEV's Photo DEBBEV Posts: 5,236
8/12/09 11:18 P

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I know it's out there, the goodness I mean, but it's getting harder & harder to find.

Deb



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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/12/09 10:53 P

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it certainly does seem that there are more and more baddies out there. what a complicated world we live in. I DO try to concentrate on the positive energy. don't forget there is still LOTS of goodness in this world.

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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/7/09 6:16 P

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You are so right Kelly! Wickedness is on the uprise in our day. The Lord is on the throne and he knows all, but one day there will be a judgement day.
It maybe alot sooner then anyone thinks.
This day that we are living in is the most wicked times of earths history.


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DEBBEV's Photo DEBBEV Posts: 5,236
8/7/09 5:54 P

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Hideous, that's what these sickos & there insane, & inhumane acts are. I was simply appalled reading all of this. What in the name of humanity is this world coming to?

Deb


very smitten with my little "man" BooBoo



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KR2165's Photo KR2165 SparkPoints: (19,656)
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8/3/09 9:12 P

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Wow...just have to sit and digest everything I just read on this thread...

I'm apalled.

Started out debarking...

Wow...

Yeah, people are definitely sick out here in this world. Makes me think our time on this earth is short. I'm a Christian woman and I believe that this kind of stuff escalating like it is, is the beginning of the end times.

Just my belief...it all makes me mad too, but I have to believe that my God and my Jesus is out there. And some how He knows what's happening and is some how in control of all things. I find comfort in that, thanks be to God. I'm not making light of any of this, but if I don't find peace in Christ at some point, then all I do is get angrier and angrier at these creeps who are soooooo sick and demented and then I'm caused a lot of unrest and anger.

God bless each and every one of you...My friends and fellow poodle people.

Kelly

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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/3/09 4:22 P

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Wow. Have we digressed or what? Well, at any rate, it was sure good to let some steam out. The pressure in my ears just decreased.

A good day to all!

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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/3/09 3:26 P

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Gerry, You are a HOOT!
Yeah! Just let women do the choosing punishment, then maybe there would be less crime!
Rosa

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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/3/09 3:07 P

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Mary, you have the right idea! WE should be choosing the punishment. I think for my guy, I would have cut off parts, and kept him in a 5 X 5 cell with uncooked tofu, white bread, and Nyquil for nourishment. Just enough to sustain. And there should be photos of animals and all the people he hurt on the walls. And the song "King of Pain" by the Police should be played over and over and over.

Ha ha!



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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/3/09 2:58 P

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You are sooo right Mary!


ROSA

Edited by: CACTUSFLOWER* at: 8/3/2009 (15:00)
Success is a journey, not a destination.
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I LOVE MY TWO GIRLS, BELLA & KATIE!
****************
I LOVE MY POODLE GIRL, GINGER!
*************

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HAVING TWO LITTLE MALTESE GIRLS!
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MARY1313's Photo MARY1313 Posts: 5,506
8/3/09 2:56 P

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OMG I can't believe the stuff I just read on that site! Killing tied up animals? The army injecting monkeys with nerve gas? What in the live long day is wrong with people.

I just got sick to my stomach.

As for old jeffry dahmer, he was beaten to death with a broom stick. He should have been disected himself without any pain killers.

If the criminal system would allow women to determine the punishment for sickos like that America would be a little more frightened to follow in the foot steps of the ones before them.

Mary

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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/3/09 2:46 P

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Sue, I'll check the site later today...thanks!

Yeah, Dahmer. Perfect example of how sick, sick, sick these people are. My tormentor, unfortunately, had a sharp, bright mind, that was twisted. If it wasn't, he could have had a brilliant life. It's kinda sad, but I am a full believer in punishing these people. Yeah, they don't suffer if they are put to death, but on the other hand, there's no chance of them harming an animal or human again.

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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/3/09 2:40 P

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emoticon girls!! Hey, I'm with you Gerry!
Do ya'll remember how Jeffrey Dahmer started out as a boy getting dead animals and dissecting them, he even put a dogs head on a stick.
He did all kind of sick things, before he comitted his first murder!
Killing him wasn't good enough!
Just my opinion.

ROSA

Edited by: CACTUSFLOWER* at: 8/3/2009 (14:59)
Success is a journey, not a destination.
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I LOVE MY TWO GIRLS, BELLA & KATIE!
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I LOVE MY POODLE GIRL, GINGER!
*************

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HAVING TWO LITTLE MALTESE GIRLS!
**************************


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STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/3/09 2:39 P

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Don't stories like that just get your dander up! People can be so cruel.

Gerry, at the site I gave before there is an alert page which tells you what is up around the country currently.

www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/action
_a
lerts/


Bright Blessings
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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/3/09 2:13 P

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He shouldn't be hung from his unmentionables. That's waaay too kind. They should just cut them off. And not give him any painkillers. Sorry, but this really got me mad!

And yes, it is true. Bad boys start out by doing nasty things to animals at a young age. Then it elevates. They start directing their violence and hatred at people. So these idiots need much harsher punishment than a slap on the wrist. And perhaps a lobotomy too.

I've been a victim of crime from one of these sickos...thus my outrage! He is behind bars now, but it took years to get him! He got his training wheels doing stuff to animals and scratching paint on people's cars!

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MANYPOUNDSTOGO's Photo MANYPOUNDSTOGO SparkPoints: (0)
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8/3/09 1:47 P

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He should be hung by his unmentionables out for the public to see.
I hope he gets a lot of jail time.

I co-lead a PRIVATE team for adult females of child sexual abuse. If you would be interested in joining our team please sparkmail me for an invite.

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MARY1313's Photo MARY1313 Posts: 5,506
8/3/09 1:13 P

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You will not believe this article. The guy that did this was convicted, but I was not satisfied with the punishment of this piece of trash!

www.peta.org/actioncenter/actionaler
ts
-item.asp?id=1842


This happened here in my town. This dog is now owned by the vet who saved him. he goes to schools and other places as a poster pup to help prevent dog abuse and teach children how to be kind to animals.

Mary

Mary in Alabama

If I can quit smoking, I can lose weight!

"How beautiful a day can be
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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/3/09 10:01 A

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Sue,

Great article. Wonder where the other states are at! Mighty Joe has his very own Twitter account (yes, dogs DO tweet!) and he told me that he will tweet a link to this article today and hopefully create some awareness!

He has over 600 followers around the globe, so he WILL be heard!



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STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/3/09 9:19 A

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There is still a long way to go here and in other states. If you want to support the effort you can google for groups but I know the Humane Societies are generally good resources for getting info on pending legistlation and grassroot groups.

Bright Blessings
Sue

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MANYPOUNDSTOGO's Photo MANYPOUNDSTOGO SparkPoints: (0)
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8/3/09 7:46 A

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I agree Benda - they should have to go through what they make these dogs go through and feel. I bet they would STOP. It is so sad that there are such cruel people in this world and country. You would think in this day and age people would know better and act better. I am so happy it is a crime and is punishable by law now. The only thing is I pray the law follows through.

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POODLELOVER2's Photo POODLELOVER2 SparkPoints: (24,823)
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8/3/09 7:34 A

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Sue, this is much worse than I realized. The Animal Cops show that I watched didn't talk about the surgical stuff. They just bought a sick puppy from an Amish mill and then was able to shut him down I think based on the legislation passed last year. Which was truly horrid enough with the type of conditions they kept the dogs in. I had no idea that they did all those procedures without anesthesia. How awful! They should have lots of surguries without anesthesia and then be kept in a tiny cage forever just like their dogs were. I can't imagine the mentality that would do that to any living thing.

You are right, Rosa. This just makes you want to go get your babies and give them big hugs.

Thanks for educating me, Sue.

Brenda

Edited by: POODLELOVER2 at: 8/3/2009 (07:39)
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STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/3/09 7:19 A

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Here in PA it has been on the radar for a while. But it took Lisa Ling's undercover report for Oprah's show to get the outcry loud enough to be heard.

Here is a nice article from the Humane Society about the changes to our legislation here in PA.

www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/
pr
ess_releases/pa_senate_committee_comR>bats_cruel_procedures_at_puppy_mills
_0
61009.html


Although I do not condone debarking of any sort as a general practice, I will concede that there may be rare cases where it might be necessary so that a dog isn't euthanized. Sometimes very noisy dogs who are breaking noise ordinances are given no choice. BUT I still believe responsible owners can get behavioral/rehabilitative help for that prob and should try everything else first. As I heard one person say, if you don't want your pet to bark, get a cat!

Edited by: STARLASUE at: 8/3/2009 (07:32)
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MARY1313's Photo MARY1313 Posts: 5,506
8/2/09 10:39 P

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Hey there's an idea! Maybe we can call it Barkless Poodles Fight Back!

M

Mary in Alabama

If I can quit smoking, I can lose weight!

"How beautiful a day can be
When kindness touches it!" - George Elliston


♥ .* ) ..*) -::-
(. ;..♥ Sprinkling you ♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
♥ .* ) .with a little♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
southern hospitality.*) -::- ♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
(. ;..♥ and positive pixie dust♥.*) <


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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/2/09 10:38 P

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Rosa,also smitten with her Lil Poodle Girl Ginger!

Success is a journey, not a destination.
Focus on the process.


I LOVE MY TWO GIRLS, BELLA & KATIE!
****************
I LOVE MY POODLE GIRL, GINGER!
*************

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HAVING TWO LITTLE MALTESE GIRLS!
**************************


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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/2/09 10:36 P

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This whole discussion about the Amish is leaving a real bad taste in my mouth. Not feeling so good after reading it. It's like they're in another world; uh, and yes, they are. Just horrible.

I would think that there's less of this whole debarking thing going on nowadays. Shame on the crack vets that are cruel to the animals!!! I'm not endorsing this practice by any means, but I do think there's a right way and a wrong way to do this procedure. I'm guessing that Mighty Joe was done "the right way". Like I mentioned earlier, his bark became louder as he got older. And he really wasn't quiet to begin with.

I'm going to ask my breeder if she still has it done to her poodles. I don't think so. They are all pretty loud when ever I go there.

When I had asked my vet about it many years ago (back in NJ), he didn't get upset when I talked to him about it. I never asked him if he had ever debarked a dog, but I kinda doubt he had.

Maybe we can start a group to put an end to debarking?


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STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/2/09 10:10 P

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Very simply, the Amish consider dogs 'livestock'. One farmer shot 88 dogs early last year b/c the state inspector was trying to get him to take 20 of them for veterinary care. Rather than go through the expense, he put them in a mass grave after he shot them - puppies and all - and said he was out of business. Several rescue groups had offered to take the sick pups, but he went and shot them before the inspectors knew what was going to happen.

That one horrific act finally got PA's legislature to pass laws to protect these pups. It helped that Oprah shown her spotlight on the issue about 2 weeks after that. We still have the mills, but now the rescue groups, inspectors, and others have laws to go in and save them. If a farmer was to shoot a dog now, he would be breaking the law! It is about time!

It never ceases to amaze me how many creatures are tortured by humans. I am glad all of our furfriends here have loving homes.

Brenda, I too am very glad I regained my voice. Funny how much I took it for granted prior to the paralysis. I don't anymore! :-)

Sue, who is also very smitten with her Maggie.

Edited by: STARLASUE at: 8/2/2009 (22:12)
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MARY1313's Photo MARY1313 Posts: 5,506
8/2/09 6:29 P

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The Amish! I couldn't believe I read that right. How in the name of all that is Holy could they justify operating a puppy mill?

I am so glad Charm and all of our little and big Poodles have homes where people know that they are just as much their family as anyone is!

Mary, who is smitten with her Poodle Baby!

Mary in Alabama

If I can quit smoking, I can lose weight!

"How beautiful a day can be
When kindness touches it!" - George Elliston


♥ .* ) ..*) -::-
(. ;..♥ Sprinkling you ♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
♥ .* ) .with a little♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
southern hospitality.*) -::- ♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
(. ;..♥ and positive pixie dust♥.*) <


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POODLELOVER2's Photo POODLELOVER2 SparkPoints: (24,823)
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8/2/09 5:53 P

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I wasn't aware of the Amish puppy mills until they started showing Animal Cops Philadelphia (I watch all the 'Animal Cops' shows). I'm glad that they are finally making some progress in shutting them down. It is really awful what is being done to a lot of animals. And encouraging that there is more being done about it and lots of people involved in and interested in rescue.

Charm wasn't in a puppy mill situation, but she was being passed from home to home. We are her 4th home, and we got her at 2 years of age. So she was pretty fearful when we got her. We've had her 6 months now and I think she is finally starting to trust that this is going to be her permanent home. She is even starting to be a little mischievous!

Thank you all so much for caring and passionate expressions. Starlasue, I am so glad that you are involved in helping to rehabilitate puppy mill dogs and other dogs with problems. I'm also glad that your throat paralysis was temporary and that you got your voice back.

Aquajane, thank you for welcoming us to the club! We are really glad to be here. It is a really good group.

Hugs to all who have posted or might post in the future with a special hug to Mighty Joe. Keep on barking, dude!

Brenda

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FT4EVR's Photo FT4EVR Posts: 1,943
8/2/09 5:31 P

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Poor little Charm! And all the other dogs that suffer this terrible ordeal. It is awful. I get sick to my stomach thinking about the hell that some animals have to live with daily.


Laurie~Wisconsin



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STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/2/09 4:32 P

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Yes Mary, I think that place will have loud recordings of non-stop aggressive barking - enough to cause severe distress in those hearing it.

We did have a victory here not too long ago. A local vet who was doing under the table unsanitary, unethical procedures at a puppy mill had his license stripped. He also had huge fines to pay. The things he tried to justify! Burned me up. I am glad I wasn't on his jury. And if I remember there was some stipuialtion in the sentencing that if he was caught ever doing any of those procedures anywhere ever again, he would be jailed. Score one for the good guys.

Bright Blessings
Sue

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MARY1313's Photo MARY1313 Posts: 5,506
8/2/09 4:23 P

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My daughter who worked as a vet tech told me that they received requests from breeders all the time to "de-bark" their breeding dogs. She also said that they had to find someone who was working "under the radar" and paid under the table for it. I think these people must be the coldest cruelest people on earth. To mutilate a harmless being. There is a special place for them in hell.

Mary

Mary in Alabama

If I can quit smoking, I can lose weight!

"How beautiful a day can be
When kindness touches it!" - George Elliston


♥ .* ) ..*) -::-
(. ;..♥ Sprinkling you ♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
♥ .* ) .with a little♥.*)
♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
southern hospitality.*) -::- ♥.*-::-. ;..♥ -::-
(. ;..♥ and positive pixie dust♥.*) <


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MANYPOUNDSTOGO's Photo MANYPOUNDSTOGO SparkPoints: (0)
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8/2/09 4:15 P

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I pray every night for the animals being abused. There are so many out there that it brakes my heart. I am so happy to hear that these two have loving homes and are safe now.

I co-lead a PRIVATE team for adult females of child sexual abuse. If you would be interested in joining our team please sparkmail me for an invite.

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CACTUSFLOWER*'s Photo CACTUSFLOWER* SparkPoints: (20,191)
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8/2/09 2:28 P

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Oh Brenda! How awful that they did such a thing to her! I didn't know anything about such as this.
How cruel they are.
They ought to be debarked!
I learn something everyday. This really makes my blood boil.
I am glad that you have given Charm a loving home.
All I can say is that it is just cruel, cruel of them to do such a thing!
I've got to go and give Ginger and Red a hug!


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AQUAJANE's Photo AQUAJANE Posts: 1,379
8/2/09 1:45 P

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I'm glad that you and Charm are part of our little club. As for me, I'm not in favor of aesthetic surgeries for dogs. I wouldn't even have my poodle's tail cropped, though I have adopted poodles with cropped tails. It's amazing how each dog has his or her own voice.

STARLASUE's Photo STARLASUE Posts: 1,505
8/2/09 1:34 P

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Having had my own vocal chord partially paralized for 6 months five years ago, I can tell you that vocalizing and all its nuances is very important to communication. It galls me that people 'de-bark' dogs; especially dogs that are being exploited by being breeders.

I do a bit of animal communication with my Reiki and I know one dog who is very unhappy she was 'debarked'. And she is terrified of everything and is unable to relax. We are hoping time will help her learn to trust. And she was full of fleas and open wounds when rescued.

In her case, b/c she came from an Amish puppy mill, I suspect they debarked her cruelly based on my communication with her. No surgery, just a pipe into the vocal chord which is a common practice on many of these mills. I am so glad our state is finally starting the crack down on this type of inhumane behavior.

Sorry this one is a touchy spot for me. I come in contact with so may puppy mill dogs who are suffering physical or emotional probs b/c of the way they were forced to live.

I am so glad Charm and Mighty Joe have found loving forever homes. God Bless you both for taking them in.

Edited by: STARLASUE at: 8/2/2009 (13:37)
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MITEJOE's Photo MITEJOE Posts: 3,990
8/2/09 1:09 P

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Our Mighty Joe is debarked as well, but he is quite loud regardless. But you know, when I think about it, the first time we heard him bark, it was a raspy sound. Perhaps the effect of the surgery has "worn off" during the years?

We had never heard of such a thing, and immediately asked our vet about it.

And yes, Mighty Joe was debarked for the same reasons as Charm.

I think dogs can be trained to behave, and that this sort of thing probably isn't necessary. Great for putting more $$$s in the coffers of the vets.

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POODLELOVER2's Photo POODLELOVER2 SparkPoints: (24,823)
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8/2/09 1:01 P

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I thought I would share something about my little Charm. She is 'debarked'. The lady who bred her debarks all her poodles because of complaints from the neighbors.

Charm can still bark, but it kind of has a whispery sound to it. And other than that, she is very quiet. She doesn't 'talk' like other dogs do. And you miss the nuances in her bark that dogs normally have that give expression and communication. So I have to relate to her a little differently. She runs around and plays without making any noise. So I make all the noise.

It is really sad that people feel the need to do this. She didn't seem real happy about having to debark her dogs. I have heard that people sometimes have big legal battles with barking complaints and have to do it in order to keep their dogs. But my vet is even wondering where she is getting it done, because most vets won't do it. And she said that we are very lucky that she doesn't have any complications from the surgery. So I'm glad that it seems like whoever did the surgery did a good job.

Anyway, we are adore her, but are sometimes sad that her 'voice' was taken away. But she doesn't seem to know any different and is just as happy as can be.

Brenda

Edited by: POODLELOVER2 at: 8/3/2009 (23:08)
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